Know your Weight Impact on Vehicle and CT GVM - an awareness issue

[Pog]

so no brakes on the trailer doesnt worry you?

Of course the whole setup worries me. The driver should be immediately sterilised!

No brakes on the trailer, single axle, over hang, small tow vehicle etc etc...

[Barry G]

Isn't nostalgia a wonderful thing, everything was so great back then.  Politicians were honest, young people respected their elders, etc etc.

Back in the 70's and 80's there were plenty of vehicle rollovers and crashes on remote roads.  With the absence of sat phones and the fewer amount of people travelling in such areas help was difficult to obtain quickly.  Yes people did get through, but there were plenty of fatalities as well.

I don't disagree Symon, but all the tools under the sun wouldn't help in those circumstances.
Most rollovers and crashes can be avoided by driving to conditions, similarly with mechanical failure.
Travelling at a leisurely ace and in daylight was a well proven strategy back then.
However, can't agree with you about the pollies back then, and Imwas one of those young people, so I KNOW you were wrong on that point!   

[Symon]

All our NORFORCE Patrols get around in stock standard troop carriers. Gov issued.

Yes, and you also have someone you can call in to pull you out of the sh1t anytime, and doesn't cost you anything.  You aren't comparing apples with apples.

There is nothing wrong with having a decent tool kit, by the time you throw in a socket set, spanners, and basic hand tools you are easily up around 20-30kg.  A few basic spare parts (fan belts, etc) will add another 20kg or so, and even more if you take a bit of oil as well.

I agree many people carry too much stuff, but skimping on basic tools and spares doesn't make a lot of sense if you are heading into remote areas.  Do you really want to call in for towtruck because you broke a fan belt and didn't carry a spare or the tools to change it?

Most rollovers and crashes can be avoided by driving to conditions, similarly with mechanical failure.

Yes, most but not all.  The thing is to be prepared, but don't go stupid about it.  Sensible driving does help, but it is no replacement for a bit of preparation.

[02-SR5]

Yes, and you also have someone you can call in to pull you out of the sh1t anytime, and doesn't cost you anything.  You aren't comparing apples with apples.

There is nothing wrong with having a decent tool kit, by the time you throw in a socket set, spanners, and basic hand tools you are easily up around 20-30kg.  A few basic spare parts (fan belts, etc) will add another 20kg or so, and even more if you take a bit of oil as well.

I agree many people carry too much stuff, but skimping on basic tools and spares doesn't make a lot of sense if you are heading into remote areas.  Do you really want to call in for towtruck because you broke a fan belt and didn't carry a spare or the tools to change it?

Not quite.

No external support. All on our own.

My original post, I am not saying, not take tools, or spares.

I am saying, take spares, pack a tool box to get you home. You don't need a complete tool box to rebuild your motor on the side of the road.

Be realistic, do you really need that complete imperial set of tools? When your truck is metric.

Do you really need a complete set of spanners and sockets? Pack only the ones that fit your truck.

This what I am saying, not head out with no tools or spares.

[Barry G]

I always carry my socket & spanner set, screwdrivers and a toolbox of mechicaling stuff.  Likewise oil. If the coolant was to need replacing I have water.
It is always a matter of balance.  I varied a complete set of belts and hoses for the Subaru.  Probably would've made more sense to fit them before the trip.
I can rebuild a VW Beetle on the side of the road, and have the tools and  skills to do it. However, not sure i could do much on a modern vehicle, but hopefully having the tools will be useful if a fellow travel is handy in that respect.

[kylarama]

HK Kingswood.  1/2 & 9/16 ring open enders and 2 screwdrivers kept in the glovebox.
That pretty much covered you for 95% of things.

[achjimmy]

HK Kingswood.  1/2 & 9/16 ring open enders and 2 screwdrivers kept in the glovebox.
That pretty much covered you for 95% of things.

Lol yep. They were also a lot more solid underneath than the modern car. Had a friend with a VL commodore get lost and end up on a dirt track back of mudgee. He got out of there but the stone damage to the underside wrote the car off, this was back when it was a current model.

