Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[CBRK]

But that's the main reason I went for a KK board - to actually learn how to fly properly without all the electronics doing half the work for me.

For those of you with KK boards - how many of you always fly/flew with the Self level on and how many switch it off?

I only used the self level occasionally,  i found it struggled with descents and getting clear air, when it tried to recover it would struggle. I think with some PID tuning it would have done better.

Those with tuned frames seem to say its a good recovery option if things go bad. So most seem to fly with no self level and use it when it goes bad.

Regards,

Chris

[Mandrake]

Curious things happened today !!
Couldn't get a GPS lock down by the Werribee River -- Tried to fly without GPS on and had a bit of trouble as there was a bit of wind -
After takeoff each time ( 3 times I tried ) the Gimbal went into pitch rollover mode continuously - tangled up the sensor cable -
Took it home to the work shed - GPS worked fine !! - Gimbal - hopeless - Just ordered a new controller board and sensor - and a complete new gimbal
(Just in case ) ...
The yanks are complaining about Solar Flares interrupting GPS signals ?? Could that be what it was or did I just strike the part of the day when only
3 or 4 satellites were overhead ??
So no video today boys n girls ... The FPV worked really well though !! LOL ..
Mandrake

[Spartan]

Thanks for the info. I would have thought the idea would be to fly fully manual and just use the self leveling to get you out of trouble. The tri I watched the other day was in self level the whole time and it really wobbled around on descent so I'm guessing it needed some more tuning or setting up.

The motors were only noisy at certain RPMs so I'll wait until they are all mounted and connected up so I can spin them up properly.

[Marschy]

I think the reason my last flight with the F450 was such a disaster was simply due to that one motor binding. Every time I spun the motors up, that one motor was noticeably slower. If it doesn't improve the next time I fly it, I will use one of the other NTM's that I was originally going to put on the Alien. The Reptile was flying fine on 4 NTM's.

[CBRK]

Thanks for the info. I would have thought the idea would be to fly fully manual and just use the self leveling to get you out of trouble. The tri I watched the other day was in self level the whole time and it really wobbled around on descent so I'm guessing it needed some more tuning or setting up.

Hi Spartan,

Sounds good to me, just to let you know all rotor blades will stall during a fast vertical descent.  The only way to avoid this is to move either forwards, sideways or in reverse, to move the blades in to clean air.  Essentially the dirty air means the rotor blades stall (they still spin) and fail to generate lift.

I had two incidents where my tricopter became unstable and hit the ground from self level and descending too fast (basically one would stall and in a tri there is no forgiveness if you loose a motor - it cant relevel it).

Even the APM should have the same problem as it's more an airframe issue but so far I've not had a crash from this (had a close one but it was able to stay level and I just caught it in time).  Just remember you can go vertically up fast but coming straight down is slow or do it while moving.

When you think about the number of full size helos you see out there you rarely see them descend straight down (and if they do it's really, really slowly), this is because it's even worse for a helicopter, they have one rotor and if it loses lift then they have a significant risk of crashing.

Fingers crossed the 'forecast weather' is yet to occur and I think I'll finally get to go for a fly tomorrow afternoon!!!

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

The new Hobbyking power modules arrived today. In mission planner I have it setup as Monitor: current and amps, Sensor: 3DR power module, and APM Ver: APM 2.5+ - 3DR Power Module.

The voltage is out by 0.3 volts, which is just 0.1 volt higher than what they recommend without calibrating the module using the 'Other' sensor. But when I calibrate the module I am still getting extreme voltages when the quad is armed (40+ volts). It's not happening when it's set to 3DR power module. So I think I'll live with it being out by 0.3 volts. At least the failsafe warnings are not appearing on the HUD anymore.

[CBRK]

The new Hobbyking power modules arrived today. In mission planner I have it setup as Monitor: current and amps, Sensor: 3DR power module, and APM Ver: APM 2.5+ - 3DR Power Module.

