MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: J.R on May 24, 2016, 05:35:09 PM
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What happened to dropping a lot of coin an a new 4wd and just drive it?
It seams everyone is saying you need to modify the EGR, fit a NADS (Patrol), use manual mode in the Challenger instead of just leaving it drive.
We are looking a purchasing a new vehicle. The D Max is top of the list due to the Izuzu engine and gear box.
It seems most other models require additional modifications just to get any decent KM's out of them.
Am I wrong? Is there something I can drive straight from the dealer and tow my van around Australia with no additional modifications?
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Personally I would say if you are
1. Not doing serious difficult offroading
2. Your van is below probably 2000kg
then yes, almost all the 4wds utes and wagons on the market will do that straight out of the dealership.
If you want to tow >2000kg you might want to beef up the suspension but I'm sure a few vehicles cope just fine with 3000kg with no mods.
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I just bought a new Hilux SR dual cab and it will not be receiving any mods.
1. It doesn't need them for what I want to do
2. I dont have the cash to spend on it
3. I plan to turn it over regularly (12-18 months)
It's getting a uhf radio and I have 6 B&S run to a Andersen plug on the headboard of the tray and the dash cam is stuck to the windscreen. All that gear will transfer to the next vehicle but basically it will remain stock
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Yes and no.
As for the EGR side of things, if you are only looking at owning the vehicle for 150,000kms and then selling it, just buy it, drive it and enjoy. If you are looking longer term, you would need to think about modifying the EGR system to prevent the intake manifold clogging up. Either a retune to delete the EGR or a blanking plate or a catch can or a combination. All diesel engines will be the same due to current anti-pollution requirements.
All new fourbies have suspensions designed and tuned for comfort, because that is what the vast majority of consumers want. If you want a suspension to handle endless kms of corrugations and/or to tow a van or camper, you will need to spend money on the suspension at some stage. If you are sticking to the black top and an occasional NP, just buy it and drive it.
As for the Isuzus, they have a strong, reliable and proven engine coupled to a strong, reliable auto box and tow very well. Stick it in D for drive and enjoy.
Good luck with your decisions.
KB
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I bought a brand new $41000 BT50, fitted a snorkel the 1st week I owned it, week 2 I stuck my camper on the back and drove it to Newcastle for work for 3 weeks.
Along the way I found the rear springs were a bit on the soft side for the combined mass, so ordered some upgraded the springs. When I got home I fitted the heavier springs, strapped on some A/T tyres and headed to the The Cape.
It could have done the trip straight off the show room floor, water on The Cape was low everywhere we went, I could have got by with the stock tyres, but, with the stock springs I would have kept bottoming out, the air cleaner would probably have been clogged up with dust and the A/T's were stronger an dprobably saved me a puncture.
So you can head out with a stock vehicle, but a vehicle with a few mods will probably do it easier.
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Seems the newer Dmax Utes are having strength and reliability issues. There are quite a few guys that actually use them as a 4wd that have had dramas with driveline strength issues. Also reports of drivetrain reliability issues. I don't believe they are still what they used to be. Also the rest of the vehicle needs to stand up as well as a motor for it to be any better than the others. This is why a 4.2 GU patrol is worth its weight in gold, bulletproof driveline and a motor and box that goes forever. But yeah these are not available anymore.
I own a dmax and it's ok, but definitely not fantastic offroad in standard form. My next ute will probably be another hilux again, not the best on paper but from my experience the most reliable, robust and if something does break then easily repairable of that category of vehicle.
If you plan to give it an easy life and not go offroad seriously and just tow a reasonable load then the dmax with a suspension upgrade will be a good rig.
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My apologies. I made a mistake
KB
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Hello
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Chill King Billy, you are mistaking me for someone else. For a start, Jakster1 is exclusive to my swag, nowhere else. And I don't comment on any other forums so just take a breath and settle down. IM NOT WHO YOU THINK I AM.
