Is 4wd getting too expensive !!

[dazzler]

Im hopefully going to try and get into 4 wheel driving on the cheap. well try to.

Unless someone can find a flaw in my plan (there is probably many).

My plan is to buy a small 4wd, probably something like a Daihatsu Feroza or Rocky (the ferozas are cheaper though).
My theory is, they are not a complicated vehicle, no fancy electronics, worst case scenario an engine wont cost me $10k to replace, and i can do alot of work on it myself.
Plus its small, so easy as a everyday car, and wont be silly on petrol.
Even though I have a wife and child she is not interested at all in going 4wding, so most of the time its going to be me travelling solo, or as a group trip with mates.

If all this goes to plan and I do enjoy myself off road, the current Forester comes off lease in about 3 years, so the though then is to change over vehicles, and get a new lease on something like a prado or similar.

Coil sprung Suzuki Sierra?  You can get them in a LWB version too.

If you are a masochist you could get a lada niva  .  Best off roader around just as reliable as a a lada is.LOL

Ferosa from memory is IFS.  Rockies came with Leaf spring front though I thought at some stage there was a wide body one that may have had coils.  Memory fading with age.

Daihatsu very reliable.

[Beachman]

. That said I kicked off a long time ago with a SWB Land Rover ute and my bet is the SX4 with a lift kit and serious offroad tyres would eat it for breakfast, apart from deep water crossings. The Suzi has bugger all overhangs and that would give LWB stuff a serious run for their money and you can't beat light weight in sand as I know from my Suby L Series days. .

After reading your post the curiosity got the better of me and had to Google what a SX4 is. Looks very nice, but for us there is no way we can get our family of 4 in along with our supplies to be self-sufficient and tow our camper trailer to places like Fraser Island for a week.

But each to their own as all our needs are differnet.

[ozbogwam]

Grew up with LJ50s myself, and they were magic offroad, but it ended there. They could go over anything, and get up anything, but you can't carry more than a sleeping bag and a small tent, and expect tractors to overtake you on the open road. Some of the smaller vehicles are simply magic off-road, and if you don't mind the comfort of a small 4wd (none), then that's a bonus! Not bashing them, but when you buy a beetle, don't expect a rolls royce.

We used to do camping trips in them as a family if four. All around the Flinders and Fraser Island. My bother and I used to sit in the back in a big trunk full of all the camping gear.

[ozbogwam]

Coil sprung Suzuki Sierra?  You can get them in a LWB version too.

If you are a masochist you could get a lada niva  .  Best off roader around just as reliable as a a lada is.LOL

Ferosa from memory is IFS.  Rockies came with Leaf spring front though I thought at some stage there was a wide body one that may have had coils.  Memory fading with age.

Daihatsu very reliable.

Can't get the LWB Sierra with coils, wouldn't bother with coils in them anyway. My old LWB Sierra rode beautifully with leaves. Travelled all over Vic, Flinders Ranges, innamincka, Coongie, high Country etc

Awesome cheap, reliable and capable 4wds

[Jasman]

Hey, out of interest I wanted to compare how the costs of 4wd's had changed over time and when I thought about it I realised it was probably quite easy to do because of one simple vehicle being the base model Landcruiser ute which other than mechanical/electrical updates shares a lot of commonality with it ancestors. 

For the sake of comparison I looked at 1990 model and compared it to a 2014 model:

Price when new
1990    $32,088
2014    $60,790

It sounds like a lot but when you take into account inflation the cost of the 1990 model in today's dollars would be $57,808, probably not a lot considering the mechanical/electrical updates that the new car possesses.

Before someone has a go at me I can confirm that the stats show that average wages have grown at a rate higher than this.

Cheers,
Jason.

[prodigyrf]

After reading your post the curiosity got the better of me and had to Google what a SX4 is. Looks very nice, but for us there is no way we can get our family of 4 in along with our supplies to be self-sufficient and tow our camper trailer to places like Fraser Island for a week.

But each to their own as all our needs are differnet.

Yeah well it's only the missus and I now so the back seats are in the shed for trips away with the Jayco and with the double/single rear seat setup I only replace the back single for her running around town in case she needs to give a rare lift to a couple of the girlfriends or we're together and one more passenger needs a ride. In any case my Commode ute only has 2 bucket seats so the Suzy has one up on me like that. Very impressed by Suzuki's mighty mouse SUV, which is ideal as a fun getaway tug that doubles as an easy park runabout for the missus and that's critical if you've seen her parallel park 

We are spoiled with modern cars nowadays and if any old fart tells you they aint like the good old days when men were men and could fix their own, just tell them that's cos you bloody well had to so often.

[prodigyrf]

By the way how does this compare with your tug?
Just changed the first set of brake pads on the front at 79200km after 10 days up the river. I'd bought the genuine Suzy pads previously for $68 trade and a snack to put in. I never bother with aftermarket stuff as the Jap Tokico kit in the Suzi box consisted of 4 identical pads (one for the driver's side has the metal contact warning) 4 large identical clip on shim pads and 2 more smaller stainless steel ones for the inside piston pads (don't ask me but pay attention when you're pulling them apart chum) plus a sachet of high temp copper grease to apply where the instructions state. That's why I don't use aftermarket, although I expected to pay up to $100 more for genuine pads so I got a pleasant surprise with the price. The missus previous Mitsi Colt shopping trolley managed 88000kms before a front pad change (they were over double the price) so not bad considering we've clocked 25000km plus towing with the Suzi.

