NSW National Parks are no longer safe

[grizzly]

This will bring a myriad of emotive and varied responses , however here I go.
 Barry O Farrell has sold out to the Fishers and Shooters Party and is going to allow private shooters access to the national parks in NSW to secure votes to sell off our power(end of political rant) What this means for the people who visit and the approximately 900 Field Staff and I am not sure how many Rangers is that every time we go into the reserves to work we not only need to worry about the many and various hazards of our work place but now have to watch and listen for the crack and whirl of shooters bullets, This not only affects the staff but every visitor to National Parks estates has to wonder who is out there and where are they and are you on the wrong end of that shooters gun,( truckie shot dead by stray bullet in southern Sydney a year ago) but hark I hear we are all responsible shooters we always hit our target, that is little comfort for the person or animals that could be behind that target as a high powered projectile is not concerned with stopping at its intended target it keeps going until its energy is spent and anything in its way is another victim, The NPWS staff that shoot have to go through an exhaustive process before they are allowed to shoot and it includes ensuring that there is no perceivable possibility that any off target species or people could be affected and if this is not possible they do not even get the gun out of the locker.They have to notify Police, neighbours, place signage close areas and search for members of the public before they start. At present in State Forests if you want to shoot and have access to the internet you can get approval to shoot in minutes on their estates ( so I am told by Union rep) I ask how many shooters go through the checks that NPWS staff above have to before pulling a trigger,
Now for those who have not seen how this relates to a forum about camper trailer users think about you your wife and kids getting up in the morning after travelling down your favourite track to that peacefull site in the National Park by the water cooking your breakfast and hearing one then two ,three  high powered rifle shots not far from your camp. if this does not concern you than you are blessed with a less stressed system than me.
 I will also have to reconsider sending Scouts on hikes through Parks as I can no longer reasonable consider NSW National Parks as a safe venue for this type of activity, We as staff cannot  effectively police the estates we have now due to staffing, trying to stop other illegal activities is a dream and now it will not only be the proposed regulated shooters that we will see in these Parks but the rednecks who already do the wrong thing may think its open season.
I have read some other threads on this site from people who appear to be very responsible and experienced shooters and I respect their right to their sport. I have enjoyed the sport briefly on a family property shooting ferrals and roo's (before the new gun laws )and this is not intended as a swipe at you or your sport however we need to have areas free of these hazards and there are much more effective controls for feral animals if properly funded and these are happening and should be the preferred option in OUR National Parks.
( My sympathy goes to the family of the Truck driver killed by the stray bullet in Sydney and I only used that very sad incident as an example of the worst sort of outcome of stray bullets I sincerely hope no offence is taken by any friends or family of the man who may read this )
A very concerned
Grizzly

[schmik]

Was that stray bullet in a national park? I remember a truckie getting one in southern sydney.

Hey... don't some streets in sydney have drive by shootings as a nightly event. You aren't safe in the city either.

I am not into hunting or shooting and would prefer not to worry about it but it's nice to see some access to national parks being given.

Don't worry, with the huge fees to enter a park, all the locked gates for the tracks and very restrictive camping there aren't too many visitors to get that stray bullet.

[Hoyks]

... And shooting of feral species has been allowed in NSW state forests for the past several years and administered by a permit system, yet forests aren't knee deep in the bodies of bush walkers, 4wheel drivers and forest workers. Deer have been hunted in Vic National parks with no incidents that I have heard about.

As for Scouts in the bush, Ive been on hikes with scouts and any game animal within a grid square has cleared out because they are a bunch of rowdy little buggers!

I think you have more chance of being hit by a stray bullet in the city than you do in the bush.

[GeeTee]

yeah Grizzly full respect to you for being involved in Scouting... but maybe you are being a little 'emotional' with this (as is often the case with guns/shooting). There is hunting/shooting going on elsewhere, all the time - you just don't see it on the news

I don't think a stray bullet will go far with trees around - a bit different to a Sydney street.
 
Subject to stringent management, I think hunting of ferals in NPs is a good idea - as almost every trek into NPs and other areas I do highlights, there is lots of feral/vermin animals out there

The real problem with this is, it's political - not plain and simple common sense for the benefit of all NP users

[bussoboy]

must admit it concerns me but more for the noise than the chance of being hit by a stray bullet, but i'ld like to read more about how they plan on working it before jumping on any bandwagon on either side

[Hoyks]

Probably through this organisation:
http://www.gamecouncil.nsw.gov.au/

Conservation Hunting on Declared Public Land in NSW

Accredited and licensed hunters have begun to participate in feral animal control on public land areas declared for hunting under the Game and Feral Animal Control Act 2002.

