Road Toll

[dales133]

Hidden traffic safety cameras in Australia arnt even remotely disguised as anything other than revenue collection, if it wasn't then it would be like in new Zealand where you get a minimum of 10 kph buffer zone for variation plus in new Zealand cops actualy do thier job of policing speeding drivers not contract speed infringement s out to people no more qualified to than the twatt who cooks my big mac.
It's a disgrace and all it does is harms decent people's licenses, jobs and finances for rediculous speed infringements by some wanker operating a speed camera on contract from the govt who's to lazy to get a real job.
If a cop dosn't give me a ticket you can shove it up your arse

[GeoffA]

There's an obvious line there bro'.....

[skegbudley]

Interesting facts and what people have researched etc.  Like I said previously, I use to investigate them as a serious crash investigator, or TAIS (Traffic Accident Investigation Squad) as it was originally called in Qld. Wrote a basic serious crash training course for Police and facilitated the training.  So I know a little about serious crashes.
I must say I investigated several motor cycle and bicycle fatal incidents and never took possession of the helmets.  Not saying there was not research completed on that matter, just do not know where they got the helmets from.
I use to also collate statistics on crashes and you would be amazed how contributing factors are collected and used.   Collection of data from crashes has changed over the years to where now there is a lot of factors collected and recorded and that may be part of the problem.  Too much data can confuse the real cause.  Example, alcohol being a contributing factor.  The incident will show yes if any occupant of the vehicle had alcohol consumption, may not be the driver.
Speed, may show yes even if speed did not cause the incident.  Did speed contribute to the damage to the vehicle and occupants? May not be recorded but could come out (I say could) at the inquest, if there is one. 
So it is very interesting reading what others think and I am enjoying this thread. 
We were driving on the Bruce Highway the other late afternoon and saw so many drivers in a hurry and overtaking when we all were, including trucks, sitting on or even a k or 2 over the speed limit and I thought if the powers in charge want to know what is wrong on our roads, ask a truck driver!  The things they must see.    Kevin

Finally someone that knows about the subject. 

We did a lot of different studies and worked a lot with you guys in developing the methods of determining causes of crashes for the QLD police force and numerous international crash investigators.
You probably know John Ruler (sp). He did a hell of a lot of work in our labs as well as us assisting him with his research at the Mt Cotton training centre.

The general public really has no idea of how much work goes into crash investigation and prevention.

[dales133]

There was actualy a study done on the effects of temporary blindness from speed camera flashes too.
I assume Geoff that my grandfather, his father, and his father before that all being born in balleratt dosn't qualify me to comment on anything australian with out a "go back where you came from"style remark .. probably been more generations of my family here than yours "cobber"

[D4D]

.. probably been more generations of my family here than yours "cobber"

Do you need a bucket or a hose?

[GeoffA]

Mate, you left an opening to drive a truck through......

It was a sook. You're upset because you can't speed here with impunity....stiff.
If you don't want to get a ticket, then don't speed. Pretty simple, really.

Heritage claims are not relevant here (but I can make some of my own)....

 

[dazzler]

I believe that the road toll is as high as it is because the police and the government concentrate their efforts on speeding instead of the real causes.  Speed is only responsible for less than 1% of fatal accidents. If they were serious about reducing the road toll they would concentrate on the other 99% instead of revenue raising.

Well this is what YOU posted.

YOU are simply and utterly WRONG.

My stats show you are WRONG.

NSW most recent reduction is at the same time they increased the number of roadside cameras markedly.   This shows the correlation between speed and fatal collisions.

I am sure there is some conspiracy foil hat wearing website that would welcome your  WRONG statements.

[dazzler]

Hidden traffic safety cameras in Australia arnt even remotely disguised as anything other than revenue collection, if it wasn't then it would be like in new Zealand where you get a minimum of 10 kph buffer zone for variation plus in new Zealand cops actualy do thier job of policing speeding drivers not contract speed infringement s out to people no more qualified to than the twatt who cooks my big mac.
It's a disgrace and all it does is harms decent people's licenses, jobs and finances for rediculous speed infringements by some wanker operating a speed camera on contract from the govt who's to lazy to get a real job.
If a cop dosn't give me a ticket you can shove it up your arse

Dales you are welcome to your views though sadly they are wrong. Look at my stats I posted to the conspiriacy theorist and it shows the causations.

See if you can form an argument against the correlations.

(Sounds argumentative but not meant to.  The beauty of these stats is they cannot be falsified. "X" number of deaths at the same time as "y" change to enforcement/law - there's the correlation )

[dales133]

Mate, you left an opening to drive a truck through......

It was a sook. You're upset because you can't speed here with impunity....stiff.
If you don't want to get a ticket, then don't speed. Pretty simple, really.

Heritage claims are not relevant here (but I can make some of my own)....

