Don't run yellow lights

[JusyApples]

But thats the whole discussion isn't it. Interpretation is open to interpretation.  That's what Poita was saying, what he sees as safe might not be what the officer sees as safe. You are always going to have disagreement when rules are left open for interpretation and badge will win everytime i guess

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

There is a difference between a fresh amber and late amber almost red. Lots of traffic laws are open to interpretation. NSW highway cars have footage albeit not great and if you honestly believe you haven't done anything wrong you have the right to contest the matter in court

[Poita]

The law is simple and clear. Amber means stop as long as it's safe to do so.
If you are too close to stop on the amber you don't need to accelerate to beat the red. Just keep going at the speed you were travelling at.
If you have enough time to accelerate to beat the red, you certainly have enough time to stop.
The problem is that when the lights turn amber, most of us are thinking about whether we can beat the red (because we don't WANT to stop), rather than if we can safely stop.

But you have missed the point. Who is behind you? What sort of car are you driving? What speed are you going how far from the line? All these impact your decision as a mature adult (i.e. able to make a sensible decision based on a number of factors) as to whether to stop or not (not speaking of accelerating as then you would most likely be speeding).
So it's not simple. If I have a small new car behind me at a sensible distance behind, I will most likely stop. If I have a B Double behind me I am more likely to push through the orange as I know they take longer to pull up. Chuck in a heap or rain and it all changes again.

This is why I don't like random strangers who have never driven my car, or assessed who was behind me etc having the power to fine me a significant amount of money. If I want to fight that I then need to spend more money, loose time off of work etc.

The simple one is if you run a red. Running a yellow is far from simple, but attracts a disproportionate fine in my opinion. You are no longer allowed to use your brain like an adult, but are at the mercy of a person who has the power to make you financially uncomfortable based purely on a very shaky opinion.

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

If you stop and end up past the stop line, and in the intersection, it wasn't safe to stop.
If you enter an intersection you are obliged to clear it, and travel on.

[paceman]

The law is simple and clear. Amber means stop as long as it's safe to do so.

the law might be, but as others have pointed out, it's application most definitely is not.

everyone here knows the rule, that's not in dispute.

there are many variables, some known, some unknown, that all come into play in this decision.

roads that have just been lightly rained on are my worry point with amber lights... the light rain brings up all of the oil in the road, as well as making smooth bitumen very slick.

i know if i can stop or not.  the cops do not.  don't know how many times i have seen people try to stop in these conditions and end up in the middle of the intersection... some have been hit, some haven't...

the law might be simple, but the officer judging might be too...

[Pottsy]

so who gets a ticket here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZX1dQOLp6E

Car in lane two had plenty of time to stop, lane three looks like in attention, fail to drive with due care or whatever they call it, 2nd car and coppers should receive tickets IMHO but I know there will be some who disagree and that's fine, because what I think doesn't make one iota of difference I'm not issuing the fine or a magistrate.

[JusyApples]

the law might be, but as others have pointed out, it's application most definitely is not.

everyone here knows the rule, that's not in dispute.

there are many variables, some known, some unknown, that all come into play in this decision.

roads that have just been lightly rained on are my worry point with amber lights... the light rain brings up all of the oil in the road, as well as making smooth bitumen very slick.

i know if i can stop or not.  the cops do not.  don't know how many times i have seen people try to stop in these conditions and end up in the middle of the intersection... some have been hit, some haven't...

the law might be simple, but the officer judging might be too...

You don't think before issuing a fine an officer would take these things into consideration

[nab]

Doesn't really matter if you run through an orange light or not, I'm on the road all the time and I'm lucky to see a police car once a month so there is no-one there to book me anyway hahaha!!!

[gronk]

There is a difference between a fresh amber and late amber almost red. Lots of traffic laws are open to interpretation. NSW highway cars have footage albeit not great and if you honestly believe you haven't done anything wrong you have the right to contest the matter in court

Most haven't the time or money to contest something in court.

Even though it MIGHT be open to interpretation, once the cop has written the ticket, it is no longer open to discussion.

[JusyApples]

Car in lane two had plenty of time to stop, lane three looks like in attention, fail to drive with due care or whatever they call it, 2nd car and coppers should receive tickets IMHO but I know there will be some who disagree and that's fine, because what I think doesn't make one iota of difference I'm not issuing the fine or a magistrate.

Only 1 at fault. The driver of parramatta 17

[JusyApples]

Most haven't the time or money to contest something in court.

Even though it MIGHT be open to interpretation, once the cop has written the ticket, it is no longer open to discussion.

You can contest a ticket for free in court. Only costing work time but then again you could save yourself the cost of the fine if you win.

[gronk]

You don't think before issuing a fine an officer would take these things into consideration

He MIGHT, if he is a normal thinking human being. BUT, the hwy patrol blokes have been known to be "different".....

[gronk]

You can contest a ticket for free in court. Only costing work time but then again you could save yourself the cost of the fine if you win.

IF you win.  With no evidence, it's your word against his !! We all know how that goes.

