Author Topic: Invasion of the Chinese CT  (Read 43022 times)

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Offline ralphedward

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2011, 08:09:57 PM »
JT I support you all the way.  I'll put it simply, if you advertise an Aussie made product then it must be so.  I know that I paid a bit more for mine and that was my choice (which I will do again at the drop of a hat) and choice is important but that choice must be able to be made HONESTLY.  Keep up the production in Aus!!!!
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Offline Crosslander

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2011, 09:11:32 PM »

I drive a Toyota and I know its made overseas, but I don't have a choice on buying an aussie made fourby similar in price and similar in $$$ value, quality etc....

Not having a go - but hat brand camping fridge do you have? You mentioned things like Vegemite etc..... Dick Smith brands are Aussie made and owned... do you buy those?? Shop at IGA?? if so congratulations - you practice what you preach. Unfortunately not all of us (myself included) are so disciplined.

 I can understand how frustrating it would be when you are genuinely Aussie made versus some that claim to be and you can't compete on price but it sounded like you are preaching a bit with a hint of self interest.

 I have imported a few bits over the years and I am not too sure about some of the figures you quoted earlier about the price landed for tents etc... think there might be a bit of poetic license there once freight, gst, duty, port charges, customs entry and clearance fees are all added in.

At the end of the day I'm afraid the world is shrinking and as someone else mentioned while some industries will inevitably go under as they cannot compete others will spring up to replace them.

I also understand that is of little solace if your industry is one of the ones that is under threat.

Offline wartim

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2011, 09:18:15 PM »
The Australian Manufacturers Camper Trailers Guild, although a little late (better late than never) will be a fantastic benefit to the whole industry.  The whole of Australia can only gain from this Guild right down to the end user, to the people looking to buy, to the manufacturers, the manufacturers staff and families (job security) or even people looking to get into the CT manufacturing business (knowledge base).  Who knows if we don't already we could very well end up with the best CT's in the world and start exporting the Aussie CT product all over the world.

Everyone should support the AMCTG whether you believe in the Chinese product or not as the AMCTG will ensure the evolution of the CT through knowledge and innovation for generations to come.  They may even be strong enough with our support to be in a position to be able to lobby the various Govt's to our benefit for things like more free camping areas, improvements to National Parks etc again ensuring this hobby or favourite leisure of ours will be available for generations to come.  

In their support I see many reasons to choose an AMCTG member when purchasing your CT or CT products and some of the benefits may end up as below -:

1 - AMCTG Members would manufacture CT's and CT products in compliance with all relevant Australian Standards.

2 - AMCTG Members would verify their CT's design performance using an accredited independent testing process.

3 - AMCTG Members provide a performance label on their products stating the products meet the relevant Australian Standards.  (Note as a point of interest an Aust STD is only a minimum standard so it is better to be of a higher standard)

4 - AMCTG Members' CT's and products would require annual or biannual inspections, hopefully by an independent body such as NATA.  

5 - AMCTG Members could guarantee their product against faulty workmanship and materials for a period of X years (subject to correct maintenance).

6 - AMCTG Members would conduct their business with honesty and integrity and maybe go as far as upholding the right to a fair return for goods and services supplied.

7 - AMCTG Members would support the CT industry because it is committed to:-

           - Raising Standards
           - Improving benefits to CT owners

Above all if using an AMCTG member when purchasing your CT of CT products it would significantly reduce the risk of purchasing the incorrect product for your application.

AMCTG Members would have access to the latest changes in any regulation or industry standards and ensure their products are fully compliant.

As you can see if we offer our support to the AMCTG, the CT industry will only improve to our benefit with better products and more Auusie jobs and maybe, oneday, a Chinese Importer may want to join, which could be OK so long as he/she meets the requirements of the AMCTG?  It could be as simple as being only allowed to bring the materials and parts into the country and having them assembled in Aust so its a win/win situation with a better product that meets industry standards and still provides Aussie Jobs?

I have no affiliation with any CT manufacturers I just love getting out there with the family and going camping and hope my kids will be able to do the same with their kids.

Cheers

Wartim





Offline D4D

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2011, 09:20:59 PM »
Call me cynical but the RVMAA started off somewhat similar and is now just a body with no teeth to enforce remediation on members, even Jayco pulled their membership.
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Offline Crosslander

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2011, 09:25:46 PM »
wartim - I agree with the sentiment and I think such a body would probably be great for the industry (I really hadn't given it a lot of thought prior to this) but i think a better solution to a lot of the issues such as meetings standards etc would be better fixed by having the dept of infrastructure (who oversee vehicle imports) and the RTA in nSW and similar relevant state bodies in other states actually enforce the law because at the moment it sounds like they don't.

