Dobinson MRR shocks

[sharkcaver]

To add perspective to this thread, you can see my build thread here:

http://sharkcaver.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/x-marks-spot-development-of-nx-into.html

and check out my thread of why it all went tits up:

http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=49395.0


So we are now back in business as below:

So,most will be aware of some hiccups in the suspension dept on my trip down the canning.

A week ago, I received some correspondence on how customer service should be handled. Its been a bit of a long saga, but Kudos to Dobinson Spring and Suspension, it looks like we have a winner. So here is what is being done:

The washers are now our normal style setup which has a 14mm pin, with a 15mm locating washer which slips over the pin to 18.5mm approx od to go in the 19mm hole with our regular syle bushes and washers (never had a problem with these ones previously and these are different to the ones you had on yours).

Issue one, taken note of and now sorted

The crimp is different. As mentioned, the hydraulic bloke says that the crimp should have held. This is the report he gave us and It should have held a lot more pressure and survived

Upon failure, they took it upon themselves to hire a professional hydraulic engineer to analyse the failure.

So it is evident they are serious about sorting this issue out. Whilst the analysis of the failure is open, all concerned agree it shouldn't have happened. So to cover any unforeseen contingencies, the crimp fitting has been changed to a type that should be even more durable.

Also mentioned was the fact that our mono’s had high valving because of the independent rear setup. We have since compared to others, and ours were higher so we have also lowered it down slightly. This will also keep them cooler (not that its a problem), and have less pressure build up in the hose.

I have been harping on since my return that although in this first instance we suffered failure, up to that point, the product proved to be superior. And as such, I hold the line that in conjunction with our results and their taking on board our issues, Dobinson is a force to be reckoned with and these MRR's will be kick ass and superior value for money for anyone that gives their vehicle a hard time in remote locations. And if it can handle those rigors, then imagine what they will do if not pushed as hard.

Today, I fitted these new shocks to the Paj:



And they were so much easier to compress than the last version. I could do these in the field, no worries.








New hoses, new Hydraulic crimp fittings and reduced valving should see that engineering issue taken care of.


The new locating washer should stop the shock from walking and cutting the rubber to bits on the top rubber cup:





The only issue though was this washer would not fit the existing mounting. The top cup seems to be very tight to remove, but the lower was not. So I removed the lower cup from the shock tower:









Set up the shock to suit and installed them:




Before i struck issues with the old, they were just running so well in the most arduous conditions. To compare, in the worst stretch of dirt, my mate with the same vehicle but different shocks, measured temps at 210 degrees. The Dobinson MRR was running at 105 degrees. So it goes without saying, these shocks were just performing so well that they had to be persevered with. And a big thanks goes to Dobinson for taking the time to listen to our issues, conduct the necessary engineering to sort them out, and to get us back on track. 100% support from a great Aussie company. I look forward to punishing them again, this time with renewed confidence.

[GeoffA]

Before i struck issues with the old, they were just running so well in the most arduous conditions. To compare, in the worst stretch of dirt, my mate with the same vehicle but different shocks, measured temps at 210 degrees. The Dobinson MRR was running at 105 degrees. So it goes without saying, these shocks were just performing so well that they had to be persevered with.....

Did your mates shocks fail too? Low temps are nice, but not much use if the shock blows anyway....

.....And a big thanks goes to Dobinson for taking the time to listen to our issues, conduct the necessary engineering to sort them out, and to get us back on track. 100% support from a great Aussie company. I look forward to punishing them again, this time with renewed confidence.

I can understand that you're pleased with the outcome, but using the customers as test pilots doesn't fill me with confidence.

Too many things to go pear-shaped with remote res shocks.
Koni gets my money....simple, and proven.

 

[Watty2975]

Good on you Sharkcaver, for taking the time to work with Dobinsons on the issues and getting a good outcome. I used to know the brothers who ran the family business and they have always been responsive to any problems and keen to make things better.

[sharkcaver]

Good on you Sharkcaver, for taking the time to work with Dobinsons on the issues and getting a good outcome. I used to know the brothers who ran the family business and they have always been responsive to any problems and keen to make things better.

I started working with one of the brothers directly. I was in QLD in October and I met with him where we had a good discussion about the product and what we can do to make it better, person to person. I was even given a factory tour. I cant believe how much product they make. He was a great guy and just instilled more confidence in me that not only would they fully support their customer, but will take on board all I said to make the product even better. Shame the other 2 vendors I'm dealing with are not as pro-active. Ignore your customers at your peril!

