Author Topic: another bent dual cab.......  (Read 63046 times)

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Offline baggs71

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #125 on: May 31, 2016, 02:41:57 PM »
Well yes I do but I am not asking for any bragging rights, just that I am genuinely interested if there are any reported cases.

KB

I just searched a heap!
none so far at all!
I'm  big fan of the dmax...bloody good engine indeed!

Offline MDS69

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #126 on: May 31, 2016, 06:49:28 PM »
I knew a bloke in Newcastle that punched a hole in his slab in the garage changing a tyre. The vehicle went up on the jack and then the concrete started cracking and the jack went through the floor. The builder skimped a bit on the concrete by all accounts.

That is especially a concern now days with waffle pod slab construction

Offline Rumpig

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #127 on: May 31, 2016, 06:55:41 PM »
That is especially a concern now days with waffle pod slab construction
it's not uncommon to hear of waffle pods that have floated up in slabs...pretty sure a few people have been killed working on cars in their garages when jacks or stands go through the slab due to lack of thickness of concrete
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #128 on: June 07, 2016, 03:43:15 PM »
Came across this pic on Facebook. Yes it has airbags and according to the comments, yes it was overloaded, but....... Seriously Mitsubushi, WTF were you thinking welding across a chassis rail in such a high stress area, above that dirty great big hole?

Couldn't the tray mount have been welded to the side of the chassis?

(Yes I know the airbag has increased the stress on that particular area  :D )

With enough horse power, sheer ignorance and a total lack of respect for your vehicle, you'll get through....

Offline DaveR

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #129 on: June 07, 2016, 04:31:27 PM »
but....... Seriously Mitsubushi, WTF were you thinking

No thinking, celebrating, they've sold another car now.....
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KingBilly

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2016, 05:49:12 PM »
Read on the ozisuzu.com.au forum that a Dmax chassis is made from 4.8mm steel and an early model Gen 7 Hilux had a chassis of 3.6 mm.  1.2 mm is a big difference.  One third thicker than the Hilux.

Not bagging the Hiluxs, I have owned one or two.  Just posting as a comparison.

KB

Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #131 on: June 08, 2016, 08:13:43 AM »
Read on the ozisuzu.com.au forum that a Dmax chassis is made from 4.8mm steel and an early model Gen 7 Hilux had a chassis of 3.6 mm.  1.2 mm is a big difference.  One third thicker than the Hilux.

Not bagging the Hiluxs, I have owned one or two.  Just posting as a comparison.

KB

I had an early Hilux years ago that cracked the chassis, mostly due to cancer. Anyhow,  I replaced it with a mid 90's chassis. When I picked the chassis up from the wreckers, I managed to lift and drag that chassis up onto the ladder racks of lifted 4x4 ute on my own, that's how light they are.

Try that with an old Holden 1 Tonner ; D
With enough horse power, sheer ignorance and a total lack of respect for your vehicle, you'll get through....

Offline Joff

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #132 on: June 08, 2016, 09:06:23 AM »
Came across this pic on Facebook. Yes it has airbags and according to the comments, yes it was overloaded, but....... Seriously Mitsubushi, WTF were you thinking welding across a chassis rail in such a high stress area, above that dirty great big hole?

Couldn't the tray mount have been welded to the side of the chassis?

(Yes I know the airbag has increased the stress on that particular area  :D )

Maybe because the design load puts that weld in compression, not tension.
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #133 on: June 08, 2016, 09:32:10 AM »
Maybe because the design load puts that weld in compression, not tension.

Does it really need to be there? It's a tray mount.
With enough horse power, sheer ignorance and a total lack of respect for your vehicle, you'll get through....

Offline kylarama

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #134 on: June 08, 2016, 10:02:51 AM »


Try that with an old Holden 1 Tonner ; D

Yet they are renowned for cracking....
Although at the other end.



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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #135 on: June 08, 2016, 10:25:09 AM »

Yet they are renowned for cracking....
Although at the other end.



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And that stupid front tray mount that catches all dirt and water. Many of them snapped in half there.
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Offline Joff

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #136 on: June 08, 2016, 11:07:27 AM »
Does it really need to be there? It's a tray mount.

With respect, we, sitting here on our little forum, can't know what the engineers in one of the largest and oldest motor vehicle companies in the world are confronted with when designing these things. We don't know their brief, we don't know what they have been given as the design limits and we certainley don't know if the Australian outback traveler's penchant for bolting enormously heavy accessories onto these vehicles even gets a mention in their design meetings let alone our eagerness to force 50psi of air between the axle and the top bend of their chassis. And, in this day and age of platform vehicle building, we also don't know what other model constraints are put on the placement of chassis members.

To be blatantly frank I wouldn't build my outback tourer out of any of the current dual cab offerings for this very reason. The difference though is that I don't think these vehicles are inherently badly designed as some people seem to, or not fit for their design purpose , I simply don't think the design as it stands is up to what we want to do with it.

I mean let's be honest, what could be harder on a vehicle than to load it often beyond its GVM, load it is such a way that it has a good portion of the heavy stuff cantilevered beyond the wheel base, force suspension loads in places the designers never allowed for then drive it over some of the most hellish roads in the world?

Sure the old girls may have thicker steel in their chassis but as the previous owner of two old skool Hilux's if i had loaded it the way we do today the engines would not have had enough oomph to get out of my driveway. was that then a design fault?   
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Offline Andy_Q

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #137 on: June 08, 2016, 11:48:26 AM »
Maybe because the design load puts that weld in compression, not tension.

