Invasion of the Chinese CT

[Janbo]

What gets my goat is when people mention Dick Smith and his good old Aussie produce...... Pity at the other 99% of tat he sells in his stores is imported!!!

[D4D]

What gets my goat is when people mention Dick Smith and his good old Aussie produce...... Pity at the other 99% of tat he sells in his stores is imported!!!

Ummm Dick Smith sold his stores to Woolworths many years ago...

[Janbo]

Ummm Dick Smith sold his stores to Woolworths many years ago...

Oh that explains it then.......... i am sure his stores were full of Aussie only up until then 

[Big Nath]

95% of the stuff we use everyday is imported.

Near all bunnings stock, 99% of electrical gear, even down to the teck screws we use.

Its sad. the Aust government needs to do something to help the Aussie workers. Introducing a carbon tax will put the final nail in the coffin for a lot of Aussie industries.

You know there is something wrong when we can import, pay taxes and freight and have it landed at our door cheaper then an Australian builder can supply it. Thanks JuLIAR.

Cheers!

[McGirr]

So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?

at 1/4 of the price i can buy 4 and still break even......

Cheers

It's the confidence that people can take their off road camper to the cape and back with out any problems. But at the end of the day if you are happy with the camper you have bought and you can get out and explore this great country.

Every one will have an opinion on this so let's not let this thread get into a verbal stoush. We all buy what we can afford and as long as we enjoy it that's the main thing.

Mark

[whatsa]

A very interesting topic indeed.

All I can say is competition is great but at the end of the day you get what you pay for. There are many examples of poor quality products out there and it is up to what each person wants and expects from that product. Alot of people cannot afford to pay big $$$ for items and thus will buy inferior / poor quality products.

On the subject of Chinese  camper trailers yes they need to make sure they comply with a standard of safety but at the end of the day they will still be alot cheaper than the Australian made product.

The old saying "  The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of  low price is forgotten"

Mark

Yes you only get what you pay for... The basis is that analogy is for one local product to another... not overseas.

a ctek charger in Aus is $485
same from US              $180

It is a silly myth... only applicable within a local store looking at their range of products.

[Benduro]

In my opinion you cannot put a price on safety therefore my logic is to pay for the quality and this should = greater safety.
A cheap imported camper to me is like driving your family around in a vehicle shod with re-mould tyres... I simply wouldn't do it for the sake of saving a few $$$.
Value is a far more complicated equation than initial purchase price, and for me I see the Aust' made quality camper trailers as terrific value when factoring in such things as after-sale back-up/service, resale, longevity, reliability, SAFETY, etc.
I can certainly appreciate that we are part of a global economy but for camper trailers it's Aussie Made all the way... For me anyway

[Mace]

Every one will have an opinion on this so let's not let this thread get into a verbal stoush. We all buy what we can afford and as long as we enjoy it that's the main thing.

Mark

All that matters, really. 

[Bird]

So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?

...last 20yrs like many others do..

[Alloy C/T]

Last 20 yrs like the others do  ?? Really ?? Must be good to be able to see into the future like that !! Whats Saturdays winning Lotto numbers then eh   Yep we can all put Shite on the Chinese  C/T and yet even our own Aussie  C/T makers admit to buying components from China or even worse declaring that they drive a Foreign built vehicle aka Toyota as no suitable Aus made vehicle fits the price or the cry of "quality" ,, sorry but its time Australian manufacturing [whats  left of it] moved to compete on price and service rather than their mantra  of protectionism due to a percieved better "quality " which rarely reflects the higher price demanded.

[noel_w]

percieved better "quality " which rarely reflects the higher price demanded.

I think I would be happier with my 9yo Trackabout Safari crossing the Simpson than a brand new Chinese CT from the quality I have seen of them. Just my $0.02 worth. And yes I paid more for my Trackie 2nd hand that a new Chinese CT and am still happy.

[Crosslander]

I don't think many would debate that if your plan is to use your camper to travel across the length and breadth of Australia including all the roughest terrain your vehicle will take you that a CT designed and built for the purpose would be the better option. In most cases this would be an Aussie built camper.

For the camper that gets out 4 or 5 times a year to a seaside caravan park or most NP camp grounds do not need (but may elect to buy) a similar camper - a lot of others are happy with a bare bones camper that fit their budget - in a lot of cases this happens to be a chinese built one.