[achjimmy]

Just about most fourbies loaded up and towing would be exceeding their GVM. The Cruisers GVM standard is pathetic for the car, but even the Pajero (which has one of the bests) is still easily exceeded, two adults, two teenagers, engle, luggage, canoe, ball weight.

[Symon]

No external support. All on our own.

So you are saying if you snapped an axle you couldn't get one air dropped to you?

Be realistic, do you really need that complete imperial set of tools? When your truck is metric.

Don't always assume that your truck is all metric.  My landcruiser should be all metric, but I have found imperial sizes on it more than once.  The wheel nuts for example are 7/8" - go figure.  I got caught on one of the Cape trips once where I carried only metric sizes and I needed to work on the camper, only to find the camper is all imperial.

Do you really need a complete set of spanners and sockets? Pack only the ones that fit your truck.

Unless you have already pulled apart every bit of your truck how do you know what all the sizes are?  It would be nice to know that everything was 10, 12, 14 and 17mm but modern vehicles use a lot more than that.

I agree that you need to be sensible about what you carry, but I would carry a bit more than what you are suggesting.  For example I carry a drill and an angle grinder when I go away, and yes I have have needed to use them more than once.

[fishfinder]

Both my last 2 insurance claims are whilst towing once hit a roo another blown tyre on the Prado and on either claims was I questioned about how loaded the vehicles are...

[Alan Loy]

Unless you have already pulled apart every bit of your truck how do you know what all the sizes are?  It would be nice to know that everything was 10, 12, 14 and 17mm but modern vehicles use a lot more than that.

A bit off topic but wouldn't it be great if you could get a list of the sizes you need for your vehicle.  Perhaps a job for the specialist forums.

By the way does anyone know what a GU CRD Patrol needs

[achjimmy]

Both my last 2 insurance claims are whilst towing once hit a roo another blown tyre on the Prado and on either claims was I questioned about how loaded the vehicles are...

Hey mate in what way did they ask? Curious, as above I have never heard of anyone getting pinged.

[dazzler]

Solely from a policing perspective the investigators are interesting in the causational factors of the accident.  You would have to be WAAAY over the GVM for it to come up as an issue.

It would almost be a case of;

"You were towing THAT with THAT..........  You have got to be kidding me."

I cant recall our investigators having a vehicle weighed except for a semi in a fatal.

[gibbo301]

A shifter and a hammer 

[drenno]

Hi All,
There is some excellent information contained in this somewhat controversial thread, however I believe there is another aspect that will significantly increase the focus on this - economics. All insurance companies are first and foremost a business, their primary focus is to be profitable.

The inclusion of references to compliance in the terms and conditions of an insurance policy are their to provide a degree of protection for the insurer and to make the policy holder aware of conditions relating to the policy. The payment of insurance claims has always been at the discretion of insurance companies (sometimes court sanctioned following litigation).

With regard to the investigation of fatal or serious injury motor vehicle collisions (first hand experience) great scope exists for number and type of examinations that may be carried out on the vehicle/s etc. The Coroner has the most wide reaching scope and powers and may order certain tests or additional tests be done. Included in their findings the Coroner may identify the cause/s, contributing factor/s and/or the party or parties responsible. They may make recommendations (procedural, legal or otherwise) to any stakeholders.  Having a vehicle or vehicle combination weighed is not cost or time prohibitive in the context of this type of investigation. It should also be noted that an insurance company may conduct their own investigation and tests (if applicable, subject to the release of vehicles, exhibits etc by authorities).

I would like to see vehicle manufacturers clearly display important information like load carrying capacity on a vehicle rather than economy figures. This should be in simple terms to assist the consumer in making an informed decision when selecting a vehicle for an application. How many people buy a 4wd with the misconception that they can fit a catalog full of accessories (aftermarket or factory), carry the number of people that there are seats for and their luggage and be anything other than legal?

I believe the focus of compliance in this area is and will only increase.

regards

Drenno

[doc evil]

Not quite.

No external support. All on our own.

My original post, I am not saying, not take tools, or spares.

I am saying, take spares, pack a tool box to get you home. You don't need a complete tool box to rebuild your motor on the side of the road.

Be realistic, do you really need that complete imperial set of tools? When your truck is metric.

