MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: BigDog816 on April 06, 2015, 10:33:23 PM
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This Easter in Qld the road toll is at 8, which is terrible for those who have lost their lives, their families, friends, colleagues. Now this is getting lots of coverage I the media, and while it's done under the premise of communicating the road safety message (like disguised speed cameras, hidden speed traps etc) the headlines of worst road toll in 20yrs & police pray for end to road carnage, are simply about sensationalising the news, not reporting it.
I'm wondering what others thoughts are on the topic, but I would like to see adjusted figures for a true comparison year on year, taking into account the,
volume of traffic - higher in holiday periods
increased average trip length - people typically travel longer, greater fatigue
weather - a factor in Qld over Easter
Basically allowing people to see for themselves if the road toll is as horrific as the media is reporting, or if based on all the factors statistically it's worse/better/just the same as any other weekend.
As an example this Easter there were 70 less people caught drink driving, was this because we were better behaved and the message is getting through or is it because there were 30000 less RBTs conducted (supposedly due to the wet weather - which makes no sense to me)
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An ad came on TV tonight here in Perth saying that if WA's road toll was equivalent to Vic's road toll (per capita) there would be 75 more people alive today.
Not good, the police have all but thrown their hands in the air, they can't explain it and aren't too sure how to deal with it.
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Spend a week in a B-double with me and you will understand why the fork the road toll is the way it is!!!!!!! >:(
Also, I don't hold to the so called stats of female drivers are better than male drivers, complete BS especially when P plates, phones and kids added in cars. :o
Impatience, stupidity, recklessness and speed, that's why it is the way it is! ::)
Foo
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Impatience, stupidity, recklessness and speed, that's why it is the way it is! ::)
As an ex firie, I have to agree. Poor choices more often than not contribute. The sad thing is that some other poor bugger gets belted because of one individual needing to get somewhere quicker than the rest of us.
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Spare a thought for Sth Africa, the road toll this eater is 35 and that's about normal!
The wet as well as what's discussed above , the quality of Australia drivers varies greatly And there are some who shouldn't hold licenses imo. But while the authorities continue to focus almost solely on catching speeding and drunk driving they will go under the radar.
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Does it really matter whether the figures are 'adjusted' or 'unadjusted'? Eight people have lost their lives in Qld alone, hundreds injured and many families wrecked and traumatised forever. The manner in which the media report the madness is not the problem, road users are. The police have been clear on the carnage, it was avoidable.
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I think it does matter how it is reported, yes it is tragic as I said at the start, and yes if it wasn't for the road users there would be nothing to report. However, if the message is constantly negative people look at it as though it will never get better, there will always be accidents, use the stats to show some positives, show where the improvement is, and in that they might actaully work out what is leading to that improvement.
The graphic stuff works for a little while, but it's not in the front of the persons mind when they feel as though they're being held up and must get past that slower vehicle.
Continuing to do the same thing over and over, expecting to get a different result??
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This happened this morning north of Hervey Bay, Qld, not on the highway but a well used main road. Appears the two occupants are OK and no other vehicle involved. Great that there are no injuries but I bet they are suffering. Looks like straight stretch of road. No idea how it occurred but it makes you shudder of what can happen while you are having fun. They say there is no such thing as an accident, but perhaps this was just an accident? Kevin
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv33888%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D373742%3A43633%3Bnu0mrj)
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On Saturday I had to visit Forbes NSW emergency department. While there, the ambos turned up with an old fella in a neck brace and we heard them explain that he's been pulled from a wreck by onlookers about 20km from town, the car was righted and his wife was still in there, presumably still being cut out. She had fallen asleep and rolled the car, thankfully without collecting any innocent families (ie. mine) and seemingly without causing death to themselves. They were from Melbourne.
Driving out of Forbes a few days ago, the missus and I talked about it. It is my view that she made a conscious decision to press on despite no doubt having all the warning signs - long blinks, the head nods, creeping tiredness etc. We've all been there and sometimes (myself included) we've decided to press on and take the risk. Not any more - too old and responsible now... ;D
I know this is a bit beside the point, but here is a potentially lethal situation - probably not an uncommon one at these times, IMHO knowingly created by someone old enough to know better that could easily have taken the road toll to even great heights. If they'd hit us and taken us all out, it would have been 8 more unnecessary deaths.
Part of the problem comes from cities unleashing thousands of drivers lacking experience in long distance driving onto our roads. Perhaps people just don't care about tiredness, speed, silly decisions on the road until they're either caught or worse. "I'll be right", "I'm a good driver" etc.
When I was doing a lot of motorbike touring I became painfully aware of the 'quality' of many other drivers with whom I had to share the road. As someone else has said - just considering the P platers - males and females intent on their devices, giving the job of driving about 20% of their attention and often driving far too quickly. How do you get it across to these USAs to change their behaviour? ("USA" = "Unjustifiably Self Assured").
The revenue-oriented focus of the police that assumes that speed is the root of all evil (it's a factor in everything of course) without being a little more sophisticated about the real causes can blind a society to its own inadequacies. How then can this be managed properly? A real root cause analysis without the influence of the mighty $$$ could be a start.
It appears there are few votes in improving our drivers as proper education and training would certainly require a huge focus and revenue. Can't see that happening any time soon. In the meantime, I'm much happier taking beautiful quiet back-roads, budgeting for longer commute times and calmer, safer driving!
Phew - feels great to have that rant off my chest! ;D
Cheers,
Dave
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This happened this morning north of Hervey Bay, Qld, not on the highway but a well used main road. Appears the two occupants are OK and no other vehicle involved. Great that there are no injuries but I bet they are suffering. Looks like straight stretch of road. No idea how it occurred but it makes you shudder of what can happen while you are having fun. They say there is no such thing as an accident, but perhaps this was just an accident? Kevin
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv33888%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D373742%3A43633%3Bnu0mrj)
lookin at the edge of that road, wouldn't take much to start a sway up.... panic - hit the picks and away she goes...
I don't agree with that bollox of "theres no such thing as an accident"... ****in ridiculous to think it....
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Not sure what the other state's road safety campaigns are about but here in Qld the police focus on the Fatal Five
Distraction and inattention
Speeding
Drink and drug driving
Failure to wear a seatbelt
Driving while fatigued
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/EventsandAlerts/campaigns/fatalfive.htm (https://www.police.qld.gov.au/EventsandAlerts/campaigns/fatalfive.htm)
KB
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Not sure what the other state's road safety campaigns are about but here in Qld the police focus on the Fatal Five
Distraction and inattention
Speeding0Drink and drug driving
Failure to wear a seatbelt
Driving while fatigued
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/EventsandAlerts/campaigns/fatalfive.htm (https://www.police.qld.gov.au/EventsandAlerts/campaigns/fatalfive.htm)
KB
neatly forgot Shit road conditions.
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I don't agree with that bollox of "theres no such thing as an accident"... ****in ridiculous to think it....
According to dictionary.com
"accident - any event that happens unexpectedly without deliberate plan or cause"
So you're right as i suspect nobody plans to go & die in a car crash.
The only way to get rid of the road toll is to get rid of the cause - CARS, & we know that will never happen.
But like the population naturally increases so do the number of cars on the road & so i suspect the media & respective agencies focus on driver related issues to draw attention away from road capacity which i think would have some contributing factors to overall road statistics.
Like someone else mentioned any figures stated perhaps should be given in percentage terms to indicate progress (or regress) of any road safety campaigns.
In saying that i am certain figures do nothing to alleviate the pain of losing someone in a road crash
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Driving out of Forbes a few days ago, the missus and I talked about it. It is my view that she made a conscious decision to press on despite no doubt having all the warning signs - long blinks, the head nods, creeping tiredness etc. We've all been there and sometimes (myself included) we've decided to press on and take the risk. Not any more - too old and responsible now... ;D
I know this is a bit beside the point, but here is a potentially lethal situation - probably not an uncommon one at these times, IMHO knowingly created by someone old enough to know better that could easily have taken the road toll to even great heights. If they'd hit us and taken us all out, it would have been 8 more unnecessary deaths.
Part of the problem comes from cities unleashing thousands of drivers lacking experience in long distance driving onto our roads. Perhaps people just don't care about tiredness, speed, silly decisions on the road until they're either caught or worse. "I'll be right", "I'm a good driver" etc.
The revenue-oriented focus of the police that assumes that speed is the root of all evil (it's a factor in everything of course) without being a little more sophisticated about the real causes can blind a society to its own inadequacies. How then can this be managed properly? A real root cause analysis without the influence of the mighty $$$ could be a start.
It appears there are few votes in improving our drivers as proper education and training would certainly require a huge focus and revenue. Can't see that happening any time soon. In the meantime, I'm much happier taking beautiful quiet back-roads, budgeting for longer commute times and calmer, safer driving!
