MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: swamprat on October 30, 2011, 04:13:51 PM
-
Interesting to read all the posts regarding the current situation at Qantas. It seems that a few members have some vitriolic views about unions etc. and management. It is a pity that some of the facts were missing. One member mentioned the so called pilots strike in the 80's. Wrong! The pilots didn't go on strike, they all resigned. They got some so called advice from a QC who said that if they all resigned the airlines would cave in. They didn't and the domestic aviation recovered and went on to the situation we have today with cheap fares and reduced service.
Someone suggested the Ansett collapse was a result of union action. Wrong! Ansett was bought by an overseas airline and asset stripped to the point it couldn't survive. 8500 good people out of a job.
Someone did mention the private consortium that nearly bought Qantas in 2006/7. They missed out by 4 hours and if they were successful Qantas would not exist today because the consortium went broke in the 2008 GFC.
Qantas doesn't want to operate as Qantas, they want to operate as Jetstar primarily and just fly to LA and London as Qantas.
I was also wondering how many posters work in the FIFO mining industry? You want to hope the chinese will still be prepared to pay the high prices for our resources when their economy starts to slow down as most economists predict. It didn't take long for the big miners to offload staff in 2008 when the GFC hit. How long can we keep paying cleaners in mining camps etc over 100k per year and truck drivers the same. A lot of planes work in this area and the airlines get top dollar for the fares.
I think Nick Zenifon mentioned how Qantas and Jetstar work their fuel costs to fiddle the books. Qantas is an airline that has had it's day but you can't blame their employees for trying to get a better deal. Don't we all want a better deal from our employer or customers?
Qantas pilots get s..t compared to pilots in the old guard airlines like Cathay/BA/SQ/ Emirates etc.
They have also not been on strike in this dispute.
Everyone have a deep breath, a Bex and a good lie down or >:Dhave a beer and watch to sun go down. IT WILL STILL COME UP TOMORROW. >:D
-
I reckon it takes two to tango. You can't have $500 billion profits and scream poor when your employees ask for improved wages and conditions. It always seems the shareholders take precedence over employees and customers (just ask the banking sector). And you can't compete with international carriers that are heavily subsidised by their governments and have hevily reduced overheads and expect to pay huge wages to employees. I can't help but agree with Dick Smith and his comments on ABC last night.
But I agree - everyone take a breath, go back to your corners and come out ready to get this sorted for the betterment of all.
Paul (SA)
PS And isn't it great we live in a country where we can argue and debate like this (even if we get things wrong) without fear of persecution or harm. Makes you appreciate the things we can easily take for granted in Oz.
-
Bad timing ( and judgment ) when the pilots ask for increased wages and the boss pleads poor and the very same day gets a $2million pay rise......what the ??
-
Well said Swamprat.
I am with you Gronk.
The last two CEOs & boards seem to have wrecked this airline.
I think the issues with the Pilots, Engineers and Ground staff are the symptom not the problem.
Cheers
Parry
-
You can't have $500 billion profits
Just so the facts are correct, profit was $552 million before tax, not a lot from $15 billion in revenue. You try running a business on less than 4% margin, that is less than the supermarkets make.
-
Anyone want to step into Alan Joyces shoes. If he gives in and the company goes belly up he will always be forever remembered, I he tries to negotiate and the industrial action continues, and the company goes belly up he will be forever remembered.
Looks like a loose/loose situation to me!
As does this thread, Personally I think this thread should be locked before it goes pear shaped like the one this morning.
-
This is a no pear thread ;D
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kxe8nayjFcY/S_6YYLtOX4I/AAAAAAAAASA/FE22cCBGv4o/s1600/pear.jpg)
-
All I've got is this.
(http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss137/singo-26/Capslock.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Oh the joy, as if having Shorten and Ferguson in government wasn't enough...
The man who brought Qantas to its knees after waging one of the most aggressive union campaigns in the history of disputes is also set to become the next ALP national president.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/qantas-grounding-the-key-figures-in-the-dispute-between-alan-joyce-and-the-unions/story-e6freuy9-1226180479855
-
Anyone want to step into Alan Joyces shoes. If he gives in and the company goes belly up he will always be forever remembered, I he tries to negotiate and the industrial action continues, and the company goes belly up he will be forever remembered.
Looks like a loose/loose situation to me!
