Author Topic: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?  (Read 18122 times)

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Offline dav

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Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2013, 09:45:31 AM »
I have camped and 4x4 in state forest around Lithgow area and have seen the odd hunter or two. It  has not worried me one bit. Just remove the reindeer antlers off the car and don't wear Camo gear.

Offline Pauly

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2013, 09:47:51 AM »
Im all for legal hunting pretty much anywhere. What all the anti hunting people forget to tell you is its been legal in State forrests for years with very few if any innocent parties injured.

I think these are the rules I read somewhere.

Before a legal gun owner can hunt in a forest they have to get permits and then they can only hunt in designated or sign posted areas. Hunters must have a bright orange piece of clothing on and must follow all the heavily regulated rules. Legal hunters can only shoot certain animals from a list of pest species, No they cant shoot roos and koala,s like some might have you believe.

Illegal hunters can shoot anywhere they like at anything they like dressed in anything they like as drunk or drugged as they like and nobody does anything.

Responsible Legal hunters despise illegal hunters so will be very quick to report any illegal or suspect activity they see. Your family will actually be safer with more legal hunters around you.



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Offline GanG

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2013, 09:50:48 AM »
A Highly emotive issue and guaranteed to polarise people, the PSA in NSW is doing an excellent job at feeding the hysteria with talk of flack jackets etc. I will make one post on this subject as it is somewhat off topic, and I will also declare my stake in this as recent former President/current Vice Pres of a hunting club in Victoria.

In Victoria there has been open access to public land hunting "forever", and deer hunting in the alpine nation park since before it was national park. The safety record is very good. There are 22000 game permits issued annually in Vic for deer hunting, and there has been 3 fatalities in the last 55 years, 2 of those three were related party's hunting in proximity. Nobody has been shot on a road/in a car or campsite by a legal hunter ever.

Compared to recreational fishing, where last time I looked at the stats there multiple people dying yearly, due to being swept off the rocks, boating accidents and other misadventures. I do not belittle any death, and do not offer that to trivialize, merely  to illustrate that this issue is getting far more media attention than it deserves in terms of the risk attached.

Legal hunting does reduce illegal activity, rogues do what they do under the cover of anonymity and out of sight. Those who do the right thing object to being tarred with the same brush as the poachers and rogues, and secondly, we jump through the hoops and compliance and resent being undercut by poachers etc, so issues are reported and people and dobbed in for doing the wrong thing.

Much of the time hunters are in the bush is the time when nobody else wants to be, the peak deer hunting season runs May through to November, most weekends the only other campers I see are deer hunters in the mountains as it too cold for mum and dad and kids.

Hunting is done away from roads and tracks, as generally game animals are most likely found where people are not, hunters go bush, they do not shoot from roads etc (which is already illegal)

the NSW proposal is 10% of NP being open, not all so represents a drop in the ocean.

Lastly its public land, we all own it, not the NPWS, not the politicians, not the bushwalkers/birdwatchers, not the NPA - all of us, so why should a legal healthy and proven safe passtime not be allowed, its no different to locking campers and 4wd out of areas.

The media love to portray the redneck yobbo hunters, and the "large calibre semi automatic assault sniper rifles" the reality is we are all just normal people who like to source our own meat, spend time getting close to nature, and enjoy the outdoors, we value the animals and the access, and actively control ferals like foxes/dogs/feral cats etc. There is always the odd F%$^ wit in the crowd as with any activity, but they are thankfully rare.

If you are up my way, drop in and I will make you some Venison and Guiness casserole  :)
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Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2013, 05:49:23 PM »
G'day deldridg. You don't think the copper might have been justifying the operation? "Yeah mate, we've caught heaps. It's been TOTALLY worth it....". You also claim to not be a total wowser, but i dunno whether you noticed the website says NO hunting, not safe hunting, or more careful hunting, or less unneccessary hunting.
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Offline Jason B

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2013, 06:01:53 PM »
The OP hasn't responded or commented again since raising he issue  ???

Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2013, 06:10:44 PM »
Yeah, I noticed that, but it was only posted around 10 a.m. yesterday. We better give him a chance, eh?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:29:26 PM by Boxhead 71 »
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Offline BigJules

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Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2013, 06:16:10 PM »
Why would the OP raise their head again when the sentiment has been totally agin them?

I'm not entirely happy with the proposal, nor the way the political agreement was reached.
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Offline TheOtherLeft

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2013, 06:18:24 PM »
Maybe the OP was looking for support...

Offline BigJules

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Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2013, 06:24:30 PM »
I don't think there is an issue with the contrary views posted. I am surprised that no one else has voiced an objection, but then maybe no one else has any.

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Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2013, 06:30:05 PM »
I wonder if every time he gets breath tested and asks the copper how many DUI's they've caught, he feels politically motivated to go to a anti-drink driving rally?...
'Cause as we ALL know, heaps and heaps more people die every year from drink driving than firearm accidents.......
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2013, 06:37:18 PM »
The OP is entiltled to his opinion, and as I posted even as a person who has licensed firearms I would perfer it be handled by pro's.  The thing I object to is that the "against" argument will get bought into by the Vegans, anti gun coalition, Bambi brigade etc who don't want to see any hunting cause it kills furry things, they call themselves animal conservationist, they don't want the camels culled, foxes killed etc but it is not ecologically substainable in Australia.