I mean if campers (whether imported or locally made) don't meet standard they are illegal... pretty simple equation.

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2011, 09:27:02 PM »
Lots of illegal US import caravans being sold, especially to nomads in QLD, and the relevant authorities don't give a toss.
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Offline wartim

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2011, 09:28:32 PM »
No-one said it would be easy maybe the two (AMCTG and RVMAA) could join forces as there is strength in numbers?

Cheers

Wartim

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2011, 09:29:09 PM »
No-one said it would be easy maybe the two (AMCTG and RVMAA) could join forces as there is strength in numbers?
Like the 4wd associations? :( Hope its better than that.


Quote from: Mark@Port
I mean if campers (whether imported or locally made) don't meet standard they are illegal... pretty simple equation.

but who checks them? who tests them? Who should test/check them? Who does on the thousands of home made trailers thrown together, theres a ton of threads here with "my welding is fuqt, but Im making a trailer and hope it holds together"...  What can be done?

Vicroads couldnt have given a Shit when I registered my trailer.
"does it have numbers,
"Lights work?"
"Oh it has a tent on it"

Sadly it will take a massive accident and death/s before something really happens.
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Offline Crosslander

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2011, 09:29:56 PM »
Lots of illegal US import caravans being sold, especially to nomads in QLD, and the relevant authorities don't give a toss.
What makes them illegal??

Offline D4D

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2011, 09:30:59 PM »
What makes them illegal??

Exit doors on the driver's side etc. Checkout the caravanners forum, heaps on info there.
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Offline Crosslander

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2011, 09:35:03 PM »


but who checks them? who tests them? Who should test/check them? Who does on the thousands of home made trailers thrown together, theres a ton of threads here with "my welding is fuqt, but Im making a trailer and hope it holds together"...  What can be done?

Vicroads couldnt have given a **** when I registered my trailer.
"does it have numbers,
"Lights work?"
"Oh it has a tent on it"

Sadly it will take a massive accident and death/s before something really happens.

Exactly my point - the law isnt being enforced - rather than some sort of association saying we meet the standards blah blah the consumer should rightfully expect that any trailer they buy meets standard.

In the old days in NSW at least any vehicle needing registratioin that currently wasnt registered had to go over the pits where RTA inspectors made sure it complied... now every fifth rego station also does blue slips and as you say the standard of inspection is obviously lacking.

Offline singo-26

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2011, 09:50:02 PM »
Not having a go - but hat brand camping fridge do you have? You mentioned things like Vegemite etc..... Dick Smith brands are Aussie made and owned... do you buy those?? Shop at IGA?? if so congratulations - you practice what you preach. Unfortunately not all of us (myself included) are so disciplined.
 

I hate to say it but as far as i know IGA is no more Australian owned than vegemite.
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Offline miketanja

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2011, 10:01:41 PM »
As far as I know there is no quality standard requirements like there is with cars - ie Euro 5 emmissions, ancap safety ratings, etc.  I think the number of campers being sold and used warrants a minimum standard of quality for the trailer as a minimum.  If there was, then each "manufacturer" and "importer" must supply a trailer for testing.  The car manufacturers do this.  Hopefully, this would remove some of the unsafe trailers around.  The trailer is the biggest safety concern to me.  I was mislead into buying an imported unit - and I would say its unsafe and not fit for purpose.  But there is nothing I can do as there are no standards that it fails.

I just wish I had had the money to buy a better quality unit made here!

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2011, 10:04:52 PM »
I hate to say it but as far as i know IGA is no more Australian owned than vegemite.

Black & Gold is not owned by an Australian company. It is owned by Australian Asia/Pacific Wholesalers Pty Ltd, which is owned by Metcash Trading Ltd (http://www.metcash.com/ - formerly known as Davids Holdings). Metcash Trading Ltd is owned by Metro Cash and Carry South Africa (http://www.metro.co.za/).

You will notice on the packaging of Black & Gold products that it does not specify the brand is Australian owned. Instead, it displays a logo featuring a kangaroo and the southern cross with the text, "Distributed by an Australian owned company". Without taking much notice of the text, one could make the assumption that the brand itself is Australian owned, but it is only their distributor, FT8 (http://www.ft8.com.au/) that is Australian owned.

It is also worth noting that IGA is owned by Metcash, therefore is not Australian owned either. Each individual supermarket, however, is independently run, but they pay IGA for their services such as use of the IGA name, advertising, etc. Also worth noting is that the IGA brand originated in USA as the Independent Grocers Alliance (hence some royalties must be paid by Metcash for the use of the IGA logo, which is identical in both countries). In Australia, however, it is known as Independent Grocers of Australia.