Do you really need a complete set of spanners and sockets? Pack only the ones that fit your truck.

This what I am saying, not head out with no tools or spares.

I require all people on our 4wd club trips to carry 2 forms of lifting a vehicle..........

Case....(and it has happened on a trip I was on, names and places are changed to protect the guilty, and no it wasn't me )

You're on a remote trip, say the Anne Beadell, travelling in a convoy of 3 vehicles. You have stretched out to keep dust down. You're tail end charlie.
You call the others that you are stopping for a pit stop and you will catch up to the others. You are now out of UHF range by the time you get back to your vehicle. A photo opportunity arises. This puts you further back. Now, this scenario has been played out many times not only on this trip, but others as well.
Damn, you get a puncture and not realising that it was flat, it's now shredded. You stop and change the tyre. Now you've got the wheel off and due to the terrain, it slips of the jack. You now are stuck, no uhf comms, the truck is on the deck and you now have to wait for your travel buddies to realise some thing is wrong and you haven't caught up and turn around (could be hours) or say you're travelling with your family and the scenario above happens but the rig has fallen trapping you under it. Do you have a second jack that the missus could lift the vehicle off you?

If you are travelling solo (which I mostly do) or with a small group, you need to carry everything.............and then some..........

[DannyG]

I require all people on our 4wd club trips to carry 2 forms of lifting a vehicle..........

Case....(and it has happened on a trip I was on, names and places are changed to protect the guilty, and no it wasn't me )

You're on a remote trip, say the Anne Beadell, travelling in a convoy of 3 vehicles. You have stretched out to keep dust down. You're tail end charlie.
You call the others that you are stopping for a pit stop and you will catch up to the others. You are now out of UHF range by the time you get back to your vehicle. A photo opportunity arises. This puts you further back. Now, this scenario has been played out many times not only on this trip, but others as well.
Damn, you get a puncture and not realising that it was flat, it's now shredded. You stop and change the tyre. Now you've got the wheel off and due to the terrain, it slips of the jack. You now are stuck, no uhf comms, the truck is on the deck and you now have to wait for your travel buddies to realise some thing is wrong and you haven't caught up and turn around (could be hours) or say you're travelling with your family and the scenario above happens but the rig has fallen trapping you under it. Do you have a second jack that the missus could lift the vehicle off you?

If you are travelling solo (which I mostly do) or with a small group, you need to carry everything.............and then some..........

Im still not so sure Id carry two jacks even in this scenario. I have found it is difficult to plan for everything and old Murphy will always throw an obstacle at you that you don't have the spares for but it is rewarding when something goes wrong and you do have the tools/spares/ability to sort it out.
For me it is a matter of weighing up (pardon the pun) the risks and scenarios. Any remote travel I do is going to have a certain amount of risk to it especially in an ageing 4WD but as long as I am covered so no one dies out there then anything else that comes up that leaves me stranded is only going to cost me money and time...and plenty of it!
Only my opinion of course mate not saying your wrong by any means....knowing my luck ill get caught in a situation where I needed a second jack now LOL

Just on a side note, your Patrol looks to have a lot of weight hanging off the back of the chassis??

[weeds]

not trying to be smart

I require all people on our 4wd club trips to carry 2 forms of lifting a vehicle..........

Case....(and it has happened on a trip I was on, names and places are changed to protect the guilty, and no it wasn't me )

You're on a remote trip, say the Anne Beadell, travelling in a convoy of 3 vehicles. You have stretched out to keep dust down. You're tail end charlie.
You call the others that you are stopping for a pit stop and you will catch up to the others. You are now out of UHF range by the time you get back to your vehicle. A photo opportunity arises. This puts you further back. Now, this scenario has been played out many times not only on this trip, but others as well.
Damn, you get a puncture and not realising that it was flat, it's now shredded. You stop and change the tyre. Now you've got the wheel off and due to the terrain, it slips of the jack. You now are stuck, no uhf comms, the truck is on the deck and you now have to wait for your travel buddies to realise some thing is wrong and you haven't caught up and turn around (could be hours) set the jack up right and al should be apples......plus you have your food, water and sleeping stuff so no real need to stress or say you're travelling with your family and the scenario above happens but the rig has fallen trapping you under it.er.....what are you doing under the car with just a jack Do you have a second jack that the missus could lift the vehicle off you?