[sharkcaver]

Did your mates shocks fail too? Low temps are nice, but not much use if the shock blows anyway....

Yes one of his did so he replaced both. I killed the second one of his because I didn't carry a spare, so I used his un failed one. But you are right, low temps are king, unless you blow a hose on a remote res 

I can understand that you're pleased with the outcome, but using the customers as test pilots doesn't fill me with confidence.

Too many things to go pear-shaped with remote res shocks.
Koni gets my money....simple, and proven.

 

Well let me just say, try getting any after market component for a Pajero. If it hasn't got a yota or nissan badge, you are severely limited. So whilst on paper, the specs seemed right, only real world testing proves the theory. In the extreme circumstances I tested these in, they failed . But in perspective, so did a lot of others. My mate, with the same vehicle killed his replacements in under 100Km's. At least mine made 800Km (oh and my MRR front struts are still going strong). I heard of at least 5 other bailouts whilst I was on the track due to failed shocks. One of whom paid the cost of a left kidney to travel with the tag along group - the travelling Gypsies. No refund on that.

The way they were working up to failure point proved to me I just have to work with the manufacturer to get this right. The failures aren't rocket science to resolve. Infield testing is the only way to do this. And if I have to be that test pilot for such a small market, then so be it. Pajero owners will be the beneficiaries of that. But these results will also filter through to their other vehicles product, so we all win. Other vehicles have been extensively tested, but the small market Pajero had to rely on the results of those and on paper specs. In most off road circumstances, you would never see this failure. And as proven, if murphy came to visit, at least you can see you have full manufacturer support.

But I do agree, one thing I realised after going the remote res route, was that another potential point of failure is introduced. However, get the engineering right and you will have a superior product.

I am trying not to get into a debate on different brands of shocks. That is not the purpose of this thread. But suffice to say, Koni's also have their issues. As do all of them.

[achjimmy]

Shane iam with Geoff here. I don't see the praise in dobinson standing by there product.  They had a massive failure which severely  inconvinenced  you. They had to respond .  There lucky they aren't facing more serious reprocussions . I wouldnt use a dobinson product after this.

Sorry I just don't get the vibe with remote res shocks it's like the bp51 there just try to cash in on the latest trend. Cause there trendy to  jump dunes in Baja, Doesnt mean they stand up to rock laden tracks  As Geoff said Konis , Konis raids have proven themselves repeatedly in that type of environment.

[Dogsbreakfast]

I'll support australian made first. Especially ones that use feedback to strengthen their product.

[doc evil]

Seems to be a bit of a consensus here.............
Agree with the comments about using the customer as a test bed however, they have come to the party and rectified the issues.
For the record, my Koni 88s have been on the truck since new ('05) and have done almost 340,000km without being touched. Koni 90s will replace them soon (within the next year or so). They have been tortured beyond belief and no need for remote res or fancy gizmos and hype on a 4 tonne truck.

 

[Paddy16]

One of my next mods is to toss the Dobinsons and fit Koni's. The mob I service at are huge and have had big arguments with Dobinsons about valving without Dobinsons listening and now won't stock/sell their products.

[achjimmy]

I'll support australian made first. Especially ones that use feedback to strengthen their product.

Are the dobinsons MRR Australian made?

[Bird]

Koni 90s will replace them soon (within the next year or so).

Koni 90s..  touch bigger and better than standard

[noel_w]

Got Koni 88's on my ute and am veeerrrryyyy happy with them. Had 82's on the back of the GQ and was/still happy with them too.

[sharkcaver]

Are the dobinsons MRR Australian made?

They are assembled in Sydney. Where the parts come from?

[Pete79]

They are assembled in Sydney. Where the parts come from?

Sydney aye???

I just assumed they would have been made in their Rockhampton factory along with all of their springs.
https://www.dobinsonsprings.com/index.php/home/our-history


From my experience they make great suspension kits and they are a great example of local manufacturer who look after their clients.

As you noted in your earlier post sharkcaver, I'm sure there will be a heap of other guys out there that will benefit from your real world testing.

Reading the previous posts it sounds like supporting a local manufacturer is a bad thing.
But I guess if you follow the sheeple logic you did a bad thing buying a vehicle that wasn't a Nissan or Toyota anyway. So I just hope you didn't buy a bullbar that wasn't made by ARB, we'd have no choice to burn you at the stake if that was the case....

