Smoking in Queensland National Parks

[ronmac]

What happens if you have a Smokey camp fire  should we sit 10.5m away from it 
 lf Bad/Good Scott have anything to do with you wouldn't get that close to it even to chuck on another log . Dose that count Ummmmmmm                                

That will be next on the list, no camp fires. cheers Ron.

[Bird]

That will be next on the list, no camp fires. cheers Ron.

Its already been discussed more than once for the High Country, due do dozens of ****tards leaving not just smouldering but burning campfires with a lot of wood in em...

Along Buttercup road (only ~2 klms long section) in the 1 trip years back we found 4 campsites in a row with fires still burning... Sad thing is the camps are actually on the river.. no more than 50ft from as much water as you need.
It will happen one day no doubt.

[Troopy_03]

Great Idea, If they can not keep it clean they are not welcome, Craig

Nope, just ban taking those products, or all packaged products into the NP. It's the same principal.

[duggie]

Qld health are the only people who can issue a infringement for smoking, that's why no one every seems to be fined.

Not quite right


Legislation and enforcement

Queensland's tobacco laws are governed by 2 sets of legislation:

Tobacco and Other Smoking Products Act 1998 (PDF, 646 KB)
Tobacco and Other Smoking Products Regulation 2010 (PDF, 318 KB)
They are primarily enforced by Queensland Health Environmental Health Officers (EHOs), who can:

issue individuals warnings and on-the-spot fines
issue businesses improvement notices, warnings and on-the-spot fines
initiate legal proceedings for breaches of the tobacco laws
respond to complaints
inspect premises
provide advice about the tobacco laws.
If you are smoking in a no-smoking zone and approached by an authorised EHO, you are required by law to provide your correct name and address to the officer. They generally do not wear a uniform, but they will show an identification card before asking any questions.

Police officers have powers to address tobacco sales to children and they alone enforce smoking bans in vehicles where children under 16 years are present. Police must observe the offence occurring in a vehicle in order to issue a fine.

Queensland Parks and Wildlife Service Rangers have powers to enforce smoking bans in Queensland National Parks.

[gronk]

We should install some bl@@dy bollards to keep these grubs out of N.P.s I reckon.....

Don't worry, nat parks would love nothing better than to bollard the whole lot off. Only bush walkers and greenies allowed in !!

[ronmac]

Don't worry, nat parks would love nothing better than to bollard the whole lot off. Only bush walkers and greenies allowed in !!

exactly, many years ago I was in a 4wd club and we were involved with the Tom Quilty endurance rides helping out with communications and they tried hard to get of rid this. Don,t hear of it any more. cheers Ron.

[Shaun99]

Can people still afford to smoke?

What does a packet cost these days?

 

[Craig Tomkinson]

Hi Troppy, I do not care what people smoke or drink or eat in there own camp, just keep away from my camp and clean there crap before they leave, its not hard, Craig

[GUEY]

Can people still afford to smoke?

What does a packet cost these days?

 

$75 a week for a pouch, filters and tallyho's. Tailor made I'd be looking at $150 a week.

Leave the smokers alone, and ban the whingy whiney lot from the parks instead.

[Paddler Ed]

I'll try again... Had a post written yesterday, hot the wrong button and lost it all...

Couple of things to think about:
1) Legislation is needed to deal with idiots who don't know that dropping fag butts isn't acceptable - unlike you guys who collect them up etc and don't leave them lying.
2) Society is shifting away from smoking, much as they did from drink driving or not wearing seat belts.
3) Younger people don't seem to be smoking as much, it really is a dying habit. I only know of a couple of smokers under 45, and certainly around university I only see international students from SE Asia smoking; 20 years ago I knew a couple of smokers in the student body.

Combined these force the hands of those decision makers who come up with these ideas

[GUEY]

I posted this elsewhere recently.
Minority groups are those that get pandered to. Soon enough smokers will be a huge minority, therefore expect all of the smoking laws to be overturned in the future. 

[Fizzie]

I have paid my fees to camp in xyz Nat Park.

Am I renting this site , by way of payment ?

If I am renting then under the Australia Tenancy Laws , I can't be banned from smoking .

Duggie, not arguing just asking

Can't the landlord / owner specify "No smoking" in the rental agreement?

Even the Rangers smoke in the parks.

