Water crossing with kids - how should you do it?????

[D4D]

Same as the ones D4D posted a link to, but big difference in price.!

My link is for people who buy Warn winches the other link is for people who buy Tigerz winches

[efjay]

Warn are overpriced...  Not everything is about how much it costs

[TroyE]

having been in the very situation i'll give you my point of view.

It was just me and the Kids as the wife was on photo duty.
I wont go into the details of how it happened again lets just say we were on our side in water.

Things that we did right.
1. Have windows OPEN.  This sounds counter intuitive at first, but having elec. windows if the water was to cut the engine then the windows dont work and water would still be in the car.
2. Have kids belted in.
3. travel in a group.

Things I did wrong. (other than be in the situation)
1. Get too far away from help.  I was probably 100 meters away from the others.
2. I didnt panic, but i didnt react either. By the time my mate was standing on the side of the car ripping the kids out I was still trying to drive out of it.

I'm pretty sure it wont happen that way again, but if we do get stuck, i'm hoping the experience has taught me a valuable lesson.(s)

cheers

Shit scary stuff hope you all got out ok, what was the vehicle?

trot

[D4D]

Warn are overpriced

Depends who you know

Not everything is about how much it costs

See above

[LeighC]

I have a preference for no seatbelts as if things go pear shaped as I don't think there's enough time to get the harness belts off the kids. (think about getting your own belt off, partner doing the same, trying reaching around and release the kids clip or find your seat belt knife, cut the belt without injuring the kid, all while the car is sliding and water is rising)

My reasoning behind no seatbelts is;
* a water crossing will be done at low speed, enough to make a bow wave.
* if things went wrong and I wanted to bail it would probably be from a cross current about to sweep the car away.
* grab kid(s) by chest-clothing and take them with you through the front

Windows should be down, don't need to be all the way.

The biggest part would be, if the risk is high and there's no real need, I'd give it a miss anyway.

Awesome topic though

[austastar]

The biggest part would be, if the risk is high and there's no real need, I'd give it a miss anyway.

x2 even without kids.


cheers

[D4D]

Windows should be down, don't need to be all the way.

I'd prefer all the way down or up. Half way you have the risk of hitting something on the edge of the glass.

[CJ1177]

My work recently put us through a advanced 4WD course, as part of the course the subject of water crossings came up.

Amongst other advice we were taught to have all belts off - for quick escape and no fiddling around with belt buckles under murky water, plus if the water is rising fast inside the vehicle you / kids will float up against the seat belt making it harder to undo.

We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.

[shanegtr]

I have a preference for no seatbelts as if things go pear shaped as I don't think there's enough time to get the harness belts off the kids. (think about getting your own belt off, partner doing the same, trying reaching around and release the kids clip or find your seat belt knife, cut the belt without injuring the kid, all while the car is sliding and water is rising)

My reasoning behind no seatbelts is;
* a water crossing will be done at low speed, enough to make a bow wave.
* if things went wrong and I wanted to bail it would probably be from a cross current about to sweep the car away.
* grab kid(s) by chest-clothing and take them with you through the front

Windows should be down, don't need to be all the way.

The biggest part would be, if the risk is high and there's no real need, I'd give it a miss anyway.

Awesome topic though

My work recently put us through a advanced 4WD course, as part of the course the subject of water crossings came up.

Amongst other advice we were taught to have all belts off - for quick escape and no fiddling around with belt buckles under murky water, plus if the water is rising fast inside the vehicle you / kids will float up against the seat belt making it harder to undo.

We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.

I agree with these comments. Belts can stay off for any deep crossing as if it turns pear shaped you really dont want to waste time hunting for your belt cutter (especially if its already gone under the water)

[LeighC]

I'd prefer all the way down or up. Half way you have the risk of hitting something on the edge of the glass.

I was going more on the side of attempting to open the door against air pressure inside against none but handn't considered the edge however

 

We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.

would be a plan of choice for me from now on.

[LC]

I would agree with the no seatbelts. Having done a couple of Helicopter Uderwater Escape training (HUET) courses for work where you are in a mock helicopter underwater, upside down, with a six point seat bealt on, it is hard enough to undo your own little lone trying to get at your kids in the back seat. On the HUET course we always had people panic even though it was a controlled environment with divers at the ready to get you out if need be, and even after they had practiced and practiced undoing the seat belts out of the water.

I can only imagine the amount of panicing that would go on inside a vehicle that is rapidly filing with water especially when kids are involved, so yeah no seat belts.

The electric window thing is something I have often thought about as well.

[SteveandViv]

well, glad it got back on the the original question - water crossings. So how fast are you going that deep to need a seat belt on. Seriously if you have ever been in a crossing that deep you would know there is no way you can get that fast as to need  seat belt. I would rather have the windows down (and do) and have no seat belts on (I don't either in these cases) and as mentioned no pissing around trying to find cutters and knifes and windscreen hammers. Also life jackets are a bad idea as they will only cause to hold you up rather than letting you get out through the window. Think about the airline safety - don't inflate until you exit the plane!

My seven year old loves deep crossing and did all with me last year when we did the Cape. IMO none were even remotely going to cause a problem and I would say those who have done the same would also agree. If you enter a river flowing to fast then you should have turned back as mentioned.