The voltage is out by 0.3 volts, which is just 0.1 volt higher than what they recommend without calibrating the module using the 'Other' sensor. But when I calibrate the module I am still getting extreme voltages when the quad is armed (40+ volts). It's not happening when it's set to 3DR power module. So I think I'll live with it being out by 0.3 volts. At least the failsafe warnings are not appearing on the HUD anymore.

Hi Mark,

I think mine is out by .25V so I wouldnt think too much about it, much better to get figures that dont jump around.  My 12.6V batteries start with 12.35V or there abouts, so I know when it hits 10.1v under load that its time to land.  My 3s 5000mah seem to jump right back up to healthy 11.x after leaving to rest for a few minutes (I use approx 4200mah).

I got a good 4.5km flight in today (around 35 mins using 2 batteries) and could have stayed up even longer but had to get home :-)  Top speed was 45km/h so I'm pretty happy with that (even in strong winds).

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

I got a good 4.5km flight in today (around 35 mins using 2 batteries) and could have stayed up even longer but had to get home :-)  Top speed was 45km/h so I'm pretty happy with that (even in strong winds).

Was that 2 x 5000mAH batteries paralleled? Thats pretty impressive.

[CBRK]

Was that 2 x 5000mAH batteries paralleled? Thats pretty impressive.

Sadly no, it should have said flights (2 in total)......  But I did get around 20 mins from one battery and 15 from the other, and the 2nd had some spare so I reckon I'd be able to get 30mins no problems if I put them in parallel.  Hmmmm, now you got me thinking :-)  I was driving it pretty hard most of the time, so I reckon I could get close to 35-40 mins if I was just cruising around.

I did have one failed takeoff, I think I need to redesign my landing gear to have flat plates at the bottom as they get stuck on the grass at the oval and it causes it to flip.  I have to really commit to a take off on non concrete ground....

At one stage I had it in loiter mode and took it up to around 25m and it was at a 30 degree bank just to hold position in the strong winds.  I brought it back down to around 5m so the wind wouldn't affect it so much.  Was interesting to see that I get the odd spike to 30+ amps, on review of the logs, my OSD reports around 10-16 amps for my flying (never noticed the 30+ amp spike).  It looks like when I rapidly go from fast forward flight to hover it it has to really work and it spikes up to 30+ amps.  Still well below any of my components thresholds :-)

Still yet to swap connectors on my 2 newer batteries, sigh.   So I'll have to see if I can get my batts charged when I get home for another set of flights.  Delivering an SES Floodboat course this weekend so no chance to fly (not to mention it is forecast to rain the weekend).

I was using the telemetry link for some of the flying, so I would set random GPS points in the oval and off it would go.  Very impressive.  Time for some planned missions next week.

I did an auto tune the other day and it was successful, just need to give it time (oh and lots of space, it does like to wander).

I did 30% of the flying FPV on the monitor, and it wasnt too bad, it was extremely helpful when I lost LOS as it blended in to a stadium that is in the background.  Looked right at the monitor and was able to bring it back to me without looking back up.  Much easier to keep an object in the cameras FOV using FPV.  Damn I can see myself investing in a set of googles.... Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Regards,

Chris

[allan.kidd]

My wife would KILL me if I were to buy one of these......

However (just asking) - what models are recommended and what are the merits/faults of each?

[Marschy]

My wife would KILL me if I were to buy one of these......

However (just asking) - what models are recommended and what are the merits/faults of each?

Really depends upon budget and what you want to do.

My aim is using my quads as a camera platform for getting aerial footage of places I visit and I am working towards this goal, albeit slowly.

Tri-copters have a good reputation as a camera platform due to their inherent stability. This is mostly due to their largish wheelbase size (space between each motor) but this stability is also achievable is similarly sized wheel base quads and other multi-rotors in my opinion  (y6, hex, octo).

