Police checking for Mods, Sth East QLD

[KingBilly]

This is a press release from 4WD QLD released today regarding these issues. Gives some background into what's happened and what they (4WD QLD)are trying to address on your behalf.


4WD QLD Press Release

Just spent some time reading this press release.  Lots of misinformation in it.  Be wary of some advice contained within it.

KB

[Rumpig]

I saw something come through Facebook yesterday and apparently the cops did a blitz in the Glasshouse Mountains on Sunday and got a fair share of illegally raised 4WD's plus a number of unregistered 4WD's & Bikes.  I've only been to Glasshouse a couple of times, but it's a magnet for older Patrols/Hilux's which require a step ladder to get in.

my wife was telling me lastnight that a chick at her work went down The Goldy with her boyfriend on the weekend to take thier boat out fishing...they had a check going on at the boat ramp that they went to (don’t know which it was), everything was weighed and thier boat found to be 100kg over thier limit, so it had to go home on a tilt tray apparently.

[Aaron Schubert]

ESC vehicles can have a 50mm lift of either tyres, suspension or blocks but not a combination thereof before needing to be assessed and certified. Well for any state signed up to the NCOP which is most of them.

That's what I have heard. I can't see the difference between a 50mm suspension lift and a 25mm tyre/25mm suspension lift to justify it though.

What happens if you have an approved GVM kit, which has larger tyres on the placard, and also lifts the vehicle by about 25m? Still legal?

Aaron

[Bird]

That's what I have heard. I can't see the difference between a 50mm suspension lift and a 25mm tyre/25mm suspension lift to justify it though.

What happens if you have an approved GVM kit, which has larger tyres on the placard, and also lifts the vehicle by about 25m? Still legal?

Aaron

or portal axles

[GBC]

That's what I have heard. I can't see the difference between a 50mm suspension lift and a 25mm tyre/25mm suspension lift to justify it though.

What happens if you have an approved GVM kit, which has larger tyres on the placard, and also lifts the vehicle by about 25m? Still legal?

Aaron

Yes, because it is placarded. That clause in the NCOP only states how far you can go before needing to get your car assessed. Quite often it is no big deal to get it assessed and plated as you have done, but people just don't bother.

[Steffo1]

my wife was telling me lastnight that a chick at her work went down The Goldy with her boyfriend on the weekend to take thier boat out fishing...they had a check going on at the boat ramp that they went to (don’t know which it was), everything was weighed and thier boat found to be 100kg over thier limit, so it had to go home on a tilt tray apparently.

Must be a largish vessel or a small tug. My 6 metre Sportfish came in around 2.3 tonne, fully loaded.

[Craig Tomkinson]

Hi Gents, So are 265 x 16 ATs tires and a 50mm coil spring lift that may have sagged a bit after 4 years, with no body lift is that going to be legal on my 1990 80 series, It must be close as my spedo is still 4ks reading out as I have to be doing 104 to be doing 100ks by Gps,with new tires and 105 or 6 if the tires are half worn out,  Thanks Craig

[tryagain]

Hi Gents, So are 265 x 16 ATs tires and a 50mm coil spring lift that may have sagged a bit after 4 years, with no body lift is that going to be legal on my 1990 80 series, It must be close as my spedo is still 4ks reading out as I have to be doing 104 to be doing 100ks by Gps,with new tires and 105 or 6 if the tires are half worn out,  Thanks Craig

Suspension lift should be ok, what is standard tyre size and are your 265 x??? 16 o just straight 265 x 16

[Steffo1]

Hi Gents, So are 265 x 16 ATs tires and a 50mm coil spring lift that may have sagged a bit after 4 years, with no body lift is that going to be legal on my 1990 80 series, It must be close as my spedo is still 4ks reading out as I have to be doing 104 to be doing 100ks by Gps,with new tires and 105 or 6 if the tires are half worn out,  Thanks Craig

Craig, I reckon your 80 would have the same tyre rating as my old 'tilley. This is my placard. No profile dimension mentioned so, should that even be taken into account?

