Asylum Seekers claim to have been beaten by Navy - what do you think?

[Beatle]

We get scores of illegals every month.  The biggest 'group' are those who entered legally on some form of temporary visa, and stay past the expiry date.  I don't see the guvment spending much money tracking this mob down.

[Barry G]

We get scores of illegals every month.  The biggest 'group' are those who entered legally on some form of temporary visa, and stay past the expiry date.  I don't see the guvment spending much money tracking this mob down.

Exactly. And, in my direct experience, many asylum seekers, if accepted and allowed to work, are taking on important but low paid and under valued work that Aussies don't want to do, usually because it is poorly paid and 'unpleasant' in some form.  For example base level workers in nursing homes, etc.
Spent some time in a nursing home over the past couple of years with my partner visiting her dad before he passed away.  Met a number of lovely people with strange names and dark skin, who will make great Aussies if they are eventually given the opportunity.
Meanwhile, some groups who don't need viad are lobbying to be allowed to get new start allowance!   

[ken2m]

They come here for our way of life - or they would stay where they are. isn't that why they come here???

but some people seem blind to the fact that they want things changed to suit themselves, so they aren't *offended*..

Try having Easter, Christmas at your kids school these days. Soon there'll be no Australia day as it will offend them too.

Anyway this thread has run its course.

Just arrived back from touring overseas in Europe for a few weeks (got back on the 6th December 2013) and while there was pleasantly surprised to see CHRISTMAS being celibrated by, well everyone. Including Israel. Yes they were all celibrating CHRISTMAS. The local council has changed their MERRY CHRISTMAS decorations to SEASONS GREETINGS. I am deeply offended by the lack of atempting to assimilate into the AUSTRALIAN community, by a minority of refugees.

Nothing helps their case more than burning their government owned house, or seting fire to a processing facility. This should be reason to return them to their own country where this is more acceptable.
Ken.

[nelso]

Australia is a vast, diverse and welcoming country. Our past is heroic and tragic however we are in 2014 and this is how it is.
We:
* recognise that indigenous Australians were the first humans here
* Christianity is the basis of our laws, customs and with some derivation, way of life (Note: I am an atheist/agnostic)
* English is our national language
* The current flag is our national flag (Note: I would prefer something else)
* We are free to do and pursue basically anything we like as long as it is confined within our current laws and expectations of our current society

We dont:
* Force people to wear certain clothes once their body changes
* accept that English is our second language
* expect that new arrivals bring customs, beliefs or attitudes that impinge upon, or force change to, on what I have outlined above

We are Australia. We get along with everyone. Just don't bring your sh1t or bad attitude to my country.

[grafy82]

Australia is a vast, diverse and welcoming country. Our past is heroic and tragic however we are in 2014 and this is how it is.
We:
* recognise that indigenous Australians were the first humans here
* Christianity is the basis of our laws, customs and with some derivation, way of life (Note: I am an atheist/agnostic)
* English is our national language
* The current flag is our national flag (Note: I would prefer something else)
* We are free to do and pursue basically anything we like as long as it is confined within our current laws and expectations of our current society

We dont:
* Force people to wear certain clothes once their body changes
* accept that English is our second language
* expect that new arrivals bring customs, beliefs or attitudes that impinge upon, or force change to, on what I have outlined above

We are Australia. We get along with everyone. Just don't bring your sh1t or bad attitude to my country.

BINGO!!!   

[BigJules]

I have only read the first page, was gladdened to read some sensible posts.

There is a reason that asylum seekers coming to Australia by boat cost us so much. Hysteria! If everyone calmed TF down they could be accepted and processed without shipping or flying them thousands of kilometres to expensive facilities erected in the highest cost locations.

I don't for a minute advocate that we simply "open the door", but the globally reality is that there are millions of refugees or people under persecution and those that have the capacity to attempt to escape will. And they need to go somewhere. I'm pretty sure others have highlighted the fact that asylum seekers coming by boat are a minority of refugees or illegal immigrants* who come to Australia. Countries like Italy face a far greater number of arrivals than Australia, by virtue of being closer to North Africa where there are some horrific wars going on.

Stop being afraid; these poor b4stards won't take our jobs and rape our women. There might be some bad apples in there, as there are in any group of people, and so our laws will take care of them.

