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Author Topic: Interesting read on electric cars  (Read 225320 times)

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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #975 on: January 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM »
I have ordered our EV.
Can't wait to drive it and not getting into a queue for petrol.
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #976 on: January 17, 2024, 04:01:03 PM »
Quote from: WilSurf on January 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM
I have ordered our EV.
Can't wait to drive it and not getting into a queue for petrol.

No, just join the queue for charging.  >:D
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #977 on: January 17, 2024, 04:23:03 PM »
No need for as we will be charging at home.
It will be used in the city.
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #978 on: January 17, 2024, 10:34:22 PM »
Quote from: WilSurf on January 17, 2024, 04:23:03 PM
No need for as we will be charging at home.
It will be used in the city.

Makes sense under the circumstances-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKQi3ELYbVk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgUieFv7kGg
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #979 on: January 18, 2024, 10:35:30 AM »
So even with their subsidised refuelling stations expensive EVs don't stack up on the highway-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12971877/Auto-website-CarExperts-Sydney-Melbourne-road-trip-reveals-shocking-truth-EVs-cheaper-run-petrol-cars.html
and while Australian ICE car owners pay 53.68c/litre incl GST doing that the freeloading by well to do EV owners can't continue-
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/506914/changes-to-road-user-charges-will-see-ev-owners-paying-more-climate-expert-says
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #980 on: January 18, 2024, 01:27:33 PM »
That's correct when you use public fast chargers.
It changes when you use your home power.
In WA it's $0.27per kW, if you are using solar it's "costing" you $0.07 because you don't get the tariff.
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Offline sparksy

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #981 on: January 18, 2024, 09:48:56 PM »
Honeymoon might be over for EV charging. Evie , one of Australias largest charging providers is going to increase charge cost by 42% this month. 
https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/motoring/major-provider-zaps-electric-car-owners-with-higher-rates-c-13188373
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #982 on: January 18, 2024, 10:46:43 PM »
Quote from: WilSurf on January 18, 2024, 01:27:33 PM

In WA it's $0.27per kW, if you are using solar it's "costing" you $0.07 because you don't get the tariff.

Wilsurf, can u explain that statement a bit better please?
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #983 on: January 19, 2024, 10:59:09 AM »
Very simple.
When you charge at home without solar, I would pay $0.280109 per kW.
That's the tariff I am on in WA.
However because I have solar, when I charge during the day I am not importing electricty meaning it doesn't cost $0.280109 per kW.
But because I charge I am not exporting the electricity generated to the grid either.
That would have paid me $0.07135 per kW.

So in summary, every kW charging the EV at home during the day when I generate electricity with my solar panels, it will increase my power bill by $0.7135 for each kW I charge.
In case of the car we are getting which has a 60.4kW battery, a full charge from 0-100% will add $16.92

Hope that makes sense.
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #984 on: January 19, 2024, 03:57:34 PM »
The easiest comparison twixt ICE and EV is of course the MG Excite auto range with the ICE version $23990 drive away while the ZSEV version is $41990 but in SA you'd have to add $1876 to drive away with 3 months rego so a price difference of $19876. So Grandpa Fred just left you $24k or you were a good saver and typically you drive 15000kms a year. So at 7.1L/100k average at say $2/litre that will be $2130 for a year's fuel. Now the EV will typically consume 16kWhrs per 100kms (plug to wheel) and at my SA peak price of 50c/kWhr that will cost $1200 fuel for the year.

But alas grandpa Fred only left $24k so a car loan at 8% on the $19876 difference costs me another $1590 a year. Might cut that down to 6% redrawing on the home mortgage if available but that's still $1192 and also paying back that principal. That's before our enthusiastic climate changing car buyer begins to think about the biggie in depreciation and then insurance servicing tyres etc.
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #985 on: January 19, 2024, 04:42:31 PM »
Glad I am not living in SA with $0.50 per kW.
So I am already saving 44% compared to you IF I charge when the sun isn't shining.
Using your calculation my EV would cost $672 for fuel IF I only charge when the sun isn't shining.
When using the solar panels, is cost me nothing but I am not getting the $168 solar export price.
If I take that into acount, 15,000km each year will cost me $168.
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Offline Hairs

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #986 on: January 19, 2024, 05:06:51 PM »
Question for all you learned lot about batteries.
So, what don't batteries like?
Heat, Cold, constant draw over and over. Is that correct?
Now, What do batteries like?