If you are travelling solo (which I mostly do) or with a small group, you need to carry everything.............and then some..........

I am guilty of filling any spare space.......I  have a weigh bridge at work and have checked tug and CT twice from memory.........camper trailer surprised me at 1300kg, apparently you need brakes once over 750kg

[weeds]

umm, i'm sure my camper is heavier, maybe it didn't have five mountain bikes ~100kg, 1 x adult and 1 x kid missing ~100kg form the car weight, I now have a RV4 on the roof rack

3700 Defender and camper trailer 1A 2K
 2740 Defender by itself 1A 2K
 2800 Defender with trailer connected but off bridge 1A 2K
 1000 Camper trailer by itself
 1240 Front axle weight defender 1A 2K
 1480 Rear axle weight defender 1A 2K
 940 Camper trailer axle weight when connect to defender

GMV is 3050kg
Towing is either 3000kg or 3500kg
Just don't know max. axle weights

[weeds]

umm, i'm sure my camper is heavier, maybe it didn't have five mountain bikes ~100kg, 1 x adult and 1 x kid missing ~100kg form the car weight, I now have a RV4 on the roof rack

3700 Defender and camper trailer 1A 2K
 2740 Defender by itself 1A 2K
 2800 Defender with trailer connected but off bridge 1A 2K
 1000 Camper trailer by itself
 1240 Front axle weight defender 1A 2K
 1480 Rear axle weight defender 1A 2K
 940 Camper trailer axle weight when connect to defender

GMV is 3050kg
Towing is either 3000kg or 3500kg
Just don't know max. axle weights

a quick google search tells me I might be over on the front axle weight

front 1200kg....umm bonnet mounted spare and the PTO winch
rear 1750kg

[chester ver2.0]

It is quite simple stop making caravans so big

I laugh that this months caravan world mag has an article reccomending not to go over 80% of the vehicles towing capasisity, and then in the next article a new xxxx 23 foot van with and ATM of 3300kg is the bees knees


Ohh and i will ask the question on shock absorbers what is everyones obsession with them. Unless it is a strut mount you can still drive without a shock absorber. Yeah it will handle like a pig but still get you home

[fishfinder]

Hey mate in what way did they ask? Curious, as above I have never heard of anyone getting pinged.

sorry worded wrong both claims i was not questioned about loads even though i mentioned the fact i was towing at the time.

[McGirr]

Over weight, not me.

Lst years Gulf Trip. Fully loaded camper, cruiser had 2 fridges full, 2 x big bags for clothes, 3 bottles of scotch and 15 cases of beer all in the back. Then J.K got in. 

Yes we were way overloaded, with the clothes bags. 

Mark

[Metters]

I have seen countless lists of things to take with you in remote areas but none have contained the most important thing to take and leave behind.  On top of your must take list should be plenty of time.  The thing left behind should be a tight holiday schedule that you must stick to.   Roads like the Canning and Anne Beadell don't break cars.  It is the drivers who break them by over loading and going too fast for the conditions. 

A question was asked on Exploroz a couple of years ago about traveling on the Anne Beadell.  One reply said their group did it easily in 5 days and then listed the parts that were broken.  Another said their group took 12 days and did not break anything.

While working with the RAAF near Perth in the early 1970s, a friend returned one Monday morning after driving back from Adelaide over the then unsealed Nullarbor.  He said an idiot in a Monaro went flying past him near Nullarbor Homestead and hit a small washout.  The car blew all four tyres and buckled all four wheels instantly.  No doubt that driver told his mates about the tough car breaking conditions out there.

doc evil

Maybe your 4wd club should revise their convoy procedures.  When someone in my club gets on the radio and says they are stopping, everyone stops. 

[DannyG]

  On top of your must take list should be plenty of time.  The thing left behind should be a tight holiday schedule that you must stick to.   Roads like the Canning and Anne Beadell don't break cars.  It is the drivers who break them by over loading and going too fast for the conditions. 

I agree with this. Any time I am broken things is due to my own fault because of time constraints vs loads vs road conditions.