When comparing Black & Gold products to Woolworths' and Coles' house brands, you will often find Black & Gold's products to be Australian made, while it seems an increasing number of Coles' and Woolworths' house brands are being made overseas (e.g. frozen mixed vegetables, paracetamol, etc).

Sources:

•http://www.metcash.com/index.cfm?page_id=2109
•http://www.iga.net.au/igafresh/index.cfm?page_id=2298&TempLeve11_PageID=2298
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGA_(supermarkets)
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Grocers_of_Australia
•http://www.ft8.com.au/pdf/ft8-australian-food-distributors-and-exporters.pdf
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Offline D4D

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2011, 10:07:34 PM »
Metcash have just received court approval to buy Franklins, the duopoly now turns into a triopoly.
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Offline singo-26

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2011, 10:14:59 PM »
My take on this is hopefully at the end of the day quality will win out, It does not matter weather that quality was made in china, Australia or elsewhere.

Whilst looking for my trailer I was told of a trailer for sale on the highway locally. I went to have a look at it and from about 10 feet away saw the bolts holding it together. the drawbar was bolted on with 4 galvanised m8 bolts, The suspension was the same. Everything was bolted together, It was clearly a flat pack trailer. It was cheap, It was sold by a company using the name of a small, furry Australian animal, At a glance it was as Australian as a kangaroo, Emu, A billabong or a walkabout. What scares me is someone locally has possibly bought it and is now towing this thing on the same roads with my wife and kids, It looked that dangerous to me. My comment on it was that the box of bolts would have weighed more than the rest of the trailer.

Companies like Xtrail use imported components, But seem to have some say in the quality of the product that they buy to create a value for money product at the end of the line, And admitting that imported components are used in their trailers. There are probably other manufacturers doing the same thing.

My trailer is a very used, Australian made, Quality trailer. Made 13 years ago and still going strong.
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Offline singo-26

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2011, 10:21:37 PM »
Black & Gold is not owned by an Australian company. It is owned by Australian Asia/Pacific Wholesalers Pty Ltd, which is owned by Metcash Trading Ltd (http://www.metcash.com/ - formerly known as Davids Holdings). Metcash Trading Ltd is owned by Metro Cash and Carry South Africa (http://www.metro.co.za/).

You will notice on the packaging of Black & Gold products that it does not specify the brand is Australian owned. Instead, it displays a logo featuring a kangaroo and the southern cross with the text, "Distributed by an Australian owned company". Without taking much notice of the text, one could make the assumption that the brand itself is Australian owned, but it is only their distributor, FT8 (http://www.ft8.com.au/) that is Australian owned.

It is also worth noting that IGA is owned by Metcash, therefore is not Australian owned either. Each individual supermarket, however, is independently run, but they pay IGA for their services such as use of the IGA name, advertising, etc. Also worth noting is that the IGA brand originated in USA as the Independent Grocers Alliance (hence some royalties must be paid by Metcash for the use of the IGA logo, which is identical in both countries). In Australia, however, it is known as Independent Grocers of Australia.

When comparing Black & Gold products to Woolworths' and Coles' house brands, you will often find Black & Gold's products to be Australian made, while it seems an increasing number of Coles' and Woolworths' house brands are being made overseas (e.g. frozen mixed vegetables, paracetamol, etc).

Sources:

•http://www.metcash.com/index.cfm?page_id=2109
•http://www.iga.net.au/igafresh/index.cfm?page_id=2298&TempLeve11_PageID=2298
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGA_(supermarkets)
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Grocers_of_Australia
•http://www.ft8.com.au/pdf/ft8-australian-food-distributors-and-exporters.pdf


My source is a little closer to the front end business. Any Ritchies IGA (which is most of them)as far as I know is also owned by Metcash.

Metcash have just received court approval to buy Franklins, the duopoly now turns into a triopoly.


That one is going to be very interesting from what I've heard. ;D ;D
Steve

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Offline Bird

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2011, 10:28:48 PM »
Quote from: singo-26
My source is a little closer to the front end business. Any Ritchies IGA (which is most of them)as far as I know is also owned by Metcash.


yea that was 2 seconds on google.. and few years old. but gets the idea.
Anyway why is it the Gov not onto this ? is there someone you can report companies that say "Made in AU" and they arent? Nothing comes up in google obviously

http://www.australianmade.com.au/
I thought the Aust Made site would have had a link to report those not made in AU


http://www.australianmade.com.au/just-straps-2 Aussie made snatch straps :)
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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2011, 11:28:16 PM »
http://www.australianmade.com.au/just-straps-2 Aussie made snatch straps :)


I have one of their snatch straps :)

And I have several ARB products....all of which are made in China!
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Offline Heiny

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2011, 06:07:24 AM »
I hate to say it but as far as i know IGA is no more Australian owned than vegemite.
IGA (Independent Grocers Alliance) was founded in America in 1926 and represents an alliance between wholesalers, retailers and manufacturers. IGA became the vehicle for protecting and strengthening the relationship of the three players against the growth of the chain stores.