Cheers,
Dave
Hi Dave, I agree with you. Most of us, if not all, have pushed the limits. These people did so, and paid the price.
The only difference between them and you and I is probably luck.
We bang on about young drivers, but this Easter I have heard about quite a few mature drivers getting it wrong.
I don't agree with the focus on 'holiday' reporting - the same people that drive away on holidays drive every day somewhere. People still die outside of holidays.
One day, when we finally all agree that penalties don't work to stop inattention, tiredness, not knowing ones own capabilities or the capability of their vehicle etc, we might enforce regular driving tests and lesson refreshers for all road users. The money from road users breaking the law should fund this.
And education ongoing from an early age. Stay safe all.
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Post withdrawn from discussion as a mark of respect to the feelings of the MySwag family affected by a recent tragedy ..
Our sincere condolences to your family and freinds over your loss ..
Ed .
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My thoughts go out to a MySwag family that lost a Mother, and the father is still in hospital in a bad way. As far as I am aware they were in the wrong spot at the wrong time and was hit by someone on the wrong side of the road. Please take care at all times but especially at the busier times.
If we can keep the tone of this thread a bit lighter for the time being that would be appreciated
GG
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Agree with your sentiments GG, heard the news yesterday when we were on our way home, our thoughts are with the family
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My thoughts go out to a MySwag family that lost a Mother, and the father is still in hospital in a bad way. As far as I am aware they were in the wrong spot at the wrong time and was hit by someone on the wrong side of the road. Please take care at all times but especially at the busier times.
If we can keep the tone of this thread a bit lighter for the time being that would be appreciated
GG
Hey GG,
very sad to hear that. Can't imagine the pain felt by that poor family right now. Makes you value each moment more and re-evaluate your own life a bit more.
Regards and sympathy from this myswag family,
Dave
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My thoughts go out to a MySwag family that lost a Mother, and the father is still in hospital in a bad way. As far as I am aware they were in the wrong spot at the wrong time and was hit by someone on the wrong side of the road. Please take care at all times but especially at the busier times.
If we can keep the tone of this thread a bit lighter for the time being that would be appreciated
GG
Well said Garrick.
Just terrible :'(
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The matter of calling a crash an accident really means no one could be charged with an offence. Refer to the definition of an accident in the dictionary and what the law says about an incident that was caused by an unintentional accident. So to stop calling collisions an accident was to make the incident more serious and better for court purposes.
I recall back in my high school days attending a movie night on the after affects of fatal crashes, aimed to make soon to be drivers more aware of the dangers. The films were shocking but when I got my licence I still did stupid things, it did not seem to work on myself or my mates.
What did work was my old occupation and dealing with numerous serious and fatal collisions (yes, I was a serious crash investigator for a number of years) and telling mothers/fathers etc about the death of a loved one. To this day I remember every one of them and still see the look of hatred in their eyes directed at me.
I actually hate speed cameras. I use to like being on the road and pulling drivers over for speeding. Showing the flag so to speak. I know there is a vast range of opinions on speed cameras so I don’t wish to get into a debate about them.
Could one of the causes of crashes be that everyone seems to be in a hurry and have little patience? It is amazing how different you feel when you have the mindset to be in no hurry, chill out and let the other go past you, and I don’t mean you go so slow to hold traffic up. Kevin
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I hate speed cameras aswel but only the ones that are placed in areas where speeding is not always avoidable or intentional like at the bottom of a hill and where you may need to get a bit extra speed up to go up a hill with a trailer or merge. I believe they focus on speeding and drink drivers because they are profitable and don't bother with the others that can't drive/shouldn't drive or the ones that do 80 in a 100 zone when there no traffic
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I believe they focus on speeding and drink drivers because they are profitable and don't bother with the others
Seriously? So the police only book speeders and drunks becuse of profit motivation?
KB
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Sorry to hear that. I really do sympathise with those who have had to go through something like this, and I would never wish it on anyone. I had a horrific start to my 20's. In the space of 12 months I lost my dad (head on with a semi-trailer when he fell asleep) and 3 other friends in separate accidents. In all cases they were just accidents. No drugs, no drink, no excessive speed, no silly behaviour, just accidents and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its just made me more aware when driving, but I know I am not infallible. No one is.
To go back to the OP - saying something is worse than 20 years ago over simplifies the fact that our populations and car ownership have increased dramatically in the last 20 years. Put simply, year on year, road fatalities have been falling whilst population and car ownership have been increasing. If you look at deaths per 100million vehicle-km travelled they show a 4%per annum decline over the last 8 years.
I honestly believe this national road toll reporting is really just sensationalist headlines for the networks and as a by-product gives government's fuel to call for more speed cameras. The simple fact of the matter is that road deaths still only account for about 0.9% of all deaths in Australia, yet we don't have a National Easter Heart Disease Toll or Cancer Death Toll appearing on the 6pm news.
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Speaking about "P" platers.....
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Seriously? So the police only book speeders and drunks becuse of profit motivation?
KB
+1. have to agree with KB here...
speed and drunken idiots are two of the biggest killers on the road. hence the reason they concentrate on them...
in the end, you can't cure 'stupid'...
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+1. have to agree with KB here...
speed and drunken idiots are two of the biggest killers on the road. hence the reason they concentrate on them...
in the end, you can't cure 'stupid'...
yup - in the 4 and a half months after introducing RBT in NSW in 1982 there was a 48% reduction in fatal road accidents.
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Speed cameras are predominantly revenue collection devices disguised as safty tools.
A wholeheartedly agree there are absolute tosspots hammering around doing excessive speeds and they are a danger to everyone including themselves but they are a minority.
If i get booked for instance doing 56 in a 50 that's flat out bs and to try to convince me that it is punishable by fine for any other reason than revenue collection is a waste of time because it's horse Shit.
Unless we want to all agree that Germans are indeed the master race and far more capable of driving over 100k and it isn't just thier tax dollars build better roads than ours. our tax dollars plus millions in speed camera fines should go on better roads not to our our incompitant governments coffers
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yup - in the 4 and a half months after introducing RBT in NSW in 1982 there was a 48% reduction in fatal road accidents.
they have lost their effectiveness. Many don't give a Shit anymore.
NSW alone
Drink driving charges 298
Positive drug tests 222
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they have lost their effectiveness. Many don't give a Shit anymore.
NSW alone
Drink driving charges 298
Positive drug tests 222
the justice system is what has lost its effectiveness...
when there is little to no penalty, people won't care as much...
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the justice system is what has lost its effectiveness...
when there is little to no penalty, people won't care as much...
I put it down to less cops on the road compared to humans.. more presence and people will change... But that costs money not makes money...
first thing most people do when the see a cop is check their speed...
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Make a presence on the road and people slow down. Hide and no one thinks about it! :police:
Foo
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More cops less fixed speed cameras, but the local govt dosn't want that...Both options cost them too much
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On driving home yesterday cruising along on 95-98 on a 100 signed road I must have had 50 cars go past and give me a look of disgust as I was clearly driving at the speed limit. At least 10 cars decided to cut back in front of me within a meter of old Frankie.
Swannie
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I put it down to less cops on the road compared to humans.. more presence and people will change... But that costs money not makes money...
first thing most people do when the see a cop is check their speed...
Isn't that what happened in New York. They asked Mayor Giuliani (sp?) how he'd reduced the crime rate so much. He said he put more cops on the street and less behind their desks doing paperwork.
More visible cops out the less issues there are. Mind you I saw about 15-20 cops out and about on the Pacific Highway this weekend.
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just another, today heading to airport and home, it was pissin down, I mean real Shit conditions, and the amount of people with no headlights on with viz at some stages where the water was sitting on the road, only 50-100mtrs tops..
What are people trying to save their car battery power?
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My thoughts go out to a MySwag family that lost a Mother, and the father is still in hospital in a bad way. As far as I am aware they were in the wrong spot at the wrong time and was hit by someone on the wrong side of the road. Please take care at all times but especially at the busier times.
If we can keep the tone of this thread a bit lighter for the time being that would be appreciated
GG
Sad reminder that this can happen to anyone.
Thoughts go out to the swaggers.
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Sad reminder that this can happen to anyone.
Thoughts go out to the swaggers.
And ours also
KB
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Sad reminder that this can happen to anyone.
Thoughts go out to the swaggers.
+1... prayers to the family involved, and also friends...
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I put it down to less cops on the road compared to humans.. more presence and people will change... But that costs money not makes money...
first thing most people do when the see a cop is check their speed...
Agreed, if it was about road safety and not revenue raising they would be more visible and wouldn't have unmarked speed cameras. The best thing the police could do in an unmarked car to get people to slowdown is drive around around flashing their headlights at oncoming traffic.
