Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[CBRK]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/drones-filling-queensland-skies-within-dangerous-proximity-of-aircraft/story-fnihsrk2-1227108980317

There are lots of factual errors in that article.  There was alot I agree with too.

Some items that I have an issue with.....

Most cities are covered by controlled airspace but have a floor set on them, so once you get out of 5nm from an airfield the floor is often thousands of feet hight, so flying in a park at greater than 400ft is perfectly legal.  As long as you dont then go above the floor alt.  Case in point for where I fly, I am not in controlled airspace below several thoughts of feet, but I live in a special area that can be a nofly zone when advised by a NOTAM.  Can I access NOTAM's easily, nope and that is a real issue.

You are allowed to fly within 5nm of an airfield you must stay below 400ft.  And not fly over the airfield or fly in or around the approach / departure areas.  Thats what is in the CASA Regulation, not the fairy tale the person believes.

A sporting field is only a populous area once there are a volume of people.  So the odd person on the beach or the park is not considered populous (this is one that I feel the regulation doesn't have enough detail on when it switches so it's a bit subjective)

Commercial RPA operators like to think they are the only ones allowed to fly above 400ft, simply not true.  They have to seek approval to do so.  Commercial operators are the ones that are banned from a number of things, but they think that their rules apply to hobbyists, sure there are some rules that apply to all but they have additional restrictions on them.  It stems from the training they do, they get told it there and then believe it to be true.

There is plenty of existing regulations to that give CASA enforcement powers if a person flys in the vicinity of an airliner.....

I have strong doubts the drone operators he's talking about in the 'controlled' airspace of coolangatta are actually in the controlled part.  I've caught out other supposed RPA experts saying a person was in controlled airspace but once educated they realise I was right....

Things I agree with:

Idiots need to stop cloud surfing as it is not allowed at all.  Those posting and doing in Australian airspace should be fined.  These are the people that are really causing issues for this hobby.

Those flying in places like the harbour bridge, etc.... Should be fined.  If they get within 30m of the structure.


I think also people need to realise if they are in public then they have no expectation of privacy at all.  That means if you like to sunbake topless or nude in your backyard, then people need to realise they risk being seen by others, including those that might be flying.  Camera technology doesnt really allow for people to spy into peoples homes, but I do agree that existing privacy laws should be enforced if people try to see into homes that would not normally be able to from the street should be hit with the existing laws.  Plus if people move into the harassment territory then they should also be fined with existing legislation.

I think it shows a sad state of journalism when they cant even get the facts right, now people read this and think it's the truth when it is far from it, so many factual errors.

The above is based upon CASA regulations, the actual law that applies to this, not some fairy tale.

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

What ticks me off is the quoting of part of the regulation in these articles that are deliberately phrased to make people question any person using a drone. Statements like "It also restricts users from flying over “populous areas” including beaches, backyards, heavily populated parks and sports ovals.", but fails to add the last part of the regulation from the CASA website with regard to sports ovals "where there is a game in progress". This makes a HUGE difference to peoples perceptions as most people read the crap in the media and take it as gospel.

The "What's allowed" rules for model aircraft and remote piloted aircraft are as follows directly from the CASA sight.

What's allowed?
RPA (Edit: Remote Piloted Aircraft, these rules apply when the aircraft is not operated within line of sight but are controlled via FPV, users of these vehicles must be licensed)

• Unmanned aircraft activities are approved for operations over unpopulated areas up to 400 feet AGL (above ground level) (120 metres), or higher with special approvals.
• Special approvals are also required for other areas.
• Operations are not permitted in controlled airspace without CASA approval and coordination with Airservices Australia
• Can be operated in visual meteorological conditions (VMC) and /or instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) with appropriate approvals.

Model aircraft (Edit: These users do not need to be licensed)

• You should only fly a model aircraft in visual line-of-sight, in day visual meteorological conditions (VMC). What does that mean?
       
  • no night flying
  • no flying in or through cloud or fog, and
  • you should be able to see the aircraft with your own eyes (rather than through its point-of-view camera) at all times

• You must not fly a model aircraft over populous areas such as beaches, other people's backyards, heavily populated parks, or sports ovals where there is a game in progress.
• In controlled airspace, which covers most Australian cities, model aircraft must not be flown higher than 400 feet (120 metres)
• You should not fly closer than 5.5km from an airfield.

pop•u•lous (?p?p y? l?s)

adj.
1. containing many residents or inhabitants; heavily populated: a populous area.
2. jammed or crowded with people.
3. forming or comprising a large number or quantity; numerous.

