Road Toll

[KingBilly]

It's not a public document.  You don't have access to such sensitive information.
You would have to apply for it under the freedom to information act.

Bullsh!t.  If it was tabled in Parliament, as you said, it is a public document

KB

[KingBilly]

Yes they hung up on me after telling me what the story was why they weren't allowed to report on it.

There is a heap of things that the news is not allowed to report on. Gateway bridge suicides for example.  It has the highest suicide rate of any bridge in the southern hemisphere but the general public will never read about it.

More rubbish.  Yes, there were jumpers but the Story Bridge had, and still has, a far worse record.  The Gateway Bridge is now fenced to prevent climbers.  Have a look next time you drive across.

KB

[skegbudley]

I stopped working there 15 years ago. Years before the name change.  Its not a conspiracy.  They have 3 sets of figures to work with.  If you ever had access to high level documents you would know this.

If you really want to find out.  I would try the coroner's office. They are the ones with the real figures.  Im not going back to there. Reading 2000 death reports from fatal motorcycle accidents still gives me nightmares today. Having to dispose of all their helmets after the testing didn't help either.

[KingBilly]

I stopped working there 15 years ago. Years before the name change.  Its not a conspiracy.  They have 3 sets of figures to work with.  If you ever had access to high level documents you would know this.

If you really want to find out.  I would try the coroner's office. They are the ones with the real figures.  Im not going back to there. Reading 2000 death reports from fatal motorcycle accidents still gives me nightmares today. Having to dispose of all their helmets after the testing didn't help either.

As you would know CARRS-Q was only founded in 1996 but you are telling us that you read 2000 fatal motorcycle death reports in 4 years.  I call bullsh!t again

KB

[Tim - Stratford]

Having to dispose of all their helmets after the testing didn't help either.

In all the motorcycle fatals I've attended the helmet never once went with the deceased.

[skegbudley]

In all the motorcycle fatals I've attended the helmet never once went with the deceased.

Yeah mate.
We had a research program running over many years that looked at fatal motorcycle accidents.  We were given over a thousand helmets during this period to test.  They also included horse riding and push bike helmets a side study.  it was not very pleasant research at all.

[skegbudley]

As you would know CARRS-Q was only founded in 1996 but you are telling us that you read 2000 fatal motorcycle death reports in 4 years.  I call bullsh!t again

KB

I worked at QUT from 1988 until 2000.
Back then it was called the Road Research Centre.
It was run by Professor Rod Troutbeck.

bs squashed. 

[KingBilly]

Yeah mate.
We had a research program running over many years that looked at fatal motorcycle accidents.  We were given over a thousand helmets during this period to test.  They also included horse riding and push bike helmets a side study.  it was not very pleasant research at all.

Between 1998 and 2000, the were 4525 fatalities on Qld roads.  On average, 15% of fatalities are motorcycles.  So for that period you worked there approx 680 motorcycle fatalities for the whole of Qld.

KB

[Footy Shorts Shane]

KB, are you bored? You seem to be doing a lot of research today

[Marschy]

Has anyone read this book. It's has a very similar theme to this thread.

[KingBilly]

Has anyone read this book. It's has a very similar theme to this thread.

Wondered when you would add your two cents worth Marschy.  Still got some sh!t on your liver.   Mate, seriously, get over it and move on.  I am getting a bit sick of you having a crack at me all the time.

KB

PS I would have sent you a PM but you have blocked me from doing that.  My apologies to the rest of the forum that this has yet again been discussed publicly.

[KingBilly]

KB, are you bored? You seem to be doing a lot of research today

Bored silly mate.  But bit over it all now.  Might go have a little nap 

KB

[BigJules]

Few seemed to have addressed the issue the OP raises - are road fatalities any worse during holiday periods when corrected for vehicle movements?