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Sad reminder that this can happen to anyone.
Thoughts go out to the swaggers.
Terrible, thoughts go out to them.
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Agreed, if it was about road safety and not revenue raising they would be more visible and wouldn't have unmarked speed cameras. The best thing the police could do in an unmarked car to get people to slowdown is drive around around flashing their headlights at oncoming traffic.
I get to drive around the country a bit. Recently in NSW I saw a marked camera vehicle with warning signs before and after. Was nice and visible.
In QLD, they only have to display a single sign which is always on the other side of the vehicle from where you are approaching. And they are unmarked, or worse they are hidden behind Perspex in custom ute canopies.
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For all those having a little whinge about speed cameras, whether they be marked or unmarked, here is an easy solution to solve all your problems, don't speed. Simple!!!!
For those who reckon the cops are doing it for revenue raising, seriously? The police get no revenue from fines of any description. All fines go to the state gevernment's consolidated revenue fund and the police budget is doled out by your elected representatives just like for any other government department budget.
Every state govenment in Australia would go broke overnight if they did not have speed cameras. I personally reckon speed cameras are great. The more the better. You see I know that if there weren't any speed cameras, the government would have to raise taxes, or introduce new taxes, to cover their current level of spending on things like health and education and better roads etc. Because I don't speed, I don't have to pay the speed camera tax and can leave it to those who speed to subsidise my welfare. Speed cameras are saving me taxes. They are great!!!! Let's have more of them.
KB
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In this day and age of cars / trucks being that 99.9 % are fitted with computers, it would be easier and cheaper to market a mass produced speed limeter and retro fit it, No more speed worries and free's up the Blue ..
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In this day and age of cars / trucks being that 99.9 % are fitted with computers, it would be easier and cheaper to market a mass produced speed limeter and retro fit it, No more speed worries and free's up the Blue ..
Nooooo, then my taxes will go up. Let the speedsters pay my taxes for me. Silly suggestion ;D
KB
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In this day and age of cars / trucks being that 99.9 % are fitted with computers, it would be easier and cheaper to market a mass produced speed limeter and retro fit it, No more speed worries and free's up the Blue ..
GPS trackers are the way to go. Every month download the info and issue fines accordingly. We have them in our work trucks and issue warnings to those that continually break the speed limits.
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Heard an interesting comment the other day regarding people falling asleep behind the wheel. Apparently most new vehicles today, the cabins are very well sealed from the outside world, so after a period of time when the air con is set on recirculate the oxygen levels in the cabins become very low and that is when drowsiness sets in and people tend to want to go to sleep. A solution is to every hour or two to put the air con on fresh to replenish the oxygen in the cabin. Makes sense to me.
As far as speed cameras go, you only have to have a UHF on channel 40 to find out where a camera or hand held is situated. Personally I think more patrol cars would slow people down. Sure they tell you on the UHF where they saw them, but buy the time you get there the patrol car could be anywhere. I totally agree with the comments ' If you don't want to get booked for speeding, then don't speed'. Simple solution.
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I get to drive around the country a bit. Recently in NSW I saw a marked camera vehicle with warning signs before and after. Was nice and visible.
In QLD, they only have to display a single sign which is always on the other side of the vehicle from where you are approaching. And they are unmarked, or worse they are hidden behind Perspex in custom ute canopies.
Strange that isn't it.
Its a bit like "Flashing oncoming traffic" if you do it & get caught you get fined (apparently) but if i think someone heading towards me is travelling to fast, I flash 'em, may or may not slow them down but my bet would be that they would slow down fo the next few klms at least, i know i always do. So my gripe with potentially getting fined for doing it is, whats more important someone slowing down & possibly saving a life or that the police miss out on nabbing a speedster?
In saying that i have been "Flashed" by highway patrol, was probably doing the obligatory 10% over, but hey i did slow (if only to see whether they turned & chased) down, i was grateful for the warning, so whats good for the goose is good for the gander ;D
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Strange that isn't it.
Its a bit like "Flashing oncoming traffic" if you do it & get caught you get fined (apparently) but if i think someone heading towards me is travelling to fast, I flash 'em, may or may not slow them down but my bet would be that they would slow down fo the next few klms at least, i know i always do. So my gripe with potentially getting fined for doing it is, whats more important someone slowing down & possibly saving a life or that the police miss out on nabbing a speedster?
In saying that i have been "Flashed" by highway patrol, was probably doing the obligatory 10% over, but hey i did slow (if only to see whether they turned & chased) down, i was grateful for the warning, so whats good for the goose is good for the gander ;D
Comparing youself randomly flashing somebody who you are "guessing" is speeding to a cop car flashing you based upon their tested and QA approved radar is not much of a comparison.
Oh, and in Qld, the "obligatory 10% over" went out 12 months or more ago. Good luck if you are still basing your speed on that.
KB
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Comparing youself randomly flashing somebody who you are "guessing" is speeding to a cop car flashing you based upon their tested and QA approved radar is not much of a comparison.
Oh, and in Qld, the "obligatory 10% over" went out 12 months or more ago. Good luck if you are still basing your speed on that.
KB
You totally missed the point of my post.
I was merely questioning the validity of fining someone who "flashes" oncoming traffic with a view to slowing them down, regardless of whether i "guess" the speed as opposed to police radar.
Because in the cold hard light of day there is noway known if my "flashing" makes any difference at all, simply because its a circular argument. The other consideration is also the limit maybe 100 but if its pi$$in rain then that speed may not be appropriate, but it certainly wouldnt be illegal.
As i said previously the only guaranteed way to eliminate the road toll is to get rid of the cause - CARS -
I hope i never have to face that & i feel for the people that have & do, but we need to understand its inevitable that people will be killed whilst driving cars
My speed is based on the speedo, & i know the 10% rule went out, its down to 8% apparently ;D
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Strange that isn't it.
Its a bit like "Flashing oncoming traffic" if you do it & get caught you get fined (apparently).
The fine is for using high beams within 200m of an oncoming car (at least in NSW). Simple solution, turn lights on and off quickly to low beam only.
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For all those having a little whinge about speed cameras, whether they be marked or unmarked, here is an easy solution to solve all your problems, don't speed. Simple!!!!
For those who reckon the cops are doing it for revenue raising, seriously? The police get no revenue from fines of any description. All fines go to the state gevernment's consolidated revenue fund and the police budget is doled out by your elected representatives just like for any other government department budget.
Every state govenment in Australia would go broke overnight if they did not have speed cameras. I personally reckon speed cameras are great. The more the better. You see I know that if there weren't any speed cameras, the government would have to raise taxes, or introduce new taxes, to cover their current level of spending on things like health and education and better roads etc. Because I don't speed, I don't have to pay the speed camera tax and can leave it to those who speed to subsidise my welfare. Speed cameras are saving me taxes. They are great!!!! Let's have more of them.
KB
I never been done by a speed camera (touch wood) but I hate the thought of someone having just sped past one going on to injure someone. I'd like to see more presence
on the road.
You totally missed the point of my post.
I was merely questioning the validity of fining someone who "flashes" oncoming traffic with a view to slowing them down, regardless of whether i "guess" the speed as opposed to police radar.
Because in the cold hard light of day there is noway known if my "flashing" makes any difference at all, simply because its a circular argument. The other consideration is also the limit maybe 100 but if its pi$$in rain then that speed may not be appropriate, but it certainly wouldnt be illegal.
As i said previously the only guaranteed way to eliminate the road toll is to get rid of the cause - CARS -
I hope i never have to face that & i feel for the people that have & do, but we need to understand its inevitable that people will be killed whilst driving cars
My speed is based on the speedo, & i know the 10% rule went out, its down to 8% apparently ;D
My father said years ago that if everyone drove a 60s VW there would be few if any deaths from car accidents, as they were just like dodgem cars.
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we just completed a 2,200km round trip: Brisbane; Roma; Charleville; Canarvon; and back to Brisbane..
I did not see one roadside speed unit during that entire trip, (over the deadly Easter period)... or any police whatsoever..
Except for 1 or 2 cop cars (which I assume were equipped with speed cameras) - both going and returning - (on the stretch between Injune and Canarvon)... And that could be argued was for "revenue purposes"...??
(Even the console operator at the Caltex at Injune warned us about the mobile speed patrols in that area - warning us to stick to the 90km - 100km speed limits.... Said he had coped a $400 speeding fine the day before - doing 120km per hour...
But the sickest thing to me was returning back to Brisbane last night at about 4pm- 6pm (TUE 07/04) ... on the stretch Dalby - Toowoomba.... So much traffic (in both directions); no police in sight; at least 100+ B Doubles and Triples coming head on, (traveling West); only about 3 places that I recall in the whole stretch where there were overtaking lanes; and in the mix of all that - a @#$%& P Plater leap frogging 1, or more cars / trucks at a time - at speeds at least 120kms - 130plms an hour...