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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #987 on: January 19, 2024, 05:58:45 PM »
Being used; charging and drawn from.
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Offline Hairs

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #988 on: January 19, 2024, 06:47:01 PM »
Quote from: WilSurf on January 19, 2024, 05:58:45 PM
Being used; charging and drawn from.
And being replaced.
Sorry, suppliers love you to replace them.

Just going by my experience using 18V lithium power tool batteries.
I have 8, 5amp. I cycle them through, recharge, religiously, just in the last month I have had two fail, won't take a charge. They are only 24 months old.
$189.00 a pop, $8 a month.
Sure I can claim on tax, but I still have to outlay the purchase.

So who has had to replace batteries in their EV?
What's that cost.

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Offline Hairs

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #989 on: January 19, 2024, 07:06:36 PM »
What I can gather is Australia has very little ability to recycle lithium batteries.
2 years ago, only 10% of lithium batteries was recycled. Yes, this is increasing, unfortunately most still goes to land fill.
Kinda ironic, since it was dug out of the ground, it's thrown back in.
Yes, some are stored, for when it becomes efficient to recycle.

I guess like solar panels, wind turbine blades.



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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #990 on: January 20, 2024, 12:37:57 AM »
Well Wilsurf you say-
Glad I am not living in SA with $0.50 per kW.
Well you will be when you have to get on those cheap renewables instead of the coal and gas-
https://www.synergy.net.au/Blog/2022/06/What-makes-up-the-electricity-generation-mix-in-Western-Australia
and it's pretty hard for working commuters to charge their EVs at home during the day even with solar on the rooftop.

So say you're retired like me and you can? But what you forgot to cost in was the $5000 to $6000 worth of say 5kW rooftop solar plus $1500 of home charger install and the opportunity cost of those funds. Not a problem for me but what about those working families with mortgages or renters? Bearing in mind they're reducing the rooftop solar subsidy by $500/year until it's full user pays and they're no doubt working on how to make up for lost fuel excise at 53.68c/litre currently. You wouldn't last long in biz ignoring some capital costs and their opportunity cost of funds as well as their depreciation.
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #991 on: January 20, 2024, 01:34:43 AM »
Quote from: WilSurf on January 19, 2024, 10:59:09 AM
Very simple.
When you charge at home without solar, I would pay $0.280109 per kW.
That's the tariff I am on in WA.
However because I have solar, when I charge during the day I am not importing electricty meaning it doesn't cost $0.280109 per kW.
But because I charge I am not exporting the electricity generated to the grid either.
That would have paid me $0.07135 per kW.

So in summary, every kW charging the EV at home during the day when I generate electricity with my solar panels, it will increase my power bill by $0.7135 for each kW I charge.
In case of the car we are getting which has a 60.4kW battery, a full charge from 0-100% will add $16.92

Hope that makes sense.

Sorry mate, not really. I live in WA too, have roof top solar since about 2015 with same import/export cost.
I sort of agree with some but not your summary.
Not importing electricity during the day though, needs some clarification.
How big in terms of consumption is the rating of the EV battery charger you are planning to install use?
Are you saying you can run your household and charge the EV without importing mains power? (365 day a year)
In your summary I do not understand why your power bill will rise 7 cents per kW when charging the EV.
I cannot see how you arrive at $16.92 for a full charge.
I am not trying to be difficult, rather just understand your post.
If I consume mains power it costs 27cents per kW. What happens to the kW's my solar produces are either consumed by my combined electrical appliances or exported to the grid for a whole 7c per kW.
Cant see why it would be any different in your case.
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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #992 on: January 20, 2024, 05:55:27 AM »
Genuine questions....sorry if they've already been covered...

