Buying shocks - feedback on the bilsteins

[Nutto]

Hi all,
Had the D-max for about 6 weeks now, and am happy with it so far.
One thing that is ordinary is the std shocks.   They must have come out of a cadilllac!   Smooth ride and all, but crap in all other facets of shock absorber duty
So, of I go to get some prices (via internet) -   usual suspects (price each)  Ironman gas start at about $100,  foam cell $150,  EFS $125, dobinsons $130, rancho $200, tough dog adjutsable $230, Bilsteins from $200.  OME must be over $200 ea if ARB sell em....

Now, if you were to ask anyone in the know what the typical top line shock brand is - hands down, Bilstein & Koni are always mentioned. in the same sentence.

So, gee I'd love a set of billies, but $800+ a set,  hmmm, shelled out enough coin lately......  Have a look at some USA sites for shocks.
Well,   long story short - have a set of 4 Bilsteins on their way here, delivered to my door, for A$385.  (They were A$270 a set to but them).   
Sorry Mr middleman, but you won't be needed in this instance.

 
Nutto

[JCOJ]

And people like Gerry Harvey complain that we buy overseas - well why wouldn't we when we get ripped off blind here.

It's cheaper to get an ARB bull bar freighted from the US than to buy it from an ARB shop here - go figure!!!

To give you an example the JK Jeep Wrangler bull bar is US$886 + US$180 freight = A$990.  Here it is $1250. 

[Marie_R]

We're also in the process of putting better suspension on the brand new D-Max before we head off onto the rough stuff.  We'd had the extra heavy duty springs made for the Rodeo but didn't get to put them on (long story, had to buy new ones in Alice Springs instead).

So now we've had them put them on the new truck with new heavy duty shocks, and the front ones are being done later this week.

When we first put the camper on it, the back was weighed down quite a bit, but with the new springs and shocks on the back, it almost looks like it's got it's back end up in the air by comparison (but measurements confirm it is actually level). 

However we left it up to our mechanic to do the work and source the parts for us, I think we've got Munro shocks at about $150 each.

[SteveandViv]

Yep, it's a new world order and they had better get used to it.

[Squalo]

Yep, it's a new world order and they had better get used to it.

Well, for as long as the favourable exhange rate persists, at least.

Hell of a good deal on those dampers... hmm...

[gronk]

 Have a look at some USA sites for shocks.
Well,   long story short - have a set of 4 Bilsteins on their way here, delivered to my door, for A$385.  (They were A$270 a set to but them).    
Sorry Mr middleman, but you won't be needed in this instance.

 
Nutto  

Hello, would you mind telling us the site ??........or a PM if you like ??

[Beaker]

Yep, it's a new world order and they had better get used to it.

Replacing a broken snatchstrap online because there is no local supplier in Alice is going to be a pain.  And what are we going to do if we need a suspension specialist to sort out a geometry problem, but there aren't any because everyone is buying stuff from the states?

I'm not criticizing anyone who buys online BTW, I buy stuff online as well, just keep in mind if everyone always buys online, businesses WILL close. A lot of Australian businesses are given their buy price for international goods from the manufacturer direct and CAN'T be cheaper - for example the US doesn't buy Petzl gear at the same price as local shops do, I'm on good terms with my local outdoor shop owner and the price I bought and posted some headlamps from the US is well under his buy price - Nikon gear is the same.


I'm no fan of Mr Harvey - but he does has a point, and we will reap what we sow. Personally I'll buy stuff online, but only if its substantially cheaper and a reasonably big ticket item - if there's only a few bucks in it, I'll support our local business. I would be pissed at missing a good trip in the future because I was waiting on some stupid $5 part to come in the post, if previously I could have driven to my local shop and bought it on the spot.


I think blaming the business itself is short sighted - there is more to it then just the local markup. JMO though.

[Nutto]

Hello, would you mind telling us the site ??........or a PM if you like ??

Email Jason Mole    sales@donssport.com

Part of www.eshocks.com website

 

[rotare]

I'm not criticizing anyone who buys online BTW, I buy stuff online as well, just keep in mind if everyone always buys online, businesses WILL close.

In any business it's very rare for the competitive environment to ever stay the same.  For a business to survive and be successful they have to be constantly adapting and evolving to these changes.