All of that is just waiting for death to come, imo... (no police; loads of traffic including 'city folk' returning to Brisbane?; gazillions of B doubles and triples etc; (them driving head on at ya facing the setting sun; absence of overtaking lanes; and the P Plater....) All very sad and dangerous...
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For all those having a little whinge about speed cameras, whether they be marked or unmarked, here is an easy solution to solve all your problems, don't speed. Simple!!!!
For those who reckon the cops are doing it for revenue raising, seriously? The police get no revenue from fines of any description. All fines go to the state gevernment's consolidated revenue fund and the police budget is doled out by your elected representatives just like for any other government department budget.
Every state govenment in Australia would go broke overnight if they did not have speed cameras. I personally reckon speed cameras are great. The more the better. You see I know that if there weren't any speed cameras, the government would have to raise taxes, or introduce new taxes, to cover their current level of spending on things like health and education and better roads etc. Because I don't speed, I don't have to pay the speed camera tax and can leave it to those who speed to subsidise my welfare. Speed cameras are saving me taxes. They are great!!!! Let's have more of them.
KB
KB - that's exactly what many are saying - when govt relies on the revenue to pay for extravagant spending, then they devise ways to capture more 'speeders'. What is the cost to clean up each accident - ie hospital, ambulance, firies, cops, road repairs? Less accidents means less costs, and better utilisation of public assets.
Like in Victoria - my first time driving there I got caught doing 103 in a 100 zone. They only allow 2k buffer. Was I speeding? Technically, but why is that a safe and legal speed in QLD?
Visible police cause people to slow down. That causes the whole traffic line to slow, and prevents speeding. If it's for safety, then we need visible police, not hiding in bushes or in unmarked vans.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)
Look at Germany with high limits. Perhaps driver skills & road conditions are a factor? I've just come back from 4 weeks in Europe & felt safer with the drivers there than any place in Oz. Even in Paris & Rome it's a passive drive with pedestrians, pushbikes, motor scooters & taxis jostling for space. I loved it & guess what? No road rage. If someone cuts in or out there may be a gesture or quick blow of the horn & then it's all over.
And, as an aside, this is the only bicycle rider I saw in Lycra!
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I hate the "road toll" like it's always going up. We are actually doing really good and that needs to be said by the police media.
What is very sneaky is including city fatals in the mix. If you die on northboure av Canberra or on the ring road in vic it's got bugger all to do with Easter.
The stationary speed cameras in NSW (white dual cabs) are doing a great job at reducing major collisions in NSW.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Seriously? So the police only book speeders and drunks becuse of profit motivation?
KB
i know they don't only book speeding and drunk drivers but I don't see blitzes on unroadworthy cars, people who can't/should not be driving. I know they do book them all but seems to me their main focus is on those two offences as they do male a lot of revenue from them and are easier to police. I get they don't want people to die or be injured and I think anyone who drive with any alcohol in their system is foolish but putting a speed camera at the bottom of a down hill not a steep one just steep enough to gain a few kms over or in a street which has been recently resigned a slower speed 60 down to 50 (I got done doing 56) seems like they have a target figure to raise
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I believe that the road toll is as high as it is because the police and the government concentrate their efforts on speeding instead of the real causes. Speed is only responsible for less than 1% of fatal accidents. If they were serious about reducing the road toll they would concentrate on the other 99% instead of revenue raising.
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I believe that the road toll is as high as it is because the police and the government concentrate their efforts on speeding instead of the real causes. Speed is only responsible for less than 1% of fatal accidents. If they were serious about reducing the road toll they would concentrate on the other 99% instead of revenue raising.
Welcome to the forum.
Do you have any actual data to substantiate your claim of "speed is only reponsible for less than1% of fatal accidents"?
Very different opinion to what the below have found:
http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/statistics/summaries/speed-statistics (http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/statistics/summaries/speed-statistics)
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/statistics/crashbehaviouralfactors.html (http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/statistics/crashbehaviouralfactors.html)
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Transport%20and%20road%20statistics/Road%20safety/Fatal_road_traffic_crashes_in_qld_2011.pdf (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Transport%20and%20road%20statistics/Road%20safety/Fatal_road_traffic_crashes_in_qld_2011.pdf)
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/D18CA4EA930FF0D2CA25773700169CE5?opendocument (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/D18CA4EA930FF0D2CA25773700169CE5?opendocument)
KB
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or in a street which has been recently resigned a slower speed 60 down to 50 (I got done doing 56) seems like they have a target figure to raise
Not sure what state you are in or talking about but in Queensland the speed limit is 50 kph UNLESS OTHERWISE SIGNED.
Secondly I can categorically assure you that in Queensland there are no "target figures" or quotas for issuing traffic tickets by the police.
KB
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Welcome to the forum.
Do you have any actual data to substantiate your claim of "speed is only reponsible for less than1% of fatal accidents"?
Very different opinion to what the below have found:
http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/statistics/summaries/speed-statistics (http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/statistics/summaries/speed-statistics)
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/statistics/crashbehaviouralfactors.html (http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/statistics/crashbehaviouralfactors.html)
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Transport%20and%20road%20statistics/Road%20safety/Fatal_road_traffic_crashes_in_qld_2011.pdf (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Transport%20and%20road%20statistics/Road%20safety/Fatal_road_traffic_crashes_in_qld_2011.pdf)
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/D18CA4EA930FF0D2CA25773700169CE5?opendocument (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/D18CA4EA930FF0D2CA25773700169CE5?opendocument)
KB
I sure do.
All the links below use fake data to justify the revenue raising.
I was one of the few people outside the government to get to read the QLD Parliamentary Travel Safe committee report into the introduction of speed cameras in QLD. This is the report that was tabled in Parliament in order to pass the speed camera legislation. The report had to use the real facts and figures rather than the information that is released to the general public. The figures came from the coroner's office and are substantiated.
Several interesting facts are in the document.
The percentage of fatal road accidents that are caused by speed is about 0.85%
Fatalities have increased in almost every state and country where speed cameras have been introduced.
They were unable to find a single country where speed cameras have lowered the death toll.
Speed cameras were recommended for use in QLD in this report because of the revenue they generate. The monetary figures were based on NSW and VIC's current and future revenue figures.
BTW. Your a funny bastard. ;)
I've been here since 2006 and my post count is double yours ;)
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I sure do.
All the links below use fake data to justify the revenue raising.
I was one of the few people outside the government to get to read the QLD Parliamentary Travel Safe committee report into the introduction of speed cameras in QLD.
So just another government conspiracy then ;D
Do you have a link? As it is a govenment committee and report it should be publicly available. I found a lot of that committee's reports online but not the one you refer to. All I could find was the below and it suggests speed cameras reduce the road toll
http://rti.cabinet.qld.gov.au/documents/2011/apr/inquiry%20into%20fixed%20speed%20cameras/Attachments/Economic%20committee%20report%20no%204.pdf (http://rti.cabinet.qld.gov.au/documents/2011/apr/inquiry%20into%20fixed%20speed%20cameras/Attachments/Economic%20committee%20report%20no%204.pdf)
BTW. Your a funny bastard. ;)
I've been here since 2006 and my post count is double yours ;)
Well I was just going by your forum profile which says you joined in August 2010 and that was your first post (you now have two). What am I missing?
KB
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now I'm just confused!!!
swannie
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So just another government conspiracy then ;D
Do you have a link? As it is a govenment committee and report it should be publicly available. I found a lot of that committee's reports online but not the one you refer to. All I could find was the below and it suggests speed cameras reduce the road toll
http://rti.cabinet.qld.gov.au/documents/2011/apr/inquiry%20into%20fixed%20speed%20cameras/Attachments/Economic%20committee%20report%20no%204.pdf (http://rti.cabinet.qld.gov.au/documents/2011/apr/inquiry%20into%20fixed%20speed%20cameras/Attachments/Economic%20committee%20report%20no%204.pdf)
Well I was just going by your forum profile which says you joined in August 2010 and that was your first post (you now have two). What am I missing?
KB
The report was tabled in parliament and is most likely not going to be released to the public any time soon.
You could imagine the public backlash.
I approached ACA and today tonight about it but they are not allowed to report it due to the embargo.
As for my profile. The mods might be playing games again. One of them recently deleted about 2000 of my posts including a lot of tech that I had written about replacing the head on ZD30s. They are aware I'm pissed about it and don't give a rats that so much technical information was deleted because they were using us for a "social experiment"
For the record I joined in June2006 and my post count is over 10,000.