Tri-copters also have nice yaw characteristics that result in pleasing results when videoing from them. There are good examples of this on Flitetest and rcexplorer web sites.
Similar 'pleasing' yaw characteristics can also be achieved using clever flight controllers such as the APM platform with flight modes such as Drift mode.

Others will weigh in with their opinions I am sure, but again, your budget will largely dictate what you are going to be able to do.

If you are looking at videography then you would not want to consider anything less than a 350mm wheelbase quad copter. Under this size and you will struggle to get sufficient flight time and/or payload in the air (camera gimbals etc) to achieve stable video. 450mm seems pretty popular in quads for videography, but the sizes of quads can go much higher when a digital SLR camera is slung under the quad, and as the size of the camera increases (the payload), so does the cost of the multi-rotor craft.

If you are looking for a platform for a bit of fun, then there are a whole heap of different configurations to meet virtually any budget. 250mm wheel base seems to be very popular for racing with FPV.

[CBRK]

My wife would KILL me if I were to buy one of these......

However (just asking) - what models are recommended and what are the merits/faults of each?

Hi Allan,

When you ask which models do we recommend, are you after something that is Ready to Fly?

Reason I ask is that you really have two options, do you buy or build.  This is will be linked to both desire and budget :-)

If your looking at buying a ready to fly I'm afraid I cant offer to much other than general advice and that there are a multitude of choices and make sure you read lots of reviews......

Now if you are planning on building, then we can help you out a bit more.

Firstly you need to work out what you intend to use it for.  Like Marschy, I like to get aerial footage of places I visit, plus I find it nice and relaxing, helps to destress me after work.  I'm also taking it slowly but I'm getting more confidence with it (wishing I was at this stage when I went to Fraser in Sept).

There are a range of reasons for wanting one, from aerial photography to have a FPV racer.  Once you know what you want to do with it then you can work out which frame or frames will suit you the best.

For me the Tricopter is a good stable platform for aerial photography and allows for some fun flying.  As Marschy pointed out, it has the benefit of a yaw mechanism which limits the roll on a yaw motion and the large motor to motor distance means it is very stable.

I'll be building a quad in the future, just not yet.  I have a Bixler 2 for more graceful higher flying (still plan to stay legal though), to get a longer duration and get better video footage, maybe even try from aerial mapping too, just for fun.

Once you start your bank balance and wife will not be thanking you but hell it is a lot of fun!!

The key bit of advice that you'll need is that if you buy a Ready to Fly (RTF) that you still buy lots of spare props and landing gear.  You'll go through them.  Also buy a few spare batteries, so much better to end your flying day when you want rather than the batteries running out.

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

The other thing to consider right up front. Get at least an 8-9 channel radio, don't much around with a 6 channel.

[CBRK]

The other thing to consider right up front. Get at least an 8-9 channel radio, don't much around with a 6 channel.

Couldnt agree more, I'm using more and more channels......  Using 6 currently and soon to to be 7.....

[Marschy]

Emax has some really cool, excellent quality quads, hexcopters, full kits including flight control boards. You need to register to see the prices and have either an MSN or Skype account.
Here are a few of the products they have on offer. Really good prices. Yes that is an SJ4000 for $66US.

http://www.emaxmodel.com/index.asp

[Mandrake]

Christmas is coming early -- Bit the bullet and ordered some bits n pieces including one from the above - an Emax 4 in 1 ESC ...
Went nuts and bought this http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51425__HobbyKing_174_Alien_560_Folding_Quad_Copter_Carbon_Fiber_Version_Kit_.html
Going to have DJI Naza M Lite and DJI radio ( I understand how they work and very little programming required . )
So I am constructing my own quad .. I hope I get it right >>> LOL

[Marschy]

Christmas is coming early -- Bit the bullet and ordered some bits n pieces including one from the above - an Emax 4 in 1 ESC ...
Went nuts and bought this http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51425__HobbyKing_174_Alien_560_Folding_Quad_Copter_Carbon_Fiber_Version_Kit_.html
Going to have DJI Naza M Lite and DJI radio ( I understand how they work and very little programming required . )
So I am constructing my own quad .. I hope I get it right >>> LOL

That quad looks familiar 

What motors are you considering? Did you order your ESC's from the Emax website Mandrake? If so, what where the shipping costs like?