As does this thread, Personally I think this thread should be locked before it goes pear shaped like the one this morning.
The only thing that went pear shaped on the other thread was that some people cant accept that others are entitled to voice their opinion, they also think their own opinion is the only one that should be heard >:D The other thread was well within the guidelines of the General Discussion section >:(
There have been far worse threads on this forum that have been left unlocked ???
bubba :cheers:
-
Hey Bubba
PM sent Mate.
-
Hey Bubba
PM sent Mate.
:cheers: Steve
bubba
-
I have have thoughts on this subject and the other thread, and whilst they may have inflamed others I thinks well it's like a TV show, if you don't like the thread then change the channel or just don't read it :D
-
I have have thoughts on this subject and the other thread, and whilst they may have inflamed others I thinks well it's like a TV show, if you don't like the thread then change the channel or just don't read it :D
As do I, But at the moment our thoughts wont help anything, Unless we are prepared to step between the parties and mediate. And I aint taking on that role. :cheers:
-
The other thread got the chop (not by me btw) to curb what was becoming a fairly volitile exchange of opinion, some of which resorted to abuse to push the point. The other option to closing the thread down could have been the culling or editing of posts or PMs to the antagonists but that would have just aggravated the already high emotion.
I enjoy reading a lively discussion and being in the aviation industry, I am keen to see good constructive discussion here, so please keep it civil.
Please take note of the following link prior to posting. http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=2.0 (http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=2.0)
:cheers:
-
As do I, But at the moment our thoughts wont help anything, Unless we are prepared to step between the parties and mediate. And I aint taking on that role. :cheers:
Someone has to sort out this crap, otherwise another Australian company will go down the drain
-
I agree with unions in theory but lost any interest in sympathizing with them when I was spat and pissed on by the cfmeu at yandi in 2004 and then Joe McDonald burst into my office, called me a Fu(king (unt and said my house was gonna be firebombed and my family would die in 2005 when was working on the Perth to mandurah railway. I was only doing my job and worked for a company that had awu eba not cfmeu. Extreme case I know but it made me decide that unions were not for me. The union reps are scum! They don't loose their jobs but are the ones that cause all the sh1t.....Well done qantas, if they don't like it they are free to look elsewhere!
-
QUOTE: "The only thing that went pear shaped on the other thread was that some people cant accept that others are entitled to voice their opinion, they also think their own opinion is the only one that should be heard"
pot/kettle???
QUOTE: "Well done again to Qantas to standing up to those who are holding them and the country to ransom, there should be more of it"
And that's not what Qantas are doing now??
QUOTE: "This recent industrial action had cost Qantas 70 million dollars to date (15 million per day) NO company regardless of size can sustain those losses"
Obviously Qantas can, because the actions of the board (and Joyce) are going to be costing $20 million per day (oh, and the unions actions were costing Qantas $15 million per week, not per day)
QUOTE: "Yes, timing was poor on this [in relation to Joyce's pay rise] but put it into perspective of what overseas CEO's get and it is still peanuts. The pilots, check in staff, baggage handlers etc are still the highest paid of any airline in Australia".
So you've compared the CEOs salary to overseas counterparts...but the pilots etc to Australia. How does the salaries etc of pilots etc compare to overseas companies (Cathay, Thai, Emirates, Etihad et al)?
QUOTE: "These are the people along with the unions holding not only QANTAS but there paying passengers to ransom."
And that is now what Qantas is doing to its employees, and its paying passengers.
Look, I'm not on anyones side in this drama which is going to affect more than just the Qantas staff. It's going to affect everyone. The ongoing actions by the unions were hurting the company, and the economy of Australia, and the actions of Qantas management and CEO are going to really hurt the economy, especially the tourist industry which is struggling because of the high dollar and poor weather conditions last summer (especially in QLD), not to mention the GFC. Lets just hope they can get going again soon. The reason for all the quotes above (from this and another, now locked topic) is to float some ideas, and seek to correct some misquotes from others.
I do think it is time that the mods locked this topic as well. Lets not all forget that this forum is about camper trailers, not airline politics. Lets all grab a coldie, chill, and get out there camping.
Cheers
Grant
-
I agree with unions in theory
I've worked in a few manufacturing industries including automotive, FMCG, wine and now the construction industry. I can't say I have ever seen any union do anything constructive to the well being and profitability of any company I've worked for. They seem to have one short term goal which is to get their members more money - period. They are not interested in the long term prospect of the company and it seems like they're happy to meet their objectives by hook or by crook.
