Author Topic: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows  (Read 13183 times)

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Offline prodigyrf

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Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« on: August 06, 2012, 05:26:53 PM »
I inappropriately spoiled a charming thread with pictures here-
http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=24194.0;topicseen
and consequently removed it largely to this post here for comments.
 
Never work with children and animals is sound advice, but as adults and parents you need to be aware of what is happening in our legal system behind closed doors.

Sadly I have to advise that if you approached a seal on land closer than 30M, or in this 'heinous' case, within 50M of what is clearly a seal pup, then in the State of South Australia, you would face a fine of $100,000 or 2 years imprisonment. I understand that is the Marine Mammal protection Law in most States now, although coming to Queenslanders soon by all accounts with a quick net search-
http://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/wildlife/pdf/marine-mamal-submission-guideline.pdf

The people in high places and offices who know all about these things and have pushed for National uniform Legislation, would be thoroughly disgusted by the example to young children being set here and would want Parks and Wildlife to throw the book at the adults involved. These are the same Greens, vegans and PETAheads gunning for the closure of rodeos and circuses and zoos to leave future generations with only a digital appreciation of the wonderment of animals and Nature in general. Be very concerned about what it is they wish for and as for those 4WD tracks near that young marine mammal the usual suspects are beavering away at that too.

Most of you will be oblivious to what's been going on quietly behind your backs with such Legislation as you'll discover here-
http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/R/NATIONAL%20PARKS%20AND%20WILDLIFE%20(PROTECTED%20ANIMALS%20-%20MARINE%20MAMMALS)%20REGULATIONS%202010/CURRENT/2010.263.UN.PDF

In particular with those heinous kiddies in the pic notice-

15—Distance to be kept by persons on land
(1) A person who is on land must not move closer than 30 metres to a seal or sea lion
(whether the seal or sea lion is on land or in water).
(2) A person who is on land must not move closer than 50 metres to a marine mammal
(whether the marine mammal is on land or in water) if the marine mammal—
(a) shows signs of disturbance; or
(b) appears to be sick or injured; or
(c) is stranded; or
(d) is entangled or otherwise physically incapacitated by material of human
origin; or
(e) is a calf or pup.
(3) Subregulation (1) or (2) does not apply if a person is on a prescribed viewing structure
and no seal or sea lion is present on the structure at the same time.
(4) If a seal or sea lion present on a prescribed viewing structure moves closer than
30 metres to a person, the person must maintain his or her position on the structure or
move away from the seal or sea lion.

Not that the kiddies can be held responsible but any adult can and ignorance of the Law is no excuse as we all know, or at least as this fellow discovered while returning to the boat ramp at Victor Harbor when he got excitedly carried away getting too close(300M in his case) to deified, sanctified whales-
http://www.victorharbortimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/whale-of-a-fine/2583142.aspx

I understand his fine was actually $20,000 but reduced by $5000 for that guilty plea but with costs added on, all up around $21k.  However the Court has graciously given him 6yrs to pay it off, since he is a Church Minister (happy clapper) with wife and 2 young kiddies and no doubt a mortgage. Apparently being on a jetski with suction intake and water jet outlet rather than a propellor in the water means you cop nearly 4 times the fine, even if the jetski doesn't actually run into the whales-
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-09-06/man-fined-after-hitting-whale-with-boat/2250050
so you work it out.

My comments are meant in good faith to warn you all to be very careful in your travels nowadays. The juxtaposition of my observations (with that innocent picture) should rightly shock and disturb you all under the circumstances. Why wouldn't they to people here who love Nature and the great outdoors and want to pass that on to their children?

For mine there is the Law and then there is the intent of the Law and the prosecution of it. One thing the real villains know only too well is that digital images (in particular cctv footage) is of no concern. All they need do is reserve their right to silence when questioned or charged and providing their is no-one who can stand up in Court and say- That's Vincent Focarelli your Honour, I've known him for years and I saw hima at the Highway Inn on such and such and yada, yada...then the DPP will throw the proceedings in the chicken manure bin-
http://www.news.com.au/news/all-charges-dropped-over-bikie-brawl-at-the-highway-inn-plympton/story-fnehlez2-1226438663834
Bear that in mind should you find yourself completely innocent of any real intent of the Law, yet tripping over the letter of the Law being made behind your back.