I have a philosophical objection to the emphasis placed on speed control - as another poster mentioned road related deaths are not even close to being a leading cause of death in this country. Twice as many Australians die by suicide year than die on our roads, and the focus and level of resources put towards these two issues would be inversely proportional. You are more likely to get a speeding ticket trying get to some mental health support than you are getting any actual support. And let me be clear, my beef is not with the police, who do as they are directed to do by their political masters, my beef is with the way resources are allocated.

Death is a tragedy in most instances, no more so on a road than by a noose, a knife, a gun, cancer, cholesterol or domestic violence.

[Swannie]

C'mon  Gents, settle it down again, another thread going off the rails

Swannie

[Footy Shorts Shane]

Bored silly mate.  But bit over it all now.  Might go have a little nap 

KB

Sometimes it's better to smile and nod. 

[tk421]

Few seemed to have addressed the issue the OP raises - are road fatalities any worse during holiday periods when corrected for vehicle movements?

Ok found a publication from Australian Transport Safety Bureau, 2004. https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2004/pdf/Safety_Aust.pdf

Chapter 8. p63. it states:

"There is clearly no significant difference in the daily death rate between the holiday period and the non-holiday periods. The number of deaths during the holiday period has followed a similar trend to that of the non-holiday periods. However, what cannot be known is the ‘counterfactual’ of how much worse the holiday death rate would be if additional enforcement and fatigue reduction measures were not implemented. The data provide some support for similar road safety measures being effective during both periods. The data also indicate there are some differences between the characteristics of crashes occurring during the holiday period and the remainder of the year."

[BigJules]

Facts, how good are they!

[BaseCamp]

Yes they hung up on me after telling me what the story was why they weren't allowed to report on it.

There is a heap of things that the news is not allowed to report on. Gateway bridge suicides for example.



Wrong on your point here (above), as well......

There is no conspiracy; embargo; legislation; or any "Rule 303, Sir!" ...that limits the amount of reporting of suicides off bridges - including the Gateway.

Yes, tragically it is true (or at least was true; till they installed jumper-resistant fencing across the bridges) - that the Gateway had a very high suicide incidence..  BUT my understanding is that it is more of an agreement/convention between responsible media and the concerned authorities - that the incidences are not reported widely.

The concern is that the reporting may "normalize and legitimize" suicide....   

   

[krisandkev]

Interesting facts and what people have researched etc.  Like I said previously, I use to investigate them as a serious crash investigator, or TAIS (Traffic Accident Investigation Squad) as it was originally called in Qld. Wrote a basic serious crash training course for Police and facilitated the training.  So I know a little about serious crashes.
I must say I investigated several motor cycle and bicycle fatal incidents and never took possession of the helmets.  Not saying there was not research completed on that matter, just do not know where they got the helmets from.
I use to also collate statistics on crashes and you would be amazed how contributing factors are collected and used.   Collection of data from crashes has changed over the years to where now there is a lot of factors collected and recorded and that may be part of the problem.  Too much data can confuse the real cause.  Example, alcohol being a contributing factor.  The incident will show yes if any occupant of the vehicle had alcohol consumption, may not be the driver.
Speed, may show yes even if speed did not cause the incident.  Did speed contribute to the damage to the vehicle and occupants? May not be recorded but could come out (I say could) at the inquest, if there is one. 
So it is very interesting reading what others think and I am enjoying this thread. 
We were driving on the Bruce Highway the other late afternoon and saw so many drivers in a hurry and overtaking when we all were, including trucks, sitting on or even a k or 2 over the speed limit and I thought if the powers in charge want to know what is wrong on our roads, ask a truck driver!  The things they must see.    Kevin

[Ozsnowman]

Unfortunately going by some of the idiots that passed our little convoy coming home on Monday I'm not surprised

We had spacing in between our rigs, and we were all on radio to each other, helped a lot. We had for example an idiot L plater in a Pajero come screaming up, run out of road and then slam on his emergency lights to break in between cars . Not to mention other near misses we saw Just plain scary!

[dazzler]

I sure do.

