NSW Fires

[Pottsy]

But isnt that what we want our elected govt and opposition to do.  Engage in bi partisan projects that actually help Australian citizens.    Sorry mate...there is too much money and behind the closed doors of parliament that means the country will always play second fiddle to the self interests of egomaniacs both in govt and business..  Spose we can dream though!

 

You can change it, you could always run for politics and change the world, maybe start locally and work your way up. Ride the gravy train. 

[alnjan]

Grandstanding...I dont think so...seems they knew what was going to happen and had major concerns...All this 8 months before the fires.....Maybe if someone had listened less lives and property would have been lost.  I dare say these people are more experienced than 99.9% on the forum. I think their comments are pretty well what everyone is talking about now. Anyone who thinks climate change hasnt contributed to the fire s are out of step with the majority of people.  Even morrisson,s govt has backtracked and admitted it is real!!

 Former fire chiefs warn Australia unprepared for escalating climate threat
This article is more than 8 months old

If these Former Fire Chiefs knew so much, the big question is, what did they do about it when they were Fire Chiefs?  Obviously nothing to mitigate or prevent the situation.  They can cry and blame lack of Government action, but just what did they do as Fire Chiefs.  Their inaction has aided and assisted in the creation of the current Bushfires.  They are now not talking about Bushfires but Climate Change.  Big Difference.   

[Craig Tomkinson]

Spot on Achjimmy, its a lot to do with were they live, and the control measures around there houses and farm you do,, years ago there was a bad fire season coming, dad ploughed the paddocks around the house to bear dirt, Craig

[tryagain]

But isnt that what we want our elected govt and opposition to do.  Engage in bi partisan projects that actually help Australian citizens.    Sorry mate...there is too much money and behind the closed doors of parliament that means the country will always play second fiddle to the self interests of egomaniacs both in govt and business.

Yes, that's what we want, I find it hard to believe that's what the fire 20 odd ex fire chiefs (largely at the political appointment level) actually want. That's why I think the comment was good, take away the political/grandstanding opportunities from what they are proposing and we then get to see how motivated they still are.

To my cursory view, it looks like some ex fire chiefs advocating for federal funding for something that has traditionally been the realm of the states. Then if federal funds are offered, I guess we would then need some "experts" to advise on how to best use them, maybe say a panel made up of ex fire chiefs for example, all would then need to be very handsomely rewarded for their advisory capacity.

[Bigfish]

If these Former Fire Chiefs knew so much, the big question is, what did they do about it when they were Fire Chiefs?  Obviously nothing to mitigate or prevent the situation.  They can cry and blame lack of Government action, but just what did they do as Fire Chiefs.  Their inaction has aided and assisted in the creation of the current Bushfires.  They are now not talking about Bushfires but Climate Change.  Big Difference.

I have no idea what they did as former fire chiefs.  Do you?  I wouldnt assume they did f all as bureaucracy is a bullShit paddock . It doesnt really matter...the point was that they saw this disaster coming and wanted a forum to discuss how to tackle the impending situation, So what if they believe in climate change , like the majority of Australians?..as I said they were ignored.   The same way the govt ignores the bank scandals, tax evasion, poverty, homelessness etc.etc.  Until the govt acknowledges that things are definitely getting warmer (its not just Oz) then sooner, rather than later, we will just be one big desert with no green belts at all. 

When I lived in the territory all houses had to have a safe room in case of cyclones.  I had the bottom of my dwelling made into a 3 x 3 meter bunker with core filled cement blocks and steel beam roof.  Used it a few times during decent cyclones...why aren,t houses in forested areas required to have a safety shelter?

[Bird]

Sustained drought + no controlled burns for years + fire bugs = big fires

It's a very simple equation......

The winner

[Bigfish]

The winner

[tryagain]

the point was that they saw this disaster coming and wanted a forum to discuss how to tackle the impending situation, So what if they believe in climate change , like the majority of Australians?..as I said they were ignored.   

You will notice they used the term "the next prime minister" just before the last election, this was when everyone expected Shorten to soon be PM, there is no coincidence in the timing of their press release, they didn't want an audience with Morrison, they could have already asked for this, they wanted an audience with a sympathetic Shorten with his hands on the purse strings.

I was chatting to the head of the division I have been doing some work in at the Christmas party last week, he has just been made redundant due to the sell of the division, previously he had been reasonably high up in a state gov department, I asked him what he was looking for and his response was it depends on what happens at the next state election here in QLD, if there was a change of gov he would be headed back to a gov role, and he is below the level of what the ex fire/emergency chiefs are at. At the level they are at, they are basically pollies disguised bureaucrats, I therefore view whatever they say through the lens of them being a politician as opposed to being impartial expert.