In the case of that $15000 fine plus costs, being a man of God he has resigned himself(and his family??) to pay Ceasar's dues, even though he has been advised it would likely be overturned as manifestly excessive on Appeal. Even NPWS were shocked at the penalty handed down and to have it stand is a disgrace for our Justice system.

My apologies to all you young people but I'm 60 with grown up children and perhaps grandkids one day(like the gorgeous OP's hopefully), but I'm so bloody angry at my old fart, wanker generation for letting you down and putting you all at risk like this. I trust you'll understand the frustration and shame I feel for a generation that knew what it was like to run free and yet somehow stayed silent while the vocal minority ran amok with our Legal system.

My deepest humblest apologies on behalf of my generation.



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Offline D4D

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 05:36:21 PM »
Some advice - when you're in a hole stop digging...
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Offline Chippy76

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 05:39:57 PM »
I agree with D4D ....

Cheers Chippy :D
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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 05:41:54 PM »
Thanks for the info.
 :cheers:

Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 07:08:10 PM »
Some advice - when you're in a hole stop digging...

I'm not in a hole D4D but I fear increasingly a younger generation are and it's wrong. Take my son and his surfer mates. They surf as far away as the West Coast of SA. That's big Noah country and they see them out and about and there's no need to remind their mothers it's- Noah's X, Surfer's nil. So they're quite happy when up to 70 dolphins at a time join them riding the waves.

Now should some Greenie old farts pull up in the Winnebago for a latte and get outraged at these young blokes enjoying themselves, click, click and complain to the NPWS then guess what? The Law says don't swim within 30 metres of those marine mammals, so the first time a dolphin joins them on a wave they can't paddle back out again or $100k or 2 yrs staring them in the face. Photographing the kiddies within 50M of that seal pup too eh?

Anywhere, anytime some rabid Greenie takes offence and lays a complaint the State is obligated to act. You people drive loathsome 4WDs to these fanatics remember. Keep turning a blind eye to what they're up to and what sort of freedoms and open spaces will your children inherit?

There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline Mallory Black

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 07:46:38 PM »
It's certainly a stupid law
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Offline D4D

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 07:49:01 PM »
Not really, designed to keep the half wits on jet skis etc. away from them...
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 07:51:45 PM »
I'll take the Diazepam while Sydney-siders take the bus or train in future-
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8511616/sydney-ferry-hits-whale-and-calf
Watch for them come crawling out of the shadows over this and note already that first comment about the ferry captain. Time to ban those bullbars on 4WDs soon I reckon. Why would you need them if you're all careful ferry captains on the lookout eh? Now where'd I put that medication....
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline DeBe

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 07:52:27 PM »
I agree with prodigyrf. I am a volunteer with Sea Rescue localy & we towed a boat in to the boat ramp & when we tied up a large Seal jumped up onto the board at the stern & stuck his nose over the back of the boat. I gues with this legislation we should have abandoned ship, just to give him his personal space.

Offline rooscoota

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 08:03:22 PM »
some people cant see the forest for the trees.

Offline xcvator

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 08:08:41 PM »
prodigyrf, you have some very valid points here These laws are not just about seals/whales/dolphins etc.
Its about tracks and areas being totally closed off for ever.Its about not being able to pick up a fallen piece of timber for a fire coz an ant lives under it.
It's about going to the beach and not being allowed to throw in a fishing line.
It's about not being allowed to take your dog camping with you no matter how responsible you are.
It's about high country huts being out of bounds to campers eg Fry's
So before you start to jump on the op start to think about all those things you took for granted even 10 years ago, that you're NOT ALLOWED to do any more



rant over
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Offline Estelle

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 08:27:35 PM »
I'll take the Diazepam while Sydney-siders take the bus or train in future-
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8511616/sydney-ferry-hits-whale-and-calf
Watch for them come crawling out of the shadows over this and note already that first comment about the ferry captain. Time to ban those bullbars on 4WDs soon I reckon. Why would you need them if you're all careful ferry captains on the lookout eh? Now where'd I put that medication....