Oh this is my opinion and no opinions were hurt in the making of mine.

My son likes to try and reach the water while we are crossing deep water. Fun for the while family. This was Nolans last year and I know a lot of swaggers that also did this crossing with out harm.

My son wound his window up as the water stated to come in over it. Mine stayed open.

[Burnsy]

The electric window thing is something I have often thought about as well.

They do stop working, my brother sunk his Navara two weeks ago on his own driveway (yep he has a cool driveway).  Him, partner and two boys 12 and 15 in the car, windows up.  By the time he realised they were in trouble as the car started floating he could only get one window nearly all the way down before they stopped working.  He also said the doors all locked so they all had to climb out the one window (this confused me, do navaras not have manual door buttons inside?).  Luckily the car stayed upright b ut it ended up in water deep enough to make the dash cluster look like a fish tank.

[griz066]

Have one of these at each exit point...

Hey D4D have you ever tried the Life Hammer on a seatbelt. I was a Firie for 24 years in a former life and we found them totally useless at cutting seat belts. We used a stanley knife. Ok for breaking glass though. Just might let you down when needed is all. They also may have improved over the years as well.

[achjimmy]

Hey D4D have you ever tried the Life Hammer on a seatbelt. I was a Firie for 24 years in a former life and we found them totally useless at cutting seat belts. We used a stanley knife. Ok for breaking glass though. Just might let you down when needed is all. They also may have improved over the years as well.

This something I often wondered. A friend bought one of them years ago when they first came out and we always questioned its ability to cut the belts. Always wanted to get a spare strap from somewhere and try em. I have no doubt the hammer part would work.  all the Japanese bullet trains have them mounted for exactly that reason.

[SteveandViv]

Question. Are these not the same as we all got with our Cargo Barriers? Not sure if the belt cutter is on them though. Mine is in the boot, so to speak so can't be sure.

[Patr80l]

My work recently put us through a advanced 4WD course, as part of the course the subject of water crossings came up.

Amongst other advice we were taught to have all belts off - for quick escape and no fiddling around with belt buckles under murky water, plus if the water is rising fast inside the vehicle you / kids will float up against the seat belt making it harder to undo.

We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.

Good points but if you roll onto your side the seat belts may prevent everybody falling about and it will be the downstream windows that will be underwater or facing the riverbed.   I've never been in this situation and the deepest crossing I've done was a bit over 1m.   I imagine the problem occurs more often when normal cars try to cross flooded causeways rather than 4WD's crossing creeks.   If you get pushed off a causeway you end up in deep water whereas in a creek crossing you're less likely to go from fording depth to over-the-roof in the blink of an eye.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-SMITH-AND-WESSON-FIRST-RESPONSE-RESCUE-KNIFE-EXPRESS-POST-/400260032393?pt=AU_KnivesSwords&hash=item5d315b6789#ht_2243wt_1378  is an alternative rescue tool.   Many knife manufacturers make them and they include a belt cutter and glass breaker

[chester ver2.0]

I like those ideas, you can't tell you're the OH&S guy
[/quote

But im the fun OHS guy

[D4D]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-SMITH-AND-WESSON-FIRST-RESPONSE-RESCUE-KNIFE-EXPRESS-POST-/400260032393?pt=AU_KnivesSwords&hash=item5d315b6789#ht_2243wt_1378  is an alternative rescue tool.   Many knife manufacturers make them and they include a belt cutter and glass breaker

Oh I like that, might replace my old faithful Spyderco knife...

[Kangaron]

Lots of options here locally.

http://www.firetrader.com.au/category41_1.htm

beware of cheap ebay knock offs.

[D4D]

Now you've dont it, I want a Fubar Forceible Entry Tool now
http://www.firetrader.com.au/prod491.htm

[cruisindub]

This something I often wondered. A friend bought one of them years ago when they first came out and we always questioned its ability to cut the belts. Always wanted to get a spare strap from somewhere and try em. I have no doubt the hammer part would work.  all the Japanese bullet trains have them mounted for exactly that reason.

The seat belt cutter does work(on goodquality ones) the cheap eBay ones may not be that flash, but you cut diagonal down the seat belt rather than straight across. Even if you cut a longer length cut it's quicker/easier than attempting to cut straight across. Worth a try to prove it works and rest easy,also practice so in an emergency you don't panic and calmly cut yours or someone else's of you can't get to the seat belt release

[Jason B]

Thanks for all the great input guys, there is some good info coming out of this.



Regards

Jas

[rossow]

**** scary stuff hope you all got out ok, what was the vehicle?

trot

It was  Jeep.  It may even been the one the OP was referencing

[Bird]

It should never really be an issue. If you can't walk across the river (due to water flow, or depth) you shouldn't drive it. I have never had problems with turning back. It can give you the Shits, but meh, if thats the worst thing...

If you can walk it before crossing, you should find any hidden nasties on the river bed.

One way to do it is you walk across marking your route with sticks - one wheel track on the way across, then a bit wider than the other wheel track on the way back... Then drive between the sticks.

If your car does somehow start floating down river, open the door and flood the car let it sink to the bottom, and get traction again. It works...