Basing the argument for buying a Aussie built camper because you can do the Simpson etc is the same as using the same argument for a conversation between buying a Outlander versus a Landcruiser. The buyer of the Outlander obviously isn't interested in hard core 4WD'ing.

Before someone pipes up that people are buying the 6K chines camper and are expecting them to be able to do the full outback thing without mods..... well that is more an argument about Natural Selection not always working (and the fact that the regulatory bodies aren't doing their job properly.

[Doug.b]

My camper has a Chinese top (oztrail 12) but the trailer is built in Australia (Adelaide) does this make it inferior?
I think that they need have some control on Australian standards on the trailers when imported to Australia for road safety but with the tent that is probably a different story.

About the ore that they export to china and they turn it into steel cheaper (and export back) than Australia can is why we need to have a mining tax because you can only dig out these minerals once and once the minerals are gone you will not see these big mining companies here anymore because they don't give a s**t about the Australian people.

  

[DannyG]

It doesnt matter if we use a 50k CT to travel the entire country or a 3k Chinese CT to take mum, dad and the kids camping twice a year or a tent or a swag or we just like to sleep on the dirt under the stars the important thing is we are getting out there and enjoying the lifestyle

The thread doesnt need to turn into mine is better than yours, yours is dangerous and will fall to bits.....we are all like minded people we should keep it civil.

[Mace]

Basing the argument for buying a Aussie built camper because you can do the Simpson etc is the same as using the same argument for a conversation between buying a Outlander versus a Landcruiser.

Not sure this argument is truly valid in this discussion.  If we were discussing the relative merits of an Australian Built OKA and a Chinese built Great Wall, and their ability to cross the simpson, this would be similar to the current CT discussion. 

There is a place for both fully Aus built and "imported" componentry CTs.  The issue is having appropriate build quality and safety  validation.  Its clear that having a registration isnt an appropriate validation.  Having a local CT builders Guild would seem to go part of the way.

[BigJules]

Danny, this was never a criticism of people who buy a camper or products manufactured in China.

The topic raises only the REAL issue of misrepresentation by some importers that a product partly or wholly manufactured outside Australia (up to a percentage) is "Australian Made".

[Crisp Image]

On AS/NZS.
I would like to remind you all that items do not have to meet or exceed  an AS/NZS unless that standard in written into legislation.
I have no idea what standards relate to this industry however just because there is one does not mean that they are adhered too.
BTW I chose to purchase a camper that was manufactured near to home so any issues could be dealt with. I have seen their facility and they make the trailers and tents in house. They use Aussie canvas but I can't be sure about the steel.

Regards
Crisp Image

[DannyG]

Danny, this was never a criticism of people who buy a camper or products manufactured in China.

The topic raises only the REAL issue of misrepresentation by some importers that a product partly or wholly manufactured outside Australia (up to a percentage) is "Australian Made".

Yeh I understand Mate and I agree that misleading advertising is not acceptable and is catching out unsuspecting buyers.

The thread is potentially turning into a chinese bashing thread thats all I try to always speak to people online as I would standing around a camp fire with them, so I get a bit annoyed when people speak down to others behind a pc monitor.

Back on topic...............I agree with all constructive discussion in regards to the misleading advertising going on in the industry and the sooner it is regulated the better

[noel_w]

Sorry Danny (or others) if I offended you. I was in no way denegrating anyones choice to buy a CT from overseas, I was only referring to the "perceived" quality rather than "actual" quality and peoples choice to buy what they think is best for them. I did look at the others when I was buying but saw the real quality of what I bought. As Danny has said the most important thing is to get out there & see Oz. It's a great place.

[Mace]

AS 4177 is really the only applicable standard, which relates to towing componentry towballs, couplings, chains and electrical connectors.

There are also various Welding Standards, but mostly geared for structures.

As a start the guild could work out some minimum build standards for the industry.

cheers.

[DannyG]

Sorry Danny (or others) if I offended you. I was in no way denegrating anyones choice to buy a CT from overseas, I was only referring to the "perceived" quality rather than "actual" quality and peoples choice to buy what they think is best for them. I did look at the others when I was buying but saw the real quality of what I bought. As Danny has said the most important thing is to get out there & see Oz. It's a great place.

Not in the slightest mate. I understand your point of view and have no issue with it at all

[frankiedoesoz]

In the old days in NSW at least any vehicle needing registratioin that currently wasnt registered had to go over the pits where RTA inspectors made sure it complied... now every fifth rego station also does blue slips and as you say the standard of inspection is obviously lacking.