Today IGA is the world’s largest voluntary supermarket network with sales of more than $22 billion (Euro Dollars) annually with over 4,000 independent stores in some 41 different countries.

IGA in Australia

IGA was brought to Australia by Davids Holdings in 1988 when 10 stores initially became members of IGA. In more recent times independent retailers have come to realise the benefits of uniting together under one brand, and today there are over 1000 IGA stores in the country. Davids itself has changed its name to Metcash Trading Limited and the distribution side of the business changed to IGA Distribution.

IGA stands for ’Independent Grocers of Australia’.

The IGA logo represents a standard of consistency of operation in the industry, and more importantly to IGA customers. So while the offer may differ in each of the three channels, and the stores may be of different sizes, IGA customers can be assured that they are shopping IGA, and are enabling local Australian business to continue to be active in the communities that they serve.

Whilst IGA originates from OS at least they are supporting local business and communities, more than can be said for Coles and Woolworths.

But we shop at DRAKE FOODLAND, a true Australian business thats taking on the two supermarket giants mentioned above  :cup:

In 1965, Roger Drake commenced his supermarket retailing career with the Coles Myer Group.  In 1974, after 9 years at Coles Myer, Roger established his own business by purchasing his first store for AU$29,000 in Mitcham, a southern suburb of Adelaide, South Australia – a three-lane supermarket called Jack & Jill’s with 4 employees.  After three successful years, Roger opened a larger supermarket at Torrensville, in the western suburbs of Adelaide.  The company has grown opportunistically since then and now owns 48 stores throughout South Australia and Queensland, with a turnover in excess of $800M and 4500 employees nationally.


Drake Supermarkets is the largest independent grocery retailer in Australia and specialises in supermarket retailing.  In addition to their supermarket stores, the company operates a liquor store, several newsagencies and a consulting service.  The company also has a significant property portfolio.


The company’s strength lies in operating on the principles of a family business and supporting local manufacturers and suppliers.  Roger prides himself on knowing as many of his staff as he can by name. He spends time every day out in his supermarkets, talking to staff and customers alike, and always endeavouring to improve the level of service the company provides.

Despite its expansion, the company has managed to keep its focus on the important aspects of the supermarket business – THE CUSTOMER – by always striving to provide superior customer service. This is the company's competitive edge – along with its family values and South Australian roots.  One of Roger’s best-known sayings is “I am not your boss, the customer is your boss, for without the customers, none of us would have a job!”

 As a first generation family business, Drake Supermarkets has achieved great success in a market dominated by two retail giants.  An increased focus on staff training and development, customer service initiatives, innovation and an expanded social media presence have been among the key factors to this growth.  However, Drake  Supermarkets overall sales growth is the commitment to our customers, community, staff and suppliers.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 06:21:19 AM by 73bubba »
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Offline whatsa

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2011, 06:55:19 AM »
Yes I was concerned about the CTs from china. I ended up buying a 1992 Cub and fixing it up.
(looked at my mates new one and it is good)

It is funny that the industry has gone this long before this happened. I am in IT and years ago it
became not viable to be a reseller of IT equipment. This is the same now for the RV industry but
it does not mean that the industry is dead. They just have to see the new model. This is in a
service and support model and there is a good living in it. Is it different -yes
will you need to change? yes

will you you able to sit on your laurels and support one product? NO those days are gone.

Its funny RVs and campers are not that difficult, I figured out mine easy enough and an experienced person it takes
even less time. Yes its harder and you have to think (some dont think thats covered in their award wage)

If you are hungry, like a challenge and take pride in the work you do, this is not a problem you will roll with the punches
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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2011, 07:16:29 AM »
A very interesting topic indeed.

All I can say is competition is great but at the end of the day you get what you pay for. There are many examples of poor quality products out there and it is up to what each person wants and expects from that product. Alot of people cannot afford to pay big $$$ for items and thus will buy inferior / poor quality products.

On the subject of Chinese  camper trailers yes they need to make sure they comply with a standard of safety but at the end of the day they will still be alot cheaper than the Australian made product.

The old saying "  The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of  low price is forgotten"

Mark
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Offline Big Nath

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2011, 07:24:09 AM »
So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?

at 1/4 of the price i can buy 4 and still break even......

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2011, 07:44:18 AM »
So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?

Mine can keep a manufacturing base in Australia. How's yours looking on that one?
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Offline Big Nath

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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2011, 07:56:39 AM »
HA!

concidering most of the parts on yours are imported...........

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