Is 4wd getting too expensive !!

[McGirr]

When you visit places like this, the expense is all worth it.

Mark

[Bird]

Not forgetting the price of bloody fuel  even Autogas is through the roof at nearly 90c WTF??

BD

yep, its a couple of hundred bux just to go away for a weekend in fuel. leave home full, get home with full tank, etc...

When you visit places like this, the expense is all worth it.

Mark

yea, but how many tanks of fuel is that going to be at around $200 a tank
Not everyone makes 100k and has 70k of disposable.

[woolgoolgaoffroad]

And what are we comparing too ??
We have so much to see and do here in oz

[Bird]

And what are we comparing too ??
We have so much to see and do here in oz

Its cheaper to go to NZ, or anyone of 500 islands than it is to go to Tasmania with my car and trailer.

[Footy Shorts Shane]

Its cheaper to go to NZ, or anyone of 500 islands than it is to go to Tasmania with my car and trailer.

It's cheaper for me to go to NZ than it is to take the camper to Moreton Island, and I can see that from home!

Shane.

(OK, maybe not quite, but you would be flat out buying a carton of beer with the change)

[Brij]

For some people it is becoming too expensive... lots of people don't have the extra cash at the end of th week they did pre kids, when both were working...
... cant go need new tyres, cant go car needs service, cant go shocks are rooted.

I know numerous people in this boat... it sucks.

Can certainly relate to that. Had a rough look at our expenditure the other day - 1/3 income on mortgage, 1/3 on school fess, 1/3 for everything else including fuel to run kids to basketball, tennis, cricket, football, part time work...... Wasn't to bad when they were at primary school (and only a few $100/year for fees) and the 3 kids only played soccer at the same grounds regardless of age group. Secondary school though  $$$$$s. The wife does approximately 200km/week running to work, and about 300km/week playing Mum's taxi 

Peter

[briann532]

I was chatting with a friend about the cost of camping and how expensive some cara.....cara......carav...........Not camper trailer parks are so expensive now!

YES IT IS. No argument from me at all, but I do have some observations.

Normally I would take my kids and meet up with friends somewhere we can camp for free.
Round Shi7ney that would be Newnes, Glen Davis, Turon, Clarencetown, Oallen etc etc.

It still costs for the camper - $28K, car $70K, camping gear $5K, fridge etc $1K. So all up around $100k to go "free" camping.
Plus diesel, lollies, food, beer etc.

Now this may seem extravagant from one point of view, but take another point of view.
I had to buy a car anyway.........
I have to buy beer and food no matter what.
Camping gear (good quality stuff) lasts many years if you take care of it.
Therefore the only "out of the ordinary" investment is the glamper.
I accept this and am willing to pay for the comfort so my kids can enjoy the lifestyle. I think its a small price to pay for the enjoyment we get.

Now to look at fuel. If I drive to my usual weekend spots and home I kiss $100 of fuel goodbye. I've allready said that food and beer don't come into it because you have to buy that anyway.

So for $100 I get a whole weekend away with my kids around a fire, swimming in the rivers etc etc.
If I go to an "expensive" caravan park and pay $50 per night plus kids (usually around $8 each), I'm now up to $232 for a weekend.
Now this may seem expensive, but imagine for a minute, you decide to take the kids to the fine Scottish restaurant for breakfast on Saturday morning.
Bye Bye $35- $40 just on breakfast. Don't spend this on food when camping.
Then take a family of 4 to the movies for an afternoon..................

I doubt you'd get change from $150 by the time you add up parking, movie tickets, gold plated popcorn and a bag of diamonds lollies......
This gets you around 2 hours of entertainment and then around 10 mins before you get asked what we are doing next.........

I'd much rather pay the coins to a whole weekend of entertainment, fun and enjoyment with friends and family, then return home on Sunday evening, with everyone relaxed and tired from lots of fun.