And there lies the problem!

So I see two different issues being discussed here; inferior quality on camper trailers and keeping jobs here in Australia.

For the first issue I agree that the compliance check/blue slip system is absolutely flawed.  I believe the RTA (and equivalent organizations for each state) need to realise that checking fundamentals on a camper (such as working lights, brakes, etc) just doesnt cut it any more.  We live in a time where due diligance/workmanship on manfacturing (both on and off shore) doesn't compare to the compliance rules and regulations defined 30-40+ years ago.

I believe that they need to reinstate a program where 1) they understand the state of compliance checks just to realise how bad they really are today, 2) define a new set of compliance checks that are industry aligned (read current) with a governing body specialising in campers/caravans 3) inspections performed by a trusted body whether it be the RTA themselves or out sourced to a *single* company specilising in compliance checks and 4) be liable for any damages resulting in non compliance.

Yes, point 4 may be a bit ambitious but you can see where I am heading.

As for jobs in Australia, I think we need to have a good hard think about where we are heading economically.  Primary industry such as mining will be around for some but what happens when it is no more?  Isnt China looking at cheaper areas/countries to invest in mining?  How do you really compete with off shore mass manufacturing industries?  Abolish overseas imports and reinstate local manufacturing?  Isn't that what Germany does today?

[rockman]

   
Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 05:20:37 PM »
Quote
I too have just recently joined this association and am proud to be a member. To be a member we get audited by the association to make sure that we do make our tents and trailers and if not need to prove by way of invoices that our products are made here. We also have to provide engineers drawings on our campers to make sure they comply to ADR regs etc.
I think this association is a good thing and manufacturers who miss lead the public will pay the price by the ACCC etc. Its hard for perspective buyers to make the right decision these days when purchasing a Camper Trailer as so many companies have gone off shore with trailer and tent components and quite frequently miss lead you guys when buying a camper. And a lot of companies are sending Dynaproffed Aussie made canvas overseas and getting the chinese to sew them up. We did the exercise 2 years ago and had sample tents sent over. After 3 or 4 attempts to get it right, I can say the over all quality of workmanship was pretty good. At the time when I did the math on what we were selling the savings equated to around $500000 per year (yep half a million) on our sales at the time. I decided against the off shore gear as consistency is a major issue, but the thing that stuck in my mind was "if everyone did the same....just how many people are going to loose there job"! Till today we put product over profit and some of you here might think we make a squilion $$$ but can say "NO" not the case. I rely on our good name, low profit margins with a quantity turnover to make a living. While you guys support us, we'll keep the doors open and hopefully keep making a product for all of you guys to enjoy.



I hope that the association is worthwhile and not something like the BSA , ( Building Services Authority ) , take your yearly membership and do nothing for it .

Good luck with it ..... Jim

[rotare]

I don't think many would debate that if your plan is to use your camper to travel across the length and breadth of Australia including all the roughest terrain your vehicle will take you that a CT designed and built for the purpose would be the better option. In most cases this would be an Aussie built camper.

For the camper that gets out 4 or 5 times a year to a seaside caravan park or most NP camp grounds do not need (but may elect to buy) a similar camper - a lot of others are happy with a bare bones camper that fit their budget - in a lot of cases this happens to be a chinese built one.

Well said.

In every competitive market place the business environment is constantly changing.  It's naive to think it will always remain the same.  The catch cry lately on various forums seems to constantly be "buy local" and "keep jobs in Australia".  I'd agree that if a product is not up to scratch or to agreed standard then it shouldn't be able to compete with those products that are.  However, if someone else can offer me a similar product at a significantly reduced price.... I don't know too many people who wouldn't consider buying it, including myself.

Sure, service is worth something too, however in all honesty I can say most recently I've received better service from people on the other side of a computer screen in another country, than I have when walking into a shop and dealing with someone face to face across a counter.

Online sales and overseas imports are no doubt eroding market share from Australian sellers & manufacturers.  If the same Australian sellers and manufacturers don't evolve and change the way they do business, improve their service, offer something better, innovative or unique, or look at ways to reduce their cost of goods..... then they will ultimately lose market share and in the very worst situation, no longer be operating at some point in the future.  It's the reality of the situation right now, and complaining does nothing really other than delay the enivitable.

BTW - my comments are very generalised and aren't neccessarily targeting CT industry, but more about the general philosphy of doing business in Australia.

[Bird]