[macca]

I dont really disagree with you Jusy, I've been driving for 47 years and as yet have not had a fine for it, not saying i havent made a mistake in judgement from time to time, but in these times of "dont give a Shit attitude" i personally dont think there is room for these types of rules, after all a red light camera doesnt get to make a judgement. From what i understand, in Victoria anyway,  if you enter the intersection one second after the light has turned red then, simple you get a ticket. Thats a clear and simple law

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Rumpig]

You can contest a ticket for free in court. Only costing work time but then again you could save yourself the cost of the fine if you win.

not like they reimburse self employed people for thier days off though, would cost me more then the fine to take the day off work to contest it.

[JusyApples]

not like they reimburse self employed people for thier days off though, would cost me more then the fine to take the day off work to contest it.

Nup but for some people it's the principle that's priceless

[Bird]

not like they reimburse self employed people for thier days off though, would cost me more then the fine to take the day off work to contest it.

and your chances of winning are laughable - if your right or wrong. Gov Co needs the money.

[Jeepers Creepers]

I always thought yellow meant.... "floor it, the fukkers turning red in a second."

[Merts]

But you have missed the point. Who is behind you? What sort of car are you driving? What speed are you going how far from the line? All these impact your decision as a mature adult (i.e. able to make a sensible decision based on a number of factors) as to whether to stop or not (not speaking of accelerating as then you would most likely be speeding).
So it's not simple. If I have a small new car behind me at a sensible distance behind, I will most likely stop. If I have a B Double behind me I am more likely to push through the orange as I know they take longer to pull up. Chuck in a heap or rain and it all changes again.

I didn't miss your point, I just disagree with how far you are taking it.

Of course you have to take into account the factors you've mentioned. That is precisely what the 'if safe to do so' part means.

Yes, there is some judgement required by both the driver, and the police officer, but I repeat my earlier assertion. If you feel you need to accelerate to get through before the red, you had PLENTY of time to stop. You just chose not to.

[paceman]

I didn't miss your point, I just disagree with how far you are taking it.

Of course you have to take into account the factors you've mentioned. That is precisely what the 'if safe to do so' part means.

Yes, there is some judgement required by both the driver, and the police officer, but I repeat my earlier assertion. If you feel you need to accelerate to get through before the red, you had PLENTY of time to stop. You just chose not to.

if my choices are: 

accelerating a bit and getting through the intersection safely, or

putting on the brakes (not even slamming them on) and ending up in the middle of the intersection (due to wet road, type of vehicle, maybe a tailgater behind me) and becoming a sitting duck... ?


i know which one is safer for me, so that's the choice i'm making...

[Jeepers Creepers]

or a 2.25 tonne, 19 feet long Caddy thundering down on ya with drum brakes. 

[Merts]

if my choices are: 

accelerating a bit and getting through the intersection safely, or

putting on the brakes (not even slamming them on) and ending up in the middle of the intersection and becoming a sitting duck... ?


i know which one is safer...

If you need to accelerate to beat the red, you won't finish up in the middle of the intersection if you actually try to stop. The duration of the amber isn't just pulled out of someone's backside. The traffic signals are designed and programmed so that you can stop either stop comfortably and safely, or if you are too close, you will beat the red WITHOUT accelerating.

[paceman]

or a 2.25 tonne, 19 feet long Caddy thundering down on ya with drum brakes. 

yep...

like i said previously, no-one doubts the rule serves a purpose and is there for a reason...

the trouble is, with interpretive rules like this one, real life gets in the way and the rule does not cater for every situation that will arise...

[paceman]

If you need to accelerate to beat the red, you won't finish up in the middle of the intersection if you actually try to stop. The duration of the amber isn't just pulled out of someone's backside. The traffic signals are designed and programmed so that you can stop either stop comfortably and safely, or if you are too close, you will beat the red WITHOUT accelerating.

not in QLD, anyways...

been there, done that, got the skid marks to prove it...

traffic lights can not take into account every vehicle's weight, stopping ability, tyre condition, road condition, how much rain we've had... or any combination of those factors (along with others that i have forgotten)...

we can agree to disagree... if you think that every person that has received a ticket for going through an amber light was able to stop and the police officers have got it exactly right every time, you're doing better than me...

enjoy your weekend...

[Bird]

Yellow lights arent all set to 1 timing either.. there was a case a bloke won years ago due to this.

http://cameracommissioner.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/rscc_report_yellow_light_timing_issues.pdf


As a result of my investigation, I find that the red light cameras at each of the intersections were operating accurately and in accordance with the Road Safety (General) Regulations 2009 throughout the relevant periods.  However, as a result of the erroneous length of the yellow light phases, I recommend:

(a) Any person who received a traffic infringement notice for a red light
offence at the intersection of:

*LIST OF INTERSECTIONS*

should have any traffic infringement notice withdrawn, any infringement penalty refunded and any demerit points reversed.  This recommendation only applies to vehicles travelling straight through the intersection and not to vehicles turning left or right at the intersection.

[Merts]

Yellow lights arent all set to 1 timing either.. there was a case a bloke won years ago due to this.

Yeah, fair enough Bird.
My comments are only valid if the signals have been designed and programmed correctly. (which they almost always are)