You will always get 'strange' responses or opinions to events like this. One response doesn't mean there will be changes to laws and legislations.

Maybe the third and fifth response are 'strange'. depends on your point of view. Or maybe how many reefers you have had.

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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 08:31:07 PM by Estelle »
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Offline GOLDIE

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 08:34:56 PM »
Not really, designed to keep the half wits on jet skis etc. away from them...

I use to ride jet skis and dolphins would pop up all the time around you. Can you advise how to stop them coming near you???
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2012, 08:44:55 PM »
It's about all sorts of things with these fanatics and overboarders. Notice how a post by some younguns on Facebook gets them fired up and there are stiff fines for even interfering with the remains of dead marine mammals-
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/callous-whale-desecration-gets-facebook-profile-20120719-22bj5.html

But apparently it's OK for the 'appropriate' authorities to engage in the great chainsaw massacre-
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/whale-watch/whale-of-a-dirty-job-for-humpback-disposal-team-20120801-23fmz.html
but maybe we have to get rid of those man-made swinmming baths just in case the whale wasn't dead before it washed up in there?

But most of all you have to look back in time to appreciate how many inroads these whale worshippers and people loathers have made already, when my folks were fairly pragmatic about these sorts of things-
The Infamous Exploding Whale Small | Large

That sort of thing would elicit a Royal Commission nowadays.


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Offline D4D

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2012, 08:46:12 PM »
I use to ride jet skis and dolphins would pop up all the time around you. Can you advise how to stop them coming near you???

I think it was more for the riders who were deliberately running over them and generally being tools.
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Offline briann532

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012, 08:49:53 PM »
I think it was more for the riders who were deliberately running over them and generally being tools.

I've got a different solution for that.................. >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
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Offline Chippy76

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2012, 08:56:56 PM »
Marine protection rules exist to protect marine animals. If the marine animal approaches (not vice versa) you are not obligated to "run away" to protect the animal. You can remain in situ, so long as you arent seen to be interfering with the animal. 

As to the photo in Q ...... are the kids too close to the seal pup ? Legally ...MAybe ..... HOWEVER, the seal appears to be relatively calm (tho I am no expert in seal behaviour) and I am sure that a myswagger with a genuine interest in the outdoors would respect the welfare of the seal.

I can understand the fascination with the seal ...not a common sight on Bribie I would guess.

Rules exist to protect the un protected/ defenseless (ie animals), but there is no need to take them at face value and run the hard arm of the law. I too hate being dictated to on where we can go and what we can see. But if we dont get out there and see the world, one day all the gates may be closed before we get to see anything ....

Cheers Chippy :D
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2012, 09:07:57 PM »
2 convictions in 40 years I would say the Minster must have been being a total dick on the Jet ski and probaly deserved what he got, sorry for generalizing here but most Jetski operators appear to lose all rational when thee out on the water!. As for the kids in the original photo, good on em and I bet nothing will or would of happened they looked to be observing responsibly .
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2012, 09:10:41 PM »
I'll take the Diazepam while Sydney-siders take the bus or train in future-
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8511616/sydney-ferry-hits-whale-and-calf
Watch for them come crawling out of the shadows over this and note already that first comment about the ferry captain. Time to ban those bullbars on 4WDs soon I reckon. Why would you need them if you're all careful ferry captains on the lookout eh? Now where'd I put that medication....


Sydney ferries have been running over things and sadly people for years, they seem to be oblivious to it.
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2012, 09:19:59 PM »
HI Prodigy

I can see your point however, like all things in life, there are two sides to a story, maybe more.

Here in Tas we just had two dogs kill a third of our little penguin colony.  It has set rehabilitation of the colony back at least five years, probably more.

The fine - $520.00.

If it went to court - $2200.

Should it be more.  Probably.

While the figures of the fines seem huge being in the field you would know that that maximum fines are rarely, if ever, given.  The amount is based on the act. 

My understanding of the issues with native animals is that our interaction can upset their behaviour and lead to their demise.  This is one of the issues with our little penguins down here to the point that our national parks and NRM people are trying to keep the remaining ones secret as the smell left from humans prevents them coming ashore and their young dying.