[Hoyks]

Fixed for you

We had 23 former retired experts in inner city building fires,  who think they are experts in bush fires and newly acquired climate change skills, .....

When they are in the job they are actually restricted from speaking their minds in public. Jobs like that are as political as any and they most definitely serve at the pleasure of the premier.
They might be able to speak out behind closed doors, but still have to tow the official line in public and support the premier's party line and not be seen to fight in front of the kids.

After they resign they retain the knowledge that got them the gig in the 1st place, so remain experts (and often get consultancy jobs with the Dept.), but now have a new found freedom to actually say what they really think. 

[rags]

When they are in the job they are actually restricted from speaking their minds in public. Jobs like that are as political as any and they most definitely serve at the pleasure of the premier.
They might be able to speak out behind closed doors, but still have to tow the official line in public and support the premier's party line and not be seen to fight in front of the kids.

After they resign they retain the knowledge that got them the gig in the 1st place, so remain experts (and often get consultancy jobs with the Dept.), but now have a new found freedom to actually say what they really think.

Believe me I know how it works, the Minister sets the direction but the  department DG facilitates between the Minister and stakeholders relying on the public servants to deliver policy. In the case of a Commissioned officer  role they have equal access to the Minister and rightly so, and a significant level of arm twisting of the Minister.

[rags]

Taken from the Thoughthub.com.au

You know what, I am outraged about Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s holiday. I am outraged that a social media campaign, led by people still bitter about the May 18 election, seeks to exploit a crisis to prosecute their political agenda and hound a man into submission. That’s what I’m outraged about.

Two people have died fighting the fires, and dullards who only need the faintest whiff of an excuse to spew their bile could not jump on social media quickly enough to make hay from the tragedy. Let’s be frank: the majority of the people complaining don’t actually care about the fires or those who fight them. What they care about is prosecuting their political agenda against someone who they would never vote for anyway. The fires are just a convenient excuse.

Note how even the Australian Labor Party has largely been silent in their criticism of Morrison. This is to their credit. Why? Because they understand that there’s little more he can do than show up for a photo opportunity while comforting victims (which he has already done – see image). One might say that Morrison could help fight the fires himself, but we had a Prime Minister who did that once. He was hounded out of office by the same people.

You have probably missed it, but this is just some of what the Morrison government has been doing in response to the fires: (*all sources listed below in case you wish to check)

An extra $11 million in emergency funding has been allocated to support the firefighting effort.
Since November 8, the Australian Defence Force has provided jets to transfer firefighters, air support, refuelling and water supply and lent out some of its bases for storing equipment.
From November 8 to February 1, Air Force is providing airlift support to move large groups of firefighters and their equipment between interstate locations.
From November 17 to December 22, Army is supplying personnel to prepare and cook three meals a day for 250 firefighters at the Rural Fire Service staging ground in the Northern Rivers Region, NSW. This support is to enable respite for the volunteers who have been providing meals.
Since November 29, HMAS Albatross has assisted with water refuelling and retardant loading of aircraft fighting the Currowan fires from Naval Air Station Nowra. Seven New South Wales Rural Fire Service aircraft continue to operate from Nowra, comprising four fixed-wing and three helicopters.
From November 26 to January 13, Army is providing the New South Wales Rural Fire Service with ground logistic support for the movement of vehicles, stores and equipment in the Wauchope, Glen Innes, Kempsey, Casino, Wollondilly and Hawkesbury areas.
On December 20, support provided from RAAF Base Edinburgh, South Australia, to refuel two Large Aircraft Tankers fighting fires near Cudlee Creek and Munno Para.
For more information, check the defence department website: https://news.defence.gov.au/national/defence-continues-bushfire-support

What this entire episode shows is the dissonance between real action and symbolism. People on social media love a clever quote or a compelling photo or a heartwarming video. What they don’t take the time to look for is substance and real action. Morrison trusts cabinet process. He trusts that Australia’s ministers and their departments can manage in his absence, if only for a few days. I wonder how many people who just could not wait to smash their keyboards while chugging down a soy frappuccino (too hot for a cappuccino) actually looked further than The Guardian’s outrage inducing headlines to read what real experts have to say about the crisis on the ground.

