Camper Prices

[Swannie]

.

[Teabag]

I think some are missing my point so I will clarify. What I'm more about is physical value, not emotional value or who can or can't afford. So, is there $50k physical value in design, engineering, luxuries etc in that value? Same goes for any soft floor camper at $20k value, under the same criteria as above? I personally don't but this doesn't make it wrong with anyone who does. There are many factors that come into account when purchasing a camper that do out weight my question, that's a given......it interesting the differing views.....:-)

[chisel]

$50k can earn you $2500 per year in the bank.  Probably more invested in shares or similar.
Depreciation might be anything but lets say $2500 (5%) per year initially.  So $5000/yr at a guess (yes I know some campers don't depreciate that fast but others are worse I'm sure).
Then there's rego and insurance - maybe $600/yr.  Probably some maintenance/service costs and other ownership costs but ignore those for now.

So you're spending $5600/yr for owning the trailer.  If you're a family man with 2 school age children and a salary type job giving you 20 days leave a year, and a family that doesn't want to camp for EVERY holiday, then you might expect to spend maybe 15 nights in it per year (20 if you're lucky).
So each night is costing you $373 :-)

Food for thought.

I'm considering going back to tents because of this - and I only own a $14k soft floor.  But since the family prefer the trailer then I think it is worth persevering with for now.

Obviously the equation is different if you spend a lot more nights in your camper.

(Sorry if not quite the discussion the OP was after.)

[Jeepers Creepers]

No way i could justify big $$$$$ for a CT.

We bought second hand Oz made CT for $6,000 and spent $2,000 to make it the way we wanted. (gas hotwater etc, etc)

Now, having said that, we did spent (4 years ago) $95,000 for a boat and then $14,500 for Seapen to keep it in.

Yeah, i'm still trying to work it out too....

[D4D]

I've been doing comparisons of the soft floor market and there are some interesting price differences between some manufacturers for what is essentially the same type and quality of camper. I am happy to pay for quality but don't want to pay more than I have to.

[staghornflat]

But what peeves me a bit is the bloke belittling the bloke for spending up big on either a 4wd or a camper ??
If you can't afford something, either admire the bloke for having the money ( and the nice new camper ), or find a way to do the same ( but don't feel bad about it !!

Totally agree, If you can afford it and that what you want to spend you hard earned on, why not. 

[Teabag]

Totally agree, If you can afford it and that what you want to spend you hard earned on, why not. 

Agree but that's not the objective nor idea of this post.

[Barry G]

I think some are missing my point so I will clarify. What I'm more about is physical value, not emotional value or who can or can't afford. So, is there $50k physical value in design, engineering, luxuries etc in that value? Same goes for any soft floor camper at $20k value, under the same criteria as above? I personally don't but this doesn't make it wrong with anyone who does. There are many factors that come into account when purchasing a camper that do out weight my question, that's a given......it interesting the differing views.....:-)

That was the point I was attempting to respond to, I don't believe that there is the 'physical value' in the cost of many new CTs when relatively modern ones with similar levels of design, features and luxuries can be had far cheaper second hand.
This goes for all types, hard floor / soft floor / pop tops.
Not intended to belittle those who wish to buy new off the shelf at top $, just the fact that I don't see the value in doing it that way.

[02-SR5]

About five years ago we were looking at a quality camper. There weren't many imports around then. But a lot of manufactures were using a standard box trailer with a tent on top back then.

I discovered Arrow Campers. They were built in SA (tent and trailer), but the the I found, the trailer was designed as a camper trailer, and built like a brick out house.

The bare bones camper cost us $5999 on the road. It was Aussie canvas tent with front annex. No kitchen, tool box. Just the tent on a trailer, both top quality.

I had great plans for it, but the bills got away from us and we had to sell it.

We paid $8000 for a GIC. Sold that.

Last Christmas, we paid $7000 for a lifestyle explorer.

We would love a Jayco Hawk off road model, but we don't have the money.

Do I see the value in 50k for a camper, not really, but when I do see people with one, I wish I was one of them. I think it all comes down to what comforts people want.

My dad paid 90k for a Bushtracker caravan, it only seated two people at the dinning table and a poorly designed double bed.