The image in the article showing a beach in the background next to a populated area does not show an operator breaking any law, what for example is directly below the UAV.

What is particularly annoying is the article states that there are 10,000+ drones in Australia, yet the article makes mention of less than a handful of incidents, work out the statistics for yourself, the number of reported incidents is stuff all, yet we are all being painted as irresponsible.

[CBRK]

What ticks me off is the quoting of part of the regulation in these articles that are deliberately phrased to make people question any person using a drone. Statements like "It also restricts users from flying over “populous areas” including beaches, backyards, heavily populated parks and sports ovals.", but fails to add the last part of the regulation from the CASA website with regard to sports ovals "where there is a game in progress". This makes a HUGE difference to peoples perceptions as most people read the crap in the media and take it as gospel.

I agree Mark, it's all about conditioning people which only causes issues.  State what is allowed, and that is what is really allowed and then people wont feel like we've doing the wrong thing and try to call someone to do something about it.  It annoys me when I see articles like this one.

Having said that I'm yet to have 1 person say they don't like what I'm doing, I've had heaps of people come and have a look and say it's really cool.

I think it's more about a commercial operator seeing hobbyists and saying hey if I have xyz restrictions so should they......  Not to mention I'd suggest a journalist (and I use that term loosely) has gone ringing around the commercial RPA operators trying to get someone willing to say that 'yep those cowboys are a risk to airplanes, just like happened recently in the US, can it happen here'.  Yep and if those cowboys did something wrong, there are existing regs to take care of them.

Chris

[Marschy]

What sets a precedence with this article is the mention of terrorism. Let's hope the media don't start using the word like a self fulfilling prophesy.

[Marschy]

Chris and Spartan,

David Windestal's new V3 tricopter

http://youtu.be/2GwZsdEpAa4?list=UU9zTuyWffK9ckEz1216noAw
	Small | Large

[CBRK]

Chris and Spartan,

David Windestal's new V3 tricopter

http://youtu.be/2GwZsdEpAa4?list=UU9zTuyWffK9ckEz1216noAw

He released it late September, I subscribe to his channel, he's now trying to make a living off it, I wish him well.  Good to see he was able to go visit the US and do some work on Rotor DR1.

It would be great to own a CNC machine.....  The things you can do.

I find the flite test guys to be a good bunch, just having fun and expanding the hobby, it's great.

Chris

[Spartan]

I knew the V3 was coming out so I was keeping a close eye on his website so I could order one, but of course I was away on holidays when he released them and they were all sold out by the time I got home.

Now I'm hanging out until probably late this month for it to turn up .

I subscribe to and check out both him and flitetest every week when I'm home from work.

[Darcy7]

OHHHHHHH

Seriously want one of these....!!!

http://www.news.com.au/video/id-Q2YXdocTo4vJAlLbDW2Y9n_Q8mepig0F
forget the Go Pro...!

[Marschy]

This technology has taken a giant leap forward in the last 12 months, its staggering how much it has advanced in so short an amount of time

[CBRK]

Hi,

Finally got a chance to test out the flight time with a 3s 5000mah battery.  Overall very happy, I've calculated that I'll get between 20-22mins out of a full battery, I only had it up in the air for around 16 mins today.  I like the minimOSD-extra interface, I get a nice flight summary at the end of each flight.  Whats great is that the battery mah consumed is not reset until you unplug the battery and plug a new one in so no need for me to modify the OSD code to do it.  Flight distance was 1.2km today, so I'm pretty happy.

Was using my new camera tray (homemade), and I'm impressed the vibrations are minimal (just using bent 1.2mm music wire).  I'll upload the OSD footage to my youtube channel.  I'm yet to look at the footage saved on the camera, so wont know how good it is until I have a look at it.

I was surprised when the OSD was reporting low voltage after only 3000mah consumed so I put it on the ground to work out what was going on.  Time to update the OSD low voltage warning, it seems i have it set too high as the battery bounced back to 12.3v within a second or two on the ground.

Something posted on diydrones is a new tool which you can upload your tlogs or logs to and it will do all the flight logging.  It's a beta so there a lot of missing basic features but I like it, you just upload the log and it does the rest :-).  It's called exmaps.com

It looks like they'll be adding features as they go which is good.  I was looking at doing something up myself but just dont have the time and this tool has a great potential.  What are others using to track the flight time, etc.....