Can a home EV charger be configured to charge only from the rooftop solar?

If yes, how does it manage the variation in solar output during the day due to sun angle and cloud cover?

A charge rate that continually ramps up and down can't be good for batteries....

 :cheers:
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Offline Brij

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #993 on: January 20, 2024, 06:43:08 AM »
Quote from: RebsWA on January 20, 2024, 01:34:43 AM
Sorry mate, not really. I live in WA too, have roof top solar since about 2015 with same import/export cost.
I sort of agree with some but not your summary.
Not importing electricity during the day though, needs some clarification.
How big in terms of consumption is the rating of the EV battery charger you are planning to install use?
Are you saying you can run your household and charge the EV without importing mains power? (365 day a year)
In your summary I do not understand why your power bill will rise 7 cents per kW when charging the EV.
I cannot see how you arrive at $16.92 for a full charge.
I am not trying to be difficult, rather just understand your post.
If I consume mains power it costs 27cents per kW. What happens to the kW's my solar produces are either consumed by my combined electrical appliances or exported to the grid for a whole 7c per kW.
Cant see why it would be any different in your case.

Re the "cost" of $0.07/kw -
I assume this works on the premise that whilst you are exporting power you end up with $0.07/kw in your pocket, but whilst charging your EV you don't, so it is money you would of got, but now you don't.

But if you convert this cost to $/km of travel and compare to $/km of travel for ICE then I expect you would be better of, but hard to ignore the capital cost of EV.
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #994 on: January 20, 2024, 08:28:00 AM »
Quote from: GeoffA on January 20, 2024, 05:55:27 AM
Genuine questions....sorry if they've already been covered...

Can a home EV charger be configured to charge only from the rooftop solar?

If yes, how does it manage the variation in solar output during the day due to sun angle and cloud cover?

A charge rate that continually ramps up and down can't be good for batteries....

 :cheers:

No rooftop solar works in 2 ways with net grid metering. It either reduces the cost of kWhrs your total home is consuming while it's generating or if it's exceeding consumption you're getting the FIT rate for the excess at the time. Whether your home is on single phase or 3 phase each phase needs to be 240V and 50Hz for whatever is operating on them and in that sense your solar inverter is reactive to the grid input and cannot input any power when the grid is down or indeed badly out of whack with voltage and frequency.(why they want to throttle your solar remotely if too many are causing that)
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Offline Hairs

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #995 on: January 20, 2024, 03:43:22 PM »
Watched an interesting article, sorry can't find the link
As I had mentioned in an earlier post, society is being more reliant on electricity.
The article was about DATA storage.
Everything we do, we rely on an electric powered device.
Gps, traffic lights, office. Homes are becoming dependent on technology. Lights, fridges, TV's Internet, phones, banks, service stations, charging stations all use and collect DATA.
Companies are building huge data complex's to store this data.
The power needed to cool this is a massive amount of power, which the Grid struggles to supply at the moment.
And there is the added supply to charge vehicles
Solar & wind, are they capable of supplying this demand?

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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #996 on: January 20, 2024, 07:05:17 PM »
Whatever you choose for your family fully understand the risk of lithium battery runaway- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIXTP-TgPEw
Should you see any hint of runaway then run like Hell away from it and upwind yelling for others to do the same.
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #997 on: January 20, 2024, 09:07:18 PM »
The penetration of light mobility vehicles and their increasing threat to life and limb is a portent of what's to come with much larger incendiary batteries in massed electric cars-
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/jan/16/adelaide-mobility-scooter-fire-man-death-crestview-retirement-village
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/overseas-visitors-make-lucky-escape-after-e-bike-battery-blaze/vi-AA1nd9Am
The climate changers have to face the bleeding obvious before a Grenfell Towers incident but in any case insurance underwriters will soon call time on their indolence with prohibitive premiums.
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Offline Pottsy

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #998 on: January 21, 2024, 02:49:06 PM »
Its coming soon.
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Offline Hairs

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #999 on: January 21, 2024, 04:23:02 PM »
Hahaha, you beat me to it.
Was just about to post it.


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