[cm4x4nut]

Teabag has asked a question about the 'value' in campers, not if you can justify it to yourself or others or how much money you would actually spend on a camper. I have a KK that is probably the one that he has spoken about in the first post. Here is my thoughts.

I do not believe that the camper is worth $54k, however, the camper is what I want..........and the company that makes them is charging $54k.
I also have a 200......and like the camper, I do not think they a worth the money they are charging for them, however, again, it is what I want and the company that makes them is charging that amount.......so I have to suck it up and pay it if that is what I want.

A similar line could be done with almost everything on the market.....are Nike joggers with the coin, are Bose sound systems worth the coin.........the list goes on.

I do love my single malt scotch though.............. 

[schmik]

My thinking is along the same as others.... you can get a damn fine car for 50K.  Potentially it will outlast the camper.

IMO there are too many manufacturers doing small numbers.

Let's say 10 or 20 of them got togther and had an aus factory building their trailers.... and another building tents.
They would save a heap of money and camper trailers would be cheaper.

Sure we would have a little less choice but it would be worth it.

I spent $5600 on a 2nd hand aus camper and another $2k on mods.  Worth it for me. Have done numerous 2 week trips, two 4 week trips and one 10 week trip. All of that in 2.5 years. No wonder i have no leave left
It has changed mine (and my kids lives).

[Bird]

So, is there $50k physical value in design, engineering, luxuries etc in that value?

Going on the base question - is there $50k of physical value? No. its not that much different to $10-20k trailers. But IM a computer nerd, not an engineer/trailer builder... Im usually shocked with what somethings cost... like Trackmaster offroad vans etc....

Many things your paying for a name more than engineering etc.

I do not believe that the camper is worth $54k, however, the camper is what I want... and the company that makes them is charging $54k.

I also have a 200......and like the camper, I do not think they a worth the money they are charging for them, however, again, it is what I want and the company that makes them is charging that amount.. so I have to suck it up and pay it if that is what I want.

IMWO, cause people "suck it up" and pay up the ringhole prices for things, is why the prices stay high.
If they stopped selling, they would go "oh ****"

Look at some of the euro cars now that there is a new importer - day 1 - drop the prices $10,000. They are happier with a smaller margin.
Too bad for those with <4mth old ones... their value is nothing now! LOL

[kylarama]

Camper trailers don't have the luxury of fully automated production lines to be able to spit out a camper every 5 minutes.
Everything is hand built and alot are made customized to suit the buyers needs. 
One of the biggest cost in any business is labour.
How many man hours does it take to build a KK start to finish?  Couple of 100?? add to that overheads, sales staff, marketing, R&D, machinery, tools, materials and a profit margin to justify running your own business.  It adds up! 

[Mrs smith]

It is interesting, if you were to compare the cheapest components that actually make up a CT with the dearest Eg: cheapest Chinese axle with the dearest well reputed brand name item, it is very hard to justify the huge extra cost associated with a premium brand CT. 

[Marschy]

I'm not going to knock anyone's decision to buy a $40k camper, that's up to the individual  to decide if they can afford or justify their need for such a camper.

But what I have noticed is that there seems to be more second hand Aussie made campers for sale in the classified section on myswag than campers at the budget end of the scale, particularly imports.

I have one of the latter, it's not financed and apart from running costs it doesn't owe me a cent.

I don't do a great deal of camping, but I try to get out there most long weekends or I make my own long weekend. I'm in no hurry to upgrade or sell my camper as I'm getting good use out of it and my family love the lifestyle it offers us.

I often see Aussie made campers for sale for over $20k and much more that are only a couple of years old and I ask myself has the seller over-capitalised and can now not afford to go camping. The reason I ask myself this is because quite often the seller makes the point that it's not getting used.

Let's face it, having $40k sitting in the driveway doing nothing is harder to swallow than $5k doing the same thing when money is tight.

[gronk]

To answer the original post ( after reading it again ).....I don't think the value of a camper has really changed in the last 10 yrs ....

Sure, prices have increased, but so has everything else, so in real terms , the prices haven't changed much !!

Now, that doesn't say they were good value 10 yrs ago either.....but only the individual can determine if a camper is good value....whether its $10,000 or $90,000   !!!!

