another bent dual cab.......

[Garry H]

just came across this advert on Gumtree in Adelaide

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wingfield/auto-body-parts/d40-navara-arb-bullbar-with-winch-side-steps-rear-bar-canopy/1029707168


guessing to much tow bar weight when towing (over corrugations?), probably north somewhere judging by the red dust
common problem with using the vehicles beyond their capacities, google shows some startling results in almost any brand of dual cabs over time

[Garry H]

.

[Garfish]

Reminds me of the FIL defender coming back from 7 emus. 

[speewa158]

& another 1 bites the dust 

[D4D]

There's a lot of money gone into that rig

[MDS69]

without reading the gumtree link I would say it also has airbags fitted in the rear.

[SambOz]

without reading the gumtree link I would say it also has airbags fitted in the rear.

I agree, the air bags cause a lot of problems if inflated to high, we stayed away from air bags and put an extra leaf on the hilux ute rear springs for that reason, still rides very nice and carries a good load with heavy c/t behind. Cost $350 btw, no idea what air bags are worth.

[Bird]

Perfect for the next "which Dual Cab should I buy" thread.

I wouldnt have one if it was given to me. They have gone too far in trying to lighten them and lost their strength - air bags or not...

[doc evil]

Biggest issue is the old age chassis design.

They all have the diff hump. The leaf spring is attached to either side of the "arch" and thus strength is found. Airbags (and the link type (coils) suspension) put strain upward at the mid point of the arch thus forcing the "arch" to act in a way it's not designed to do and therefore fail...................

Oh to add, my Patrol the rear chassis is laminated and gusseted to avoid such bending.........

 

[Dion]

Agree with Doc. 

Airbags on leaf spring equipped utes, and people loading vehicles up to close to GVM and heading offroad, probably cause 90% of these bananas.  You cannot add a new stress point on a chassis (airbag) and then load the tray and the towbar up to the limit (what's the bet that tray was full + roof box, it was probably over GVM as well) and drive off into the blue yonder.

Time for manufs to start publishing de-ratings for offroad use again.  You can tow 2.5t and 250kg ball weight on the blacktop, but I reckon it's closer to 100kg ball weight and 1.5t offroad for most vehicles these days.

[weeds]

I notice a bent one on another forum a few weeks ago.....he was on Fraser Island and yes it had air bags fitted

[heath74]

Meh... That'll buff out.




Not

[achjimmy]

Can't belive these are getting written off. It wouldn't take a day to have that back off straighten up the chassis and fish plate it. Be 8 x stronger than original

[DaveR]

I am having trouble with the theory of the Airbag being the sole course of the chassis bending.
Assuming the vehicles are loaded when the bent chassis happens, and the vehicle is driven off road some where, with out the Airbags, the Diff Bump Stop would come into contact with the chassis even do so quiet violently. Whereas, with the Airbag fitted, this would be dampened.
Yes, I agree, weight is being transferred to the chassis on a constant basis above the diff with the air bag, but the original design of the chassis surely is such that it can withstand sudden contact from the bump stop.
I'll be interested to know if there are chassis failures like this without the AirBags fitted.

In the early 90's, I was a mechanic for a fleet of vehicles in an underground mine, these things coped a pounding, and some were carrying a lot of extra weight all the time. They were all fitted with better springs / shocks, and nothing else.
Never had damaged chassis, but did have cabin mounts braking away from the chassis due to corregations.

[Garfish]

Can't belive these are getting written off. It wouldn't take a day to have that back off straighten up the chassis and fish plate it. Be 8 x stronger than original

Generally not covered by insurance or warranty, FIL had to foot bill for flat bed and repairs, as LR said not our issue, you modified it and then put stuff in it, insurance company said warranty issue,  in the end he fixed it with local engineering mob,  his split where LR joined the extension to the main chassis
No airbags on defender, LR latest was due to weight to far behind rear axle creating significant fulcrum effect

[doc evil]

I am having trouble with the theory of the Airbag being the sole course of the chassis bending.
Assuming the vehicles are loaded when the bent chassis happens, and the vehicle is driven off road some where, with out the Airbags, the Diff Bump Stop would come into contact with the chassis even do so quiet violently. Whereas, with the Airbag fitted, this would be dampened.
Yes, I agree, weight is being transferred to the chassis on a constant basis above the diff with the air bag, but the original design of the chassis surely is such that it can withstand sudden contact from the bump stop.
I'll be interested to know if there are chassis failures like this without the AirBags fitted.