I am merely commenting to the OP and giving my opinion of my personal vehicle that I drive everyday.
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To the OP ..Yes you can just drive one ..I have thought about what to next in regards to 4X4.. and to be honest I think i will just buy one drive the pants off it for 3-4yrs and then swap it out for a new one.
Saw plenty of standard cars up the cape and no doubt will see plent up the Kimberley as well.
jet ;D ;D
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My apologies Jakster1. Yes I did make a mistake and confuse you with another Jack. Sorry
KB
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All good :cheers:
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One of the reasons I went for a petrol this time. One less thing to modify
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Landrover discovery 4 - you'll drag a 3.5 tonne van all over Australia in comfort straight off the showroom floor (well you'll need an electric brake controller fitted - but that'll apply to all vehicles). Excellent economy from a very strong v6 diesel - drives like a car not a truck. AND if you want to do some serious off-roading, well it'll do that too without a lift kit! Incredibly strong monocoque shell on full ladder chassis construction. Independent suspension which is why it drives like a sports car + you'll fit half your house in the back.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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...Am I wrong? Is there something I can drive straight from the dealer and tow my van around Australia with no additional modifications?
if you can find a new one, any of the Land Rover Defender models will do that, otherwise like Meken says a disco 4, but that is a lot of coin
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I would say yes...
I've crossed the Simpson twice. First time was in 1993 in a mate's fathers almost new and completely stock Pajero (even had stock tires). Second time was in 2014. In 2014 one of our group took their under 2 yr old Patrol which was machanically completely stock (had a ARB bullbar).
Both vehicles did the Simpson crossing without incident.
I think modifications come into play when you want to travel in more comfort (ie suspension, water tanks, roof top tents, dual battery's, etc), or long term reliability in extreme conditions (ie snorkel, etc).
In saying this, I always add light truck tires (puncture resistance), suspension (off-road comfort & clearance), and dual batteries (for the fridge - which is in the 'comfort' category) to my vehicles before heading off-road.
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Landrover discovery 4 - you'll drag a 3.5 tonne van all over Australia in comfort straight off the showroom floor (well you'll need an electric brake controller fitted - but that'll apply to all vehicles). Excellent economy from a very strong v6 diesel - drives like a car not a truck. AND if you want to do some serious off-roading, well it'll do that too without a lift kit! Incredibly strong monocoque shell on full ladder chassis construction. Independent suspension which is why it drives like a sports car + you'll fit half your house in the back.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And don't even need to touch the suspension on them when towing heavy loads either - air suspension is great. Only down side with a new one is theres not much in the way of dealer support outside of capital cities
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...... Incredibly strong monocoque shell on full ladder chassis construction.....
How does that work?? Hedging their bets, perhaps??
:cheers:
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......Only down side with a new one is theres not much in the way of dealer support outside of capital cities
....and that's a biggie....
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....and that's a biggie....
Not an issue to me, but then again mine is long out of warrenty ;D
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And if your in warranty then they come and get you anyway with the Landrover assist. The wide distribution of service centers has definitely been Toyotas biggest asset .
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And if your in warranty then they come and get you anyway with the Landrover assist. The wide distribution of service centers has definitely been Toyotas biggest asset .
Didn't think they needed them. 😊
OK I'll leave now!
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Almost all of the current crop of 4wds available have tyres that won't cut the mustard in any remote setting. Likewise, factory suspension won't handle any serious 4wding(including some cheap aftermarket stuff) or remote touring (how many factory/cheap suspension has failed on the canning or cape?)........
My 4.2 motor is basically stock!!!!!!!! Factory turbo was replaced with a denco to give her a bit more air in. Pump is std, as is boost. IC std, injectors std, radiator std even the fuel filter system is std. No blocked this or bypassed that.
I've also changed the diff ratios to 4.3s to bring everything back to factory as I run 33s.
11 years and 320,000km only servicing required.
The rest of the mods are to personalize it to my requirements and likes.