 

What a load of bol?ocks,  what i said was... if you read it again is that if some uneducated slob is paid to give me a ticket because the council collecting all the revenue won't spend it on police and thier discretion and i end up with a ticket for being 5k over the speed limit is rediculous. and remember... opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one

[dales133]

Ok dazz I'm not saying speed cameras don't work.
I'm saying that govt coffers use them to collect revenue and it has nothing to do with the road toll.its finances.
And that year you state and the road toll dosn't realy mean it was the only factor  what about weather,  amount of newly licence drivers...ect ect

[skegbudley]

Well this is what YOU posted.

YOU are simy and utterly WRONG.

My stats show you are WRONG.

NSW most recent reduction is at the same time they increased the number of roadside cameras markedly.   This shows the correlation between speed and fatal collisions.

I am sure there is some conspiracy foil hat wearing website that would welcome your  WRONG statements.

Im not even close to wrong.  If you feel so strongly I suggest you put in a freedom of information request and get a copy of the document. 

As has been mentioned before.  There are lots of ways to read data. The figures that were obtained came from the people that actually determine the cause of death.  Monash university has never been responsible for this as it is the coroner's responsibility.

I really don't give a rats if you believe me or not.  At the end of the day I know what I read.

Speed does play a roll in accidents but it is usually only a contributing factor.  There are many more factors that go into a finding. For example if someone had 3 times the legal amount of alcohol in his/her system and crashed into another vehicle head on at 130kph whilst on the wrong side of the road.  Speed would have played a part in the fatality but it would not be the cause if the accident. If you actually realised what goes into crash investigation you would know this. 

[GeoffA]

What a load of bol?ocks,  what i said was... if you read it again is that if some uneducated slob is paid to give me a ticket because the council collecting all the revenue won't spend it on police and thier discretion and i end up with a ticket for being 5k over the speed limit is rediculous. and remember... opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one

......

[dales133]

I have no issue with getting a speeding ticket if I'm speeding,105 in a 100 isn't speeding. It's buying Ted baylous lunch..we'll some other pricks now

[skegbudley]

Speed is relative anyway.  It is the maximum speed on most Australian motorways and the minimum speed on most German Autobahns.  I felt a lot safer at 250kph on the autobahn than I do at 100kph in Australia.
Why?  Because Germans receive much better driving instruction and are much safer drivers than most Australians.
I've made sure my kids got the most out of the required 100hrs by not only teaching them to turn left and right (which is all the average 55+ year old driver was ever taught prior to obtaining their licence) I spent a lot of time on crash avoidance techniques well as driver attitude and behaviour.  I smile every time that one of their mates says that they don't speed or do skids like most P platers.  Both of them can control a highly modified Patrol whilst it is sideways but that skill is only ever used in a emergency situation.  I sleep better at night knowing that they have the skillset to keep them as safe as possible on the road.

[dales133]

I agree with what you said except that the german government build far better roads than the Shit we are expected to drive on.try driving the geelong ring road without getting thrown out of your seat if you can actualy get up enough speed to get past the constant roadworks on a 4 year old hiway.i didn't comment on this way earlier in the piece or recently to be confrontational but yo either accept Australians are morons that can't drive and need to be over regulated or they will kill each other off on the roads and Hitler was right and Germans truly are the master race who never have accidents at any speed or you just see it for what it is... revenue collection

[skegbudley]

Yeah Dale.  Bad roads are another factor.  Even back country roads in Germany are better than a lot of major roads in Australia.
The Autobahns are probably one of the few things Hitler did right. If the Australian governments spent speed camera revenue on better driver training and roads instead of propping up their budgets with it Australia would be a safer place to drive.

I have no issue at all with coppers booking people for speeding as it sends a message.
Copping a fine for driving 5kph over the speed limit two months after the fact is just revenue raising. 

[dales133]

Exactly!

[dales133]

In fact I've got a mate who's a senior Sargent and has said the same

[Moggy]

I haven't laughed reading a thread so much since the ill fated Mirage RV threads.
Keep up the good work boys & GIRLS

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[dazzler]

If you actually realised what goes into crash investigation you would know this.

Here's my quals;

- crash investigations officer
- senior police  crash investigation mechanic
- senior police driver trainer
- breath analysis operator

So I actually investigated crashes and was guided by experienced investigators to develop my skills. I disassembled crashed vehicles and reassembled them to work out  if they were a factor. I gave evidence before magistrates and coroners court. I was present when magistrates made their decisions. I have done the training in the effects of alcohol and the dynamics of vehicles at speed.

This is why I have called you on this. I know what I am talking about and have the experience to back it up.  Others here likewise.

Your scenario demonstrates you don't.  In that scenario the contributing factors are;

1.  Decreased reaction time, vision, vehicle control and perception due to the influence of alcohol

2. Increase in stopping distance due to excess speed from 160 metres to 230 metres based on a dry road and delayed reaction factor of 4.

Both speed and alcohol are factors.  The extent to which the driver was ACTUALLY impaired is fluid. A big drinker will function better than a small drinker though both will be impaired. The vehicle dynamics due to the speed are not.

