Home Solar & Subsidized Feed In Tariff Qld

[richee]

You can add more panels than your inverter is rated for but at peak production times the inverter may shut itself down and restart continuously until the panel input is back within the invertver limits, so you will be wasting your best production time. Just don't over do it and it should be fine.

We have just installed a 5kw  inverter with 6.5 kWs worth of panels. The invert "clips" the input at 5.05 kW and doesn't shut down.

Richard

[grafy82]

We have just installed a 5kw  inverter with 6.5 kWs worth of panels. The invert "clips" the input at 5.05 kW and doesn't shut down.

Richard

Correct. I've seen setups with 8.0kw of panels on a 5.0kw inverter and it does not shut of at all. It does however make the full 5kw from about 8:30am through until just after 4:30pm most days. Wouldnt it be nice!

[prodigyrf]

I was talking to an electrician mate and he tells me that 1000 people drop of the 44c deal per year (ie selling house)
me thinks it time for a current affair to look into this

Why? The selling owner was happy to install the system and reap the benefit of being cross-subsidized by their neighbours' power bills as long as they wished to, while the new owners are not sponging off their neighbours anymore, yet still saving the planet apparently. What's not to like?

[Rumpig]

That's precisely what my father has done - added more panels than the theoretical capacity of the inverter.  So far no issue from the power company, but time will tell I guess.

my mate who installed our solar system in our house, has done the same thing as your dad has done on his own house. I believe the theory of it is... the system reaches max capacity quicker, and then stays there over a longer period, therefor producing more power for you. I think I vaguely recall him saying something about certain inverters copping better then others with this type of set up, but my memory of that conversation is a pretty average.

[prodigyrf]

Explained here- https://www.infiniteenergy.com.au/oversizing-your-solar-panel-array/

But the best solution is appropriately matched 4th generation microinverters on each panel with a major spinoff being you don't lose the whole generating capacity should an inverter fail which is often happening in 3-5 years with poorly specced global system inverters. Lots of owners take a power bill or two to wake up that the inverter has failed.

Disclaimer: I'm sponging off my neighbours and not moving but someone has to save the planet 

[grafy82]

Why? The selling owner was happy to install the system and reap the benefit of being cross-subsidized by their neighbours' power bills as long as they wished to, while the new owners are not sponging off their neighbours anymore, yet still saving the planet apparently. What's not to like?

Sponging off the neighbors?? No, more like paying off the loan from the bank with a government subsidised scheme (although, that will be done and dusted within 2 years anyway   ) I thought I couldn't afford it, but sat down and did the maths and worked out it was cheaper to pay off the loan for the system than keep paying the electricity bill. The neighbors I'm apparently 'sponging off' could have done the same thing.

[grafy82]

Explained here- https://www.infiniteenergy.com.au/oversizing-your-solar-panel-array/

But the best solution is appropriately matched 4th generation microinverters on each panel with a major spinoff being you don't lose the whole generating capacity should an inverter fail which is often happening in 3-5 years with poorly specced global system inverters. Lots of owners take a power bill or two to wake up that the inverter has failed.

Disclaimer: I'm sponging off my neighbours and not moving but someone has to save the planet 

There have been lots of dramas with micro inverters and you'd be far more likely to notice something wrong with a normal inverter as you would have a whole string drop out instead of just 1 panel, showing a big reduction in production. When we were looking at micro inverter systems, we got quoted $20000 for 5kw as opposed to $10500 for a 5kw single inverter system. Way too much to justify taking the punt.

[prodigyrf]

Sponging off the neighbors?? No, more like paying off the loan from the bank with a government subsidised scheme (although, that will be done and dusted within 2 years anyway   ) I thought I couldn't afford it, but sat down and did the maths and worked out it was cheaper to pay off the loan for the system than keep paying the electricity bill. The neighbors I'm apparently 'sponging off' could have done the same thing.

So you're not on an artificial mandated FIT scheme then that pushes the price onto other consumers? It's a fallacy of composition (like all taking a box to stand on at the footy), that we could all be better off power bill wise on a universal FIT scheme but hey a taxpaying bloke's gotta put his hand up for any Gummint clawback going down. I'm not kidding myself the numbers would stack up if the generators were paying me the 5-8c/kwhr wholesale  it's really worth in the marketplace.   

[grafy82]

So you're not on an artificial mandated FIT scheme then that pushes the price onto other consumers? It's a fallacy of composition (like all taking a box to stand on at the footy), that we could all be better off power bill wise on a universal FIT scheme but hey a taxpaying bloke's gotta put his hand up for any Gummint clawback going down. I'm not kidding myself the numbers would stack up if the generators were paying me the 5-8c/kwhr wholesale  it's really worth in the marketplace.   

I just don't think it's exactly sponging off anyone. I would leave that title to long term department of housing tenants and dole bludgers. Makes my 44c feed in tariff look like a drop in the ocean 

[Symon]

New battery systems will probably change that equation though.