People keep bringing up the fact that asylum seekers pay, so they have money so how bad could it have been for them. If my kids, my family were living in fear I'd do whatever I could to change that too. Those millions of poor people living under a sheet of plastic in a refugee camp for the rest of their lives didn't have the resources to do more than they did. In truth it would probably be harder to integrate those folks into a society like ours just because they have absolutely nothing.

I am an avid listener to the ABC, and was very surprised when I first heard the reports of abuse by Navy on asylum seekers. I felt then that the report had asserted as fact something that was clearly only an allegation, and was almost certainly not true. They made a mistake. Last week the boss of the ABC admitted this and apologised. I also believe the Govt has taken this as a convenient opportunity to attack the ABC and asylum seekers. There is almost certainly Navy video that clears the sailors, but it seems the Govt won't release anything because that would end the debate. The Indon Govt has never been a bastion of morality and this continues. It is the 19th largest country in the world by landmass but the 4th biggest by population. They've got their own issues.

I implore those who feel boat arrivals are a huge problem to seek some independent facts, not those spouts by Alan Jones or Ray Hadley or even our current Govt (whose primary goal was election, not stopping the boats). We don't have to accept them (all) but we don't need to hate them either.

Also, apart from some racist crap on Facebook have you ever heard of any credible evidence that anyone wants to:
Stop Australians celebrating Xmas or Easter?
Rename Australia Day?
fundamentally alter our national being?

It is easy to create a meme that looks like it has facts etc, but most of it is simply untrue. Worse, most of it is copied and altered from some hillbilly US crackpot post and then made to look Australian.

[Terry W4]

We get scores of illegals every month.  The biggest 'group' are those who entered legally on some form of temporary visa, and stay past the expiry date.  I don't see the guvment spending much money tracking this mob down.

They do in fact. The compliance area in each of the DIBP regions undertakes regular raids on employers. They locate and remove somewhere in excess of 8000 per year.

[Terry W4]

Exactly. And, in my direct experience, many asylum seekers, if accepted and allowed to work, are taking on important but low paid and under valued work that Aussies don't want to do, usually because it is poorly paid and 'unpleasant' in some form.  For example base level workers in nursing homes, etc.
Spent some time in a nursing home over the past couple of years with my partner visiting her dad before he passed away.  Met a number of lovely people with strange names and dark skin, who will make great Aussies if they are eventually given the opportunity.
Meanwhile, some groups who don't need viad are lobbying to be allowed to get new start allowance!   

My experience as well with mil is cared for by great carers from Africa in a nursing home. Very skilled and caring.

[muzza01]

We get scores of illegals every month.  The biggest 'group' are those who entered legally on some form of temporary visa, and stay past the expiry date.  I don't see the guvment spending much money tracking this mob down.

A good mate of mine heads up a taskforce in Sydney that tries to catch illegal immigrants that have overstayed their visa.  He works with immigration, Federal Police NSW Police and APS. He has a huge operating budget to catch these guys.  What he does and how much the government spends on catching these guys is not reported in the media because its boring. It is sometimes a huge operation to just catch one person.

His job is difficult because he can't investigate an illegal immigrant until their visa has expired, by that time they can be anywhere. Just because it is not on the news every day like the boat people, does not mean the government is not spending big $$$ trying to catch illegal immigrants that have arrived by plane and overstayed their visa.

[muzza01]

I am an avid listener to the ABC, and was very surprised when I first heard the reports of abuse by Navy on asylum seekers. I felt then that the report had asserted as fact something that was clearly only an allegation, and was almost certainly not true. They made a mistake. Last week the boss of the ABC admitted this and apologised. I also believe the Govt has taken this as a convenient opportunity to attack the ABC and asylum seekers. There is almost certainly Navy video that clears the sailors, but it seems the Govt won't release anything because that would end the debate. The Indon Govt has never been a bastion of morality and this continues. It is the 19th largest country in the world by landmass but the 4th biggest by population. They've got their own issues.

The boss of the ABC has not apologised and refuses to.

The statement says the ABC makes no apologies for covering the story, but the two senior ABC managers say they regret if the ABC's reporting led anyone to mistakenly assume that the ABC supported the asylum seekers' claims.

[Barry G]

The boss of the ABC has not apologised and refuses to.

The statement says the ABC makes no apologies for covering the story, but the two senior ABC managers say they regret if the ABC's reporting led anyone to mistakenly assume that the ABC supported the asylum seekers' claims.