In the early 90's, I was a mechanic for a fleet of vehicles in an underground mine, these things coped a pounding, and some were carrying a lot of extra weight all the time. They were all fitted with better springs / shocks, and nothing else.
Never had damaged chassis, but did have cabin mounts braking away from the chassis due to corregations.

due to weight to far behind rear axle creating significant fulcrum effect

BINGO...........

Dave,
Chassis in the early '90s were a poo poo load stronger, thicker, designed, fabricated etc than today's crop of wafer thin steel pretending to be a chassis........add in the fulcrum effect and you get...........snap........

[Bird]

In the early 90's, I was a mechanic for a fleet of vehicles in an underground mine, these things coped a pounding, and some were carrying a lot of extra weight all the time. They were all fitted with better springs / shocks, and nothing else.
Never had damaged chassis, but did have cabin mounts braking away from the chassis due to corregations.

I would go as far as to say cars were better built - stronger back then..

[achjimmy]

I don't all were. My dad worked for a chasis specialists in the fifties fixing amongst other things bent chassis. who remembers the Holden one tonners? They used to bend the other way at the cab, just used to get straightened and plated.

[edz]

I remember thinking along those lines Lost, in the 80's about vehicles built in the 70's .

[Bird]

I remember thinking along those lines Lost, in the 80's about vehicles built in the 70's .

too true... and as the years have gone on, cost cutting and material savin.

Remember.... I think it was called... something like  Steel?? back in the olden days cars were made of it.. you could lean on a guard and not write the car off. They even had steel bumpers!! shiney ones!

[Dion]

I would go as far as to say cars were better built - stronger back then..

I think you underestimate the quality of modern steel and the benefits of modern stress analysis techniques etc.

Back then there were heavily built 4WDs (e.g. 60 series) or nothing - and they only "lasted" because of overengineering.  "Medium duty" 4WDs - like virtually all current dual cab utes - didn't exist back then.

It comes back to buying a vehicle that is fit for purpose, and dual cab utes are not fit to be loaded to the gunnels and used offroad.  Used intelligently (i.e. loaded thoughtfully, and towing weights severely de-rated) they will do the job perfectly fine.

[Bird]

I think you underestimate the quality of modern steel and the benefits of modern stress analysis techniques etc

they arent working

[Joff]

Cars these days are across the board far better designed, far better built, from far better materials using far better techniques.

Find me a 4 cylinder dual cab ute from the 80s that would have been loaded with the amount crap they get loaded with these days, towing the sort of things we tow now and driven with the sort of abandon that we drive with now. Go find someone with a 2.4lt hilux like my old one and tell him to fit all the accessories, load up with all the must have gear, hook up the 1500kg camper and go flog it over sand dunes. He'd just laugh at you  Even if it didn't overheat and crack the head on the way out of town it'd have to be painfully tickled all the way over every dune.

The fact that these things bend is a direct result of just how good cars are these days - we don't need nor offer anywhere near the mechanical sympathy that we once did. We expect them to do so much more than we ever did and we don't notice how hard they work. These days they're so powerful, they offer comfort even in the rough stuff, the AC, noise deadening and nearly zero feedback power steering insulate us from the violence that is happening under our bums.

Cars weren't built better from better steel 20 or 30 years ago, we just treated them with more respect.

[noel_w]

Cars weren't built better from better steel 20 or 30 years ago, we just treated them with more respect.

Respectfully disagree. Maybe not better steel but definitely thinner.
My wife has a 2010 Subaru Forester which if you sneeze at any of the panels will result in a ding. Compare that to our old 1986 DL wagon which would take a hammer to achieve the same result. We had the DL for 20 years, I doubt the Forester will last 1/2 that at the current rate of problems we have had with it.


I would also like you to say that to my GQ. I doubt any current model car would cope with what it has been through and still be in the same condition in 20 years time. 

[Red Dog 4x4]

I would also like you to say that to my GQ. I doubt any current model car would cope with what it has been through and still be in the same condition in 20 years time.

Same here Noel