Aviation in OZ

[Murray]

Swamprat, your input was claimed to be factual and the first paragraph was a good read. Then you brought in FIFO miners. Sorry mate, that didn't make sense. Mine operators get good money on volume hours worked. $35/hr is not what I call overpaid.
$35/hr x 84 hrs/week (no penalty rates) = the big money people talk about.

Alan Joyce may or may not be a good CEO but taking a 66% payrise on a salary of $3mil (new salary = $5mil) and claiming the company can't afford to give pay rises to the workers looks more like greed than leadership. Payrises should be awarded on grounds of productivity and inflation. Maybe payrises of workers in companies should be tied to the same percentage increase that executives are awarded.

Cheers
Murray

[qlddsl]

CEO's used to get approx 6 times the average wage of ALL below them. I think personal greed at the top is to blame for this...

[dno]

I think this country is suffering a bad case of the, Green eyed monkey.Fueled by the unions that have to justify there own agenda.
Gone are the days of reward for effort, what ever happened to the days of the harder the work the better the pay?

If you want more money and are not happy with your job just move along or maybe start your own air line or business... no need to hold a business to ransom.
This country's going down the gurgler with the power in the wrong hands.

[rotare]

In regards to unionism in my experience it all comes down to the particular union involved.  Unions have their place, and a lot of the working conditions we have today are the direct result of some union action in the past

 

I worked with a bloke who had done his thesis on the Union movement in Australia.  We had an interesting discussion on this.  Unions did have their place, but that was over 100 years ago when the average worker had no working rights or benefits whatsoever.  Modern workers are covered by structured awards, standard levels of pay and conditions.

My current workplace is not unionised.  It's the most harmonious place I've ever worked in, although my guys have the option to be in a union, they have chosen not to be.  Management and employees work together rather than working against each other. 

If we don't look after our staff with annual payrises, competitive benefits and attractive working conditions they will leave go else where - which is not good for the company long term.  If the company doesn't meet it's profitability targets, then there isn't much money for payrises and benefits - which is not good for the staff.  A simple philosophy which only works if both parties genuinely care about both measures.

I've always held the belief that we all have choices and are in control of our own destinity.  If you're not happy with your working conditions, pay rate, pay rise or feel like no-one is listening to you or, have a hang up about how much the CEO or anyone else is getting paid in the organisation - then leave and go find a job with some other company.  We all know the grass is always greener elsewhere....     

 

[crackacoldie]

Swamprat, your input was claimed to be factual and the first paragraph was a good read. Then you brought in FIFO miners. Sorry mate, that didn't make sense. Mine operators get good money on volume hours worked. $35/hr is not what I call overpaid.
$35/hr x 84 hrs/week (no penalty rates) = the big money people talk about.

Alan Joyce may or may not be a good CEO but taking a 66% payrise on a salary of $3mil (new salary = $5mil) and claiming the company can't afford to give pay rises to the workers looks more like greed than leadership. Payrises should be awarded on grounds of productivity and inflation. Maybe payrises of workers in companies should be tied to the same percentage increase that executives are awarded.

Cheers
Murray

Well said Murray.  i am still yet to find a cleaner on over 100K, most in the wets (SA,NT&WA) who work in mining as unskilled labour, like truck drivers, cleaners, shot firers etc, earn around the 30-35 an hour, but put in big hours, to earn the big dollars.

  Cracka

[briann532]

I have no understanding of what is going on and beg ignorance......

BUT...........
I do think its healthy to hear all sides and opinions.
From what I read, hear and summise, I can formulate my own opinions.
If I just listened to what everyone said and didn't argue or debate I would still reckon the earth is flat!!!!

OK some people have a more vocal opinion than others, but if you don't like their opinion ignore it.

I like the debate and have often found myself saying "yeah, I didn't think about that, or look at that opinion"
I believe they call it "learning and understanding"

I reckon if you listen to 10 people, ignore the 2 extremes at each end (cos lets face it, some people are just idiots {Its OK, my father in law doesn't get on myswag}) then use the info in the middle to make an informed decision.

Plus - Bring on the banter...... Its entertaining.

Now to chuck in my uneducated ill informed, but working on it, opinion:

"would you really want to fly in a plane that has outsourced its pilots? If its anything like my Telco, I hope they pack parachutes!!!"

 

[Squalo]

Qantas doesn't want to operate as Qantas, they want to operate as Jetstar primarily and just fly to LA and London as Qantas.

Ding! This is the crux of what is going on at the moment... the industrial action is simply a smokescreen.

[Heiny]

I think this country is suffering a bad case of the, Green eyed monkey.Fueled by the unions that have to justify there own agenda.
Gone are the days of reward for effort, what ever happened to the days of the harder the work the better the pay?

If you want more money and are not happy with your job just move along or maybe start your own air line or business... no need to hold a business to ransom.
This country's going down the gurgler with the power in the wrong hands.

Well said dno

[Heiny]

Well said Murray.  i am still yet to find a cleaner on over 100K
  Cracka

Aaahh sh!t Cracka I had SWMBO give me lessons in how to use a mop, that was a waste of time

bubba

[Matto]

All I've got is this.


 

Saved. I'm now happy I clicked on this thread. Thanks Singo!

...with a good wrap of 6B&S...

Look up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's...

[Symon]

Can't..... breathe...... laughing...... too...... hard...... damn..... you...... Matto!!

[D4D]

Symon has been working out

[Symon]

Never underestimate the power of the 6 B&S!

[D4D]

On a serious note Virgin are having a red hot go to poach the business traveller. They recently matched my QF FF status and just sent me a double status credits and miles offer for the rest of the year to encourage me to fly Virgin mixed in an email telling me the number of QF passengers they moved over the weekend.