Wouldn't think so.  I think it will fall into the same category as swimming pools, it may make some buyers want to pay more, but it general most people will see it as a liability.

[plusnq]

Wouldn't think so.  I think it will fall into the same category as swimming pools, it may make some buyers want to pay more, but it general most people will see it as a liability.

I might not have been as clear as I could have been. I meant they would change the economics of having the panels. Not as a value add for sale.

[MattNQ]

So you're not on an artificial mandated FIT scheme then that pushes the price onto other consumers? It's a fallacy of composition (like all taking a box to stand on at the footy), that we could all be better off power bill wise on a universal FIT scheme but hey a taxpaying bloke's gotta put his hand up for any Gummint clawback going down. I'm not kidding myself the numbers would stack up if the generators were paying me the 5-8c/kwhr wholesale  it's really worth in the marketplace.

Given I've been subsidising first home buyers, baby bonuses, insulation schemes etc, I'm happy to get something back for a change.
That said the 44c was shortsighted and should have been a tiered return. Starting at 30c and reducing to a flat 10 over a period....say 15 years perhaps

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[jetcrew]

I wont hop into the sponging etc argument 

i will say this though for any myswagger

If you are currently looking at solar even on 6c FIT it can be very very worthwhile if it is set up according to that FIT.

High internal usage and low external exports. is where the game is at these days.

Just helped a friend of friend as they were about to get set up with 6Kw all facing northish sighted to deliver the maximum system production....awesome right ..the sales guy had his charts graphs google maps and all that jazz and he had done a good job of making sure the system produced the maximum amount of power each day ..BUT all that generation was predominatly during the hours that no one was home and nothing was being used in the home ..end result is that power was being exported to the grid at 6c ..good for power company bad for home owner.

When we mapped out the home owners usage pattern we could clearly see that like my home the peak power demand periods were early morning and after school time till sun dropped, so by re orientating the panel arrays to cover see these times even though by doing this we did reduce the total system performance we saved an additional $ per day even though the system was now tech not sighted 100% correctly.

In a nut shell current solar installs should be designed with HIGH USAGE LOW EXPORT in mind.  I happily sacrafice 4-5KwH per day in production in return for production when i need it rather than when the power comapny can get it for 6c .

You have to export  5 Kwh in order to pay for 1Kwh you buy ..so why not sacrafice that 5 units for 2 units you can use yourself so 2 units used is worth more to you in $$$ saved  than 5 exported. system 3 units down on production but more $$$ in your pocket.

This is esp important if you buying a home that was on the 44cFIT and you will drop to 6cFIT after purchase it may not give you what you expect in terms of savings as it would have been set up with maximum export in mind so do not even factor it into purchase price .

And a few $$$ on having some one re orinetate the panels to match your useage patterns may pay dividends for you over 5-10 yrs of home ownership.

Jet      

[cruiser 91]

I wont hop into the sponging etc argument 

i will say this though for any myswagger

If you are currently looking at solar even on 6c FIT it can be very very worthwhile if it is set up according to that FIT.

High internal usage and low external exports. is where the game is at these days.

Just helped a friend of friend as they were about to get set up with 6Kw all facing northish sighted to deliver the maximum system production....awesome right ..the sales guy had his charts graphs google maps and all that jazz and he had done a good job of making sure the system produced the maximum amount of power each day ..BUT all that generation was predominatly during the hours that no one was home and nothing was being used in the home ..end result is that power was being exported to the grid at 6c ..good for power company bad for home owner.

When we mapped out the home owners usage pattern we could clearly see that like my home the peak power demand periods were early morning and after school time till sun dropped, so by re orientating the panel arrays to cover see these times even though by doing this we did reduce the total system performance we saved an additional $ per day even though the system was now tech not sighted 100% correctly.

In a nut shell current solar installs should be designed with HIGH USAGE LOW EXPORT in mind.  I happily sacrafice 4-5KwH per day in production in return for production when i need it rather than when the power comapny can get it for 6c .

You have to export  5 Kwh in order to pay for 1Kwh you buy ..so why not sacrafice that 5 units for 2 units you can use yourself so 2 units used is worth more to you in $$$ saved  than 5 exported. system 3 units down on production but more $$$ in your pocket.

This is esp important if you buying a home that was on the 44cFIT and you will drop to 6cFIT after purchase it may not give you what you expect in terms of savings as it would have been set up with maximum export in mind so do not even factor it into purchase price .

And a few $$$ on having some one re orinetate the panels to match your useage patterns may pay dividends for you over 5-10 yrs of home ownership.