To own firearms today, you are ostracized and made to feel like your a pshyopathic red neck!



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Offline GanG

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2013, 07:10:26 PM »
I know I said one post but it got the better of me :laugh:

achjimmy I get the sentiment behind your post but what defines a professional hunter?

Over a year i would spend something in the vicinity of 10 - 20 hours a week carrying a firearm for recreational reasons, and I would discharge in excess of 500 - 1000 rounds a year, more than most soldiers, and definitely more than most police officers. I would wager I am a better shot and far more familiar with the tools than most coppers I know.

Many of the guys I hunt with are similar, hunting and shooting is part of our lives at an intimate level...how do you draw the line between pro and recreation. The professionals concept is another construct of the anti's, designed to make it seem like most hunters are unsafe when the reality is quite the opposite.
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Offline macca

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2013, 07:32:05 PM »
Totally agree with JasonB and GanG,
I would think that most licensed shooters would fully understand what they have to lose these days by not being legal at all times, I know I do.
And as far as the road block goes its a win/win isn't it, both sides of the argument gain by it, don't they and if your that passionate about it it either way  then the delay is worth it ?

macca
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 07:33:55 PM by macca »

Offline Jason B

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2013, 07:36:17 PM »
I actually think the discussion on here has been quite sensible and balanced. I agree most have a different opinion to the OP however these views have been expressed respectfully. I have stated that I am not a great fan of the proposal but, I have seen and herd some benefits talking to local police and games council rangers.

The NPWS are dead against it but then again they get paid to shoot in parks.

Hopefully which ever way it goes it gets there for real reasons not just politics.

Jas

Offline Jason B

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 07:39:42 PM »
Totally agree with JasonB and GanG,
I would think that most licensed shooters would fully understand what they have to lose these days by not being legal at all times, I know I do.
And as far as the road block goes its a win/win isn't it, both sides of the argument gain by it, don't they and if your that passionate about it it either way  then the delay is worth it ?

macca

Macca the OPP at Lithgow is a win win I believe also, because no self respecting legal hunter would be transporting weapons inappropriately . Also with these things if you are doing the right thing and following the rules you have nothing to fear.

Jas

Offline LC

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 08:00:09 PM »
The thing I object to is that the "against" argument will get bought into by the Vegans, anti gun coalition, Bambi brigade etc


I agree with this completely. These groups will get the air time as they sensationalise the augment and that is the sort of thing the media likes. I know lots of people that are licensed to carry firearms and they are all sensible people. One of them has been even been involved in culling deer in residential areas around southern Sydney and it is all very carefully controlled. Still doesn't make me feel comfortable with it though.

My objection to the shooting in national parks is based purely on the fact that my backyard literally borders a national park and the idea of a stray bullet hitting my house or worse is something I don't want to even entertain. If there are people in there shooting illegally and I am made aware of it I will be the first to ring the police.
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Offline GanG

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 08:10:56 PM »
Agree with the comments re respectful debate, it is an important issue and it does merit serious discussion.

Quote from: Lcandlc
My objection to the shooting in national parks is based purely on the fact that my backyard literally borders a national park and the idea of a stray bullet hitting my house or worse is something I don't want to even entertain. If there are people in there shooting illegally and I am made aware of it I will be the first to ring the police.
Calling the cops is exactly what any hunter would ask of you.....poachers are rogues and are breaking the law, they ought be prosecuted.

Again I hark back to the Vic experience, but houses being shot etc just doesn't happen........and under the NSW model, the set up is very prescriptive, hunters have to book in to a forest, they are given maps stating where they can hunt, and issues like proximity to housing etc is factored in to the exclusion zones.

I can understand the anxiety, but the safety checks and balances are very stringent..............this arguement is 90% political with a few using it as a platform to grandstand, at grass roots the impact of hunting in NP is going to be miniscule for Joe Citizen and NPWS alike, most wont even know it is happening.

Looks like I suck at shutting up :laugh: its just such a significant topic for me at a personal level, and the half truths and emotive reporting of the issues really irks me. I do get the anxiety, but the checks and balances are pretty robust, if folks get time to investigate them properly.
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Offline briann532

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2013, 08:26:35 PM »
I would suggest the OP has concerns over the "illegal" hunters..........

One cannot blame him for having concerns over people who blatantly ignore the laws, running around with guns near campers.
You only have to have a look at the number of generator threads and noisy neighbour threads to realise how ignorant some people are.
Take one of these numpties who has no care for others, give them a firearm with no regard for safety law or license and its a recipe for disaster.

I see both sides of the argument, but no one can justify or accept the "illegal" use of firearms.
I certainly don't get the feeling the OP has copped out.
It appears his valid concern for what might happen when these things get out of hand. That's why he mentioned the police inspections.