*Edit, just read most of your blog, looks like you're safe from the witch hunt, you have the sacred 3 letters on the front of the Paj.

[sharkcaver]

Sydney aye???

I just assumed they would have been made in their Rockhampton factory along with all of their springs.
https://www.dobinsonsprings.com/index.php/home/our-history


From my experience they make great suspension kits and they are a great example of local manufacturer who look after their clients.

As you noted in your earlier post sharkcaver, I'm sure there will be a heap of other guys out there that will benefit from your real world testing.

Reading the previous posts it sounds like supporting a local manufacturer is a bad thing.
But I guess if you follow the sheeple logic you did a bad thing buying a vehicle that wasn't a Nissan or Toyota anyway. So I just hope you didn't buy a bullbar that wasn't made by ARB, we'd have no choice to burn you at the stake if that was the case....

*Edit, just read most of your blog, looks like you're safe from the witch hunt, you have the sacred 3 letters on the front of the Paj.

Yep, Sydney. I was on Holiday in QLD in October, so I arranged to meet one of the owners whilst I was there. After a factory tour in my Japanese safety boots    I can confirm Rocky is primarily the spring (coil and leaf) manufacturing centre. What spun me out was how many springs they make/have in stock. Coming from an engineering background myself, It was an interesting experience. The owner must have "wasted"a good 2 hours on me.

As to your rest: Well I did state to keep things in perspective. The conditions were atrocious, the Dobo's at that time outlasted the sacred 3 letter word brand shocks by a factor of 8 to 1 on the same vehicle, and I heard of 5 others that had to bail whilst I was out there, all due to failed shocks. I can guarantee all 5 weren't dobo's. But hey, if others cant see Dobo looked after me well and took my suggested refinements on board, then so be it.

Now, onto that 3 letter word....If only they gave me the support Dobo did, I'd be a happy man. 4 months to get repairs to a vehicle from a bad design on their part, a blatant no to a redesign to stop it happening again and its beyond them to give me any assurance of support in the future, has made me one mad little boy. Another example of perspective - customer service perspective, and a piss poor one at that. Once the vehicle is repaired, I'm going to town, cause our relationship will have ended - of their choosing.

[achjimmy]

I asked the question cause I sort of knew the answer. Pretty sure nobody in AU makes production automotive shocks except tenneco (Monroe), and for how much longer  who knows?

 So which Aussie company do you support?? The Aussie manufacturer who has decided to cash in in there name and get into all things 4wd and import Stuff  (shocks, even tents and winches) from around the world and badge them as their own hoping the masses think it's all Aussie made or the Aussie company in melbourne who has sold , developed and supported an imported product from overseas who have invested time and money sending products to Australia for development and testing for decades? (Toperfornance koni distributors for 30+ years)

Most important thing here is Shane is satisfied.

But let's not spew local Aussie battler manufacturer against imported product rubbish here in defence of them? The reason most people choose not to use koni 90t is  because the damn things cost x2 to x4 the price of most other shocks (and that includes me) or people believe the gas/oil  is better than oil only marketing

For the record I don't have anything to do with toperformance other than I dealt with them 20 years ago when I was involved in the suspension industry.

[Pete79]

So which Aussie company do you support??

Well honestly, neither of your examples.

I agree with you 100% about the ARB sell outs. My personal experience with them has been pretty much the same as sharkcaver's. They couldn't give a crap about their customers and while so many people blindly go out and buy everything because of the brand name nothing will change there.

As for the others.
My vehicle doesn't weigh 4 tonnes and for the moment I can't see us doing too much touring in really extreme conditions, so I can't justify remote res or Koni shocks.

I just take exception to everyone slinging so much crap on some one who gave a local manufacturer a go. 
The failure is not the issue, what happened after is what I see as the most important.

Does everyone honestly think Koni never had one failure when they started making a new product? The only difference is they are owned by a massive American corporation with endless dollars to pump into their racing products which obviously trickle down into their products for the general public.
Dobinsons obviously have 1/10000000th of the budget Koni do, so to be competitive in the same market is some achievement in my view. And going on sharkcaver's feedback on their product support I would happily give them my money again when I'm up for another suspension kit.

[achjimmy]

Pete iam referring to dobinsons! Look on their website they are doing no diff to ARB.

 Good on Shane for giving them a go no issue, I've  followed him for a lot of years and his modifications And developing and trying diff things with the Paj. He Has always offered help and advise and admitted when his gone wrong. This is nothing to do with his choice.