To be completely honest, I'd hate to get something to replace her with, there's really nothing out there that will do the kind of remote touring that I do available, well maybe an IVECO??????????
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To be completely honest, I'd hate to get something to replace her with, there's really nothing out there
x eleventy!
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My bog-stock hilux crossed the Simpson with only a few "mods"
Front recovery points which I didn't use
Dual battery to run the fridge.
UHF to talk to the others.
Factory tyres
Factory bash plate. This copped an absolute bashing and i now have replaced it
It also has a canopy and tub liner fitted.
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Really depends what you personally want from the vehicle and just where you want to go. If you just want to do a lap around the country to say you have done it and don't venture too far from the black top then pretty well any vehicle is capable of it.
If you have a more specific agenda or itinerary then a little bit more homework might be needed. But honestly I think too many people for whatever reason just over complicate things and in the end we feel we need to this and that to be able to do something, when really all you need to do is just do it.
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What is considered over the top? Surely not decent suspension and tyres. That'd pretty much be enough wouldn't it? Perhaps a couple of jerrys if your girl tank is a bit small.
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When I was posted in NORFORCE, we would bounce around Arnham land or the Kimberlys in stock standard troop carriers. Only fitted with an ARB Bullbar and roof rack.
Does this make it a proper 4wd that does not require additional mods to do what it's designed for?
Why does every body say a NADS must be fitted to a Patrol when buying?
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Of coarse you can. Given the right care and a bit of mechanical sympathy you could buy any 4wd and go anywhere you want so long as you have traction.
That said, If I'm heading bush (or moreover, desert) I will take my 98 model 105 Cruiser with LR tank, bar work, drawers, lockers, 33's etc etc over my 3 month old XLT Ranger every time. Why, coz it's more convienient travelling with all the added bits.
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My wife and I were just talking about that today.
We discussed the Cape. To use our current 4wd with all the fruit and worry about it? It's set up for long rang towing in comfort and towing the camper. Not so much deep river crossings and mud.
We don't want to be stopped by the possibility of scratches or dents. It's too good for that.
I know it's a 4wd, we have to much money invested. We would do the Simpson in it tomorrow, just not the Cape amd what we want to see.
Or, buy and old 2.8 NA live axle Hilux dual cab and enjoy the Cape and not have to worry about dents, damage or scratches.
We are leaning towards the Hilux. Give it a good service, replace what needs replacing. Fit a set of 31inch muddies. Fit a rear locker, fridge, recovery gear, swags and a change of jocks and enjoy it.
That's what we are thinking of doing.
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My wife and I were just talking about that today.
We discussed the Cape. To use our current 4wd with all the fruit and worry about it? It's set up for long rang towing in comfort and towing the camper. Not so much deep river crossings and mud.
We don't want to be stopped by the possibility of scratches or dents. It's too good for that.
I know it's a 4wd, we have to much money invested. We would do the Simpson in it tomorrow, just not the Cape amd what we want to see.
Or, buy and old 2.8 NA live axle Hilux dual cab and enjoy the Cape and not have to worry about dents, damage or scratches.
We are leaning towards the Hilux. Give it a good service, replace what needs replacing. Fit a set of 31inch muddies. Fit a rear locker, fridge, recovery gear, swags and a change of jocks and enjoy it.
That's what we are thinking of doing.
Not having a dig directly at you JR, but my thoughts after reading your post
Why buy a "Flash 4wd" if you want to use it but are too scared to use it in case of damage? Snorkel and good tyres and your tow rig also becomes a water crossing rig with minimal sacrifice.
And the idea of buying another 4wd to go 4wding in, well it baffles me a bit, when people go out and get the latest model, add everything so it can go everywhere, and take it nowhere a Camry won't go.
WHY?
But there are LOTS of people I know that do the same.
One would think you'd be better off maybe spending a bit less money if that's the driving motive to not scratch it, getting a nice capable vehicle say a few years old setting it up and using it for everything.