I am a proficient firearm user. I grew up with them as a necessity. I now have no need for one, so I don't have one.
BUT I certainly wouldn't want someone using one in the vicinity of my family.

Hunter or not, anti or pro gun, I can't believe anyone would validly accept these morons running around our parks with a firearm.

I guess the political agendas outweigh the concerns. At least until one of the pollies family members get shot..................... :police:
I also refuse to believe the lobbyists who wanted guns in the parks had any bad intentions.
Its a sport that they want to enjoy. I accept there are bound to be some nutcases who wont follow the rules, but you get that in everything.
Check out the drink driving threads, the hoon threads, the speeding threads, etc etc.
There is always some idiot ruining it for everyone else.

Perhaps a national "beat an idiot" day would help...............(just joking - don't shoot me)

Rant rant rant etc etc.
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Offline Jason B

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2013, 09:01:33 PM »
You only have to have a look at the number of generator threads and noisy neighbour threads to realise how ignorant some people are.

Or how intolerant people are  >:D


Hunter or not, anti or pro gun, I can't believe anyone would validly accept these morons running around our parks with a firearm.

They are now, illegal hunting is rife in NP's. The legal hunters should be as you have claimed to be proficient and responsible...........


Brian

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Offline briann532

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2013, 09:25:53 PM »
Jas

Agreed, and I think that's what most people are concerned about......

And in regards to the "intolerance"............................. tolerance only stretches so far, as most threads as this site clearly show.
That is off topic though so I'll apologise, but the statement was made in context originally.

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Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 10:24:54 PM »
Hey briann, i thought it was fairly obvious the OP had concerns....enough to start a thread on it, even.... The whole point is that there are already people shooting in nat. parks. But by allowing licenced hunters in, these illegal hunters should gradually be discouraged from doing so, as the licenced hunters will be reporting any illegal activity so as not to jeopardise there pasttime.

The thing I object to is that the "against" argument will get bought into by the Vegans, anti gun coalition, Bambi brigade etc who don't want to see any hunting.

And a lot of these "anti-everything" types of people are the sort that support the legalising of drugs.....  ??? ???

I don't get it....
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Offline deldridg

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2013, 06:39:29 AM »
Im all for legal hunting pretty much anywhere. What all the anti hunting people forget to tell you is its been legal in State forrests for years with very few if any innocent parties injured.

I think these are the rules I read somewhere.

Before a legal gun owner can hunt in a forest they have to get permits and then they can only hunt in designated or sign posted areas. Hunters must have a bright orange piece of clothing on and must follow all the heavily regulated rules. Legal hunters can only shoot certain animals from a list of pest species, No they cant shoot roos and koala,s like some might have you believe.

Illegal hunters can shoot anywhere they like at anything they like dressed in anything they like as drunk or drugged as they like and nobody does anything.

Responsible Legal hunters despise illegal hunters so will be very quick to report any illegal or suspect activity they see. Your family will actually be safer with more legal hunters around you.

I get your logic but somehow I'm reminded of Charlton Heston's famous line after Columbine where he said that the massacre wouldn't have happened if every child was carrying a gun. My general concern is not just about illegal/legal hunting, it's more about the general proliferation and acceptance of guns into our culture (which is off-topic of course). Never any easy answers to these issues sadly.
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2013, 07:18:48 AM »
I get your logic but somehow I'm reminded of Charlton Heston's famous line after Columbine where he said that the massacre wouldn't have happened if every child was carrying a gun. My general concern is not just about illegal/legal hunting, it's more about the general proliferation and acceptance of guns into our culture (which is off-topic of course). Never any easy answers to these issues sadly.

And hence your true colours are shown, so put up an argument about gun control and march with the Anti gun coalition but don't go hiding behind another agenda, and making incorrect assumptions about hunting in NP. Again I have no issues with people who have an argument against firearms, it's there right do so.

Chartlon Heston was a nutter but he was also rigth another armed defender could have prevented the massacre, ( not child thats ridulous) same as an armed person could have prevented Port Arthur, what also could have prevented Port Arthur was if the police had acted on the advise of a gun store owner who reported Martin Bryrant for trying to obtain an firearm and who was reported to be in an "agitated" state!  After port Arthur beside the squilions spent acquiring guns we were promised reform on mental health but didn't get that, hence the phsyopathic loons are still out there !

Remember the biggest massacre by a  pshyopath  in the US was not committed by a gun but by a guy with a tip truck, fertilizer & fuel !!


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Offline dazzler

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2013, 07:26:31 AM »
I think shooting is very similar to religion.

If you dont believe or understand it you probably never will so the discussion is instantly coloured by your belief and therefore your response.   :cheers:
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Offline GanG

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Re: Anyone else opposed to hunting in our parks (NSW)?
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2013, 07:34:43 AM »
I think shooting is very similar to religion.

If you dont believe or understand it you probably never will so the discussion is instantly coloured by your belief and therefore your response.   :cheers:
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