I know a number of years ago, when the laws came out to ban smoking in all Fed Govt buildings etc, they then had to put an amendment through to allow smoking in Military Training Areas as, by the law, no-one was allowed to smoke while one Exercise. Maybe they thought that asking a bloke with a rifle to go cold-turkey was a bad idea

3) Younger people don't seem to be smoking as much, it really is a dying habit. I only know of a couple of smokers under 45,

Same, but the younger people I know that smoke are virtually all girls

[Merts]

I was just having a thoughtie about all this .


I have paid my fees to camp in xyz Nat Park.

Am I renting this site , by way of payment ?

If I am renting then under the Australia Tenancy Laws , I can't be banned from smoking .

Two points re that argument.

Firstly, you might want to recheck tenancy laws. Landlords can and do impose restrictions on tenants doing things in their properties which could damage or devalue them. They can, and do have restrictions on tenants smoking in their properties. The deal is, if you as a tenant don't want to abide by the landlord's no smoking conditions, you don't get to rent the property.

Secondly, tenancy laws don't apply to camping permits in National Parks.

[Merts]

And to take it to the obvious conclusion, ban every other product, that the wrappers and packaging is left laying around, by the same grubs too.
That would include a lot of stuff to be banned. Sorry all you Coke drinkers, chip eaters, McDonalds Scofferes etc, etc, etc.... it's all banned. We should install some bl@@dy bollards to keep these grubs out of N.P.s I reckon.....

The problem with that argument is that a cigarette butt is way more likely to be dropped than a lolly wrapper or a coke can. Whilst some smokers don't just drop butts on the ground, many, many, do. I've seen and known a lot of smokers who wouldn't dream of dropping any other sort of rubbish on the ground, but routinely and thoughtlessly drop a butt and stand on it, and then happily walk away.

[Troopy_03]

Don't worry, nat parks would love nothing better than to bollard the whole lot off. Only bush walkers and greenies allowed in !!

Yep, I was actually thinking that as I typed it.

[Troopy_03]

Hi Troppy, I do not care what people smoke or drink or eat in there own camp, just keep away from my camp and clean there crap before they leave, its not hard, Craig

That's fair Kraig, just don't idle your diesel near mine. 
And, to add to what you are saying, basically stop grubs being grubs, not ban smoking because you perceive all smokers to be grubs? To be honest, the worst grubs are the ones who leave mounds of empty stubbies at the camp site, or even worse, leave the shattered pieces in the remains of the fire. I'd definitely be agreeable to the complete ban on glass packaging in NPs as well, if I thought it would make grubs stop being grubs. But guess what, it won't.

[Troopy_03]

The problem with that argument is that a cigarette butt is way more likely to be dropped than a lolly wrapper or a coke can. Whilst some smokers don't just drop butts on the ground, many, many, do. I've seen and known a lot of smokers who wouldn't dream of dropping any other sort of rubbish on the ground, but routinely and thoughtlessly drop a butt and stand on it, and then happily walk away.

A valid point, but if you consider the percentage of smokers these days, and the fact that most are very aware of the way the rest of society tries to demonise them, which makes most of them very aware that it is unacceptable, I think the pollution aspect isn't the reason for the ban. There's way more other crap than cigarette butts left laying around the place. I would say the ban is more to do with the risk of starting a bush fire with a carelessly discarded ciggy butt.

[Merts]

I think the pollution aspect isn't the reason for the ban. There's way more other crap than cigarette butts left laying around the place. I would say the ban is more to do with the risk of starting a bush fire with a carelessly discarded ciggy butt.

I think you are spot on there.

I reckon it's also related to the 2nd hand smoke issue which is the main driver behind restrictions on smoking in other public spaces.

[Chris J]

TRUMP wouldn’t stand for this crap, stand up for your rights Duggie, go to your MP and complain.

[Pete79]

We always send the kids out on an emu parade when we're doing the final bit of packing after a camping trip. They generally fill a shopping bag of normal plastic waste (bottle tops, chip bags, plastic shopping bags , etc).
Our last trip to Straddie they collected 2 big handfuls of ciggie butts. We hate them touching these things, but they insist that those stinking little things kill just as much wild life as plastic bags.

I'm an ex-smoker my self (pumped down about 20 of those cancer sticks a day for nearly 20 years) and I get pissed off with myself when I think about how many hundreds and hundreds of butts I've shoved in the sand over many years of doing a surf checks in the morning. If today me saw yesterday me doing those things I would kick my own ass.