Here’s what the Australasian National Council for Fire and Emergency Services said about the Federal Government’s response on December 21:

The National Council for fire and emergency services (AFAC) welcomes the increase in Federal Government funding for Australia’s aerial firefighting capacity for 2019/20 announced by the Prime Minister on Thursday 12 December.

The lift of $11 million, in addition to an existing $15 million provided by the Commonwealth annually, will provide the National Aerial Firefighting Centre (NAFC) with additional capacity to engage and extend critical aerial assets supporting firefighting efforts across Australia.

Here is also what they said about support received, as reported:

The Australasian Fire and Emergency Service Authorities Council (Afac) said cross-state firefighting resources were funnelled and distributed across the country where they had been requested, by its national resource sharing centre.

“While many volunteers are not available to travel far from their homes or interstate due to local responsibilities, employment or managing drought-stricken stock that require daily feeding, others are prepared to deploy,” Afac said.

It said there was integrated engagement with the commonwealth and national protocols for managing incident responses and the available fleet of 140 aircraft and international personnel.

“Australia has never been better prepared to face natural disasters,” it said.

Surprised? Probably. Because the main thing that has been reported is the Emergency Leaders for Climate Action group. They are a LOBBY group of FORMER firefighters who are only too happy to critique the current PM. Yet what’s interesting is what happens when you go to the source: emergency workers, defence personnel, and actual authorities charged with coordinating the efforts on the ground.

Please do not let social media dictate the national narrative. The outrage is being fueled by bitter, angry people sitting in sumptuous, air conditioned homes who only care about one thing: vengeance for losing the ‘unloseable election’ in May.

[Bigfish]

Taken from the Thoughthub.com.au

You know what, I am outraged about Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s holiday. I am outraged that a social media campaign, led by people still bitter about the May 18 election, seeks to exploit a crisis to prosecute their political agenda and hound a man into submission. That’s what I’m outraged about.

Two people have died fighting the fires, and dullards who only need the faintest whiff of an excuse to spew their bile could not jump on social media quickly enough to make hay from the tragedy. Let’s be frank: the majority of the people complaining don’t actually care about the fires or those who fight them. What they care about is prosecuting their political agenda against someone who they would never vote for anyway. The fires are just a convenient excuse.

Note how even the Australian Labor Party has largely been silent in their criticism of Morrison. This is to their credit. Why? Because they understand that there’s little more he can do than show up for a photo opportunity while comforting victims (which he has already done – see image). One might say that Morrison could help fight the fires himself, but we had a Prime Minister who did that once. He was hounded out of office by the same people.

You have probably missed it, but this is just some of what the Morrison government has been doing in response to the fires: (*all sources listed below in case you wish to check)

An extra $11 million in emergency funding has been allocated to support the firefighting effort.
Since November 8, the Australian Defence Force has provided jets to transfer firefighters, air support, refuelling and water supply and lent out some of its bases for storing equipment.
From November 8 to February 1, Air Force is providing airlift support to move large groups of firefighters and their equipment between interstate locations.
From November 17 to December 22, Army is supplying personnel to prepare and cook three meals a day for 250 firefighters at the Rural Fire Service staging ground in the Northern Rivers Region, NSW. This support is to enable respite for the volunteers who have been providing meals.
Since November 29, HMAS Albatross has assisted with water refuelling and retardant loading of aircraft fighting the Currowan fires from Naval Air Station Nowra. Seven New South Wales Rural Fire Service aircraft continue to operate from Nowra, comprising four fixed-wing and three helicopters.
From November 26 to January 13, Army is providing the New South Wales Rural Fire Service with ground logistic support for the movement of vehicles, stores and equipment in the Wauchope, Glen Innes, Kempsey, Casino, Wollondilly and Hawkesbury areas.
On December 20, support provided from RAAF Base Edinburgh, South Australia, to refuel two Large Aircraft Tankers fighting fires near Cudlee Creek and Munno Para.
For more information, check the defence department website: https://news.defence.gov.au/national/defence-continues-bushfire-support

What this entire episode shows is the dissonance between real action and symbolism. People on social media love a clever quote or a compelling photo or a heartwarming video. What they don’t take the time to look for is substance and real action. Morrison trusts cabinet process. He trusts that Australia’s ministers and their departments can manage in his absence, if only for a few days. I wonder how many people who just could not wait to smash their keyboards while chugging down a soy frappuccino (too hot for a cappuccino) actually looked further than The Guardian’s outrage inducing headlines to read what real experts have to say about the crisis on the ground.