A transverse weld across a load bearing member will definitely reduce its fatigue life even if the attached bracket is carrying no load!  This is a well known engineering fact documented in many standards such as bs7608 if anyone wants some light reading.

High strength steels do not increase the fatigue life at a welded connection like this. So if it is a verifiable fact that one model has thicker chassis members then all else equal (which it is not) it will have better fatigue life.

I'm also not knocking the engineers that work for Toyota or whoever. They have cost and weight targets for the project that mean compromises must be made or we would all be driving unimogs. 

Andy


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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #138 on: June 08, 2016, 12:45:26 PM »
With respect, we, sitting here on our little forum, can't know what the engineers in one of the largest and oldest motor vehicle companies in the world are confronted with when designing these things. We don't know their brief, we don't know what they have been given as the design limits and we certainley don't know if the Australian outback traveler's penchant for bolting enormously heavy accessories onto these vehicles even gets a mention in their design meetings let alone our eagerness to force 50psi of air between the axle and the top bend of their chassis. And, in this day and age of platform vehicle building, we also don't know what other model constraints are put on the placement of chassis members.

To be blatantly frank I wouldn't build my outback tourer out of any of the current dual cab offerings for this very reason. The difference though is that I don't think these vehicles are inherently badly designed as some people seem to, or not fit for their design purpose , I simply don't think the design as it stands is up to what we want to do with it.

I mean let's be honest, what could be harder on a vehicle than to load it often beyond its GVM, load it is such a way that it has a good portion of the heavy stuff cantilevered beyond the wheel base, force suspension loads in places the designers never allowed for then drive it over some of the most hellish roads in the world?

Sure the old girls may have thicker steel in their chassis but as the previous owner of two old skool Hilux's if i had loaded it the way we do today the engines would not have had enough oomph to get out of my driveway. was that then a design fault?

So was that yes or no ???
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Offline Joff

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2016, 12:49:46 PM »
So was that yes or no ???

It's neither. it's a nicer way of saying 'How the hell would you know?'  :angel: :cheers:
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Offline DaveR

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2016, 04:35:58 PM »
With respect, we, sitting here on our little forum, can't know what the engineers in one of the largest and oldest motor vehicle companies in the world are confronted with when designing these things. We don't know their brief, we don't know what they have been given as the design limits and we certainley don't know if the Australian outback traveler's penchant for bolting enormously heavy accessories onto these vehicles even gets a mention in their design meetings let alone our eagerness to force 50psi of air between the axle and the top bend of their chassis. And, in this day and age of platform vehicle building, we also don't know what other model constraints are put on the placement of chassis members.

To be blatantly frank I wouldn't build my outback tourer out of any of the current dual cab offerings for this very reason. The difference though is that I don't think these vehicles are inherently badly designed as some people seem to, or not fit for their design purpose , I simply don't think the design as it stands is up to what we want to do with it.

I mean let's be honest, what could be harder on a vehicle than to load it often beyond its GVM, load it is such a way that it has a good portion of the heavy stuff cantilevered beyond the wheel base, force suspension loads in places the designers never allowed for then drive it over some of the most hellish roads in the world?

Sure the old girls may have thicker steel in their chassis but as the previous owner of two old skool Hilux's if i had loaded it the way we do today the engines would not have had enough oomph to get out of my driveway. was that then a design fault?

Well said.
Sadly there is a BUT
Many of these vehicles are bending when being used inside the design limits, well, as per the supply from the dealer, and not over loaded nor modified.
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Offline jr

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2016, 05:20:39 PM »
Look at exactly how they are loaded and many are being used outside limits
payload is to be spread evenly on axles, almost impossible in a dual cab unless most of your load is passengers

Offline Spada

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #142 on: February 14, 2017, 03:46:27 PM »
New development ?

Seems it's happening overseas as well.

https://mr4x4.com.au/uk-owners-want-recall-navara-snapped-chassis/
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Offline Metters

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #143 on: February 15, 2017, 10:33:33 AM »
I thought everybody in England knew salt was used on roads and washing it off regularly will prolong the life of the car.  This one looks like it has never seen a hose.

Just a comment on that cracked Mitsubishi chassis above.  My Hilux has the front and rear hangers for the rear springs welded across the flanges.  There is more welds across the flanges at the front of the car.  You will most likely find the same thing on all other makes.  A lot depends on the type of steel and what it is being used for.  In some applications welds have to be stress relieved after welding.  If that was necessary in this case then I am sure Mitsubishi engineers would have done it.

That crack was caused by the same old problem of overloading the rear end.  You can crack or bend any type of steel if you try hard enough. It is easy to do even if the total weight of the car is under its maximum. If you must overload the rear then you find it is sagging, it is easy enough to fix.  All you have to do is find either a  spring that fits between the far end of the car and the road or find an aftermarket suspension or air bags that are capable of picking up heavy items and moving them further forward.

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Re: another bent dual cab.......
« Reply #144 on: February 15, 2017, 11:34:41 AM »
Quote from: Metters
I thought everybody in England knew salt was used on roads and washing it off regularly will prolong the life of the car.  This one looks like it has never seen a hose.
Same as when I lived in South Dakota for a year.. There were F100's etc there with most of the tray and body rusted away still driving around... I tried explaining to the yanks with the laws here if you have a 20 cent piece size rust spot your car is ****ed! LMAO!
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