[FalcOn]

I know the point is not emotional but the value or real cost, but unfortunately they can't always be separated. Does an E series Merc cost $100k more than a Commodore, no but the brand has an image and a way of making you feel. If you don't feel it, you wont see the value and wonder why anyone can see it.  Why does a 40 year old GT Falcon sell for more than a new one - aspirational value...

Not suggesting any of you blokes (and girls!) buy into "brand cache" for your trailers but the reality is we have all bought them for the way we feel about them. Some its value, some its quality, some its ease and no fuss and some just want to get on the road for the smallest amount of money possible. No one is right or wrong and no one has been ripped off. Some see no value in a cheap trailer, and some see no value in an expensive trailer. I don't hear anyone cross shopping a KK with a GIC, if your in the market for one you won't see the value in the other.

KK have been clever, they have built a reputation of being king of the off road and making a value statement based on it. Plenty are buying them and feeling they have great value.

So I don't think that price is always a sum of its parts but rather how it comes together and appeals to the consumer. I understand that the top end of the market has seen some considerable growth in recent years so the market isn't always saying cheaper is better.

So the real question is not what they cost, but what is the value you see in them...

[nab]

I know the point is not emotional but the value or real cost, but unfortunately they can't always be separated. Does an E series Merc cost $100k more than a Commodore, no but the brand has an image and a way of making you feel. If you don't feel it, you wont see the value and wonder why anyone can see it.  Why does a 40 year old GT Falcon sell for more than a new one - aspirational value...

Not suggesting any of you blokes (and girls!) buy into "brand cache" for your trailers but the reality is we have all bought them for the way we feel about them. Some its value, some its quality, some its ease and no fuss and some just want to get on the road for the smallest amount of money possible. No one is right or wrong and no one has been ripped off. Some see no value in a cheap trailer, and some see no value in an expensive trailer. I don't hear anyone cross shopping a KK with a GIC, if your in the market for one you won't see the value in the other.

KK have been clever, they have built a reputation of being king of the off road and making a value statement based on it. Plenty are buying them and feeling they have great value.

So I don't think that price is always a sum of its parts but rather how it comes together and appeals to the consumer. I understand that the top end of the market has seen some considerable growth in recent years so the market isn't always saying cheaper is better.

So the real question is not what they cost, but what is the value you see in them...

Awesome reply, put thoughts into words that I reckon sums it up.

[HEM19X]

IMHO, the value issue burns down to 3 things.

1. [and most important] HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE!!
2. refer point 1
3 refer points 1 & 2.

Seriously, the question of value runs through everything - how can you justify spending $120k on a Kedron van when you can have a $5k 2nd hand Viscount? As has been stated earlier "Value equals the price that people are willing to pay for a product". 

[duggie]

I bought my Trackabout 4x4 Delux over five years ago for $12,500, JT had reduced it from $14,500 as it was a camper that had been used at a local field day. there were a few extras thrown in that were not on a base standard model. So with the extras and reduced price it was good value. I had done my research and had decided that the Trackabout was the camp trailer of my choice.

Like my home I built nearly 30 years ago, the Trackabout was intended to be a keeper and still is a keeper. Deprecation on resale has and never will be a thought for me as I intend to have my Trackabout for many more years to come.

I chose the Trackabout for it,s build quality and for the quality of materials used in the build. Keeping in mind that this camper will be with me for many years ahead, I believe that I got value for money spent.

In summery of my statement, I believe that no matter of the cost if one keeps what one has bought , rather then having for a short time and on sells, then the value of the purchase is not questionable. 

cheers duggie

[Beachman]

I have to agree with Teabag as I believe camping/exploring the great outdoor is becoming more or more  popular. Because of this everyone wants to keep up with the ‘latest gadgets/toys’ and I believe it’s these gadgets/accessorises which are putting the prices up.

Example 20/25 years ago it was a basic trailer/tent set up. The kitchen was a gas stove you put up separately, washing up was done in a bucket. Light was in the form of a gas or kero lamps.  Drinks and food were kept cold in eskies.