Hunting on State forest declared for hunting is managed by controls identified in a risk assessment undertaken by Forests NSW in 2009. The risk assessment can viewed on the Department of Primary Industries Forests website at http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/forests/recreation/activities/i-want-to-go-hunting.

Written permission + Restricted Licence = ACCESS

Only accredited, licensed hunters may apply for written permission to hunt certain species of introduced game and feral animals on certain State forests and Crown Lands, through a highly controlled booking system.

[craigtempo]

sorry mate but i think ur being a bit paranoid .rangers are already shooting in some parks and theve been shooting in national parks in New Zealand for years to control feral animals .

i dont have a problem with it as long as its controlled as im sure it will be cause we all know how anal the NP,s are .

craig

[Jason B]

Grizzly


You make some good points. However it is naive to think that allowing registered, licenced and permitted shoots access to the park will make it unsafe. Currently we have a system where these people are locked out of the parks....full stop. What we do have at the moment is 1000's of shooters (licenced/unlicensed who knows) that are accessing the parks illegally to shoot and have been doing so forever. These people are aware of the risks and penalties associated with their behaviour and are therefore also a danger because of the steps they are willing to take to evade capture. They also cause $100,000's of dollars worth of damage to NP infrastructure such as gates and fences as they know major access roads are monitored with cameras.

At least this way there will be more eyes on the ground and those eyes will be very passionate about their sport and access rights. This may actually lead to less unauthorised and illegal shooters in the parks. I believe that prosecutions in Forests for illegal shooters have increased since they were opened to hunting. Most of the prosecutions have been a result of information supplied by licenced/permitted hunters (concerned about the actions of rogues affecting their future access).

The issue is highly emotive, however the notion that you will go into a NP and see people walking around everywhere with guns is just false.

Regards


Jas 

[TOY80ST]

Fine just keep doing your unsuccessfull trapping and baiting that you have been doing for years.

It works in other countries with far more relaxed firearm laws than we have. After all it is not like they are going to allow Joe average with a firearm licence to just go shooting in a national park. I have a permit to shoot in a national park. I am not going into details as I do not take friends along and there are many on here who would love to come if they knew how and where. People are goiing to have to be assessed and trained.

Oh I am a scout leader too and one thing about scouts is they stand out like dogs goolies as do I when I hunt in national parks with my bright orange camo gear.

Good luck with your one man quest into something that I have been doing in western region for several years now.

[Estelle]

Fancy a politician changing his mind.

Not wild about this change either, but it looks like it will only be allowed in 79 of the States 799 parks and reserves.

[Bird]

Anyway you look at it, it shows how piss poor our electoral system is... Minorities control this place..

It is a dangerous way to be.

To get something passed you have to pander to a weird minority...

It may not be bad this time, but one day some pack of real nutcases will hold the balance and we are all fawkt then.
In the meantime,

[Jason B]

It may not be bad this time, but one day some pack of real nutcases will hold the balance and we are all fawkt then.
In the meantime,

They do (greenies) and we are.............................................................

[Fun Police]

Grizzly,
It's not all National Parks I believe.

It's only a list of 80 from 800, so 10% of parks, not all of them as portrayed by the ass-hole media.

So, just limit your exposure to the other 720 if you are concerned.

[dazzler]

I saw a program about shooters shooting (der) goats in NP's out west in coordination with the park ranger.  Seemed like a good outcome.

[Kalebjarrod]

I am comfortable allowing shooters into a national park as long as the fines for abusing the privilege are huge.

Camping and shooting and fishing are fun healthy pastimes , in a respondsable method, we should be encouraging it

[briann532]

I agree with Grizzly and am concerned about it.

Other post have said that it happens in forests allready and yes it does, but there are big signs put up when its happening and permits are issued.
We stay well clear.

On the note about having more chance of being shot in the city - probably true since our pollies are so soft on crime.
Stick some freakin Viagra in the parliamentary chardonnay.............
BUT - I also know that while statistics may be low, I don't want me or my family to be one.

Remember that every now and then people win lotto too...............
Just because its a slim chance doesn't mean it wont happen.

Just ask my old mate Murphy :'( :'( :'(

Now I think this thread may turn south quite quickly as its politically orientated, but Grizzly's sharing his concerns and I support him for doing that, and support his thoughts because I agree.
I respect all other opinions, but ask for the same respect.