So what I am trying to say is its probably not quite as black as you portray it.  Though  :cheers: for caring.

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Offline dazzler

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2012, 09:22:45 PM »
I agree with prodigyrf. I am a volunteer with Sea Rescue localy & we towed a boat in to the boat ramp & when we tied up a large Seal jumped up onto the board at the stern & stuck his nose over the back of the boat. I gues with this legislation we should have abandoned ship, just to give him his personal space.

It interacted with you.  You dont need to move.  Come on.
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 12:12:42 AM »
It interacted with you.  You dont need to move.  Come on.


That's true dazzler but don't pull out a camera and start taking pics which is a natural response or you could find yourself in trouble like a couple more young men I know. If you look at that ferry whale collision report there's a pic of a boat there that would normally need to be 100M from a whale but when the skipper knows it's injured or in distress that increases to 300M. Read those SA Regs carefully and you'll realize how ridiculous it is to state categorical distances. Do they really think boaties carry tape measures to justify why telephoto lenses make them appear guilty of a very serious offence?

Here's what I mean-
http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/environment/splash-down-20120714-222ui.html
Now bear in mind the boat in the background should be 100M from the whale while the photographer on the boat this side must also be 100M from the whale and no other boat can approach within 300M until one of them leaves the area. Now it's true the whale may have moved between the 2 boats but from that pic can you tell the photographer is 200M from that boat in the background? While you're working that out does that whale 'show signs of disturbance' in which case the 2 boats better nick off 300M from that whale. Now I ask you, what kind of subjective rubbish is that, with metreage attached? $100k or 2 yrs in prison remember and it all depends on what sort of Greeny Judge you run into. You can bake a cake with a file in it for the next young jetskier in South Oz.

There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 12:33:53 AM »
We all know why whales were protected and yes I've been to the Bight to see the whales with the missus oohing and ahhing over 36 Southern Rights with an albino (grey) among them. Clearly they're back in numbers since I spotted a rare lone one off Whalers Way near Pt Lincoln around 25 yrs ago. Impressive big fish, but if you're a little guy krill with no-one sticking up for you, I guess you're barracking for the Japs, harpoons and sushi (the missus isn't listening is she?)

So now they're coming up our Gulf and more young blokes out on the water are running into them and the Law, bearing in mind these 'kids' don't read newspapers or watch the nightly news like we old farts do. So here's a test for you. Firstly an easy one. Why are they called Right whales? Now one for the Greeny know-alls among you (just joking). Why do our Southern rights seek out those cliffs around the Bight and are increasingly comfortable coming up our Gulf with all those heinous jetskiers and boaties? 
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline speewa158

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 04:37:42 AM »
Can we get in troble looking at the pics of our watery friends   ??? ??? . Or thinking about looking at them . It seem to be getting silly as it goes on & on & on . :laugh:
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Beware the growing legal monster being fed in the shadows
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 07:43:10 AM »
That's true dazzler but don't pull out a camera and start taking pics which is a natural response or you could find yourself in trouble like a couple more young men I know. If you look at that ferry whale collision report there's a pic of a boat there that would normally need to be 100M from a whale but when the skipper knows it's injured or in distress that increases to 300M. Read those SA Regs carefully and you'll realize how ridiculous it is to state categorical distances. Do they really think boaties carry tape measures to justify why telephoto lenses make them appear guilty of a very serious offence?

Here's what I mean-
http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/environment/splash-down-20120714-222ui.html
Now bear in mind the boat in the background should be 100M from the whale while the photographer on the boat this side must also be 100M from the whale and no other boat can approach within 300M until one of them leaves the area. Now it's true the whale may have moved between the 2 boats but from that pic can you tell the photographer is 200M from that boat in the background? While you're working that out does that whale 'show signs of disturbance' in which case the 2 boats better nick off 300M from that whale. Now I ask you, what kind of subjective rubbish is that, with metreage attached? $100k or 2 yrs in prison remember and it all depends on what sort of Greeny Judge you run into. You can bake a cake with a file in it for the next young jetskier in South Oz.


My quote was was in response to a seal jumping into a boat with someone.

In the spirit of myswag friendly debate quote correctly.
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