Your setup is going to be very similar to mine. I opted for Multistar 30 amp OPTO's, which I put in to the landing gear which is where they are designed to go on this quad. It meant having to remove the heat shrink from the ESC's and reversing the direction of the power cables which was an easy job. Otherwise the power cables come out of the ESC in the opposite direction to the holes in the frame that they feed into. You have to lengthen the power cables if you put them here anyway, so I did this to keep it as tidy as possible.



As you can see there is so much real estate on these quads you have heaps of choices where to mount hardware. There is ample space to mount ESC's virtually anywhere.



My PSU is underneath the quad, but this give you a good idea of what distance I had to lengthen the ESC power cables. The black curly loom wiring is the ESC power cables. They are waiting for a power distribution board to arrive, then they will all be neatly tucked under the battery tray which is slung under the belly of the quad.



Cheers, Marschy

[Mandrake]

Only got one ESC so wiring will be extended from motors to the Emax 25amp 4 in 1..Motors are Mars MX2212 920 kV..
I just hope I've got that right as am a bit worried about how the 4 in 1 will connect to Naza ??
Guess I find out later ...,LOL.
Was the frame easy to put together ?

[Marschy]

Only got one ESC so wiring will be extended from motors to the Emax 25amp 4 in 1..Motors are Mars MX2212 920 kV..
I just hope I've got that right as am a bit worried about how the 4 in 1 will connect to Naza ??
Guess I find out later ...,LOL.
Was the frame easy to put together ?

Just disconnect the red power lead from the BEC servo leads and the ESC will work fine with the Naza. Finding space for the ESC combo may be another issue. The combo units take up a lot of space so will probably have to go right up front on the quad. The good thing is, you have four surfaces to mount hardware, being the top and bottom of each of the carbon fibre sandwich plates. I'll leave that for you to work out, but in the meantime if you want dimensions sing out and I'll get the calipers out.

The sequence of putting it together gets a mention in the discussion thread on Hobbyking. Easy to put together, but once you have it together, just unscrew the top then you can work on it really easily, like in the second picture I posted above.

You will notice once you receive your kit that I've replaced the 14mm aluminium standoffs between the bottom of the quad and the battery tray with black nylon 20mm standoffs. You can see them in the last photo. In between that space is a great place for the PSU for the Naza and it isolates any noise from the PSU and the flight controller a bit because of the carbon fibre plate between the two. Plus I'll be putting a power distribution board in there as well (if I ever receive it that is, it's been in transit 31 days as of today).

The wire you need for extending motor leads to the ESC is 14 awg from HK.

[Mandrake]

Thanks for the info ... Can't wait for all this to arrive now - Probably have to sell my FC40 once I get this going ...

[Marschy]

I reckon a good investment with this hobby is getting one of these crimping tools. This size does servo leads, and at $14 well worth the money spent

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TH1834



Also get yourself at least 100+ 2.5mm cable ties. You'll find, like me, you tie something down as you are building, then you find out it's not quite in the position you want it, so you cut the cable tie and start again.

[BBwilly]

This thread needs to locked and deleted it could end up costing me some serious $$$ in the near future 

[BBwilly]

Hi Allan,

When you ask which models do we recommend, are you after something that is Ready to Fly?

Reason I ask is that you really have two options, do you buy or build.  This is will be linked to both desire and budget :-)

If your looking at buying a ready to fly I'm afraid I cant offer to much other than general advice and that there are a multitude of choices and make sure you read lots of reviews......