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now I'm just confused!!!
swannie
In always confused. Join the club. :)
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As for my profile. The mods might be playing games again. One of them recently deleted about 2000 of my posts including a lot of tech that I had written about replacing the head on ZD30s. They are aware I'm pissed about it and don't give a rats that so much technical information was deleted because they were using us for a "social experiment"
For the record I joined in June2006 and my post count is over 10,000.
Dot painting comes to mind. :angel:
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The report was tabled in parliament and is most likely not going to be released to the public any time soon.
You could imagine the public backlash.
I approached ACA and today tonight about it but they are not allowed to report it due to the embargo
Mate not sure what you are on about but if the report was tabled in Parliament, as you state, it would be publicly available. If it was only a Cabinet document then there are certain restrictions on public access to some Cabinet documents and discussions. But the Travel Safe Committee is not Cabinet and is not subject to those Canbinet exceptions. From what I could find all of their reports are available online but I couldn't find the one you are referring to.
https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-committees/former-committees/TSAFE (https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-committees/former-committees/TSAFE)
As for my profile. The mods might be playing games again. One of them recently deleted about 2000 of my posts including a lot of tech that I had written about replacing the head on ZD30s. They are aware I'm pissed about it and don't give a rats that so much technical information was deleted because they were using us for a "social experiment"
For the record I joined in June2006 and my post count is over 10,000.
So now there is also a conspiracy with the myswag moderators. You have got to be kidding me? The mods are conducting "social experiments". Bahahahahaha
So if you had 10,000 posts and the mods deleted 2,000' where have the other 8,000 gone?
Have you always had the forum name of "skegbudley" or have you recently changed forum names?
KB
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For the record I joined in June2006
I just checked the members list and Brett, the owner of myswag, was the first member and he joined on 17 May 2007. Are you sure you are on the right forum ;D
KB
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As for my profile. The mods might be playing games again. One of them recently deleted about 2000 of my posts including a lot of tech that I had written about replacing the head on ZD30s. They are aware I'm pissed about it and don't give a rats that so much technical information was deleted because they were using us for a "social experiment"
For the record I joined in June2006 and my post count is over 10,000.
I think you're mistaken...
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Rofl. I just realised what happened.
Tapatalk tripped out and switched into myswag from patrol4x4.com. I didn't realise I was posting here. :)
The info I posted is still current. I worked in the road research laboratory at the Queensland university of technology for many years so I got to see a lot of stuff that the general public doesn't.
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Rofl. I just realised what happened.
Tapatalk tripped out and switched into myswag from patrol4x4.com. I didn't realise I was posting here. :)
The info I posted is still current. I worked in the road research laboratory at the Queensland university of technology for many years so I got to see a lot of stuff that the general public doesn't.
So you should have a link to the public document you refer to. Please post
KB
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I approached ACA and today tonight about it but they are not allowed to report it due to the embargo.
re: this bit - I would be interested in reading any of the ACA etc rejection emails/correspondence you may have received; that may lend support to your allegations regarding Govt conspiracies and "embargoes"... .
Do you have anything specific in writing about these matters; or was it just a "click" on the phone: when ACA etc dismissively hung up on you??
Why not try Julian Asange's (sp?) mob for revelation?
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So you should have a link to the public document you refer to. Please post
KB
It's not a public document. You don't have access to such sensitive information.
You would have to apply for it under the freedom to information act.
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Rofl. I just realised what happened.
Tapatalk tripped out and switched into myswag from patrol4x4.com. I didn't realise I was posting here. :)
The info I posted is still current. I worked in the road research laboratory at the Queensland university of technology for many years so I got to see a lot of stuff that the general public doesn't.
Amazing how different your work for them revealed compared to those of us on here, and there are a few btw, who actually worked as unbiased professional, dedicated accident investigators. Those of us who applied the exact same methodology and digilence as a murder investigation.
I know of no investigator who would support you in any way nor your less than 1% speed influence on serious collisions.
Virtually every one will tell you that three things are virtually always present.
1. Speed above the posted limit
2. Alcohol
3. Fatigue / lack of concentration.
Most fatals have two of these present at the time. But he'll, maybe we are pawns in some conspiracy and the chip implants tell us what to do.
Tell you what. Have some balls and next time you see a fatal accident go and tell the investigators they are part of a conspiracy. Film the response for us.
Also. Why not Specify exactly what your position was with the research unit, your qualifications and specific research.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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re: this bit - I would be interested in reading any of the ACA etc rejection emails/correspondence you may have received; that may lend support to your allegations regarding Govt conspiracies and "embargoes"... .
Do you have anything specific in writing about these matters; or was it just a "click" on the phone: when ACA etc dismissively hung up on you??
Why not try Julian Asange's (sp?) mob for revelation?
Yes they hung up on me after telling me what the story was why they weren't allowed to report on it.
There is a heap of things that the news is not allowed to report on. Gateway bridge suicides for example. It has the highest suicide rate of any bridge in the southern hemisphere but the general public will never read about it. ;)
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Rofl. I just realised what happened.
Tapatalk tripped out and switched into myswag from patrol4x4.com. I didn't realise I was posting here. :)
The info I posted is still current. I worked in the road research laboratory at the Queensland university of technology for many years so I got to see a lot of stuff that the general public doesn't.
Actually it is called The Centre for Accident Research and Road Safety – Queensland (CARRS-Q) but I guess you would know that ;D. OK, here's a paper from CAARS-Q who you supposedly worked for, which says that in 2011, 17.8% of fatalities in Qld involved speeding. A bit more than your 0.85%. Or is QUT also part of your conspiracy?
http://www.carrsq.qut.edu.au/publications/corporate/speeding_fs.pdf (http://www.carrsq.qut.edu.au/publications/corporate/speeding_fs.pdf)
KB
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It's not a public document. You don't have access to such sensitive information.
You would have to apply for it under the freedom to information act.
Bullsh!t. If it was tabled in Parliament, as you said, it is a public document
KB
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Yes they hung up on me after telling me what the story was why they weren't allowed to report on it.
There is a heap of things that the news is not allowed to report on. Gateway bridge suicides for example. It has the highest suicide rate of any bridge in the southern hemisphere but the general public will never read about it. ;)
More rubbish. Yes, there were jumpers but the Story Bridge had, and still has, a far worse record. The Gateway Bridge is now fenced to prevent climbers. Have a look next time you drive across.
KB
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I stopped working there 15 years ago. Years before the name change. Its not a conspiracy. They have 3 sets of figures to work with. If you ever had access to high level documents you would know this.
If you really want to find out. I would try the coroner's office. They are the ones with the real figures. Im not going back to there. Reading 2000 death reports from fatal motorcycle accidents still gives me nightmares today. Having to dispose of all their helmets after the testing didn't help either.
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I stopped working there 15 years ago. Years before the name change. Its not a conspiracy. They have 3 sets of figures to work with. If you ever had access to high level documents you would know this.
If you really want to find out. I would try the coroner's office. They are the ones with the real figures. Im not going back to there. Reading 2000 death reports from fatal motorcycle accidents still gives me nightmares today. Having to dispose of all their helmets after the testing didn't help either.
As you would know CARRS-Q was only founded in 1996 but you are telling us that you read 2000 fatal motorcycle death reports in 4 years. I call bullsh!t again
KB
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Having to dispose of all their helmets after the testing didn't help either.
In all the motorcycle fatals I've attended the helmet never once went with the deceased.
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In all the motorcycle fatals I've attended the helmet never once went with the deceased.
Yeah mate.
We had a research program running over many years that looked at fatal motorcycle accidents. We were given over a thousand helmets during this period to test. They also included horse riding and push bike helmets a side study. it was not very pleasant research at all.
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As you would know CARRS-Q was only founded in 1996 but you are telling us that you read 2000 fatal motorcycle death reports in 4 years. I call bullsh!t again
KB
I worked at QUT from 1988 until 2000.
Back then it was called the Road Research Centre.
It was run by Professor Rod Troutbeck.
bs squashed. ;)
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Yeah mate.
We had a research program running over many years that looked at fatal motorcycle accidents. We were given over a thousand helmets during this period to test. They also included horse riding and push bike helmets a side study. it was not very pleasant research at all.
Between 1998 and 2000, the were 4525 fatalities on Qld roads. On average, 15% of fatalities are motorcycles. So for that period you worked there approx 680 motorcycle fatalities for the whole of Qld.
KB
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KB, are you bored? You seem to be doing a lot of research today :D
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Has anyone read this book. It's has a very similar theme to this thread.
(http://www.crossroadpublishing.com/crossroad/sites/default/files/covers/GrandInquisitor_524357_Cf.jpg)
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Has anyone read this book. It's has a very similar theme to this thread.
Wondered when you would add your two cents worth Marschy. Still got some sh!t on your liver. Mate, seriously, get over it and move on. I am getting a bit sick of you having a crack at me all the time.