So yes it costs. Yes it is getting expensive, but compare it to other recreation then decide if its too expensive.
Who's got a ski boat??? fuel, engines, maintenance, rego, etc etc.

Any hobby or recreation is going to cost you.

I love mine and still think while it is getting expensive, its still great value for money.

Carry on Glamping all,

Brian

[prodigyrf]

Two points I'd make. Firstly as some note serious large 4WDs are relatively expensive to buy and not cheap on fuel, tyres and servicing but that's the figures you're looking at and I think it's false economy to believe you can keep the old ones running much cheaper. Yes the new stuff has to meet new safety and emission standards and we're definitely paying for that, but by the same token we get a lot more bang for our our buck with standard fitment nowadays. The added sophistication and technology means they're about a 10 yr proposition before the squeezers nowadays and they'll go for scrap with plenty of Kms left in the motors. In that regard you have to do your sums as to whether or not you can really afford that sort of depreciation and running costs and there are a number of running cost tables to do your homework.

Secondly, and closely related to the first consideration, should you be sacrificing some off road capability for commuting and solo driving? I certainly did with a low km SX4 the missus can drive plus a Jayco with change out of $30k ($15,500 for a 3 yr old Suzi with 35000 on the clock and a tidy 03 Dove for $12750) Now you can see the depreciation in writing off the Suzi in 7-8 yrs of running with only tyres, brake linings, batteries and servicing. What about a new/near new Vitara or Ssangyong Korando and a used or import camper as they'll tow around 2 tonne.

My take is too many are living in the past with big single purpose fuel guzzlers and old, outmoded thinking about reconditioning vehicles. If you can't afford new or near new and that 10yr depreciation to zilch, you're really kidding yourself IMO. Cut the suit to the cloth, or in my case I'm certainly not crying poverty, just priorities.

[prodigyrf]

Here's the rub-
http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx
and I plugged in the following 4WD autos for their calculated weekly running costs-
Suzuki SX4- $150
Grand Vitara- $173
Saangyong Korando- $189
Toyota Landcruiser- $396
That's after tax income remember but it would be a maxm buying new with a percentage of finance (or alternatively the opportunity cost of funds if you're paying cash) NRMA membership, etc and buying a low km one can reduce that somewhat but the figures are telling compared with some shopping trolleys on the market.

[scarps]

Here's the rub-
http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx
and I plugged in the following 4WD autos for their calculated weekly running costs-
Suzuki SX4- $150
Grand Vitara- $173
Saangyong Korando- $189
Toyota Landcruiser- $396
That's after tax income remember but it would be a maxm buying new with a percentage of finance (or alternatively the opportunity cost of funds if you're paying cash) NRMA membership, etc and buying a low km one can reduce that somewhat but the figures are telling compared with some shopping trolleys on the market.

I liked the cents per km result, much more relative.  Thnx for the link.

[cm4x4nut]

Here's the rub-
http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx
and I plugged in the following 4WD autos for their calculated weekly running costs-
Suzuki SX4- $150
Grand Vitara- $173
Saangyong Korando- $189
Toyota Landcruiser- $396
That's after tax income remember but it would be a maxm buying new with a percentage of finance (or alternatively the opportunity cost of funds if you're paying cash) NRMA membership, etc and buying a low km one can reduce that somewhat but the figures are telling compared with some shopping trolleys on the market.

yes, agree........ but your are kidding if you try and compare the functionality of the SX4 or the Vitara to the Landcruiser.

Yep, you can have another vehicle. I use the bosses Kia whenever she does not need it as it is cheaper and easier to run than the cruiser, but as soon as we are going away, there is no choice as the Kia has not got a hope in hell of pulling the Kimberly on the road, let alone as soon as it turns to dust.

[Ben.Archer]

Exactly, like most people we have two cars - the Prado for getting away and a Mazda 3 for city use.  Normally the Prado is only used for off road / towing duties, trips to bunnings / the tip and around the village.  If we are going any further afield and are not camping we use the Mazda.