Chris

[CBRK]

Hi,

Well I have to say that the stabilisation of using the 1.2mm music wire is brilliant, there is very little vibration coming through on the Pilot HD camera.  It seems so odd that something that is so easily pushed laterally just absorbs the vibrations.  I've got some 1.5mm music wire that I'll try too, as David's switched to using 1.5mm in his most recent design.

So now that I have far more space, I can finally mount both the gopro clone and the FPV camera!!  Will be trying that out on Thursday night.  After a few weeks of good flights I'll strap the gopro on.

Hi Mark,

lol, i've been waiting for my sonar to arrive and thought I'd check when I'm likely to get it.  Sigh it looks like I didnt hit one of the submit buttons..... Grrr, so I just ordered it again.  Has your's arrived yet?

How's your flying going so far?  This week looks like a bust for me as it is forecast to rain for most of it....

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

G'day Chris,

Since I found out my power modules were a POS, the quads haven't been back in the air. I want to make sure all of the failsafe systems are working like they should be before I fly them again. I'm expecting them to arrive any day now from Hobbyking.

I ordered the sonar and optical flow sensor from Thanksbuyer on the 24th October. It was still sitting in an airport in China as of the 6th November according to the tracking status. What I've read about Thanksbuyer and Goodluckbuiy is much the same. If you order directly from them and not through Aliexpress, order via snail mail. Otherwise they just take your money for shipping and pocket it. This has already happened to me with Goodluckbuy. However Goodluckbuy's service through Aliexpress has been nothing but brilliant.

I haven't been using the logging feature yet in APM, but plan to.

I've been busy though, putting the Alien560 together. So far lot's of soldering and crimping getting servo leads and ESC power cables to the right length to save weight. The cable runs are quite long so the weight saving should be considerable. I was originally going to put new Tarot motor mounts on without trimming the boom arms, which would have added 104mm to the wheelbase, making it 664mm, but I ended up trimming them so the wheel base is back to 560mm. The frame is turning out quite nicely. Waiting on a power distribution board from Aliexpress which has been in-country since the 25th October. I'm not sure what the holdup is, but I would expect it is the usual Xmas holdup with customs.

Cheers, Mark

[CBRK]

G'day Chris,

Since I found out my power modules were a POS, the quads haven't been back in the air. I want to make sure all of the failsafe systems are working like they should be before I fly them again. I'm expecting them to arrive any day now from Hobbyking.

I ordered the sonar and optical flow sensor from Thanksbuyer on the 24th October. It was still sitting in an airport in China as of the 6th November according to the tracking status. What I've read about Thanksbuyer and Goodluckbuiy is much the same. If you order directly from them and not through Aliexpress, order via snail mail. Otherwise they just take your money for shipping and pocket it. This has already happened to me with Goodluckbuy. However Goodluckbuy's service through Aliexpress has been nothing but brilliant.

I haven't been using the logging feature yet in APM, but plan to.

I've been busy though, putting the Alien560 together. So far lot's of soldering and crimping getting servo leads and ESC power cables to the right length to save weight. The cable runs are quite long so the weight saving should be considerable. I was originally going to put new Tarot motor mounts on without trimming the boom arms, which would have added 104mm to the wheelbase, making it 664mm, but I ended up trimming them so the wheel base is back to 560mm. The frame is turning out quite nicely. Waiting on a power distribution board from Aliexpress which has been in-country since the 25th October. I'm not sure what the holdup is, but I would expect it is the usual Xmas holdup with customs.

Cheers, Mark

Hi,

I hate that waiting game :-(

Hmmm, so I have a long wait then for the sonar, I cant believe that I hadnt hit the last button, I hate my work PC.....

Is that board carbon fibre?  Looks nice I have to say.

The logging feature is great, I've been able to review each of my flights which has been extremely handy.  It's nice to know that I have both the onboard logs and the telemetry logs, so if I loose the thing I'll know where it is (not to mention the saved OSD output).

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

Is that board carbon fibre?  Looks nice I have to say.

Yes it is carbon fibre. This is the frame on Hobbyking.

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51425__HobbyKing_174_Alien_560_Folding_Quad_Copter_Carbon_Fiber_Version_Kit_.html

There are quite a few variations of this frame on Goodluckbuy, but the Hobbyking version is considerably cheaper considering it's carbon fibre. Most of the GLB versions are around the same price but the frame is usually glass fibre.