Several interesting facts are in the document.
The percentage of fatal road accidents that are caused by speed is about 0.85%
Fatalities have increased in almost every state and country where speed cameras have been introduced.
They were unable to find a single country where speed cameras have lowered the death toll.
Speed cameras were recommended for use in QLD in this report because of the revenue they generate. The monetary figures were based on NSW and VIC's current and future revenue figures.

As a researcher one would imagine you could actually research;

Here are road safety stats from Victoria 1976 to 2006;

1976 - RBT introduced. Deaths fell from 938 to 654 pa over 3 yrs.

1983 - Red light cameras. No change.

1986 - mobile speed camera trial. Deaths actually went up over trial period from 670 to 775.

1989 - covert speed cameras introduced. Deaths dropped from 775 to 400 pa over 3yrs.

Deaths PA stayed around the same (400ish) until a rise in 2000 up to 444.

2000 - 50kph urban limit, 50% increase in mobile camera hours of operation and speed tolerances reduced. Drop in deaths PA from 444 to 315 over  3yrs.

2006 - drug testing and vehicle impounding. Deaths dropped to 287 over 4 yrs.

Monash Uni have all the stats and research and are world leaders.

Looking specifically at 1989 and the subsequent reduction from the introduction of covert speed cameras from over 775 deaths per year to 400 per year only one of the following is true;

1. Monash Uni's stats are true

Or

2. Monash uni are lying and there are over 300 dead people unaccounted for that died in fatal accidents somewhere in Vic and Your secret document is true.

Which is it?


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[GeoffA]

It was actually worse than those ^ numbers would indicate, Daz.

I remember the road toll campaign started with a slogan in "The Sun" newspaper......"Delcare War On 1034".......

A line in the sand was drawn, laws were changed, and compulsory seat belts, speed cameras, RBT's etc came into efect.

[skegbudley]

Between 1998 and 2000, the were 4525 fatalities on Qld roads.  On average, 15% of fatalities are motorcycles.  So for that period you worked there approx 680 motorcycle fatalities for the whole of Qld.

KB

I never said what period the study was done over.
They actually started it a fair bit before I started there. 
Since you like your research and have s hard time believing what I used to do for a living.  Why not look up the disatation on the helmet study.

[Marschy]

PS I would have sent you a PM but you have blocked me from doing that.  My apologies to the rest of the forum that this has yet again been discussed publicly.

Yeah that tends to be what I do when I get personal threats via PM from your croney "Qld Camper'. I tink you are pushing your luck.
'

[skegbudley]

As a researcher one would imagine you could actually research;

Here are road safety stats from Victoria 1976 to 2006;

1976 - RBT introduced. Deaths fell from 938 to 654 pa over 3 yrs.

1983 - Red light cameras. No change.

1986 - mobile speed camera trial. Deaths actually went up over trial period from 670 to 775.

1989 - covert speed cameras introduced. Deaths dropped from 775 to 400 pa over 3yrs.

Deaths PA stayed around the same (400ish) until a rise in 2000 up to 444.

2000 - 50kph urban limit, 50% increase in mobile camera hours of operation and speed tolerances reduced. Drop in deaths PA from 444 to 315 over  3yrs.

2006 - drug testing and vehicle impounding. Deaths dropped to 287 over 4 yrs.

Monash Uni have all the stats and research and are world leaders.

Looking specifically at 1989 and the subsequent reduction from the introduction of covert speed cameras from over 775 deaths per year to 400 per year only one of the following is true;

1. Monash Uni's stats are true

Or

2. Monash uni are lying and there are over 300 dead people unaccounted for that died in fatal accidents somewhere in Vic and Your secret document is true.

Which is it?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You can twist my words around any way you like.  It does not prove me wrong. The statistics in the report came direct from the coroner's office.  Are you saying that they lied to the QLD Parliament?

PS. I wasn't a researcher.  I was a lab assistant that setup and performed experiments for the researchers.  The egg heads did the number crunching and research.