Whether it's a new competitor entering the market, new product,  changes to regulations, changes to the Australian dollar or a new way about doing business over the internet.... the market is forever changing.  Buying online and from overseas is not at all new.  Why are some retailers still surviving and enjoying growth, whilst their competitors are whinging their markets are being eroded by online sales?  I'd speculate that it's because they made significant changes (some time ago) to their business, and the way they go about their business (ie, they adapted), rather than sit on their hands and hope that people will continue to support their business "just because".

Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic to those businesses doing it tough.  But if they continue to offer the same level of service, pricing, product range, level of advertising, promotions, discounts..... well it's probably no wonder they're struggling IMO.

I'm no fan of Mr Harvey - but he does has a point, and we will reap what we sow. Personally I'll buy stuff online, but only if its substantially cheaper and a reasonably big ticket item - if there's only a few bucks in it, I'll support our local business.

Yep, agree with you on that one.

[Redback]

These guys are good as well so I've been told, these 2 places (eshock)are very popular in the Landy faternity.

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/

Baz.

[albany_nomads]

Have to agree with Beakers comments....I too buy on-line,... generally because I cant get that product in Albany WA ,and i would have to get a local supplier then to bring it in as a special order which would cost me an arm and a leg... so I may as well get it in myself...BUT if a local business supplies the goods I'm chasing then I purchase locally ..your town/community is only as vibrant and healthy as its business's and people....Just my thoughts...I would hate to see my community die..

[dallp]

I always give the local the chance to compete.

You would be surprised how well they can do when provided with proof of availability and price elsewhere.

If an attempt is made and the difference is not huge I will go local. If no attempt to compete I will go elsewhere.   

[Black Diamond]

Hey Nutto you thought about giving it a lift as well?

  BD

[pinko]

I would also like to "save some coin".
A complete festool 15+3 cordless drill outfit, $575 in the US $925 here in Aust.
If a hardware supplier in th US is found to have sent me the product the german parent company will cut his franchise.
Work that out?

[Nutto]

Hey Nutto you thought about giving it a lift as well?

  BD

Yep, that will happen, as the rear is quite soft also. Just the rear, as the front torsion bars on these are just as large as aftermarket and info to date from suspension gurus is that they would just tweak them up a bit once I have the gear on I need.  Even places like ARB didn't try to push aftermarkets, they also said the stock ones are HD.
Just got my set of drawers yesterday for the rear from Jim at bestoffroad. Side steps on the way (stone protection more than anything).  B/Bar coming too, as up here out west, it is fairly good to have.   So, once I have these bits in place, I will get it up off the ground a bit more. Unitl then, she's a 'low rider' 

 
nutto

[Bird]

Well,   long story short - have a set of 4 Bilsteins on their way here, delivered to my door, for A$385.  (They were A$270 a set to but them).   
Sorry Mr middleman, but you won't be needed in this instance.

How are you finding them, and how do you find the valving on them?

[Murray]

Hi all, I am just going to throw in a plug for a local guy in Brisbane and he sells Aust wide.
http://www.zordos4wdsuspension.com.au/ 
He did my springs and shocks at a great price and fitted them. Not all middle men are greedy. John works on value for money and recommendation to others.
No association with him other than one happy customer.

Murray

[Bird]

Hi all, I am just going to throw in a plug for a local guy in Brisbane and he sells Aust wide.
http://www.zordos4wdsuspension.com.au/ 
He did my springs and shocks at a great price and fitted them. Not all middle men are greedy. John works on value for money and recommendation to others.
No association with him other than one happy customer.

Murray

Yep, We are lucky to have 2 top quality blokes around.. John at Zordo's and Shane at Suspension Stuff.


Its just wading thru all the 209482049203940s of options out there...