Best of both worlds as far as we are concerned.

[oldmate]

We too have 2 vehicles. Hilux 4wd, my work ute, and patrol wife daily and get away vehicle.
The expense doesn't worry me. When it does I will stop going away I guess.

[GeoffA]

My GU is over 10 years old.
Better trade it in on a Suzi.......

[oldmate]

lol  geez, my hilux is 24 this year, gu is 13 lol  well past trade in also

[Ben.Archer]

lol  geez, my hilux is 24 this year, gu is 13 lol  well past trade in also

You will probably get cash back trading them in for a new Suzuki, they are both pretty new for Toyota's....

[prodigyrf]

yes, agree........ but your are kidding if you try and compare the functionality of the SX4 or the Vitara to the Landcruiser.

Well it only has to carry the missus and I now so that's a major consideration and I remove the foldover single back seat for trips away now(the other double stays permanently in the shed), so  it easily has the boot capacity of a bigun with kids on board. That said I kicked off a long time ago with a SWB Land Rover ute and my bet is the SX4 with a lift kit and serious offroad tyres would eat it for breakfast, apart from deep water crossings. The Suzi has bugger all overhangs and that would give LWB stuff a serious run for their money and you can't beat light weight in sand as I know from my Suby L Series days.

The Suzi impressed me up the Gawler Ranges when heading back to the highway I diverted from Pildappa Rock to another Inselberg shown on the mud map. Was doing OK on a farm service gravel road until it narrowed somewhat dramatically and I realised I'd missed a turnoff but the track turned and I knew it was heading for the Eyre Highway. Nowhere to turn and a long backing back when the solid clay/gravel gave way to a long sandy uphill dune and hold yer armrest missus because here goes. No time to stop for lock AWD but just hit the power on auto AWD and hope for the best. It slithered and bucked around in the chewed up sand with its standard Bridgestone Turanza road tyres and the 12-1300 odd kg of road Dove was scraping its water tank protector in the sand hump in the middle but it made the top and there ahead was the wider gravel road to meet the highway. Never in doubt mum 

Had a similar trial near Venus Bay when I decided to unhitch and head down the long beach toward the far point as I could see a couple of 4WDs and fisherman. Was going alright for a fair way until it got quite soft even for the wet sand and I decided enough with high pressure road tyres and aware of chancing the incoming tide turned uphill in the dry sand and almost got around but too much steer and she bogged down. Missus out like a shot and cursing me, so down with the tyres and out with the spade and you might like to make yourself useful collecting some brush dear. Drove straight out and back no probs even the uphill charge for the carpark and Jayco and out with the compressor. Hitched up and having a smoke when a local came up for a chat and said he had his fingers crossed when he saw me leave as he'd bogged his Hilux down to the axles there a while back and had to get a local tractor to get it out. As you can imagine the missus was giving me a real earful after that but you can have quite a lot of fun and challenge fishing with light line. Not too far off the beaten track travelling solo these days, just in case you get it wrong.

[prodigyrf]

"It had $60,000 worth of work done to it,"
http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/casanova-borrows-4wd-gets-bogged-watches-it-sink-under-the-arafura-sea/story-fnk0b1zt-1226788951634
To be perfectly honest I used to spend my pay packet on racing motorsickles, wine, women and song and waste the rest too   

[dazzler]

Prodigy makes a good point however you probably need to split it into two areas - 4wd to get you places or 4wd to us 'off road' as a sport.

If running costs are thought through then running a cruiser/patrol/prado/pajero/discovery/defender is probably not the smart choice.  Santa Fe, Outlander, Outback, Vitara, SX4, etc make more sense (provided the towing capacity is correct).  A sleeper from a few years ago was the Hyundai Terrican TD.  Sure there are some places that you could not go but very very few.

If 'off roading' is the thing then others make more sense.