Now if you are planning on building, then we can help you out a bit more.

Firstly you need to work out what you intend to use it for.  Like Marschy, I like to get aerial footage of places I visit, plus I find it nice and relaxing, helps to destress me after work.  I'm also taking it slowly but I'm getting more confidence with it (wishing I was at this stage when I went to Fraser in Sept).

There are a range of reasons for wanting one, from aerial photography to have a FPV racer.  Once you know what you want to do with it then you can work out which frame or frames will suit you the best.

For me the Tricopter is a good stable platform for aerial photography and allows for some fun flying.  As Marschy pointed out, it has the benefit of a yaw mechanism which limits the roll on a yaw motion and the large motor to motor distance means it is very stable.

I'll be building a quad in the future, just not yet.  I have a Bixler 2 for more graceful higher flying (still plan to stay legal though), to get a longer duration and get better video footage, maybe even try from aerial mapping too, just for fun.

Once you start your bank balance and wife will not be thanking you but hell it is a lot of fun!!

The key bit of advice that you'll need is that if you buy a Ready to Fly (RTF) that you still buy lots of spare props and landing gear.  You'll go through them.  Also buy a few spare batteries, so much better to end your flying day when you want rather than the batteries running out.

Regards,

Chris

So what would be a good starting point with building do you import from overseas etc.

When I was a young my father and I built small fly by wire planes together the type you stood in the middle and smashed it into the ground lol it was a fun time of my life with him he would read the plans and we would work together on it something I remember fondly things have changed these days but my son loves working on projects with me and is bored with his toys unless he is taking it apart or putting it back together maybe its just in the blood?

I have built CNC routers and many other things etc so nothing much I cant put my mind into doing.



Thx Willy

So some guidance would be appreciated

[Mandrake]

I am an absolute num num when it comes to flying anything R/C so I bought the Phantom FC40 as a starter - It wasn't cheap but it had GPS control which means if its setup right if you let go of the sticks it stops and hovers until battery runs down then it lands all by itself ... I've had a ball with it and now I'm going to build something based on the Phantom electronics but with a bit more
capability as far as carrying camera etc ... My old FC40 will be up for sale probably early next year .. You can still get them from China and USA ..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DJI-Phantom-FC40-RC-Quadcopter-Drone-UAV-WiFi-Camera-GPS-2-RTF-Spy-Aerial-Vision-/221352102486?pt=Radio_Control_Vehicles&hash=item33899d0a56
They are pretty tough - crashed mine a few times and only broke props ..

[Marschy]

Hello BBwilly,

If you want to build something yourself, there are two ways you can go.

1. Scratch build. Find some plans on the internet and build a tri-copter or a quadcopter out of light ply and timber booms. Heaps of plans to be found. Google is your friend. Recommend RC Explorer and Flite test web sites for sources of plans and information.
2. Kit build. Look at some of the excellent value kits that you can get from sites like eBay, Aliexpress, Goodluckbuy, Thanksbuyer. You will need some soldering skills, not too hard though. Just do a search on Aliexpress for quadcopter kit and lose a few hours while you search. There are hundreds of options, but I recommend getting a kit with a radio with at least 8 channels.

If you want to buy something that doesn't need assembly, or very little assembly, look for
1. ARF (Almost ready to fly, requires some assembly)
2. PNF (Plug and fly, plug in your own radio receiver and your ready to go)
3. BNF (Bind and fly, bind the radio to the receiver and you are ready to go, this is the most complete option)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__592__501__Multi_Rotors_Parts-RTF_PNF_ARF.html

If you are looking for parts where you can roll your own, then Aliexpress, ebay, goodluckbuy, thanksbuyer have literally 100's of options. Some of the motor manufacturers have their own websites that offer kits, build your own parts, but as I have found, finding these sites is more a case of tripping over them as you cruise the net looking for parrts. Here is a site I found only this week.

http://www.emaxmodel.com/