[dno]

On a serious note Virgin are having a red hot go to poach the business traveller. They recently matched my QF FF status and just sent me a double status credits and miles offer for the rest of the year to encourage me to fly Virgin mixed in an email telling me the number of QF passengers they moved over the weekend.

Watch for the new red paint on the tails of there planes ...

[achjimmy]

Yeah I got that offer as well, funny hey the guy Qantas board passed over (in favour of Joyce) is now the guy doing the most harm to Qantas and poaching there profitable customers.

[singo-26]

Saved. I'm now happy I clicked on this thread. Thanks Singo!

Look up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's...

Anytime!
 

[Doug.b]

Some people should go live in a country where unions don't exist. See if they enjoy life without annual, sick, maternity, long service leave etc.
Remember the union is it's members, not the person working for the union. A union official is vote in by the members every 4years, so if the members don't think he is doing his job properly you can vote him out and put some else there.
Without unions the employers would control the work place and you would see the rich get richer and poor get poorer. That's why we are lucky to live in the great country.

[crackacoldie]

Some people should go live in a country where unions don't exist. See if they enjoy life without annual, sick, maternity, long service leave etc.
Remember the union is it's members, not the person working for the union. A union official is vote in by the members every 4years, so if the members don't think he is doing his job properly you can vote him out and put some else there.
Without unions the employers would control the work place and you would see the rich get richer and poor get poorer. That's why we are lucky to live in the great country.

It was the unions of old that got those conditions, they are now legislated, as has been said earlier in this post, too many of the unions that get media coverage have destructive agendas.  I agree that the union movement has done a lot for this country and the workers, in the past, however, these days they are becoming a hinderance as opposed to an assistance. 

  Cracka

[Doug.b]

It was the unions of old that got those conditions, they are now legislated, as has been said earlier in this post, too many of the unions that get media coverage have destructive agendas.  I agree that the union movement has done a lot for this country and the workers, in the past, however, these days they are becoming a hinderance as opposed to an assistance. 

  Cracka

I know of a union that invest the union's money in conjunction with employers association into a training centre that they train workers in that industry to keep up with new technology. So I don't see this as a hinderance but a good way of up skilling people in the industry.

[koshari]

Qantas doesn't want to operate as Qantas, they want to operate as Jetstar primarily and just fly to LA and London as Qantas.

in 2006 i met a Qantas pilot on a Faluka on the Nile of all places. he was a pretty nice chap and we talked quite a bit on the cruise, he told me back then it was common knowledge from withing the organisation that Qantas management of that time came to the conclusion that they simply wanted the brand and was happy to paint the insignia on any incarnation of the historic model.

how many people today genuinly beleive Qantus is any safer or reliable than any other airline in the world?

BTW personally i prefer to fly with south east Asian airlines.

[koshari]

 They seem to have one short term goal which is to get their members more money - period.  They are not interested in the long term prospect of the company and it seems like they're happy to meet their objectives by hook or by crook.

I wish I could be less biased, but I reckon the majority of Australian industries would be more productive, efficient, profitable and harmonious without unions.

this except could also read for a couple of managers i have came across in the past. fact is there are unscrupulous people on both sides of the workplace.

[Flemo]

I know of a union that invest the union's money in conjunction with employers association into a training centre that they train workers in that industry to keep up with new technology. So I don't see this as a hinderance but a good way of up skilling people in the industry.

So do most aussies and we all ask, Is that training centre a brothel and is the new technology a condom? We all know about Craig Thompson mate and requesting kinky Shit isnt Up skilling the sex industry worker/hooker!

[Doug.b]

Just a few facts about QANTAS 1) AIPA union have not and are not striking. Not a single pilot has been on strike and not a single pilot has caused any delays. The only action they have done is wearing red ties and passenger inflight announcements. They have been locked out for this behaviour. 2) The dispute regarding pilots is long haul only. Domestic short haul are not involved and their agreement isn't up for renewal till next year. Yet, Joyce has locked them all out too. Grounding the most profitable part of Qantas, its domestic operations. 3) The dispute is NOT about pay, although all three unions are only asking for pay rises within CPI spread out over 3 years. The reason the 'negotiations' aren't going anywhere is because the unions don't want Qantas turned into a low cost Asia based airline, cut up and destroyed and an Australian icon ruined. The engineers and pilots are concerned about YOUR safety and the reputation and longevity of the Qantas brand, to which they are all very loyal. 4) Alan Joyce was on the Ansett board and destroyed it and he's doing the same to Qantas. Don't believe the media spin he is putting on things. The company is not in 'dire' circumstances as he claims, they have actually posted one of their best profits in the last decade, doubling their profit yearly. Also, if they were really in 'dire' circumstances, any decent leader would not have accepted a 71% pay increase like Joyce did on Friday. Yet Alan Joyce took his $5 million dollar pay and then less than 24hrs later grounded the airline.... that's "taking themoney and running" in a whole new light isn't it? 5) The union strikes have caused a total of 6 hours of delays broken up into 1 hour blocks over months, Joyce's grounding is going on 24 hours.... The union strikes all were done with 72 hours notice and with least impact to passengers, less than 3% of flights were affected. Joyce's grounding has obviously affected 100% of flights. So, if people are pissed about flight interruptions, Joyce is the man to be pissed at, not the unions!!! Share this with your friends, contacts and anyone you think needs to know.

[achjimmy]

BTW personally i prefer to fly with south east Asian airlines.

You wouldnt if you knew more about the Aviation Industry.