I'm waiting for pay day to get some of these motors from Hobbyking. They have long leads which will work perfectly on the Alien which has hollow carbon fibre booms. It is going to be a very tidy quad once it's finished.



These are the reason I went for different motor mounts. I've seen examples of the Alien560 with similar size motors, but with only 2 screws holding the motor to the mount because that is all that it appears it will fit.

My working conditions have changed considerably due to poor health. So I'm now only working 4 days/week, and my pay has dived by 20%. So once I get these quads all sorted out, then I will be just maintaining them to keep them in the air.

The only remaining big ticket items I need to buy to get the Alien going is the motors, a Vtx, suitable carbon fibre props, another satellite receiver, that'll make it two satellites plus the actual receiver and some sundry stuff like more cable ties etc.

My son is getting me a Turnigy Action Camera for Xmas, so the flight camera is sorted. I notice that the latest version of this camera now has video out via the mini USB connection and has the same firmware as the SJ4000. I've already got the FPV camera, so I may need a receiver switch to swap between the two cameras.

Spent today getting as much done on the Alien as I can, plus I oiled the bearings on the F450 motors. One of the NTM 2830 800kv motors wasn't spinning up as quickly as the other motors and was stopping much quicker. I pulled that one motor apart and the top bearing was quite rusty, so I gave it a good clean and connected it to my Dremel and oiled it while spinning around 2000rpm. It's now spinning up as quickly as the other motors. The motor has been used on about 10 flights, so being rusty is a bit concerning, but the forums all suggest that the NTM motors bearings are cheap and nasty. Not going to worry about upgrading the bearings, when the time comes I'll just get better quality motors. But the NTM's have proved to be pretty good value otherwise.

[Mandrake]

http://www.lingeringlandscapes.com/Photos/Warrnambool.mp4

Warrnambool - Merri River mouth - sunset - was a bit windy .. Realised my gimbal settings prevented the camera from moving when I accelerated forward ... Fixed now ..

Lots of Gulls on the sand .. Steve

[Marschy]

http://www.lingeringlandscapes.com/Photos/Warrnambool.mp4

Warrnambool - Merri River mouth - sunset - was a bit windy .. Realised my gimbal settings prevented the camera from moving when I accelerated forward ... Fixed now ..

Lots of Gulls on the sand .. Steve

Any video much appreciated Steve, better than my efforts to date. What a stunning location.

[Mandrake]

We went to Hopkins Falls - got some really nice Photos - tried to get video but the wind was coming up river hitting the curved falls wall and spiralling up up and away --
I had no control over the Phantom until it got out of the updraught .. I really wanted the video but it didnt happn this time ...

[Spartan]

Spent today getting as much done on the Alien as I can, plus I oiled the bearings on the F450 motors. One of the NTM 2830 800kv motors wasn't spinning up as quickly as the other motors and was stopping much quicker. I pulled that one motor apart and the top bearing was quite rusty, so I gave it a good clean and connected it to my Dremel and oiled it while spinning around 2000rpm. It's now spinning up as quickly as the other motors. The motor has been used on about 10 flights, so being rusty is a bit concerning, but the forums all suggest that the NTM motors bearings are cheap and nasty. Not going to worry about upgrading the bearings, when the time comes I'll just get better quality motors. But the NTM's have proved to be pretty good value otherwise.

When I calibrated my ESCs the other day I noticed a couple of the NTM 2830 900Kv motors I have seemed a bit noisier than the  other one. I was just going to leave them until after I get this thing in the air and actually get to fly it, but now I'm thinking I might have to pull them apart and oil them while I'm waiting for the frame.

What oil do you use. Something thin like gun or sowing machine oil?

[CBRK]

http://www.lingeringlandscapes.com/Photos/Warrnambool.mp4

Warrnambool - Merri River mouth - sunset - was a bit windy .. Realised my gimbal settings prevented the camera from moving when I accelerated forward ... Fixed now ..

Lots of Gulls on the sand .. Steve

Hi Steve,

Nice location and good to see some video footage!  Just a question what are you using to dampen the vibrations?  There seems to be a fair bit coming through, is it coming through because the gimbal issue you mentioned?

I've got to get my decent cameras mounted, making me jealous!!