Here’s what the Australasian National Council for Fire and Emergency Services said about the Federal Government’s response on December 21:

The National Council for fire and emergency services (AFAC) welcomes the increase in Federal Government funding for Australia’s aerial firefighting capacity for 2019/20 announced by the Prime Minister on Thursday 12 December.

The lift of $11 million, in addition to an existing $15 million provided by the Commonwealth annually, will provide the National Aerial Firefighting Centre (NAFC) with additional capacity to engage and extend critical aerial assets supporting firefighting efforts across Australia.

Here is also what they said about support received, as reported:

The Australasian Fire and Emergency Service Authorities Council (Afac) said cross-state firefighting resources were funnelled and distributed across the country where they had been requested, by its national resource sharing centre.

“While many volunteers are not available to travel far from their homes or interstate due to local responsibilities, employment or managing drought-stricken stock that require daily feeding, others are prepared to deploy,” Afac said.

It said there was integrated engagement with the commonwealth and national protocols for managing incident responses and the available fleet of 140 aircraft and international personnel.

“Australia has never been better prepared to face natural disasters,” it said.

Surprised? Probably. Because the main thing that has been reported is the Emergency Leaders for Climate Action group. They are a LOBBY group of FORMER firefighters who are only too happy to critique the current PM. Yet what’s interesting is what happens when you go to the source: emergency workers, defence personnel, and actual authorities charged with coordinating the efforts on the ground.

Please do not let social media dictate the national narrative. The outrage is being fueled by bitter, angry people sitting in sumptuous, air conditioned homes who only care about one thing: vengeance for losing the ‘unloseable election’ in May.

This turkey sounds just as bitter and dimwitted as the people he is spewing forth on..sounds like an arsehole to me with his wild accusations.

[achjimmy]

When I lived in the territory all houses had to have a safe room in case of cyclones.  I had the bottom of my dwelling made into a 3 x 3 meter bunker with core filled cement blocks and steel beam roof.  Used it a few times during decent cyclones...why aren,t houses in forested areas required to have a safety shelter?

Because it would become a human hungi 

Be much more effective to have mandated clearing laws and fireproof building codes like they do once it’s been declared a flame zone and then actively fining those in breach who plant forests around there property and refuse to clear it

[Bigfish]

Because it would become a human hungi 

Be much more effective to have mandated clearing laws and fireproof building codes like they do once it’s been declared a flame zone and then actively fining those in breach who plant forests around there property and refuse to clear it

They only have to keep heat out for a few hours max.  A bloke survived the fire last week shielding behind some heat proof cladding. Fire proof cladding and solid bricks would do it no worries...used ram earth if you wanted.  I shake my head at some of the houses people build in thick forest and have no fire breaks or fire plan.  A shelter as a last ditch means wouldn't be expensive and could save your families life....naturally getting away from the fire is the first move!  Its all about planning and knowing your environment.

[Hairs]

naturally getting away from the fire is the first move!  Its all about planning and knowing your environment.

We have a winner.
Spot on mate.
And it is really that simple.
You are responsible for yourself, no one else is, you are.

[GeoffA]

They only have to keep heat out for a few hours max.  A bloke survived the fire last week shielding behind some heat proof cladding. Fire proof cladding and solid bricks would do it no worries...used ram earth if you wanted.  I shake my head at some of the houses people build in thick forest and have no fire breaks or fire plan.  A shelter as a last ditch means wouldn't be expensive and could save your families life....naturally getting away from the fire is the first move!  Its all about planning and knowing your environment.

An old uncle of mine was a woodsman in Powelltown VIC.
He survived the '39 Black Friday fire by taking refuge in a dugout, but I'm told he wasn't the same man afterwards.

[Bigfish]

An old uncle of mine was a woodsman in Powelltown VIC.
He survived the '39 Black Friday fire by taking refuge in a dugout, but I'm told he wasn't the same man afterwards.

Sitting in a small cyclone shelter can scare the Shit out of you too.   Suppose any real life threatening event will.  As I said..plan and prepare.

[GeoffA]

Sitting in a small cyclone shelter can scare the Shit out of you too.   Suppose any real life threatening event will.  As I said..plan and prepare.

Agree with all of that....

[Bigfish]

If only....

[gronk]

A rello who lived in Macedon had a major fire go thru 20 or 30yrs ago ( you mexicans would know the one ). He was an engineer by trade, installed sprinklers on the roof ( long before it was deemed a good idea ) and had a diesel pump beside the small dam. Family high tailed it, he stayed and manned the pump......when the fire front came over the hill, the pump spluttered for a few seconds ( lack of oxygen ), but kept going......his house was fine, neighbours not so.
Was it a terrifying experience.....yep, he thought it was. Would he do it again.....he doesn't know ?
But it showed with a bit of planning, and some common sense, and a 5 acre block fairly clear of "bush", that survival is possible.