I wish I could be less biased, but I reckon the majority of Australian industries would be more productive, efficient, profitable and harmonious without unions.
-
I've worked in a few manufacturing industries including automotive, FMCG, wine and now the construction industry. I can't say I have ever seen any union do anything constructive to the well being and profitability of any company I've worked for. They seem to have one short term goal which is to get their members more money - period. They are not interested in the long term prospect of the company and it seems like they're happy to meet they're objectives by hook or by crook.
I wish I could be less biased, but I reckon the majority of Australian industries would be more productive, efficient, profitable and harmonious without unions.
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
-
Bad timing ( and judgment ) when the pilots ask for increased wages and the boss pleads poor and the very same day gets a $2million pay rise......what the ??
Pilots havent asked for a payrise - they asked that only qantas pilots fly qantas planes
-
To all you people who are saying that they,ve never had a union do anything for them.I sympathize with you,but remember a union is only as strong as its members!!!So perhaps what your saying reflects more on yourselves than any union.My union the ETU introduced EBAS which gave all contractors an level playing field when quoting jobs and i can assure you the only contractors that wer,nt happy withit where the grubby ones that tried to cut corners!!! The decent contractors loved it as it allowed them to plan ahead without worrying about industrial action!!!!
-
I've worked in a few manufacturing industries including automotive, FMCG, wine and now the construction industry. I can't say I have ever seen any union do anything constructive to the well being and profitability of any company I've worked for. They seem to have one short term goal which is to get their members more money - period. They are not interested in the long term prospect of the company and it seems like they're happy to meet their objectives by hook or by crook.
I wish I could be less biased, but I reckon the majority of Australian industries would be more productive, efficient, profitable and harmonious without unions.
X 3
QUOTE: "Well done again to Qantas to standing up to those who are holding them and the country to ransom, there should be more of it"
And that's not what Qantas are doing now??
Yes it is, but it has bought it all to a head and there will be a result in days, not months!
QUOTE: "This recent industrial action had cost Qantas 70 million dollars to date (15 million per day) NO company regardless of size can sustain those losses"
Obviously Qantas can, because the actions of the board (and Joyce) are going to be costing $20 million per day (oh, and the unions actions were costing Qantas $15 million per week, not per day)
Firstly yes it was 15 million $ per week, my mistake and apologies, but the unions industrial action has been going on for months, the action by QANTAS will only last for days, therefore bringing this ongoing dispute this to a quick end, costing less in the long run.
I think this thread should be left open for discussion, it's the posters that need to respect others by not getting personal >:(
bubba :cheers:
-
Pilots havent asked for a payrise - they asked that only qantas pilots fly qantas planes
Yes the pliots have asked for more $, they want a 767 pilot to be paid the same as an A380 pilot, bzzzzt, one plane seats less than 200, one over 400. Want more money fly bigger planes.
It is interesting to hear the Union vitriol today that they won at FWA, they can spin anything no wonder most of them end up in the ALP.
-
In regards to unionism in my experience it all comes down to the particular union involved. Unions have their place, and a lot of the working conditions we have today are the direct result of some union action in the past. HOWEVER many of the unions today have destcructive (rather than constructive) agendas and are pushing for changes that simply don't make sense. You know about these unions because they are in the news.
There are many constructive unions that work well with employers and negotiate fair EBA's for both parties - you don't hear about these ones because it isn't newsworthy.
My word of warning - if your union leader has an english or irish accent, find a different union!
Edit - and people complain about the electrical threads... this topic needs a healthy dose of DC-DC charging with a good wrap of 6B&S...
-
Swamprat, your input was claimed to be factual and the first paragraph was a good read. Then you brought in FIFO miners. Sorry mate, that didn't make sense. Mine operators get good money on volume hours worked. $35/hr is not what I call overpaid.
$35/hr x 84 hrs/week (no penalty rates) = the big money people talk about.
Alan Joyce may or may not be a good CEO but taking a 66% payrise on a salary of $3mil (new salary = $5mil) and claiming the company can't afford to give pay rises to the workers looks more like greed than leadership. Payrises should be awarded on grounds of productivity and inflation. Maybe payrises of workers in companies should be tied to the same percentage increase that executives are awarded.