Just my 2c
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My wife and I were just talking about that today.
We discussed the Cape. To use our current 4wd with all the fruit and worry about it? It's set up for long rang towing in comfort and towing the camper. Not so much deep river crossings and mud.
We don't want to be stopped by the possibility of scratches or dents. It's too good for that.
I know it's a 4wd, we have to much money invested. We would do the Simpson in it tomorrow, just not the Cape amd what we want to see.
Or, buy and old 2.8 NA live axle Hilux dual cab and enjoy the Cape and not have to worry about dents, damage or scratches.
We are leaning towards the Hilux. Give it a good service, replace what needs replacing. Fit a set of 31inch muddies. Fit a rear locker, fridge, recovery gear, swags and a change of jocks and enjoy it.
That's what we are thinking of doing.
What do you think will happen to it on the Cape that can't happen on the Simpson? Dents and scratches? Simpson is hard on a car in a dry year and worse in a wet one? You can drive to the top of Cape York in a Hyundai Getz.
If by your post you mean you want to buy a dunga to flog it down every track on the Cape and not care if you damage it then I get that coz I did it a few years ago. But you can see all that the Cape has to offer without doing any more damage than you would towing a caravan to Darwin if you take even a little care.
If this stupid iPad worked like a PC I'd put up a pic of the Simpson 2010. You want mud ;D
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My wife and I were just talking about that today.
We discussed the Cape. To use our current 4wd with all the fruit and worry about it? It's set up for long rang towing in comfort and towing the camper. Not so much deep river crossings and mud.
We don't want to be stopped by the possibility of scratches or dents. It's too good for that.
I know it's a 4wd, we have to much money invested. We would do the Simpson in it tomorrow, just not the Cape amd what we want to see.
Or, buy and old 2.8 NA live axle Hilux dual cab and enjoy the Cape and not have to worry about dents, damage or scratches.
We are leaning towards the Hilux. Give it a good service, replace what needs replacing. Fit a set of 31inch muddies. Fit a rear locker, fridge, recovery gear, swags and a change of jocks and enjoy it.
That's what we are thinking of doing.
Just so you know, we did the cape last year, old tele, old coach rd blah blah blah, i dont go out to try and damage my car, but if i get it scratched by going or doing something i enjoy i dont care, thats what i got it for. But in all of the 31 days on our cape trip, the car did not get one extra scratch on it. The trailer came home with a couple but not the car. Go Late in the season, very little mud and rivers are all low, some dont even have water in them. Just go mate and enjoy it. :cheers:
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What do you think will happen to it on the Cape that can't happen on the Simpson? Dents and scratches? Simpson is hard on a car in a dry year and worse in a wet one? You can drive to the top of Cape York in a Hyundai Getz.
If by your post you mean you want to buy a dunga to flog it down every track on the Cape and not care if you damage it then I get that coz I did it a few years ago. But you can see all that the Cape has to offer without doing any more damage than you would towing a caravan to Darwin if you take even a little care.
If this stupid iPad worked like a PC I'd put up a pic of the Simpson 2010. You want mud ;D
Agreed.
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Agreed.
Yes. There's a world of difference between "use" and "abuse"......
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If this stupid iPad worked like a PC I'd put up a pic of the Simpson 2010. You want mud ;D
And who was it that did it with front drive only....... ;D ;D
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And who was it that did it with front drive only....... ;D ;D
Just shows how tuff the old girl is when it'll cross in front wheel drive. The Fat Corola, we called it 8)
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Just remember BMW X5 got 4wd of the year several years ago LMAO... and apparently the ford Everest according to tele ads won it this year..
lets take 1 of each and hit Toolangi!
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/aussie_extreme/Toolangi007.jpg)
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Just remember BMW X5 got 4wd of the year several years ago LMAO... and apparently the ford Everest according to tele ads won it this year..
lets take 1 of each and hit Toolangi!