We are seriously looking at a VW Tranpsorter 4Motion crewvan to replace our Prado.  The only place I really would not want to take it is the cape but there have been a few that have done it.  For the rest of the stuff we do - national parks, forestry camping and occasional (very) beach work it would do all we need.

[duggie]

Last year,s McGirr 2013 across the Gulf trip I was at the time out of work and my Old Girl ( 1991 GQ Nissan Patrol Wagon ) was without an engine, but I decided to do the First part of the trip with the Myswag group , catch up with friends and show my partner some of Queensland that she had never seen.

We left the Trackabout Camp Trailer at home and set of in my other 4x4, a 1973 G60 Nissan tray back with an esky full of ice and cold beer, 30 litre fridge for the food stuff, a tarp, tent , self inflating mattress's , camp stretchers, a couple of chairs, folding table, cooking stuff and a lap top ( I wanted to watch the Townsville V8 race).

I averaged 15 litres of fuel per 100 k,s  , no aircon but had the windows down and the vents wide open , on the dirt roads I found that I was not slowing the group down , if anything the were slowing me down, yes on the black top the group were a little quicker, but I did not hold the group up.

Did I and my partner have a good time ? No we didn't, we had a bloody great time.

Back to the basics camping is every bit enjoyable as going away in a 100k plus 4x4 with a 50k plus camper in tow, it is not just the camping/four wheel driving that make a great trip, it is the company of friends and seeing new places that makes a great trip.



cheers duggie.

[autoelecau]

I read an article the other day about a guy who purchased a 200 series TD, then went to a 100 series which he had to fix ($11,000 on various parts), and ended up going back to an 80 series in the end, saying it was the best of the bunch for performance, flexibility, and cost to repair. (that's all I remember from the article, I don't mind being corrected)

I'm at the stage where I am starting to throw the swag in the back of my little "work" car and take that places instead of the Luxy. It's all because of the price of fuel, tyres, maintenance, parts, and how I don't lose sleep if something does happen to it. I'm at the stage where the "bare basics" are fun, and so long as the car goes and is cheap, then it gets a recommendation.

Manufactures of parts that we also sell are saying that they don't offer "do it yourself" kits either because of legal reasons: someone fits it themselves wrong, and the manufacturer gets to be sacrificed when something goes pear shaped. So even aftermarket parts are getting to be more expensive. (Got to love lawyers.)

[dazzler]

cheers duggie.

Wow I had one of those.  We called it Jolly Green.  As opposed to Jolly Orange the shorty a mate had.  I think we used to get 1 MPG out of it.  LOL

[HoMErMY12]

Im hopefully going to try and get into 4 wheel driving on the cheap. well try to.

Unless someone can find a flaw in my plan (there is probably many).

My plan is to buy a small 4wd, probably something like a Daihatsu Feroza or Rocky (the ferozas are cheaper though).
My theory is, they are not a complicated vehicle, no fancy electronics, worst case scenario an engine wont cost me $10k to replace, and i can do alot of work on it myself.
Plus its small, so easy as a everyday car, and wont be silly on petrol.
Even though I have a wife and child she is not interested at all in going 4wding, so most of the time its going to be me travelling solo, or as a group trip with mates.

If all this goes to plan and I do enjoy myself off road, the current Forester comes off lease in about 3 years, so the though then is to change over vehicles, and get a new lease on something like a prado or similar.

[Nomad]

Both options are ok. The Rocky, diesel is awesome for offroad but the Feroza is probably better to live with day to day.
Have a look at Bills rebuild...I had the same one and it was indestructable but bloody slow like a tractor.

[autoelecau]

Grew up with LJ50s myself, and they were magic offroad, but it ended there. They could go over anything, and get up anything, but you can't carry more than a sleeping bag and a small tent, and expect tractors to overtake you on the open road. Some of the smaller vehicles are simply magic off-road, and if you don't mind the comfort of a small 4wd (none), then that's a bonus! Not bashing them, but when you buy a beetle, don't expect a rolls royce.