Cheers
Murray
-
CEO's used to get approx 6 times the average wage of ALL below them. I think personal greed at the top is to blame for this...
-
I think this country is suffering a bad case of the, Green eyed monkey.Fueled by the unions that have to justify there own agenda.
Gone are the days of reward for effort, what ever happened to the days of the harder the work the better the pay?
If you want more money and are not happy with your job just move along or maybe start your own air line or business... no need to hold a business to ransom.
This country's going down the gurgler with the power in the wrong hands.
-
In regards to unionism in my experience it all comes down to the particular union involved. Unions have their place, and a lot of the working conditions we have today are the direct result of some union action in the past
I worked with a bloke who had done his thesis on the Union movement in Australia. We had an interesting discussion on this. Unions did have their place, but that was over 100 years ago when the average worker had no working rights or benefits whatsoever. Modern workers are covered by structured awards, standard levels of pay and conditions.
My current workplace is not unionised. It's the most harmonious place I've ever worked in, although my guys have the option to be in a union, they have chosen not to be. Management and employees work together rather than working against each other.
If we don't look after our staff with annual payrises, competitive benefits and attractive working conditions they will leave go else where - which is not good for the company long term. If the company doesn't meet it's profitability targets, then there isn't much money for payrises and benefits - which is not good for the staff. A simple philosophy which only works if both parties genuinely care about both measures.
I've always held the belief that we all have choices and are in control of our own destinity. If you're not happy with your working conditions, pay rate, pay rise or feel like no-one is listening to you or, have a hang up about how much the CEO or anyone else is getting paid in the organisation - then leave and go find a job with some other company. We all know the grass is always greener elsewhere....
-
Swamprat, your input was claimed to be factual and the first paragraph was a good read. Then you brought in FIFO miners. Sorry mate, that didn't make sense. Mine operators get good money on volume hours worked. $35/hr is not what I call overpaid.
$35/hr x 84 hrs/week (no penalty rates) = the big money people talk about.
Alan Joyce may or may not be a good CEO but taking a 66% payrise on a salary of $3mil (new salary = $5mil) and claiming the company can't afford to give pay rises to the workers looks more like greed than leadership. Payrises should be awarded on grounds of productivity and inflation. Maybe payrises of workers in companies should be tied to the same percentage increase that executives are awarded.
Cheers
Murray
Well said Murray. i am still yet to find a cleaner on over 100K, most in the wets (SA,NT&WA) who work in mining as unskilled labour, like truck drivers, cleaners, shot firers etc, earn around the 30-35 an hour, but put in big hours, to earn the big dollars.
:cheers: Cracka
-
I have no understanding of what is going on and beg ignorance...... ???
BUT...........
I do think its healthy to hear all sides and opinions.
From what I read, hear and summise, I can formulate my own opinions.
If I just listened to what everyone said and didn't argue or debate I would still reckon the earth is flat!!!!
OK some people have a more vocal opinion than others, but if you don't like their opinion ignore it.
I like the debate and have often found myself saying "yeah, I didn't think about that, or look at that opinion"
I believe they call it "learning and understanding"
I reckon if you listen to 10 people, ignore the 2 extremes at each end (cos lets face it, some people are just idiots {Its OK, my father in law doesn't get on myswag}) then use the info in the middle to make an informed decision.
Plus - Bring on the banter...... >:D Its entertaining.
Now to chuck in my uneducated ill informed, but working on it, opinion:
"would you really want to fly in a plane that has outsourced its pilots? If its anything like my Telco, I hope they pack parachutes!!!"
:-X :-X :-X
-
Qantas doesn't want to operate as Qantas, they want to operate as Jetstar primarily and just fly to LA and London as Qantas.
Ding! This is the crux of what is going on at the moment... the industrial action is simply a smokescreen.
-
I think this country is suffering a bad case of the, Green eyed monkey.Fueled by the unions that have to justify there own agenda.
Gone are the days of reward for effort, what ever happened to the days of the harder the work the better the pay?
If you want more money and are not happy with your job just move along or maybe start your own air line or business... no need to hold a business to ransom.
This country's going down the gurgler with the power in the wrong hands.
Well said dno :cup:
-
Well said Murray. i am still yet to find a cleaner on over 100K
:cheers: Cracka
Aaahh sh!t Cracka >:( I had SWMBO give me lessons in how to use a mop, that was a waste of time ;D
bubba :cheers:
-
All I've got is this.