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/aussie_extreme/Toolangi007.jpg)
Ahh
but that's not what 4wding is all about these days.
You need a car that can take you from work to the beach (car park) to the mountain bike track. And it must be able to do it all not spilling the soy latte mocha chino.
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Actually, that's never been what 4wd's were all about. The vast vast majority of 4wd's ever sold, even those that actively engage low range, were never bought - certainely by their first owners - with climbing that sort of terrain as their main objective. Even in the 'good old days' when 4wd's were bought for ability over comfort and bling it was mostly about getting off the beaten track and exploring new horizons or by farmers that needed to access near virgin country. Old 4wders, when faced with that sort of thing would either find another route, turn back or expect a long winching session. In fact, tracks like that only exist because of a small minority of folks who own 4wd's specifically to challenge themselves and their vehicles (and their is nothing wrong with that).
It's all well and good to drive around in a 4" lifted and locked old girl on 33's or 35's beating our chests about capability but driving them 2 or 3000km along tar roads, dirt roads and even 99% of tracks is still like driving a boat with vague tiller steering coming into their own only at a place like that. If a newer 4wd can't get up that sort of thing then that is hardly a reason to scoff at them given that they do everything else eminently better.
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What happened to dropping a lot of coin an a new 4wd and just drive it?
It seams everyone is saying you need to modify the EGR, fit a NADS (Patrol), use manual mode in the Challenger instead of just leaving it drive.
I'd suggest that most new cars are pretty competent straight out the show room. A lot of the suggested mods you read about for a certain vehicle provide some added benefit, but aren't always critical or a dead set necessity. It comes down to personal choice really.
Were the cars from 20+ years ago any better in this regard? I don't think so. How often did antipollution gear ripped from motors to give better fuel economy and power? On some models removing the automatic choke to extend the life of your plugs was just a standard mod. I reckon sales of after market thermos fans and external transmissions coolers for those that towed were never so great as they were in the 80's and 90's.....
It's always been the same, just the stuff removed, replaced or modded has change over time.
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Just so you know, we did the cape last year, old tele, old coach rd blah blah blah, i dont go out to try and damage my car, but if i get it scratched by going or doing something i enjoy i dont care, thats what i got it for. But in all of the 31 days on our cape trip, the car did not get one extra scratch on it. The trailer came home with a couple but not the car. Go Late in the season, very little mud and rivers are all low, some dont even have water in them. Just go mate and enjoy it. :cheers:
The last 2 trips to the cape with our patrol and trackabout we returned dirty and not damaged as such. The first time we dragged the trackabout up the Tele track and had a great time. The second time we did the Tele track without trailers as the people we were travelling were too scared to take their trailers so we left them at Bramwell Station.
There are tracks around the "supposedly" tough tracks and the Tele track is mostly cleared about a chain either side. It's a beautiful bush trip to do. We can sustain more damage in the Coles car park then out on some tracks.
If your vehicle is well maintained there shouldn't be any problems. In saying that we put new shockies on and got up past bamaga and hubby end up replacing the new rubbers with the old rubbers he had thrown in 4 just in case. Cheers rellbell
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lets take 1 of each and hit Toolangi!
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/aussie_extreme/Toolangi007.jpg)
aahhhhh memories.......rocky track. Have a pic of my old gq about 15 yrs ago with wheels in the air over the ledge about half way up.......
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aahhhhh memories.......rocky track. Have a pic of my old gq about 15 yrs ago with wheels in the air over the ledge about half way up.......
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: Then onto Vicrange Track ;) But alas that's been closed for many years :(
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10 years ago I bought a new dual cab Rodeo and 8 months later we did 6 000 kms driving Cape York and Central QLD. Only mod was a Bull Bar (Personal choice) snorkel, UHF radio and extended diff/gearbox breathers.
Factory supplied suspension and AT tyres and didn’t even have a dual battery. I did get a cracked windscreen on the trip and a few stone chips, but nothing that hasn’t happened even when driving sealed roads.