[Nutto]

Some feedback on the billies:
They've had a good testing, as we did a 4 month stint on the road from Sept last year, covering over 20000k.
There's more on the suspension work I did in my dmax thread since posting on the billies last year
Long story short, the rears are great and made a huge difference to the setup, controlling any ass-kicking from the camper.  The unladen ride is good also, and not too harsh

The fronts, well, they were really good, valving maybe a tadd on the hard side, but really good handling characteristics.
About 3/4 wat into trip, I noticed the front was not reacting well to rougher surfaces or broken bits of road, whether dirt or bitumen,  it seemed to shudder a lot more.   Inspection led me to believe the right front shock was shot - Got 20k out of it.    I thought back to the roads & conditions I travelled, and there was nothing untoward going on there -   on the tracks, I dropped tyre pressures, and slowed down below 80 to preserve the whole rig - some places I had to 'walk' corrugations seeing as I had a jayco in tow..
Anyway, left the shock in place, and pulled both fronts out when I got home.  Sure enough, the RF was buggered, but only from the top 3-4 inches of travel from full extension.   With the LF one, I'm flat out pushing it in so that one is Ok, the the RF I could push in fairly easily only for the 3-4 inches, then it took up and the more i did it, the easier it got..
The shock is definitely the correct part number for the vehicle.  What i noticed is that the shock tops out before the suspension does, and this combined with the front being wound up 30mm (not much, just over an inch) I think the shock was working at the top end & 'topping out' on bad surfaces, causes the valving at full shock extension to fail.  The Billie is the same length as the std shock, so logic would say they maybe the shock needs to be a bit longer.  The thing is, with these IFS front ends, you can't just bang in a long travel shock in , as this then puts too much angle on the CV's....

So, there you go,  the much accalimed bilstein has failed,  and the tracks were not that bad -  The Jayco did not rattle loose anywhere, so there's proof of that
I'll have a chat to Zordo about it, and get a pair of replacement fronts from him, based on his advice as I'm running the stds up front at present and they are rubbish

 
Nutto

[dazzler]

Was it valved for australian conditions or the US?

There is a huge difference. Darren McRae from Autocraft Geelong does this revalving however I think by the time you import and get them re-valved the costs are about the same.

[Nutto]

Daz
I would assume the valving is US, as I got them direct.   I see what you are saying though
I would think there are plently of billies in Aus that were not re-valved, as I would not expect every retailer in aus selling billies would get re-valved shocks from their supplier, who would import direct.

Might call Darren out of interest to see what he does, i.e harder or softer valving.   I know the cost of rebuilding the shock is more than what I paid for them

 
nutto

[dazzler]

Yeah I would have done exactly what you did and was planning on it but on pradopoint there was quite the discussion about them.  When I was off road racing we would snap the eyes off the base on billies though this was before the dedicated big bore off road dampers like fox make etc and was pretty harsh environment.

Bugger.

[BrisVegasGolfer]

That's a bugger.  I assume you've got no warranty having bought them from the USA direct.  Good luck with whatever you replace them with. 

I still can't believe you only paid $385 for them shipped!

I'm looking at bilsteins for my IFS & IRS Pajero and the cheapest I can get them locally is about $850.  I checked eshocks and they are $600 or so (US$450 + shipping), depending on the A$ at the time...

I'm thinking I will probably get mine from Aus, despite the extra cost.  I'm planning on a couple of decent trips in the next 12 months and would like to know that my shocks are at least warrantied for the first year.

I see Lovells are doing 3 year, 70,000km warranty on their shocks, which are around the $500 mark locally.  Have you considered them? 

[Bird]

Daz
I would assume the valving is US, as I got them direct.   I see what you are saying though
I would think there are plently of billies in Aus that were not re-valved, as I would not expect every retailer in aus selling billies would get re-valved shocks from their supplier, who would import direct.

Might call Darren out of interest to see what he does, i.e harder or softer valving.   I know the cost of rebuilding the shock is more than what I paid for them

Closer to home for you, speak with Shane at Suspension Stuff.
http://www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop/
Was talking to him about Bilstiens the other night. He did say on some shocks the revalving can cost quite a bit, I think that was the Fox shocks..

[Nutto]

Yeah, re warranty, I have got it, but not locally, and not worth sending 1 shock back
I wasn't too worried about the warranty, given 1 shock cost less than $100 I was prepared to risk it, esp given the bilstein reputation
Lovells are being considered, only need a front pair.  The rear billies are fine, and I'll have one front as a spare (bit overkill for a spare ).  Interesting warranty on lovells - can't help but think the warranty might have conditions like coopers tyre warranty, such is the subjectiveness surrounding how shocks are treated??? 

 
nutto