My issue was people defending them as some "Aussie manufacturing battler" where as they are just on selling an imported product like toperformance. Yet less tested. And for thinking that immense online bad publicity that was ranking in SEO had nothing to do with them finally pulling there finger out and helping him.

I hope they get there gear together and it's great , by all accounts their springs are great?  further competition and another choice all good. Think I've covered my position in this.

 

[Pete79]

All good mate. I guess that shows how much of a bad consumer I am.

I don't read any magazines, I don't go on any of the other 'mainstream' 4wd forums and honestly never looked at anything else other then suspension on the Dobinsons website. To me they where only a suspension manufacturer, but happy to be corrected there.

[sharkcaver]

I've always been of the opinion ARB is a true ozzie success story. And that it is, even though in this day of global competitiveness, they manufacture some stuff off shore. Its the way of the modern world unfortunately. I believe Dobo have a manufacturing facility now in Thailand, supplying the SE Asia market (and soon to be the Middle East too), and a facility in Panama supplying into North America.  Being in business for over 60 years now, they too are a great ozzie success story, although their business model is different to ARB, being that the accessories side is not their core business, and that reflects in the products they sell, not manufacture.

Like ARB, they still manufacture here, but not all product lines. Both are worthy of the kudo's they deserve.

In this instance unfortunately, I had to deal with both and one outshone the other. This thread wasn't meant to compare one against the other, nor one brand of shock against the other. But to highlight what I perceived as great customer service. We all hear the bad story stuff all the time. Its refreshing to see a good news story. 

[Dogsbreakfast]

I asked the question cause I sort of knew the answer. Pretty sure nobody in AU makes production automotive shocks except tenneco (Monroe), and for how much longer  who knows?

 So which Aussie company do you support?? The Aussie manufacturer who has decided to cash in in there name and get into all things 4wd and import Stuff  (shocks, even tents and winches) from around the world and badge them as their own hoping the masses think it's all Aussie made or the Aussie company in melbourne who has sold , developed and supported an imported product from overseas who have invested time and money sending products to Australia for development and testing for decades? (Toperfornance koni distributors for 30+ years)

Most important thing here is Shane is satisfied.

But let's not spew local Aussie battler manufacturer against imported product rubbish here in defence of them? The reason most people choose not to use koni 90t is  because the damn things cost x2 to x4 the price of most other shocks (and that includes me) or people believe the gas/oil  is better than oil only marketing

For the record I don't have anything to do with toperformance other than I dealt with them 20 years ago when I was involved in the suspension industry.

Koni make a great shock, thats for sure. I ran them on my xb coupe and that thing handled miles better than it should have. Totally transformed it.

I wasn't talking up any aussie battler story, but i'm from up rocky way and any business that employs locals is a good thing in my books. They manufacture a good spring though!

[doc evil]

(snip)

Most important thing here is Shane is satisfied.

(snip)

True however, me personally, I wouldn't have the patience waiting for them to rectify (which in my view shouldn't have happened in the first place) as well as all the toing and froing to have them rectified.

(snip)

 The reason most people choose not to use koni 90t is  because the damn things cost x2 to x4 the price of most other shocks

(snip)

yet you get more than 4 times the life out of them................false economy there. Same goes for almost all vehicular consumables..............

just as an aside, I wonder how much of the el cheapo Kings/tigerz11 stuff has been thrown as land fill and the throwee bought a more expensive replacement. Would be interesting statistics if available.

[oldmate]

just as an aside, I wonder how much of the el cheapo Kings/tigerz11 stuff has been thrown as land fill and the throwee bought a more expensive replacement. Would be interesting statistics if available.

I'd reckon easy 70%


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bird]

True however, me personally, I wouldn't have the patience waiting for them to rectify (which in my view shouldn't have happened in the first place) as well as all the toing and froing to have them rectified.

yet you get more than 4 times the life out of them................false economy there. Same goes for almost all vehicular consumables..............

just as an aside, I wonder how much of the el cheapo Kings/tigerz11 stuff has been thrown as land fill and the throwee bought a more expensive replacement. Would be interesting statistics if available.

yep..

poor people cant afford cheap things.

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

yep..

poor people cant afford cheap things.

I think that should be, "Poor people can't afford to buy anything but cheap things.  They don't get the life out of them, and have to buy the same thing way more often.
And that's what keeps them poor."