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I did 10 years belting fleet 80/100 series around the place, and hilux/75 series from 4wd hire service. Apart from play areas there's not a lot of places a standard fleet vehicle hasn't been in this country.
We got a standard coil cab patrol ute back from Cape Flattery to Cairns during the wet season one year - mostly underwater on nearly bald grandtreks - can't believe I used to get paid to do that stuff.
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I did 10 years belting fleet 80/100 series around the place, and hilux/75 series from 4wd hire service. Apart from play areas there's not a lot of places a standard fleet vehicle hasn't been in this country.
We got a standard coil cab patrol ute back from Cape Flattery to Cairns during the wet season one year - mostly underwater on nearly bald grandtreks - can't believe I used to get paid to do that stuff.
There's not a lot of places ANY hire car can't go. Especially Tarago's. Those things are indestructible ;D
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There's not a lot of places ANY hire car can't go. Especially Tarago's. Those things are indestructible ;D
I pre ordered a 4wd at syd airport one time for an outage at Pt. Perpendicular during a storm. Flew in and there's a brand new magna sitting there........ Less than 24 hours old by the time I got it back to Sydney airport and it was stuffed. I won a bet with the sentry at the navy base who reckoned I couldn't make it to the lighthouse and back haha.
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I did 10 years belting fleet 80/100 series around the place, and hilux/75 series from 4wd hire service. Apart from play areas there's not a lot of places a standard fleet vehicle hasn't been in this country.
We got a standard coil cab patrol ute back from Cape Flattery to Cairns during the wet season one year - mostly underwater on nearly bald grandtreks - can't believe I used to get paid to do that stuff.
Yep, there are not many places a standard fleet car, with a bit of skill, mechanical sympathy, luck and enthusiasm will not go. Hire cars will mostly go there, but are far better if they are paid for on someone else's credit card.
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Yep, there are not many places a standard fleet car, with a bit of skill, mechanical sympathy, luck and enthusiasm will not go.
You forgot to add a rev limiter to that list ;D
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Michael Stahl took a Porsche 911 Carrera 4 - with a few spacers added to the suspension - across the Simpson Desert. Including Big Red (twice), and the Oodnadatta Track. And all that involves.
Yup - one of the world's fastest sports cars conquered some of the harshest terrain in Australia, with just 100mm suspension lift. With high performance road tyres.
I have a PDF copy of an article in Motor or Wheels magazine, from about year 2000. So, the question of whether a standard modern 4WD will get everywhere is pretty academic, as many guys are saying. Such an awesome article I have managed to keep it for 15+ years.
I'll try to find how I can load the article up. But unfortunately its a hell of a week work wise for me, so that may have to wait a few days.
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One of my mates took an Audi R8 to the Birdsville Races a few years back. He parked it on Big Red :cup:
no mods at all :D
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee73/trac44/02-009-08494.jpg)
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:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: Then onto Vicrange Track ;) But alas that's been closed for many years :(
WHAT..........closed......rocky or vicrange??
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WHAT..........closed......rocky or vicrange??
Vic Range
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There's not a lot of places ANY hire car can't go. Especially Tarago's. Those things are indestructible ;D
It's a well known fact that all rental cars have same offroad ability as a big tyre, lifted and locked 4wd...
They also have an infinite rev limit.
Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk
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It's a well known fact that all rental cars have same offroad ability as a big tyre, lifted and locked 4wd...
They also have an infinite rev limit.
Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk
That made me laugh. I remember driving some Ford 4 cylinder thing along a German autobahn at about 200kmph in 5th gear at about 8000rpm's and thinking that I wasn't redlining it because there were no red lines on the tacho, so its all good.
(and still having big benz's and beemers flying past me like I as standing still)
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A standard Mini has crossed the Simpson though plenty of assists over the dunes
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/mighty-mini-20120322-1vlmi.html (http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/mighty-mini-20120322-1vlmi.html)