Having heard the initial story IMO no disinterested person would've read it in the way that Abbott, etc have interpreted it, which, of course, was convenient for his on-going campaign of denigrating the ABC.
If a statement of regret, not apology, was always good enough for Howard and the Libs in relation to government actions over the 'stolen generation', then it should also be good enough here.

[Barry G]

I have only read the first page, was gladdened to read some sensible posts.

There is a reason that asylum seekers coming to Australia by boat cost us so much. Hysteria! If everyone calmed TF down they could be accepted and processed without shipping or flying them thousands of kilometres to expensive facilities erected in the highest cost locations.

I don't for a minute advocate that we simply "open the door", but the globally reality is that there are millions of refugees or people under persecution and those that have the capacity to attempt to escape will. And they need to go somewhere. I'm pretty sure others have highlighted the fact that asylum seekers coming by boat are a minority of refugees or illegal immigrants* who come to Australia. Countries like Italy face a far greater number of arrivals than Australia, by virtue of being closer to North Africa where there are some horrific wars going on.

Stop being afraid; these poor b4stards won't take our jobs and rape our women. There might be some bad apples in there, as there are in any group of people, and so our laws will take care of them.

People keep bringing up the fact that asylum seekers pay, so they have money so how bad could it have been for them. If my kids, my family were living in fear I'd do whatever I could to change that too. Those millions of poor people living under a sheet of plastic in a refugee camp for the rest of their lives didn't have the resources to do more than they did. In truth it would probably be harder to integrate those folks into a society like ours just because they have absolutely nothing.

I am an avid listener to the ABC, and was very surprised when I first heard the reports of abuse by Navy on asylum seekers. I felt then that the report had asserted as fact something that was clearly only an allegation, and was almost certainly not true. They made a mistake. Last week the boss of the ABC admitted this and apologised. I also believe the Govt has taken this as a convenient opportunity to attack the ABC and asylum seekers. There is almost certainly Navy video that clears the sailors, but it seems the Govt won't release anything because that would end the debate. The Indon Govt has never been a bastion of morality and this continues. It is the 19th largest country in the world by landmass but the 4th biggest by population. They've got their own issues.

I implore those who feel boat arrivals are a huge problem to seek some independent facts, not those spouts by Alan Jones or Ray Hadley or even our current Govt (whose primary goal was election, not stopping the boats). We don't have to accept them (all) but we don't need to hate them either.

Also, apart from some racist crap on Facebook have you ever heard of any credible evidence that anyone wants to:
Stop Australians celebrating Xmas or Easter?
Rename Australia Day?
fundamentally alter our national being?

It is easy to create a meme that looks like it has facts etc, but most of it is simply untrue. Worse, most of it is copied and altered from some hillbilly US crackpot post and then made to look Australian.

Julian, congratulations on perhaps the most comprehensive and accurate assessment of the range  of issues involved that I have read ANYWHERE in the 15 years that this issue has been running.

[Crimso]

Julian, congratulations on perhaps the most comprehensive and accurate assessment of the range  of issues involved that I have read ANYWHERE in the 15 years that this issue has been running.

This forum needs a "like" button. Would save a lot of crap being posted.

[muzza01]

Having heard the initial story IMO no disinterested person would've read it in the way that Abbott, etc have interpreted it, which, of course, was convenient for his on-going campaign of denigrating the ABC.
If a statement of regret, not apology, was always good enough for Howard and the Libs in relation to government actions over the 'stolen generation', then it should also be good enough here.

 
How did this turn in to a political rant?  I don't care how you think Abbot interpreted it, its not even relevant.  if the ABC  makes a statement of regret (another name for I am not apologising) and the Howard government was happy with that so what, that's got nothing to do with this issue either.

It's the Navy that is copping a bad wrap from the over the top reporting from ABC. This has nothing to do with previous PM's, Liberal vs Labor or religion.

[evolution]

just to add a laugh

Tv Show Sea Patrol is real

Cheers
Evo

[muzza01]

just to add a laugh
Tv Show Sea Patrol is real

Cheers
Evo

 
What an idiot.
Sometimes it is best to remain silent and appear stupid then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[evolution]

This is not a political comment.
this is a personal comment.
She could have borrowed someones phone to GOOGLE it, I mean google still works right?
FFS, don't we pay her over $110k a year as a senator?
that is ridiculous when she can't even use google....