Chris

[Marschy]

When I calibrated my ESCs the other day I noticed a couple of the NTM 2830 900Kv motors I have seemed a bit noisier than the  other one. I was just going to leave them until after I get this thing in the air and actually get to fly it, but now I'm thinking I might have to pull them apart and oil them while I'm waiting for the frame.

What oil do you use. Something thin like gun or sowing machine oil?

Hello Spartan,

If you want to pull them apart, remove the grub screw at the top of the bell housing, then use a small nail to drive the shaft down and out of the housing. Then you have to pull really hard on the bell housing against the pull of the magnets to remove it from the stator.

Don't remove the circlip from the bottom of the shaft, otherwise you will need to replace them. They distort and are nearly impossible to make them grip satisfactorily when you put them back on. If you want to remove the bearings, here is a good video I found. I didn't do this, I just oiled the bearings once I had good access to them. Don't worry about getting oil on the windings, it does the motor no harm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrOGKyXP0Ak

I used Castrol Handy Oil (sewing machine oil). It's been sitting in the cupboard for about 10 years and I have no idea where I got it from.



Cheers, Mark

[CBRK]

Hello Spartan,

If you want to pull them apart, remove the grub screw at the top of the bell housing, then use a small nail to drive the shaft down and out of the housing. Then you have to pull really hard on the bell housing against the pull of the magnets to remove it from the stator.

Don't remove the circlip from the bottom of the shaft, otherwise you will need to replace them. They distort and are nearly impossible to make them grip satisfactorily when you put them back on. If you want to remove the bearings, here is a good video I found. I didn't do this, I just oiled the bearings once I had good access to them. Don't worry about getting oil on the windings, it does the motor no harm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrOGKyXP0Ak

I used Castrol Handy Oil (sewing machine oil). It's been sitting in the cupboard for about 10 years and I have no idea where I got it from.



Cheers, Mark

Hi Spartan,

I've use the singer light machine oil (so sewing machine oil). You can pick it up at most of the supermarkets or hardware shops.

I've had the same bottle since I was 16.  I put a few drops in the shaver every couple of months (properly not needed in a modern shaver but still).

Regards,

Chris

[Spartan]

I've got some gun oil in the shed so I'll either use that or grab some sowing machine oil - thanks for the advice.

I think I might wait until I mount the motors on the frame so at least it's easy enough to spin them up again - probably should have taken notice which motors were noisy shouldn't I  .

I got up at 5.30 this morning to go and meet a mate of mine who was taking his walkera and tricopter out for a flight. How easy is it to fly with GPS! I've never flown a multicopter in my life and I was just cruising around in altitude hold mode. He took it up so high that we couldn't really make it out - flick the return to home switch and a couple of minutes later it turns up and even pulls off a decent landing!

But that's the main reason I went for a KK board - to actually learn how to fly properly without all the electronics doing half the work for me.

For those of you with KK boards - how many of you always fly/flew with the Self level on and how many switch it off?

[Marschy]

I think I might wait until I mount the motors on the frame so at least it's easy enough to spin them up again - probably should have taken notice which motors were noisy shouldn't I  .

Much easier that way. Give each prop a really good flick, you'll soon see which motor has issues with the bearings.

For those of you with KK boards - how many of you always fly/flew with the Self level on and how many switch it off?

I used the chicken switch all the time, full acro had my quad in the dirt in 2 seconds.

[Marschy]

Found a seller on Aliexpress with 100% feedback and over 150 sales which is pretty remarkable.

They sell some Emax motors that I am considering for the Alien.

This motor is pretty versatile in that it can be powered from 3S-5S and the thrust/weight/current ratios are pretty good. It's a pretty good package including t-prop adapters and CW/CCW accessory packs all nicely packaged.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EMAX-MT-3506-650KV-Brushless-motor-for-Multirotors/1512065252.html

The other Emax is a 600kv beast with maximum thrust of 1780g but nearly 40g heavier.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EMAX-MT-3510-600KV-Brushless-motor-for-Multirotors/1512149723.html

I'm leaning towards these motors now in favour of the multistar motors from Hobbyking. I am going to run the specs of all the motors I am considering through the ecalc website to make sure I'm making a good decision.

[Marschy]

I bit the bullet and bought 4 of the Emax MT3506 650kv motors. They are apparently a clone of the T-Motor MT3506 650. Didn't bother with ecalc. I figure the versatility of the motor should make it worth while.