Jet    

Tilting panels for peak times is all well and good but you have to keep in mind a few things b4 jumping in.
You can only tilt fixed panels in one direction, so you will only have decent solar generation either in the morning or evening. The other thing is this might be ok in summer when the sun is high but in winter the sun is a lot lower, tilting east or west will produce next to nothing in the colder months.

or

You could subsidise solar with wind generation or just go wind power all together which is relatively close to the cost per kw of solar but works day and night provided you have enough wind, however you may need a very high mast to escape low turbulence and is also subject to the dam council for approval.

or

Collective mass purchase of battery back up which will reduce individual purchase costs.

[cruiser 91]

Given I've been subsidising first home buyers, baby bonuses, insulation schemes etc, I'm happy to get something back for a change.
That said the 44c was shortsighted and should have been a tiered return. Starting at 30c and reducing to a flat 10 over a period....say 15 years perhaps

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Now we are all subsidising your gen's free university education and a few others things too like free medical But who's keeping tally 

 

It all boils down to a thing called privatisation.

Yep, I got the .44c in 2010......................but systems were twice the price if not three times compared to today's, I paid $7.5k for a quality 2.6kw system, its all that would fit on the roof. If I had room for a 10kw system I would of borrowed and paid the $40K. Having said that, anyone that could do math begged, borrowed, stole money to get a system on, it was a no brainer.
That labour government must be the dumbest government on record.

[grafy82]

Having said that, anyone that could do math begged, borrowed, stole money to get a system on, it was a no brainer.

Exactly. It's not just rich people who installed, many of us took out loans just to make sure we didn't miss out. It was the governments decision to run the scheme like they did and it was never up to us how electricity prices would change. We just saw what was coming and jumped on board. I just get sick of people who don't have Solar blaming those o us who do for the electricity price rises.

[Spada]

I thought that the Solar schemes where promoted by the Government of the day because it was a cheaper option than building a new power stations to meet demand. It's only since the government has sold the power assets that the companies are now blaming solar panel owners for driving up everyone else's bills ?

[richee]

We installed 6.5kw north facing panels with a 5kw inverter and our first bill is in and even at 6cent feed in what an Investment.

We only exported 700 kw so we managed to use 75% of what we produced (2900kWh), with a bit of effort and management this can be improved upon.

We consumed from the grid 2588 kWh less than the same time last year saving us $650.
Very power hungry Ducted Air and the pool runs 8 hours a day.

We should be able to save approx $2000 per year with a payback in 4 years.

Gotta love Solar.

Richard

[BaseCamp]

Gota love sunny Qld.... 

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[Symon]

I thought that the Solar schemes where promoted by the Government of the day because it was a cheaper option than building a new power stations to meet demand. It's only since the government has sold the power assets that the companies are now blaming solar panel owners for driving up everyone else's bills ?

Not sure where you got that from but it is wrong.  When you have a power network that was not designed for distributed generation suddenly used for such a purpose you are going to have (costly) problems.  Just look at the network stability issues that Germany suffered when they implemented very aggressive renewable targets before the grid was ready for it.

The government of the day promoted the scheme to stay in the good books with the Greens who at the time held a lot of sway in the senate.  It was a very poorly thought out scheme (like pink batts) that was all about satisfying an ideology rather than a long term strategy.  Thankfully the dust is settling somewhat and we are seeing some more realistic schemes.

[gronk]

In a nut shell current solar installs should be designed with HIGH USAGE LOW EXPORT in mind.   

Jet    

That's why I'm not getting solar panels until they work out how to get them operating during the night time !!      Seriously..that's when my power usage is !

My power bill is approx $1300 per year, and I just couldn't see a return on 10 to 20 K even with the old 44c .....unless I was 100% offsetting my power bills. And then it was still a 8yr plus return .

[JD-120]

That's why I'm not getting solar panels until they work out how to get them operating during the night time !!      Seriously..that's when my power usage is !

My power bill is approx $1300 per year, and I just couldn't see a return on 10 to 20 K even with the old 44c .....unless I was 100% offsetting my power bills. And then it was still a 8yr plus return .

my olds have a similar leccy bill. they have 4kw solar and get get about a 1500-2000 credit every year, so effectively 2500-3000 better off each yr

My bill used to average  between the seasons 700-1100 / quarter. I now pay about $300 / yr in bills. That should be even better this yr as I have just replaced electric hot water with solar, replaced pool pump with energy efficient version and all down lights are now LED's. There is a few thousand investment there for those replacements, but will effectively pay for them selves in my mind.

[Murph]

Crickey ! I better not mention my PFIT of 66 c in Vic till 2024 ! 

[gronk]

my olds have a similar leccy bill. they have 4kw solar and get get about a 1500-2000 credit every year, so effectively 2500-3000 better off each yr

So, they don't pay anything for power ? They are 200 to 700 dollars better off !! How much did the 4kw setup cost though ?

[JD-120]

So, they don't pay anything for power ? They are 200 to 700 dollars better off !! How much did the 4kw setup cost though ?

about 5 k. Paid itself off within 3yrs. 44c tarrif however