Cheers
Evo

[Barry G]

How did this turn in to a political rant?  I don't care how you think Abbot interpreted it, its not even relevant.  if the ABC  makes a statement of regret (another name for I am not apologising) and the Howard government was happy with that so what, that's got nothing to do with this issue either.

It's the Navy that is copping a bad wrap from the over the top reporting from ABC. This has nothing to do with previous PM's, Liberal vs Labor or religion.

Everything to do with the issue Muzza01, the Minister who is complaining that regret is not good enough was part of the government that used exactly the same term in relation to stolen generations.   Im was pointing out the inconsistency and hypocrisy.
Happy to see anyone post a copy of the transcript of the ABC reporting and identify the exact wording which you claim is OTT.

[Barry G]

Australia is a vast, diverse and welcoming country. Our past is heroic and tragic however we are in 2014 and this is how it is.
We:
* recognise that indigenous Australians were the first humans here
* Christianity is the basis of our laws, customs and with some derivation, way of life (Note: I am an atheist/agnostic)
* English is our national language
* The current flag is our national flag (Note: I would prefer something else)
* We are free to do and pursue basically anything we like as long as it is confined within our current laws and expectations of our current society

We dont:
* Force people to wear certain clothes once their body changes
* accept that English is our second language
* expect that new arrivals bring customs, beliefs or attitudes that impinge upon, or force change to, on what I have outlined above

We are Australia. We get along with everyone. Just don't bring your sh1t or bad attitude to my country.

I ask again, where is the evidence that asylum seekers are bringing "sh1t or bad attitude" to This country.
Most of them are victims of religious persecution, not the perpetrators of it.

[achjimmy]

Having heard the initial story IMO no disinterested person would've read it in the way that Abbott, etc have interpreted it, which, of course, was convenient for his on-going campaign of denigrating the ABC.
If a statement of regret, not apology, was always good enough for Howard and the Libs in relation to government actions over the 'stolen generation', then it should also be good enough here.

Let's just keep this statement  correct and unbiased the Howard government. Some members of the liberal party at the time participated in the "sorry " walks. Costello for one so your statement of "Libs" is off the mark

[Mrs smith]

We get scores of illegals every month.  The biggest 'group' are those who entered legally on some form of temporary visa, and stay past the expiry date.  I don't see the guvment spending much money tracking this mob down.

There is a little difference to consider. Come by plane, we have a record of there entry and you have been checked by customs making sure you haven't bought anything with you deemed illegal.

Maybe the do gooders should all sign up to the navy so can do something positive handling the situation firsthand themselves, I'm sure if they were faced with the same difficulties as those already doing a good job they'd handle it all so differently and then we wouldn't have this apparent problem. lol
 

[muzza01]

Everything to do with the issue Muzza01, the Minister who is complaining that regret is not good enough was part of the government that used exactly the same term in relation to stolen generations.   Im was pointing out the inconsistency and hypocrisy.
Happy to see anyone post a copy of the transcript of the ABC reporting and identify the exact wording which you claim is OTT.

FFS,
Why are you bringing politics into this thread B&B?  The thread is titled:
Re: Asylum Seekers claim to have been beaten by Navy - what do you think?
This thread is not asking about Abbots opinion, Shortens opinion or the Greens opinion. I was asking for forum members opinions.  I brought up on this thread that the ABC should apologise to the Navy and all of my family and friends feel the same way.
I understand you don't like Abbot or the Liberal party but this thread was not for political rants. Lets keep political beliefs out of it.
If if generates in to a political 5hitfight, I will ask the Mods to lock it.

[oldsalt]

I'm very glad that I'm no longer in the Navy - they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't...

[alnjan]

I ask again, where is the evidence that asylum seekers are bringing "sh1t or bad attitude" to This country.
Most of them are victims of religious persecution, not the perpetrators of it.

There have been numerous news articles of alleged Asylum Seekers bringing in the "sh1t or bad attitude" and going through our Judical system for the same.   

[grafy82]

I ask again, where is the evidence that asylum seekers are bringing "sh1t or bad attitude" to This country.
Most of them are victims of religious persecution, not the perpetrators of it.

You are joking, seriously, aren't you?
Some just love to bury their heads in the sand and pretend there is no problem.