KB
PS I would have sent you a PM but you have blocked me from doing that. My apologies to the rest of the forum that this has yet again been discussed publicly.
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KB, are you bored? You seem to be doing a lot of research today :D
Bored silly mate. But bit over it all now. Might go have a little nap ;D
KB
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Few seemed to have addressed the issue the OP raises - are road fatalities any worse during holiday periods when corrected for vehicle movements?
I have a philosophical objection to the emphasis placed on speed control - as another poster mentioned road related deaths are not even close to being a leading cause of death in this country. Twice as many Australians die by suicide year than die on our roads, and the focus and level of resources put towards these two issues would be inversely proportional. You are more likely to get a speeding ticket trying get to some mental health support than you are getting any actual support. And let me be clear, my beef is not with the police, who do as they are directed to do by their political masters, my beef is with the way resources are allocated.
Death is a tragedy in most instances, no more so on a road than by a noose, a knife, a gun, cancer, cholesterol or domestic violence.
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C'mon Gents, settle it down again, another thread going off the rails
Swannie
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Bored silly mate. But bit over it all now. Might go have a little nap ;D
KB
Sometimes it's better to smile and nod. ;D
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Few seemed to have addressed the issue the OP raises - are road fatalities any worse during holiday periods when corrected for vehicle movements?
Ok found a publication from Australian Transport Safety Bureau, 2004. https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2004/pdf/Safety_Aust.pdf (https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2004/pdf/Safety_Aust.pdf)
Chapter 8. p63. it states:
"There is clearly no significant difference in the daily death rate between the holiday period and the non-holiday periods. The number of deaths during the holiday period has followed a similar trend to that of the non-holiday periods. However, what cannot be known is the ‘counterfactual’ of how much worse the holiday death rate would be if additional enforcement and fatigue reduction measures were not implemented. The data provide some support for similar road safety measures being effective during both periods. The data also indicate there are some differences between the characteristics of crashes occurring during the holiday period and the remainder of the year."
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Facts, how good are they!
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Yes they hung up on me after telling me what the story was why they weren't allowed to report on it.
There is a heap of things that the news is not allowed to report on. Gateway bridge suicides for example.
Wrong on your point here (above), as well......
There is no conspiracy; embargo; legislation; or any "Rule 303, Sir!" ...that limits the amount of reporting of suicides off bridges - including the Gateway.
Yes, tragically it is true (or at least was true; till they installed jumper-resistant fencing across the bridges) - that the Gateway had a very high suicide incidence.. BUT my understanding is that it is more of an agreement/convention between responsible media and the concerned authorities - that the incidences are not reported widely.
The concern is that the reporting may "normalize and legitimize" suicide....
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Interesting facts and what people have researched etc. Like I said previously, I use to investigate them as a serious crash investigator, or TAIS (Traffic Accident Investigation Squad) as it was originally called in Qld. Wrote a basic serious crash training course for Police and facilitated the training. So I know a little about serious crashes.
I must say I investigated several motor cycle and bicycle fatal incidents and never took possession of the helmets. Not saying there was not research completed on that matter, just do not know where they got the helmets from.
I use to also collate statistics on crashes and you would be amazed how contributing factors are collected and used. Collection of data from crashes has changed over the years to where now there is a lot of factors collected and recorded and that may be part of the problem. Too much data can confuse the real cause. Example, alcohol being a contributing factor. The incident will show yes if any occupant of the vehicle had alcohol consumption, may not be the driver.
Speed, may show yes even if speed did not cause the incident. Did speed contribute to the damage to the vehicle and occupants? May not be recorded but could come out (I say could) at the inquest, if there is one.
So it is very interesting reading what others think and I am enjoying this thread.
We were driving on the Bruce Highway the other late afternoon and saw so many drivers in a hurry and overtaking when we all were, including trucks, sitting on or even a k or 2 over the speed limit and I thought if the powers in charge want to know what is wrong on our roads, ask a truck driver! The things they must see. Kevin
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Unfortunately going by some of the idiots that passed our little convoy coming home on Monday I'm not surprised :(
We had spacing in between our rigs, and we were all on radio to each other, helped a lot. We had for example an idiot L plater in a Pajero come screaming up, run out of road and then slam on his emergency lights to break in between cars :(. Not to mention other near misses we saw :( Just plain scary!
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I sure do.
Several interesting facts are in the document.
The percentage of fatal road accidents that are caused by speed is about 0.85%
Fatalities have increased in almost every state and country where speed cameras have been introduced.
They were unable to find a single country where speed cameras have lowered the death toll.
Speed cameras were recommended for use in QLD in this report because of the revenue they generate. The monetary figures were based on NSW and VIC's current and future revenue figures.
As a researcher one would imagine you could actually research;
Here are road safety stats from Victoria 1976 to 2006;
1976 - RBT introduced. Deaths fell from 938 to 654 pa over 3 yrs.
1983 - Red light cameras. No change.
1986 - mobile speed camera trial. Deaths actually went up over trial period from 670 to 775.
1989 - covert speed cameras introduced. Deaths dropped from 775 to 400 pa over 3yrs.
Deaths PA stayed around the same (400ish) until a rise in 2000 up to 444.
2000 - 50kph urban limit, 50% increase in mobile camera hours of operation and speed tolerances reduced. Drop in deaths PA from 444 to 315 over 3yrs.
2006 - drug testing and vehicle impounding. Deaths dropped to 287 over 4 yrs.
Monash Uni have all the stats and research and are world leaders.
Looking specifically at 1989 and the subsequent reduction from the introduction of covert speed cameras from over 775 deaths per year to 400 per year only one of the following is true;
1. Monash Uni's stats are true
Or
2. Monash uni are lying and there are over 300 dead people unaccounted for that died in fatal accidents somewhere in Vic and Your secret document is true.
Which is it?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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It was actually worse than those ^ numbers would indicate, Daz.
I remember the road toll campaign started with a slogan in "The Sun" newspaper......"Delcare War On 1034".......
A line in the sand was drawn, laws were changed, and compulsory seat belts, speed cameras, RBT's etc came into efect.
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Between 1998 and 2000, the were 4525 fatalities on Qld roads. On average, 15% of fatalities are motorcycles. So for that period you worked there approx 680 motorcycle fatalities for the whole of Qld.
KB
I never said what period the study was done over. ;)
They actually started it a fair bit before I started there.
Since you like your research and have s hard time believing what I used to do for a living. Why not look up the disatation on the helmet study.
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PS I would have sent you a PM but you have blocked me from doing that. My apologies to the rest of the forum that this has yet again been discussed publicly.
Yeah that tends to be what I do when I get personal threats via PM from your croney "Qld Camper'. I tink you are pushing your luck.
'
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As a researcher one would imagine you could actually research;
Here are road safety stats from Victoria 1976 to 2006;
1976 - RBT introduced. Deaths fell from 938 to 654 pa over 3 yrs.
1983 - Red light cameras. No change.
1986 - mobile speed camera trial. Deaths actually went up over trial period from 670 to 775.
1989 - covert speed cameras introduced. Deaths dropped from 775 to 400 pa over 3yrs.
Deaths PA stayed around the same (400ish) until a rise in 2000 up to 444.
2000 - 50kph urban limit, 50% increase in mobile camera hours of operation and speed tolerances reduced. Drop in deaths PA from 444 to 315 over 3yrs.
2006 - drug testing and vehicle impounding. Deaths dropped to 287 over 4 yrs.
Monash Uni have all the stats and research and are world leaders.
Looking specifically at 1989 and the subsequent reduction from the introduction of covert speed cameras from over 775 deaths per year to 400 per year only one of the following is true;
1. Monash Uni's stats are true
Or
2. Monash uni are lying and there are over 300 dead people unaccounted for that died in fatal accidents somewhere in Vic and Your secret document is true.
Which is it?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You can twist my words around any way you like. It does not prove me wrong. The statistics in the report came direct from the coroner's office. Are you saying that they lied to the QLD Parliament?
PS. I wasn't a researcher. I was a lab assistant that setup and performed experiments for the researchers. The egg heads did the number crunching and research.
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Hidden traffic safety cameras in Australia arnt even remotely disguised as anything other than revenue collection, if it wasn't then it would be like in new Zealand where you get a minimum of 10 kph buffer zone for variation plus in new Zealand cops actualy do thier job of policing speeding drivers not contract speed infringement s out to people no more qualified to than the twatt who cooks my big mac.
It's a disgrace and all it does is harms decent people's licenses, jobs and finances for rediculous speed infringements by some wanker operating a speed camera on contract from the govt who's to lazy to get a real job.