These days are camper trailers come with flash independent suspension, wide range of hitches, alloy mags, kitchen built into the tailgate with running water, LED lighting with batteries and solar panels, stairways which make getting into bed easier and fridges to keep our drinks cold. Because our trailers are getting heavier, we are also buying more powerful 4WD’s to tow them.

Yes it does make life easier when away, but it also means more preparation and cleaning after the trip. But my last 2 trips have been up the beach for 2 nights with just myself and my 2 kids as my wife didn’t want to come. Have to say I loved it as I only took a tent, camp stretches, single gas cooker, I fluro light and the fridge stayed in the car. It only took 10 minutes to put up and pull down camp and bugger all time to clean and pack the gear away once we got home. The simplicity really made for an enjoyable trip.   

[Bunyip]

We bought a KK recently as is the physical value worth it? I am not sure about that.

I love the fact that everything that has gone wrong on the trailer has been my fault not the manufacturers.
I love the fact that I can call my dealer at 6:30am on Boxing Day and get a problem resolved over the phone.
I love the fact that I take my bent jockey wheel back (yeah that was my fault as well) and they fixed it under warranty without asking any questions.
I love the fact that I don't have to think about where I take my KK (from a durability point of view) as I have all confidence that it will outlast my 100 Series Cruiser.
I love the fact that it is made in Australia using Australian made parts (I realise not all parts are Australian made) which supports Australian jobs and the Australian economy.

I am not mechanically minded (just ask LB) so I was delighted to pay the premium for an Australian Built camper that I can rely on. I was just lucky that at the time we purchased it we could afford such things.

Bunyip

[MDS69]

I bought my Trackabout 4x4 Delux over five years ago for $12,500, JT had reduced it from $14,500 as it was a camper that had been used at a local field day. there were a few extras thrown in that were not on a base standard model. So with the extras and reduced price it was good value. I had done my research and had decided that the Trackabout was the camp trailer of my choice.

Like my home I built nearly 30 years ago, the Trackabout was intended to be a keeper and still is a keeper. Deprecation on resale has and never will be a thought for me as I intend to have my Trackabout for many more years to come.

I chose the Trackabout for it,s build quality and for the quality of materials used in the build. Keeping in mind that this camper will be with me for many years ahead, I believe that I got value for money spent.

In summery of my statement, I believe that no matter of the cost if one keeps what one has bought , rather then having for a short time and on sells, then the value of the purchase is not questionable. 

cheers duggie

duggie I would like to pose a question to you but you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.
Do you believe your purchase was good value for what you paid in dollar terms or good value against what else was available from the opposition.

Same question of everyone else really
Are certain CT manufacturers providing good value for dollars spent on what you receive verse their material and component costs or is the value in what you get compared to what another manufacturer provides for the same money which may or may not still be over priced.

For the record I have an $8k Aussie trailer and Chinese tent (GIC) that has followed us on some great adventures. It was a foot in the door to the CT experience and ownership. If I could afford a CUB I would be there in a flash.

[KingBilly]

Are certain CT manufacturers providing good value for dollars spent on what you receive verse their material and component costs or is the value in what you get compared to what another manufacturer provides for the same money which may or may not still be over priced.

Great question.  As I said in my earlier reply, I find it hard to get my head around the value of the dollars spent against the material and component cost (and yes I know there is also a labour cost).  However I am happy with the cost of my CT when compared to other manufacturers.  Just wish I was comparing with a lower general cost 

KB

[duggie]

duggie I would like to pose a question to you but you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.
Do you believe your purchase was good value for what you paid in dollar terms or good value against what else was available from the opposition.

Same question of everyone else really
Are certain CT manufacturers providing good value for dollars spent on what you receive verse their material and component costs or is the value in what you get compared to what another manufacturer provides for the same money which may or may not still be over priced.

Both, as stated I did do my research and had decided that the Trackabout was best for my needs/wants and with the reduced price and added extras it even became a better deal.

Would I buy A Trackabout now 5 years down the track, probabley not. My wants and needs have not changed but there other brands out there now that would fit the requirements that I was looking for at a greatly reduced outlay of my hard earned dollars. I am not taking anything away from the new Trackabout campers, they in my opinion are still one of the best soft floor campers on the market.

cheers duggie