FWIW, I think this will only be unforced in metro parks and popular picnic areas. Bush sites won't be enforced for a very long time.

[RobM]

TRUMP wouldn’t stand for this crap, stand up for your rights Duggie, go to your MP and complain

Stirrer

[duggie]

Two points re that argument.

Firstly, you might want to recheck tenancy laws. Landlords can and do impose restrictions on tenants doing things in their properties which could damage or devalue them. They can, and do have restrictions on tenants smoking in their properties. The deal is, if you as a tenant don't want to abide by the landlord's no smoking conditions, you don't get to rent the property.

Secondly, tenancy laws don't apply to camping permits in National Parks.

Your tenant's right to smoke

Smoking is one characteristic of a tenant you can be slightly choosy about, but be careful you are not breaking any of the anti-discriminatory laws in your tenant vetting process.

Tenants are protected from discrimination under state and federal laws, which say that no one may be barred from a rental property on the basis of race, sex, ability, marital status, age, sexual orientation or sexual preference.

However, landlords do have the right to reject a rental application on the basis of potential damage. Anything that may negatively impact the value of your investment, such as scratches on the floors from pets or the smell of tobacco smoke, are legally sound reasons to give for rejecting a tenant's application.

It's a good idea to advertise your property as smoking or non-smoking to focus your applicant pool and avoid having to turn down too many would-be tenants.

[rotare]

Your tenant's right to smoke

Smoking is one characteristic of a tenant you can be slightly choosy about, but be careful you are not breaking any of the anti-discriminatory laws in your tenant vetting process.

Tenants are protected from discrimination under state and federal laws, which say that no one may be barred from a rental property on the basis of race, sex, ability, marital status, age, sexual orientation or sexual preference.

However, landlords do have the right to reject a rental application on the basis of potential damage. Anything that may negatively impact the value of your investment, such as scratches on the floors from pets or the smell of tobacco smoke, are legally sound reasons to give for rejecting a tenant's application.

It's a good idea to advertise your property as smoking or non-smoking to focus your applicant pool and avoid having to turn down too many would-be tenants.

Smokers are not a protected legal class and smoking is not a right, so most of the laws don’t stop a landlord from implementing regulations and restrictions about smoking.

As long as the smoking restrictions are included in the lease agreement, most states will back up the landlord’s rights to create a smoke-free environment at the rental property. Generally, you can establish the conditions on where and if a tenant can smoke. The strictness of the restrictions is up to you.

https://www.rentprep.com/tenant-screening-news/landlords-ban-smoking-rental-property/

No different to the approach taken by the National Parks I guess.  Whether you pay or not to enter the park is irrelevant - it doesn't give you the right to do as you please.  Everyone has a choice, and if they don't like the conditions of entry....

[Merts]

Your tenant's right to smoke

Smoking is one characteristic of a tenant you can be slightly choosy about, but be careful you are not breaking any of the anti-discriminatory laws in your tenant vetting process.

Tenants are protected from discrimination under state and federal laws, which say that no one may be barred from a rental property on the basis of race, sex, ability, marital status, age, sexual orientation or sexual preference.

However, landlords do have the right to reject a rental application on the basis of potential damage. Anything that may negatively impact the value of your investment, such as scratches on the floors from pets or the smell of tobacco smoke, are legally sound reasons to give for rejecting a tenant's application.

It's a good idea to advertise your property as smoking or non-smoking to focus your applicant pool and avoid having to turn down too many would-be tenants.

If you think that supports your argument, I'm pretty sure it doesn't say what you think it says. 

[LB]

I am a smoker and so a many of the people I camp with. You would be exceptionally lucky to find a butt on the ground when we leave. They go in the fire or beer ashtrays.

Like any form a rubbish it should not be left behind but you will always get the idiots who think they are above everyone else, and I can guarantee they will be the ones who don't follow this law anyway.

Have to admit we rarely camp in National Parks as many don't allow fires or dogs. I and my killer spoodle lives for camping.

Its a law that is impossible to govern in any meaningful way and is more likely to catch those being responsible and not the idiots who dump there butts in the bush where it could start fires.

I agree with the comments from some other members that alcohol is a bigger issue when camping. I have cleaned up plenty of smashed glass from previous idiots.

The other thing that needs to be addressed are the morans who go to bed leaving fires still going. At Christmas we were running around at night dumping water on other peoples fires because the ground was dry and the wind had kicked up.