If a cop dosn't give me a ticket you can shove it up your arse
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There's an obvious line there bro'..... ;D ;D
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Interesting facts and what people have researched etc. Like I said previously, I use to investigate them as a serious crash investigator, or TAIS (Traffic Accident Investigation Squad) as it was originally called in Qld. Wrote a basic serious crash training course for Police and facilitated the training. So I know a little about serious crashes.
I must say I investigated several motor cycle and bicycle fatal incidents and never took possession of the helmets. Not saying there was not research completed on that matter, just do not know where they got the helmets from.
I use to also collate statistics on crashes and you would be amazed how contributing factors are collected and used. Collection of data from crashes has changed over the years to where now there is a lot of factors collected and recorded and that may be part of the problem. Too much data can confuse the real cause. Example, alcohol being a contributing factor. The incident will show yes if any occupant of the vehicle had alcohol consumption, may not be the driver.
Speed, may show yes even if speed did not cause the incident. Did speed contribute to the damage to the vehicle and occupants? May not be recorded but could come out (I say could) at the inquest, if there is one.
So it is very interesting reading what others think and I am enjoying this thread.
We were driving on the Bruce Highway the other late afternoon and saw so many drivers in a hurry and overtaking when we all were, including trucks, sitting on or even a k or 2 over the speed limit and I thought if the powers in charge want to know what is wrong on our roads, ask a truck driver! The things they must see. Kevin
Finally someone that knows about the subject. :)
We did a lot of different studies and worked a lot with you guys in developing the methods of determining causes of crashes for the QLD police force and numerous international crash investigators.
You probably know John Ruler (sp). He did a hell of a lot of work in our labs as well as us assisting him with his research at the Mt Cotton training centre.
The general public really has no idea of how much work goes into crash investigation and prevention.
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There was actualy a study done on the effects of temporary blindness from speed camera flashes too.
I assume Geoff that my grandfather, his father, and his father before that all being born in balleratt dosn't qualify me to comment on anything australian with out a "go back where you came from"style remark .. probably been more generations of my family here than yours "cobber"
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.. probably been more generations of my family here than yours "cobber"
Do you need a bucket or a hose?
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Mate, you left an opening to drive a truck through...... :-*
It was a sook. You're upset because you can't speed here with impunity....stiff.
If you don't want to get a ticket, then don't speed. Pretty simple, really.
Heritage claims are not relevant here (but I can make some of my own)....
:cheers:
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I believe that the road toll is as high as it is because the police and the government concentrate their efforts on speeding instead of the real causes. Speed is only responsible for less than 1% of fatal accidents. If they were serious about reducing the road toll they would concentrate on the other 99% instead of revenue raising.
Well this is what YOU posted.
YOU are simply and utterly WRONG.
My stats show you are WRONG.
NSW most recent reduction is at the same time they increased the number of roadside cameras markedly. This shows the correlation between speed and fatal collisions.
I am sure there is some conspiracy foil hat wearing website that would welcome your WRONG statements.
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Hidden traffic safety cameras in Australia arnt even remotely disguised as anything other than revenue collection, if it wasn't then it would be like in new Zealand where you get a minimum of 10 kph buffer zone for variation plus in new Zealand cops actualy do thier job of policing speeding drivers not contract speed infringement s out to people no more qualified to than the twatt who cooks my big mac.
It's a disgrace and all it does is harms decent people's licenses, jobs and finances for rediculous speed infringements by some wanker operating a speed camera on contract from the govt who's to lazy to get a real job.
If a cop dosn't give me a ticket you can shove it up your arse
Dales you are welcome to your views though sadly they are wrong. Look at my stats I posted to the conspiriacy theorist and it shows the causations.
See if you can form an argument against the correlations.
(Sounds argumentative but not meant to. The beauty of these stats is they cannot be falsified. "X" number of deaths at the same time as "y" change to enforcement/law - there's the correlation )
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Mate, you left an opening to drive a truck through...... :-*
It was a sook. You're upset because you can't speed here with impunity....stiff.
If you don't want to get a ticket, then don't speed. Pretty simple, really.
Heritage claims are not relevant here (but I can make some of my own)....
:cheers:
What a load of bol?ocks, what i said was... if you read it again is that if some uneducated slob is paid to give me a ticket because the council collecting all the revenue won't spend it on police and thier discretion and i end up with a ticket for being 5k over the speed limit is rediculous. and remember... opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one
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Ok dazz I'm not saying speed cameras don't work.
I'm saying that govt coffers use them to collect revenue and it has nothing to do with the road toll.its finances.
And that year you state and the road toll dosn't realy mean it was the only factor what about weather, amount of newly licence drivers...ect ect
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Well this is what YOU posted.
YOU are simy and utterly WRONG.
My stats show you are WRONG.
NSW most recent reduction is at the same time they increased the number of roadside cameras markedly. This shows the correlation between speed and fatal collisions.
I am sure there is some conspiracy foil hat wearing website that would welcome your WRONG statements.
Im not even close to wrong. If you feel so strongly I suggest you put in a freedom of information request and get a copy of the document.
As has been mentioned before. There are lots of ways to read data. The figures that were obtained came from the people that actually determine the cause of death. Monash university has never been responsible for this as it is the coroner's responsibility.
I really don't give a rats if you believe me or not. At the end of the day I know what I read.
Speed does play a roll in accidents but it is usually only a contributing factor. There are many more factors that go into a finding. For example if someone had 3 times the legal amount of alcohol in his/her system and crashed into another vehicle head on at 130kph whilst on the wrong side of the road. Speed would have played a part in the fatality but it would not be the cause if the accident. If you actually realised what goes into crash investigation you would know this.
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What a load of bol?ocks, what i said was... if you read it again is that if some uneducated slob is paid to give me a ticket because the council collecting all the revenue won't spend it on police and thier discretion and i end up with a ticket for being 5k over the speed limit is rediculous. and remember... opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one
...... ::) ::)
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I have no issue with getting a speeding ticket if I'm speeding,105 in a 100 isn't speeding. It's buying Ted baylous lunch..we'll some other pricks now
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Speed is relative anyway. It is the maximum speed on most Australian motorways and the minimum speed on most German Autobahns. I felt a lot safer at 250kph on the autobahn than I do at 100kph in Australia.
Why? Because Germans receive much better driving instruction and are much safer drivers than most Australians.
I've made sure my kids got the most out of the required 100hrs by not only teaching them to turn left and right (which is all the average 55+ year old driver was ever taught prior to obtaining their licence) I spent a lot of time on crash avoidance techniques well as driver attitude and behaviour. I smile every time that one of their mates says that they don't speed or do skids like most P platers. Both of them can control a highly modified Patrol whilst it is sideways but that skill is only ever used in a emergency situation. I sleep better at night knowing that they have the skillset to keep them as safe as possible on the road.
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I agree with what you said except that the german government build far better roads than the Shit we are expected to drive on.try driving the geelong ring road without getting thrown out of your seat if you can actualy get up enough speed to get past the constant roadworks on a 4 year old hiway.i didn't comment on this way earlier in the piece or recently to be confrontational but yo either accept Australians are morons that can't drive and need to be over regulated or they will kill each other off on the roads and Hitler was right and Germans truly are the master race who never have accidents at any speed or you just see it for what it is... revenue collection
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Yeah Dale. Bad roads are another factor. Even back country roads in Germany are better than a lot of major roads in Australia.
The Autobahns are probably one of the few things Hitler did right. If the Australian governments spent speed camera revenue on better driver training and roads instead of propping up their budgets with it Australia would be a safer place to drive.
I have no issue at all with coppers booking people for speeding as it sends a message.
Copping a fine for driving 5kph over the speed limit two months after the fact is just revenue raising.
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Exactly!
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In fact I've got a mate who's a senior Sargent and has said the same
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I haven't laughed reading a thread so much since the ill fated Mirage RV threads.
Keep up the good work boys & GIRLS ????????????
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
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If you actually realised what goes into crash investigation you would know this.
Here's my quals;
- crash investigations officer
- senior police crash investigation mechanic
- senior police driver trainer
- breath analysis operator
So I actually investigated crashes and was guided by experienced investigators to develop my skills. I disassembled crashed vehicles and reassembled them to work out if they were a factor. I gave evidence before magistrates and coroners court. I was present when magistrates made their decisions. I have done the training in the effects of alcohol and the dynamics of vehicles at speed.
This is why I have called you on this. I know what I am talking about and have the experience to back it up. Others here likewise.
Your scenario demonstrates you don't. In that scenario the contributing factors are;
1. Decreased reaction time, vision, vehicle control and perception due to the influence of alcohol
2. Increase in stopping distance due to excess speed from 160 metres to 230 metres based on a dry road and delayed reaction factor of 4.
Both speed and alcohol are factors. The extent to which the driver was ACTUALLY impaired is fluid. A big drinker will function better than a small drinker though both will be impaired. The vehicle dynamics due to the speed are not.