I'm digging that little sucker more and more but when you're kicking and bucking on the edge up that rutted sand dune track and it's a very long back up, you've got your fingers and toes crossed you're not going to crest the rise and face a downhill run and an even bigger uphill dune after that cos you're only just making this one boyoh! It's all about looking cool, calm and collected on the outside while the missus grips the armrest and does all the panicking 

[fishfinder]

 
Before someone has a go at me I can confirm that the stats show that average wages have grown at a rate higher than this.

Cheers,
Jason.

The " average wage " has gone up considerably because the " average person " is on a 6 figure income and is part of the mining boom

[jclures]

I know it is getting harder and harder for me personally, on my income to keep 4 wheel driving. My son has brought the last couple of goodies for my Nissan (he works in the mining industry) which has helped me.
I just wonder though how many people are actually on the average wage.

[edz]

[quote ....  I just wonder though how many people are actually on the average wage.    .... [/quote]
I know a hell of a lot that are working their guts out and sailing pretty close to straddling the povety line, going on last years figures  JC  ...

[prodigyrf]

I just wonder though how many people are actually on the average wage.

The majority of Australians will be much more interested in the median wage rather than the average wage. Positively skewed distributions are well understood in statistics and income distributions are the classic example of them-
http://mattcowgill.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/what-is-the-typical-australians-income-in-2013/

[prodigyrf]

And there are other considerations than average or median income-
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/half-of-families-pay-no-net-tax-if-welfare-benefits-deducted-new-figures-reveal/story-fni0cms5-1226910739573
no doubt perplexing our betters in Canberra at present 

[Jasman]

I don't want to get into a big debate or anything but in summary the ABS break up their household income analysis into three segments being low income, medium income and high income.

The data suggests that all segments have a grown at a similar rate, a rate which is higher than inflation and supports my earlier observation.

I don't dispute that in recent years that the mining boom may be impacting across all segments, but these are long term figures which pre-date the recent mining boom so are still valid in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure that there is some ABS data that shows income distribution by geographic distribution and I think this may be more telling of a divide, I live in Toowoomba where we've had a mining boom to the west and looking at the local tradies incomes there is a clear divide between on and off mine.  Take a sparky for example, off mine salaries between about $60-70k, on mine about $100-120k - some of our local mine sites are only an hours drive from here.

[shanegtr]

The " average wage " has gone up considerably because the " average person " is on a 6 figure income and is part of the mining boom

I didnt think there was that many mining jobs around???

Anyway, owning cars (not just 4wding) can be as expensive or as cheap as you like.. I personally dont buy new cars. My cruiser was $27,000 7 years ago when I brought it, and thats the most expensive car we've ever brought. My daily run around car for getting to work cost under $5,000. I can see myself spending a few $$$$ on my Torana, cant afford it all straight away, but I have time so Im happy with that  I do all my own servicing where I can - If I need special tools for a job that I'll do more than once I buy them. Chances are it works out about the same cost as getting someone else to do it, and I know its done right. The last time I got someone else to to something on my cruiser was when the autron cruise control was installed - No DIY kit available. I ended up redoing a heap of it as the install was Shit.
If you cant do any of the mechanical work then it may very well be cheaper to buy a new car and have cheaper services and warrenty take care of any problems. Some people are just plain sucked in by the advertising of new vehicles and think they need the features of whatever new car they get. Bit like what modifications people think they "need" to their 4wd. You can get away with a hell of a lot less than what some people do put on. End of the day I think most people spend what they can afford and do it in a way that suits them. Just dont spend your time following what everyone else is doing and do things the way you want - thats what I do

[prodigyrf]

Cost of serious 4WDing is a hurdle for many but there are plenty of SUVs that can double for more modest towing and getting off the beaten track, as well as commuting, which explains their popularity and in our case the 2L Suzi SX4 fits the bill. The SX4 has been superceded by the 1.6L S-Cross at around $30k and I was thinking that's getting a bit low in engine capacity and was naturally surprised to see the auto AWD is rated to tow 1200kg with 75kg on the ball like our 2L. You'd think most wanting to tow would shell out a bit more for a Vitara under the circumstances, but they are getting some impressive neddies out of small motors nowadays.