A real bureaucratic  mish mash really.

Steve

[edz]

  https://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Tire-Size-Calculator    From a LandRover forum

" in short a 7.50R16 is about 31.64 inch and a 235/85/16 is about 31.72 inch, pretty much the same theoretically "
Whats the side wall ratio CT   "  265 X ?? X R 16
https://tiresize.com/comparison/

[Beachman]

Must be a largish vessel or a small tug. My 6 metre Sportfish came in around 2.3 tonne, fully loaded.

Maybe the boat is on a trailer that wasn't designed/registered for the weight of a the boat?  IE: The trailer can carry up to 1200 kgs and the boat weighs 1300kgs.

[Aaron Schubert]

Yes, because it is placarded. That clause in the NCOP only states how far you can go before needing to get your car assessed. Quite often it is no big deal to get it assessed and plated as you have done, but people just don't bother.

Cheers for the information. The ironic thing is that I only got it signed off through ARB because of the GVM upgrade. The original plan was just to fit bigger tyres and their 30mm suspension kit, staying within the 50mm maximum roof height increase. It was only because of the paperwork/engineering side of the GVM upgrade (the kit is exactly the same) that it got signed off.

Aaron

[GBC]

Hi Gents, So are 265 x 16 ATs tires and a 50mm coil spring lift that may have sagged a bit after 4 years, with no body lift is that going to be legal on my 1990 80 series, It must be close as my spedo is still 4ks reading out as I have to be doing 104 to be doing 100ks by Gps,with new tires and 105 or 6 if the tires are half worn out,  Thanks Craig

You are fine Craig. No VSC and no IFS you get 75mm in combination.

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/G19.pdf?la=en

[PWE]

I wonder it the show pony LC79’s will arrive at the shows on trucks  since all of the Patriot, JMacx, Marks portals, ect ones does not comply with the different lift options

[MDS69]

I wonder how it past the roadworthy then for to transfer?
That's another issue that needs to be resolved.

NSW don’t require rego inspections for the first 5 years of a new vehicle.

[briann532]

So with that logic, I know how to switch a light on, does that make me qualified enough to rewire your house??

Yep, In Sydney it does!!!!
 

Back in my box!

[Bird]

Love to see what they thought of my 6+in suspension, 2in body lifted and 35's on my old GQ passed the swerve test - the lot = Fully Engineered

Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..

[Rumpig]

Must be a largish vessel or a small tug. My 6 metre Sportfish came in around 2.3 tonne, fully loaded.

I don't think the boat is that big (if it's the one I have pics of them fishing on previously), so reckon the tug is on the smaller side or like Beachman said, maybe trailer not up to the task....when I see the chick next I'll certainly be quizzing her more on what the go was.

[Steffo1]

Maybe the boat is on a trailer that wasn't designed/registered for the weight of a the boat?  IE: The trailer can carry up to 1200 kgs and the boat weighs 1300kgs.

If that's the reason,  a fair decision then.

[driordon]

ESC vehicles can have a 50mm lift of either tyres, suspension or blocks but not a combination thereof before needing to be assessed and certified. Well for any state signed up to the NCOP which is most of them.

No not in Qld, this is where the confusion is coming in because they are now referring to the Qld code of practice instead of the national code. It's all in the wording a vehicle without VSC is considered a vehicle lift, a vehicle with VSC its called a suspension lift and larger tyres would require engineer approval. 

The following information provides some general guidance about raising a vehicle’s height
Without ESC-
A vehicle lift up to and including 75mm combining both suspension lift and tyre diameter increase (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm) is acceptable under self-certification.
A vehicle lift between 76mm and 125mm inclusive, combining a suspension lift, a tyre diameter increase and a body lift (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body lift 50mm) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
With ESC
A suspension lift up to and including 50mm is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift over 50 mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the height of the vehicle but more the operation of the VSC as VSC work by applying brake pressure to the wheel that requires it, obviously if you go changing the rolling diameter of the wheel more braking force will be required to stop it but the VSC computer is not smart enough to recognise this on the operation of the VSC will be hampered.