Seriously, in all the years I was involved in road safety I never ever heard ANYONE involved suggest anything within a bulls roar of your 1% speed statement.

Your 1% speed related statement is wrong and anyone who has spent time researching road safety would know that.

Here is the reality. If you are doing 60 in a 60 zone your stopping distance is 50m. If you are going 10 over that at 70 the stopping distance is 62m. If the collision is frontal then that extended stopping distance will, in most circumstances, be a causational factor. 12m is 3 car lengths.

I am very passionate about garbage being sprouted about traffic enforcement measures as it reinforces and justifies poor behaviour that results in lives being destroyed.   

Speed is NOT the only reason for serious crashes but is highly representative.

[dazzler]

I have no issue at all with coppers booking people for speeding as it sends a message.
Copping a fine for driving 5kph over the speed limit two months after the fact is just revenue raising.

Really?  Surely you would have come across the research that speed cameras DETER speeding because you don't know where they are and have no chance of getting let off.

This results in less motorists speeding and the resultant reduction in fatalities as explained earlier.

Time to come clean with us. You drive the research bus didn't you?  Bought the coffee?  Come on be honest.

[GeoffA]

.........
I am very passionate about garbage being sprouted about traffic enforcement measures as it reinforces and justifies poor behaviour that results in lives being destroyed.   

Speed is NOT the only reason for serious crashes but is highly representative.

 

....in a nut shell....

Good post dazz

[dales133]

So what's the new Zealand statistical comparison given they have a larger margin in acceptable speed?
One thing I will tell you is everyone in nz drives between 1k an 10k of the signposted speed limit because it's the unwritten law.
If you go 1k over that your busted.
Stationary speed cameras won't give tickets under 10k over nor will cop car based ones.no demerit points are taken by speed camera infringements because that would involve having to prove who the driver was by the courts (yes in nz your still innocent until proven guilty unlike the opersition here and the road toll there is far less per capita.
And as I said you havnt explained Germany yet

[dales133]

I'm not opposed to any measures that make roads safer but I can smell bullShit a mile away. It's the same as federal government blaming smokers for the woes of the world but if they all gave up tomorrow they would be handing out free smokes to kids because thier coffers were broken

[skegbudley]

Here's my quals;

- crash investigations officer
- senior police  crash investigation mechanic
- senior police driver trainer
- breath analysis operator

So I actually investigated crashes and was guided by experienced investigators to develop my skills. I disassembled crashed vehicles and reassembled them to work out  if they were a factor. I gave evidence before magistrates and coroners court. I was present when magistrates made their decisions. I have done the training in the effects of alcohol and the dynamics of vehicles at speed.

This is why I have called you on this. I know what I am talking about and have the experience to back it up.  Others here likewise.

Your scenario demonstrates you don't.  In that scenario the contributing factors are;

1.  Decreased reaction time, vision, vehicle control and perception due to the influence of alcohol

2. Increase in stopping distance due to excess speed from 160 metres to 230 metres based on a dry road and delayed reaction factor of 4.

Both speed and alcohol are factors.  The extent to which the driver was ACTUALLY impaired is fluid. A big drinker will function better than a small drinker though both will be impaired. The vehicle dynamics due to the speed are not.

Seriously, in all the years I was involved in road safety I never ever heard ANYONE involved suggest anything within a bulls roar of your 1% speed statement.

Your 1% speed related statement is wrong and anyone who has spent time researching road safety would know that.

Here is the reality. If you are doing 60 in a 60 zone your stopping distance is 50m. If you are going 10 over that at 70 the stopping distance is 62m. If the collision is frontal then that extended stopping distance will, in most circumstances, be a causational factor. 12m is 3 car lengths.

I am very passionate about garbage being sprouted about traffic enforcement measures as it reinforces and justifies poor behaviour that results in lives being destroyed.   

Speed is NOT the only reason for serious crashes but is highly representative.

Sorry.  I though I was responding to someone else. For that I humbly apologise.

What I was referring to was that if someone was heavily impaired by a large amount of alcohol and veered onto the wrong side of the road due to impairment causing a accident.  The alcohol would be the cause of the accident and the speed would be a contributing factor in how severe the crash was.
I know that there are heaps of other factors involved.  This was a simplified example.  Same result if someone passed out drunk at speed behind the wheel.  Alcohol would be a larger contributer to the cause of the accident than speed. Speed would still end up in the statistics and therefore contribute to the false claims.

I don't doubt your ability to investigate accidents as I have been involved in proving the techniques you use work by setting up scenarios and actually crashing vehicles into each other as well as into pedestrians and cyclists. (I was the lucky one that got to push the sargents car up to speed, sending him crashing into other vehicles in head on, side on and rear impacts at Mt Cotton. )

Like I said.  The document exists. I have nothing to gain whatsoever in lying about it. 
Parliamentary Travel Safe committee report into the introduction of speed cameras in QLD.  Get a copy.  Read it then call me out if im lying.