[speewa158]

Having read through all this lMHO
What you spend is what You reckon is what you need or have  to do the job .
Your level of kit depends on what you want to spend to do the job .
 At every catch up we watch others with their kit & start to think   ,  Ummm Geeeee that could be handy . The question is do you really need it  . This is 1 way the cost of things can spiral out the window .
We can drive Tojo 200s or Jolly Green Nissans & get to the same camp fire at night  .  All extras/bling  are really handy but if you were solo camping & you didn't have them would it matter , we would still get by & enjoy  " The Great Outdoors  "                                     lMHO 

[oldmate]

Having read through all this lMHO
What you spend is what You reckon is what you need or have  to do the job .
Your level of kit depends on what you want to spend to do the job .
 At every catch up we watch others with their kit & start to think   ,  Ummm Geeeee that could be handy . The question is do you really need it  . This is 1 way the cost of things can spiral out the window .
We can drive Tojo 200s or Jolly Green Nissans & get to the same camp fire at night  .  All extras/bling  are really handy but if you were solo camping & you didn't have them would it matter , we would still get by & enjoy  " The Great Outdoors  "                                     lMHO 

 
Agreed mate.

[Jakster1]

It is if you want it to be.
I bought my patrol New in 2011 , since then did a heap of mods to it to make it better like suspension, tyres, locker, winch, barwork, electronic Gadgetry inside, exhaust, chip  and more.

I haven't added up the total bill and I don't really want to either but I know that I can confidently get in and out of most tracks that I come across, in safety and comfort.

On the other hand I've had a few bush bashers that all they have costed is a few parts from mates sheds or the wreckers, a couple cartons of piss, a few weekends in the shed and a bit of fuel to get them going.

Which do I have more fun in?

BOTH

The patrol get me and the family out to places away from home and good camping trips
The bush bashers get me and the boys out on all out mayhem on the hardest tracks we can find.
The patrol is the more capable rig, but we have a hell of a time trying with the others.

[cyberess]

Some time ago there was a thread:
Cost of setting up a 4wd  http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28192

It was against the cost that I of the setup my Mahindra 4WD.

There seems to be some denial when it comes to cost or how much one spends -- or just a "don't want to know" in general.

Quotes from the thread:

I would never add up the set up cost. I would be in big trouble from someone if that information was made public

Can one of the moderators lock or delete this thread, I don't want to know and those that do know would probably not want to be reminded.....

I think when people work out how much they spend it just simply  scares them 

 

[noel_w]

I think it is all relevant to what you want to get out of your rig. I have an old GQ as my daily driver and weekend toy mostly through financial reasons. I would love to have a new 200 or a <insert new $$$$ 4x4 variant here> but we can't afford to. We chose to put our kids through private schools and having a 20yo truck with 280,000 on the clock is the end result of that. And we are not sorry we did.
It still surprises me how little it owes me. Sure I put a new donk in a couple of years ago but apart from regular services and the occasional wear & tear item it costs very little to keep it on the road. I scour fleabay and gumtree for used stuff I may need (or SWMBO thinks I need) and have found some tidy stuff for bugger all dollars).

I still get a kick out of what the old bus can do and hope to have her around for a few years yet.

So don't think that you have to have the latest and greatest doodads. There is still life in the old buses yet. Just see how many GQ's and 80's there are out on the tracks on any given weekend. Plus if it gets scratched or dented I couldn't give a rats. (Well I do but I'm not gonna get all OCD over it)

[prodigyrf]

"I still get a kick out of what the old bus can do and hope to have her around for a few years yet."
SWMBO must be pleased.
"So don't think that you have to have the latest and greatest doodads."
We'd like to hear SWMBO's opinion on that
 

[Bird]

The answer is probably yes.......................however, when did you last see a trailer behind a hearse?

[Brisbane Puff]

4wd repairs are no more expensive really than a normal vehicle and unless they are treated harshly (dont treat them like a submarine for example) they will be just as reliable as any other vehicle.

I find it amazing how much people spend on CT's but then again people would have choked on what I spent on rally cars.  Back in the mid 90's we raced a rear wheel drive Mitsubishi Lancer and were running 1st in class and close to some of the 4wd turbo cars.  The only way we did this was to put new front tyres on after every second stage and put the old fronts on the back.  We would use up $400 each time and there was normally 8 stages so there goes $1600 just in tyres. 

Later on, we were rallying just for fun and would get three rallies out of a set and just had fun. 



The 'electronics' issue is really a furphy.  They are no more likely to stuff up than an older vehicles coil, electronic ignition, points or distributor drive.  Or clutch, or axle etc.

Agree about the cost of campers.. One doesn't have to have the latest and greatest.. Just as long as your equipment fulfills your needs and takes you where you want to go... and gets you home..

Don't agree on the electrics bit though.. The more mechanical the easiest to fix on the side of the road.. One of my pet examples would be when some Japanese designer who must hate the world decided the best location for the V8 Landcruiser starter motor would be in the most hottest and inaccessible location.. Try doing a simple stater motor change on the side of the road..

As long as your machinery is serviced and looked after, old can be just as good as new at a fraction of the cost..

[SambOz]

One of the issues is that we keep getting things to make life easy and what were once luxuries to be enjoyed at home we want to take with us. This seems to defeat the purpose of getting away from it all and getting back to nature.

So true, think along simiiar lines BB.

I reckon part of going away is to live in different places with a different lifestyle, all the mod cons seem to
make it to much like home.

[woolgoolgaoffroad]

expensive ?
spending 100k to live like a hobo in the bush ?
nar