(http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss137/singo-26/Capslock.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Saved. I'm now happy I clicked on this thread. Thanks Singo!
...with a good wrap of 6B&S...
Look up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's...
-
Can't..... breathe...... laughing...... too...... hard...... damn..... you...... Matto!!
-
Symon has been working out :)
-
Never underestimate the power of the 6 B&S!
-
On a serious note Virgin are having a red hot go to poach the business traveller. They recently matched my QF FF status and just sent me a double status credits and miles offer for the rest of the year to encourage me to fly Virgin mixed in an email telling me the number of QF passengers they moved over the weekend.
-
On a serious note Virgin are having a red hot go to poach the business traveller. They recently matched my QF FF status and just sent me a double status credits and miles offer for the rest of the year to encourage me to fly Virgin mixed in an email telling me the number of QF passengers they moved over the weekend.
Watch for the new red paint on the tails of there planes ... ;D
-
Yeah I got that offer as well, funny hey the guy Qantas board passed over (in favour of Joyce) is now the guy doing the most harm to Qantas and poaching there profitable customers.
-
Saved. I'm now happy I clicked on this thread. Thanks Singo!
Look up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's...
Anytime!
:cheers:
-
Some people should go live in a country where unions don't exist. See if they enjoy life without annual, sick, maternity, long service leave etc.
Remember the union is it's members, not the person working for the union. A union official is vote in by the members every 4years, so if the members don't think he is doing his job properly you can vote him out and put some else there.
Without unions the employers would control the work place and you would see the rich get richer and poor get poorer. That's why we are lucky to live in the great country.
-
Some people should go live in a country where unions don't exist. See if they enjoy life without annual, sick, maternity, long service leave etc.
Remember the union is it's members, not the person working for the union. A union official is vote in by the members every 4years, so if the members don't think he is doing his job properly you can vote him out and put some else there.
Without unions the employers would control the work place and you would see the rich get richer and poor get poorer. That's why we are lucky to live in the great country.
It was the unions of old that got those conditions, they are now legislated, as has been said earlier in this post, too many of the unions that get media coverage have destructive agendas. I agree that the union movement has done a lot for this country and the workers, in the past, however, these days they are becoming a hinderance as opposed to an assistance.
:cheers: Cracka
-
It was the unions of old that got those conditions, they are now legislated, as has been said earlier in this post, too many of the unions that get media coverage have destructive agendas. I agree that the union movement has done a lot for this country and the workers, in the past, however, these days they are becoming a hinderance as opposed to an assistance.
:cheers: Cracka
I know of a union that invest the union's money in conjunction with employers association into a training centre that they train workers in that industry to keep up with new technology. So I don't see this as a hinderance but a good way of up skilling people in the industry.
-
Qantas doesn't want to operate as Qantas, they want to operate as Jetstar primarily and just fly to LA and London as Qantas.
in 2006 i met a Qantas pilot on a Faluka on the Nile of all places. he was a pretty nice chap and we talked quite a bit on the cruise, he told me back then it was common knowledge from withing the organisation that Qantas management of that time came to the conclusion that they simply wanted the brand and was happy to paint the insignia on any incarnation of the historic model.
how many people today genuinly beleive Qantus is any safer or reliable than any other airline in the world?
BTW personally i prefer to fly with south east Asian airlines.
-
They seem to have one short term goal which is to get their members more money - period. They are not interested in the long term prospect of the company and it seems like they're happy to meet their objectives by hook or by crook.
I wish I could be less biased, but I reckon the majority of Australian industries would be more productive, efficient, profitable and harmonious without unions.
this except could also read for a couple of managers i have came across in the past. fact is there are unscrupulous people on both sides of the workplace.
-
I know of a union that invest the union's money in conjunction with employers association into a training centre that they train workers in that industry to keep up with new technology. So I don't see this as a hinderance but a good way of up skilling people in the industry.
So do most aussies and we all ask, Is that training centre a brothel and is the new technology a condom? We all know about Craig Thompson mate and requesting kinky Shit isnt Up skilling the sex industry worker/hooker!