The whole thing has been poorly handled but with Xmas parties fast approaching some departments obviously need a it of extra revenue.

[#jonesy]

Love to see what they thought of my 6+in suspension, 2in body lifted and 35's on my old GQ passed the swerve test - the lot = Fully Engineered

Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..

That's the whole point. You can go up to the limit without an engineer. If you end to go beyond that then you need an engineer. Everyone is getting hung up on the idea that is is automatically a death trap 1mm above the limit. It just means it is not legal above that. (without engineer)

[GBC]

No not in Qld, this is where the confusion is coming in because they are now referring to the Qld code of practice instead of the national code. It's all in the wording a vehicle without VSC is considered a vehicle lift, a vehicle with VSC its called a suspension lift and larger tyres would require engineer approval. 

The following information provides some general guidance about raising a vehicle’s height
Without ESC-
A vehicle lift up to and including 75mm combining both suspension lift and tyre diameter increase (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm) is acceptable under self-certification.
A vehicle lift between 76mm and 125mm inclusive, combining a suspension lift, a tyre diameter increase and a body lift (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body lift 50mm) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
With ESC
A suspension lift up to and including 50mm is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift over 50 mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the height of the vehicle but more the operation of the VSC as VSC work by applying brake pressure to the wheel that requires it, obviously if you go changing the rolling diameter of the wheel more braking force will be required to stop it but the VSC computer is not smart enough to recognise this on the operation of the VSC will be hampered.

The whole thing has been poorly handled but with Xmas parties fast approaching some departments obviously need a it of extra revenue.

That is not what I have been told or what is being practised by the major tyre companies we have accounts with. All our fleet utes get a size bigger tyres without question. I’ll follow up. The link I posted was straight from the TMR Qld G19.9 Minor Modifications Document, not the NCOP.

EDIT: The Qld cope of Practice only deals with assessable lifts higher than 50mm - LS9 and LS10 certification.

[doc evil]

<snip>

Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..

That's the point I've been trying to make!!

No not in Qld, this is where the confusion is coming in because they are now referring to the Qld code of practice instead of the national code.

 <snip>

The whole thing has been poorly handled but with Xmas parties fast approaching some departments obviously need a it of extra revenue.

Exactly!! QLD are using their own rules and not VSB14 (or ADR's for that matter) which is the national code and lining their pockets by making us PROVE we comply with VSB14 (or the ADR's).

From VSB14.

INTENT AND PURPOSE
VSB 14 has been prepared to provide guidance for those who intend to manufacture an
Individually Constructed Vehicle (ICV) or to carry out light vehicle modifications. Its ultimate aim
is to ensure that each completed vehicle is safe for use on the road and that the level of safety
afforded by a vehicle to its passengers and other road users is not compromised by any
modifications.
One of the principal aims of the VSB 14 project is to provide a nationally acceptable set of
technical specifications that ensure that the manufacture of ICVs and the modification of
production vehicles comply with the applicable requirements of the Australian Design Rules
(ADRs) and the AVSR.
Compliance with VSB 14 requirements will help ensure that work undertaken satisfies the
regulatory requirements of jurisdictions.

[tryagain]

Love to see what they thought of my 6+in suspension, 2in body lifted and 35's on my old GQ passed the swerve test - the lot = Fully Engineered

Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..

Of course the engineer is, and if had signed off on it being OK then they would have just let you go, simples.

[doc evil]

Of course the engineer is, and if had signed off on it being OK then they would have just let you go, simples.

As soon as you say, "but that is blue plated sir", I can guarantee you that the fine toothed comb will come out and more of your time will be wasted because you are now considered a smartass.......... and if there is a bit of mud where it shouldn't be, off to DOT you go!!

Nothing to do with the fact that you are dragged off the road and away from where you were going under the "assumption" your vehicle "looks" illegal!!