Seriously, in all the years I was involved in road safety I never ever heard ANYONE involved suggest anything within a bulls roar of your 1% speed statement.
Your 1% speed related statement is wrong and anyone who has spent time researching road safety would know that.
Here is the reality. If you are doing 60 in a 60 zone your stopping distance is 50m. If you are going 10 over that at 70 the stopping distance is 62m. If the collision is frontal then that extended stopping distance will, in most circumstances, be a causational factor. 12m is 3 car lengths.
I am very passionate about garbage being sprouted about traffic enforcement measures as it reinforces and justifies poor behaviour that results in lives being destroyed.
Speed is NOT the only reason for serious crashes but is highly representative.
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I have no issue at all with coppers booking people for speeding as it sends a message.
Copping a fine for driving 5kph over the speed limit two months after the fact is just revenue raising.
Really? Surely you would have come across the research that speed cameras DETER speeding because you don't know where they are and have no chance of getting let off.
This results in less motorists speeding and the resultant reduction in fatalities as explained earlier.
Time to come clean with us. You drive the research bus didn't you? Bought the coffee? Come on be honest.
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.........
I am very passionate about garbage being sprouted about traffic enforcement measures as it reinforces and justifies poor behaviour that results in lives being destroyed.
Speed is NOT the only reason for serious crashes but is highly representative.
:cup: :cup:
....in a nut shell....
Good post dazz
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So what's the new Zealand statistical comparison given they have a larger margin in acceptable speed?
One thing I will tell you is everyone in nz drives between 1k an 10k of the signposted speed limit because it's the unwritten law.
If you go 1k over that your busted.
Stationary speed cameras won't give tickets under 10k over nor will cop car based ones.no demerit points are taken by speed camera infringements because that would involve having to prove who the driver was by the courts (yes in nz your still innocent until proven guilty unlike the opersition here and the road toll there is far less per capita.
And as I said you havnt explained Germany yet
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I'm not opposed to any measures that make roads safer but I can smell bullShit a mile away. It's the same as federal government blaming smokers for the woes of the world but if they all gave up tomorrow they would be handing out free smokes to kids because thier coffers were broken
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Here's my quals;
- crash investigations officer
- senior police crash investigation mechanic
- senior police driver trainer
- breath analysis operator
So I actually investigated crashes and was guided by experienced investigators to develop my skills. I disassembled crashed vehicles and reassembled them to work out if they were a factor. I gave evidence before magistrates and coroners court. I was present when magistrates made their decisions. I have done the training in the effects of alcohol and the dynamics of vehicles at speed.
This is why I have called you on this. I know what I am talking about and have the experience to back it up. Others here likewise.
Your scenario demonstrates you don't. In that scenario the contributing factors are;
1. Decreased reaction time, vision, vehicle control and perception due to the influence of alcohol
2. Increase in stopping distance due to excess speed from 160 metres to 230 metres based on a dry road and delayed reaction factor of 4.
Both speed and alcohol are factors. The extent to which the driver was ACTUALLY impaired is fluid. A big drinker will function better than a small drinker though both will be impaired. The vehicle dynamics due to the speed are not.
Seriously, in all the years I was involved in road safety I never ever heard ANYONE involved suggest anything within a bulls roar of your 1% speed statement.
Your 1% speed related statement is wrong and anyone who has spent time researching road safety would know that.
Here is the reality. If you are doing 60 in a 60 zone your stopping distance is 50m. If you are going 10 over that at 70 the stopping distance is 62m. If the collision is frontal then that extended stopping distance will, in most circumstances, be a causational factor. 12m is 3 car lengths.
I am very passionate about garbage being sprouted about traffic enforcement measures as it reinforces and justifies poor behaviour that results in lives being destroyed.
Speed is NOT the only reason for serious crashes but is highly representative.
Sorry. I though I was responding to someone else. For that I humbly apologise.
What I was referring to was that if someone was heavily impaired by a large amount of alcohol and veered onto the wrong side of the road due to impairment causing a accident. The alcohol would be the cause of the accident and the speed would be a contributing factor in how severe the crash was.
I know that there are heaps of other factors involved. This was a simplified example. Same result if someone passed out drunk at speed behind the wheel. Alcohol would be a larger contributer to the cause of the accident than speed. Speed would still end up in the statistics and therefore contribute to the false claims.
I don't doubt your ability to investigate accidents as I have been involved in proving the techniques you use work by setting up scenarios and actually crashing vehicles into each other as well as into pedestrians and cyclists. (I was the lucky one that got to push the sargents car up to speed, sending him crashing into other vehicles in head on, side on and rear impacts at Mt Cotton. :))
Like I said. The document exists. I have nothing to gain whatsoever in lying about it.
Parliamentary Travel Safe committee report into the introduction of speed cameras in QLD. Get a copy. Read it then call me out if im lying.
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Really? Surely you would have come across the research that speed cameras DETER speeding because you don't know where they are and have no chance of getting let off.
This results in less motorists speeding and the resultant reduction in fatalities as explained earlier.
Time to come clean with us. You drive the research bus didn't you? Bought the coffee? Come on be honest.
As I said. I used to setup the tests and was involved in the actual testing as someone that was nata certified to measure test results including operating a skid resistance tester amongst many other test apparatus. I didn't do the research. That was for the egg heads.
I wasn't a academic in those days. That came later in my career and in a different field of study. (IT)
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And yes I am aware that speed cameras deter speeding. It doesn't mean that the qld government didn't introduce them as a revenue raising exercise. I don't speed these days anyway. I pay enough attention to the road to be able to pick speed cameras in QLD easily. It was being pulled over by a few (ok. Several) cops that made me change my ways and consciously not speed. I believe that coppers on the ground is the best way of making people drive more responsibly. I am all for more drug and alcohol testing and wouldn't mind if I was pulled up and tested every day as police presence works in deterring the idiots or gets them off the road completely. I've got nothing against cops. It's the government's misuse of resources that I have issues with. Spend money on more cops not cameras.
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On a similar topic, I think the new TAC road safety commercials are marketing genius. We have become desensitised to the gore/shock based commercials. Connecting driving to your children is very powerful and emotive. Some ad exec has done well.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-08/dangerous-driving-parents-targetted-in-road-safety-campaign/6377700 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-08/dangerous-driving-parents-targetted-in-road-safety-campaign/6377700)
Oh and some facts :)
Facts about Victoria's young drivers
•24 drivers aged between 18-25 killed in 2014
•75 per cent were males
•71 per cent were killed on country roads
•63 per cent were killed in single vehicle crashes
•75 per cent were involved in crashes that occurred during high alcohol times
•67 per cent of deaths occurred on 100km/h signposted roads
Source: TAC
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I believe that coppers on the ground is the best way of making people drive more responsibly. I am all for more drug and alcohol testing and wouldn't mind if I was pulled up and tested every day as police presence works in deterring the idiots or gets them off the road completely. I've got nothing against cops. It's the government's misuse of resources that I have issues with. Spend money on more cops not cameras.
BINGO :cup:
Unfortunately it will never go back to those days. Work Place Health and Safety made it more difficult to set up hand held radar sites on roads, especially highways. And the design of highways also makes it difficult as they usually raise the road and leave very little room to safely pull a vehicle over. But the old days of stopping a vehicle, talking to the driver and doing several checks on the driver and the vehicle achieved a lot more than a speed camera does. You could even issue a caution rather than an infringement notice! And for the smart ar***s that would get a ticket and then drive off at a rate of knots, having another officer sitting up the road would help to modify their behaviour. We are pretty bad as drivers when you travel overseas and see others, except NZ. I was so sick of having a car almost sitting in my back seat because I was driving on or a little over the speed limit. >:( Kevin
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Try not to think of speed cameras as the only bullet in the gun.
Traffic cops are out there doing what they do. IMO there should be way more police motorcyclists out there hitting the other just as important stuff like phones, seat belts, red lights etc.
Plus they see self funding. Each year I was on the bikes my wages and bike lease were covered by fines and court appearances.
When it comes to revenue raising arguments there is not doubt governments love it. Like pokie machine and cigarettes its s cash cow.
The people can easily starve it to death if they choose.
Keep in mind that the cost to the community of a single fatality was estimated in the 90's to be over $500,000 in lost taxs and all the other stuff economists use. So every life saved is money saved.
Now here is the big question. Putting aside remote rural roads where fatigue is an issue and travelling safely at higher speeds may be beneficial, what negatives are there for all motorists complying with the speed limit?
Interested in answers to that one.
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I don't see any negatives in everyone complying with the speed limit. Expecially in 50 zones. I also wish that people would comply with the sticking to the left lane rule on multi lane roads.
As for motorcycle cops. I think the new undercover bikes are the best idea the QPS has come up with in years.