-
Just a few facts about QANTAS 1) AIPA union have not and are not striking. Not a single pilot has been on strike and not a single pilot has caused any delays. The only action they have done is wearing red ties and passenger inflight announcements. They have been locked out for this behaviour. 2) The dispute regarding pilots is long haul only. Domestic short haul are not involved and their agreement isn't up for renewal till next year. Yet, Joyce has locked them all out too. Grounding the most profitable part of Qantas, its domestic operations. 3) The dispute is NOT about pay, although all three unions are only asking for pay rises within CPI spread out over 3 years. The reason the 'negotiations' aren't going anywhere is because the unions don't want Qantas turned into a low cost Asia based airline, cut up and destroyed and an Australian icon ruined. The engineers and pilots are concerned about YOUR safety and the reputation and longevity of the Qantas brand, to which they are all very loyal. 4) Alan Joyce was on the Ansett board and destroyed it and he's doing the same to Qantas. Don't believe the media spin he is putting on things. The company is not in 'dire' circumstances as he claims, they have actually posted one of their best profits in the last decade, doubling their profit yearly. Also, if they were really in 'dire' circumstances, any decent leader would not have accepted a 71% pay increase like Joyce did on Friday. Yet Alan Joyce took his $5 million dollar pay and then less than 24hrs later grounded the airline.... that's "taking themoney and running" in a whole new light isn't it? 5) The union strikes have caused a total of 6 hours of delays broken up into 1 hour blocks over months, Joyce's grounding is going on 24 hours.... The union strikes all were done with 72 hours notice and with least impact to passengers, less than 3% of flights were affected. Joyce's grounding has obviously affected 100% of flights. So, if people are pissed about flight interruptions, Joyce is the man to be pissed at, not the unions!!! Share this with your friends, contacts and anyone you think needs to know.
-
BTW personally i prefer to fly with south east Asian airlines.
You wouldnt if you knew more about the Aviation Industry.
-
The union strikes have caused a total of 6 hours of delays broken up into 1 hour blocks over months,
With that spin you should be a union leader. With all the delays and cancellations each strike, you're looking at 6 hours per strike of delays.
-
You wouldnt if you knew more about the Aviation Industry.
ignorance is bliss,
-
ignorance is bliss,
Until you have your head between your legs and kissing your freckle goobye because the plane is going down!
-
Well done QANTAS :cup:
Now hopfully all parties can strike a deal within the 21 day period before FWA have step in again
bubba :cheers:
-
Well done QANTAS :cup:
Now hopfully all parties can strike a deal within the 21 day period before FWA have step in again
bubba :cheers:
Now hopefully all parties can strike a deal within the 21 day period before I have to fly Qantas again
25 days to holidays...it better be over by then
-
Share this with your friends, contacts and anyone you think needs to know.
Mate, just about everything you said there is word for word from the propaganda that the unions are churning out. I would consider only half of it as fact.
According to Qantas, the union demands are listed here - https://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/info/201110/1033
The total cost of the ALAEA’s claim is $165 million - plus $95 million to build a new hangar. Details of the EBA claim from the ALAEA include:
- Around 15 per cent increase in wages and allowances over three years. The remuneration package of the average licensed engineer would be around $170,000 in January 2013 if we agreed to the ALAEA’s claim.
- A guarantee that no changes be made to current work practices including changes which improve productivity or that are in line with developments in modern aircraft technology.
- Introduction of a time serving classification structure where workers receive additional pay increases based on years of service rather than merit or qualifications.
They sound pretty excessive to me, especially the last one. Qantas has every right not to want to such a draconian rule brought back in.
-
Bloody hell Symon, don't come here with all your facts :)
-
Mate, just about everything you said there is word for word from the propaganda that the unions are churning out. I would consider only half of it as fact.
According to Qantas, the union demands are listed here - https://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/info/201110/1033
They sound pretty excessive to me, especially the last one. Qantas has every right not to want to such a draconian rule brought back in.
Yeah and I think you are reading the other propaganda and you believe it :laugh:
-
Doug In regard to points 1 and 2 of your post, Every union i have been a member of has a one in all in policy. It would seem to me that that rule has just been played back on them.
-
Good way to stop this thread is put up a poll and see how many vote Labour or Coalition or bloody Greens or that other w""k"rs
-
Good way to stop this thread is put up a poll and see how many vote Labour or Coalition or bloody Greens or that other w""k"rs
or better yet discuss the issue on its merits rather than what partition background you belong.
-
or better yet discuss the issue on its merits rather than what partition background you belong.