I googled it...was in 1983 !!

[alnjan]

Not NSW but for the Qld Fires.  Any Public outrage here

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bushfires-double-standards-call-on-qld-premier-annastacia-palaszczuks-leave/news-story/5e22112d2b8e7c85f42bac67fd7e7624

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk’s decision to take leave as bushfires continue to burn throughout the state has sparked a rebuke from an opposition frontbencher who called out perceived double standards.

[gronk]

Not NSW but for the Qld Fires.  Any Public outrage here

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bushfires-double-standards-call-on-qld-premier-annastacia-palaszczuks-leave/news-story/5e22112d2b8e7c85f42bac67fd7e7624

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk’s decision to take leave as bushfires continue to burn throughout the state has sparked a rebuke from an opposition frontbencher who called out perceived double standards.

The only problem with the link is you need to subscribe to "the australian" to get access !!
Some of the other news articles on the web are blocked by my adblocker

[GeoffA]

......
I googled it...was in 1983 !!

Ash Wednesday....horrible....

[alnjan]

The only problem with the link is you need to subscribe to "the australian" to get access !!
Some of the other news articles on the web are blocked by my adblocker

More and more media is doing it and then they complain their news is not getting out there. 

From the article

Bushfires: ‘Double standards’ call on Qld Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk’s leave

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk’s decision to take leave as bushfires continue to burn throughout the state has sparked a rebuke from an opposition frontbencher who called out perceived double standards.

As Scott Morrison returned to Australia and apologised after cutting short his holiday in Hawaii, The Australian confirmed Ms Palaszczuk has taken Christmas leave.

Opposition industrial relations and education spokesman Jarrod Bleijie tweeted: “So it seems the left-wing trolls have a problem with the PM spending time with his family on a short holiday but have no problem with the leader of the state … who (by the way) is responsible for fire response being on holidays and apparently just boarded a cruise.”

There were dozens of fires burning throughout Queensland on Sunday, but they did not pose any immediate threat to people or property.

Ms Palaszczuk’s leave was advertised in the Government Gazette on December 16, with an announcement that she would be replaced by Acting Premier Jackie Trad.

A spokesman said Ms Palaszczuk planned to spend some of her holiday on North Stradbroke Island.

“The Premier is on leave in Queensland and is able to return at any time if needed,” the spokesman told The Australian.

The decision to go on leave amid a time of heightened fire danger came as Morrison faced a barrage of public criticism for his Hawaiian holiday.

The Prime Minister ultimately cut his family vacation short and flew back to NSW where he yesterday said he accepted criticism of his decision to leave the country.

In September, Mr Bleijie publicly criticised Ms Palaszczuk’s decision to fly to Switzerland on a business trip to promote Queensland’s Olympic Games bid while fires burned throughout the state.

The premier later cut her trip short to return to the fire zone.

South Australian Premier Steven Marshall cancelled his own scheduled overseas holiday on Friday as fires gripped the state.Mr Marshall, who had planned to travel to New Zealand, told The Sunday Mail he didn’t think it was “appropriate” to go on holiday on Friday while the State Emergency Centre was operational.

“While that still remains in force and my primary focus is to do everything that I can,” he said.

“I understand that I can’t be much practical use in one of these fires, I’m not on the front line, but there are powers I have as Premier which need to be available if things start going in the wrong direction.”

South Australian Premier Steven Marshall cancelled his scheduled overseas holiday on Friday as fires gripped the state.

[D4D]

Terrible fires and they bring back memories of Black Saturday.

For the discussion around bunkers and building codes. We're 10 years on from Black Saturday and whilst a lot has been learnt, what has been identified is that it is very hard/almost impossible to build a fire bunker/refuge and even rebuilding a burnt out property in some areas is not an option due to lack of anybody willing to sign it off. There have been some lucky escapes using makeshift bunkers, would you trust your life to one or just gtfo.

Regarding 'fire-proofing' your house, a friend of mine who owned a property at Benloch built a house to withstand a Black Saturday scale fire. It was very interesting to understand the engineering that went into that place with multiple redundant systems. In the end it cost him almost five times the cost of building a normal house and was pretty ugly. After it was all done he said he'd still leave if a big fire came through.