One thing I think we can all truly agree on, is that the people running this joint need to go walkabout for a while.
I hear Siberia is nice this time of year!!!!

Brian

[muttang]

Please correct me if I am wrong... Hunters are not allowed into National Parks.... They are only allowed in NSW State Forests or particular Crown Land areas (this was the case when I loved in NSW and was able to shoot in the forest)... If you are that worried about venturing into these areas, become familiar with the game council website.... You might actually learn a thing or two or see it from a different point of view.

While there will most likely be illegal hunters in all types of forestry, I am sure we all want to get rid of these types of hunter as they tarnish every other hunter who does the right thing.

[Chesapeake]

I have legally hunted deer in national parks in the Victorian high country for many years,and in all the time I did,can honestly say that I never crossed paths with anyone that was'nt there to hunt deer.Once you remove the emotive  boy scout thing,at the end of the day,it is usually the government utilising hunters to control an animal that they don't want in their park.Who else is going to do it for what a recreational hunter will?

[Eamonn]

... And shooting of feral species has been allowed in NSW state forests for the past several years and administered by a permit system, yet forests aren't knee deep in the bodies of bush walkers, 4wheel drivers and forest workers. Deer have been hunted in Vic National parks with no incidents that I have heard about.

As for Scouts in the bush, Ive been on hikes with scouts and any game animal within a grid square has cleared out because they are a bunch of rowdy little buggers!

I think you have more chance of being hit by a stray bullet in the city than you do in the bush.

X2

[gronk]

I have more of a problem with the way they sold out to the shooters.....just so they could then sell off more of our  infrastructure.....

They have the hide to stop me collecting firewood and having a campfire.......yet they're gonna let gunners in to shoot koalas !!!!!!!

[hoytshooter]

hunt with a bow..... you dont have the worry of a bullet going miles

[GeeTee]

I have more of a problem with the way they sold out to the shooters.....just so they could then sell off more of our  infrastructure.....

They have the hide to stop me collecting firewood and having a campfire.......yet they're gonna let gunners in to shoot koalas !!!!!!!

Noooo.. the intention is to let in hunters in to shoot feral/introduced vermin such as pigs and foxes

[Jason B]

Oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo the yanks have herd that Koala's are now in our sights...................................

Not a bad looking receipe actually.........

http://knoxville.wate.com/sound_off/index.php?topic=344.0


Sorry couldn't help myself. Wont happen again.

Regards


Jas

[GU_Thomo]

I agree with Gronk.
The bastards are going to sell off more of our assets.
Governments of both political persuasions are addicted to our $$$$$..... a pox on both their houses.....
What they get from the sale of the electricity generators will be just wasted and they will need to increase taxes to cover the profit they used to get from producing and selling electricity.

As for the hunting in National Parks...
If they can get rid of the cats, pigs and goats they have got my support.
Perhaps they may need to open up a few of the closed tracks to improve access

Cheers
Parry

[grizzly]

Swaggers
There are some really good thoughts in the replies and as with all topics like this it is very emotive. I have to agree with some of the comments regarding my need to be a bit less emotive,(its my health and safety. I am happy to win lottery, not to be the one in 24 million of being by kill ) and it is wise to wait to see what is in the fine print, a point that seems to be missed by a few is the amount of checks and balances that are required by Parks to shoot, they should also apply to others if this goes ahead in some form ,that will sort out the chaff from the hay.
As for the "ineffective trapping" This is an area that I have seen work very effectively, for example where an entire family of 12 pigs where trapped and shot over a week ,and if they had tried to just shoot the pigs they would at best only got a couple and the rest would have taken off( this area was also close to a camping area so it was very closely controlled in regard to Park users something I doubt could be done by recreational shooters) , it is a case of being flexible enough to use the best tool for the job not a one size fits all approach, There are program's where shooting I believe is being used very effectively out west and this is a great example of right tool for the job. The other thing that has been reported is people introducing these feral animals into areas so they can hunt close to home. and this may not be a common practice but very believable.
With only about 80 parks being identified for this you would expect that Parks without walking tracks and controls such a seasonal and distance from boundaries etc.
The one thing that we have to keep in mind also is that the possibility of ever totally removing these feral species by any current methods is not realistic however with a national consistent approach we may control them using a combination of methods.
By the way Bow hunting would be a preferred method in my view ( which counts for jack all in the real world) as a tool in the box
On the political comments, I never feel comfort when we are governed by minorities or so called mandates, it all went down hill when the Democrates imploded, we need someone to keep the bastards honest.
 Grizzly