Will never work, as people are swayed by their beliefs, be it religion, politics, dc-dc chargers, cable size
i think its best to stick to issues concerning camping and its merits
-
No one wants to see Qantas end up solely offshore, but everyone is happy to buy all their stuff online from China/ Hong Kong, the USA etc and not give a crap about local jobs, ??? ??? ??? ???
I bet the Qantas flight attendants and crew etc who land in foreign countries and happy to stock up on overseas products for friends and family when they are there just to save a few $$ back home. So why should Qantas be so loyal.
No I don't want to see Qantas go down the drain, I would only ever fly with them and if I was caught up in the dispute as a customer they'd still have my support.
-
Qantas may not have killed any passengers in it's business lifetime, but they sure have lost a few recently.
As for a $2mill pay rise ... Pick Me ... Pick Me. ;D
Kit_e
P.S. I prefer my cable & charger to be adequate for the job and solar ready.
-
Typical of the Greens and ALP to play the man and not the ball.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/pollies-brand-qantas-boss-alan-joyce-as-devious/story-fn7x8me2-1226186239814
"You are a bit like Richard Nixon. You are just trying to talk your way out of this," Senator Cameron said.
Greens Leader Bob Brown said it was "devious" of Mr Joyce to avoid warning the Government of a possible lockout
-
I was wondering whether Senator Cameron was the pot or the kettle?????
-
There is a lot at stake. I wouldn't be happy flying in Russia or quite a few other places in the world at the moment. Do we really value what we have? I doubt it!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/02/russia-crash-drugs-idUSL5E7M21W920111102
-
Typical of the Greens and ALP to play the man and not the ball.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/pollies-brand-qantas-boss-alan-joyce-as-devious/story-fn7x8me2-1226186239814
"You are a bit like Richard Nixon. You are just trying to talk your way out of this," Senator Cameron said.
Greens Leader Bob Brown said it was "devious" of Mr Joyce to avoid warning the Government of a possible lockout
I think it showed again the incompetence of these people. Mr brown calling him devious and deceptive while supporting someone who deceived enough of the Australian public to get herself re-elected (Carbon tax). Why should Mr Joyce inform the Government of what he can do under laws that the government have written. His opening line was incredible "You've spoken to the government and the opposition, So why not the greens?"
As for Mr Cameron. I still fail to see why Mr Joyce's pay packet should be in the public domain, Surely it is something between him, The QANTAS board and the shareholders.
It is also interesting that no Lib/Nat senators were invited.
-
It is funny how this whole senate inquiry was supposed to be about the claims that Qantas is being used to make Jetstar profitable, by handing over routes, paying bills etc. and whether there was any deliberate avoidance of the Qantas sale act 1992. It is a pity that the senators decided to waste time chasing Mr Joyce about the lockout, stand down, as opposed to questioning the potential bigger issues.
-
It is also interesting that no Lib/Nat senators were invited.
I don't think they wanted to ask any questions.
-
If you look at the entire footage of the inquiry (and not just the bits that the media cut in) I thought Joyce held his own quite well, especially against the likes of Cameron and Brown who were full of rhetoric and little else.
Xenophon was the only senator that appeared to have a brain, and I find that quite disturbing.
Reminds me of the time when Packer made the Senate look like a bunch of idiots - http://youtu.be/EVIOmU3l0Zo
-
Good bit of footage.
Kerry was a great Australian, and I wish there were more like him.
-
geez some of you blokes would make genghis khan look like a lefty hippy ;D
-
Youtube footage of the inquiry -
Movie 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXyLayjJ0_Q)
Movie 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbKmB-FFpFU)
Movie 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-8Fv4UzwJk)
Movie 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbbbm0YgnqY)
-
Good bit of footage.
Kerry was a great Australian, and I wish there were more like him.
X2 :cup:
-
Typical, they all have their snouts in the trough
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/critical-mps-accepted-qantas-gifts/story-fn32891l-1226189649099
It is understood Greens Senator Scott Ludlam used his privileges in the Chairman's Lounge on the same day he interrogated Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce at last Friday's Senate inquiry.
-
Typical, they all have their snouts in the trough
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/critical-mps-accepted-qantas-gifts/story-fn32891l-1226189649099
It is understood Greens Senator Scott Ludlam used his privileges in the Chairman's Lounge on the same day he interrogated Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce at last Friday's Senate inquiry.
And this is a shock because?!?!?!?