Is getting a driving licence too easy?

[Pipeliner]

I passed my driving test (in the UK) in 1963, and as far as I can tell it was an almost identical test to the ones they have these days - stop and start both on the flat and on hills, 3-point turn, reverse park, emergency stop, obey road signs, give clear signals (I had to use hand signals - you get fined for doing that these days!).

The point I want to make is that the road conditions are very different these days to what they were in 1963, coupled with the fact that very few 17 year olds could afford a car that went more than 80-90kph flat out, and I think that the way we are assessed as to our ability to drive on the road without being a menace to ourselves and everyone else should change (become more restrictive) to match the changes in traffic.  Too many people seem to think that obtaining a driving licence is a right rather than a privilege.

I've been driving all around the world for 47 years and I am still capable of scaring myself sh*tl*ss on occasions by a momentary lapse of concentration, so when I see young (and not so young) drivers weaving in and out of traffic, accelerating and braking hard, sqealing their tyres and generally behaving as though their car was a toy rather than a ton and a half of lethal metal, I am astonished at the relatively low fatality statistics.  Let's make a driving licence harder to get and easier to lose - then maybe the accident rate will come down.

[GSK33]

Short answer - YES. Minimum requirement should be a 20 question test when you renew your licence also to keep up to date with the road rules.
Cheers
Geoff

[Chippy76]

And a compulsory defensive driver course, and a seperate licence to tow a trailer!

Cheers Chippy

[NewcastleKnight]

Nothing like the older generation thinking that younger generation have it easy.....lol

Give me a break, people of all generations do stupid things on the road, why not make it compulsory for people over 40 to be retested they might be getting a bit dottery after all.

Licenses are harder to get today then they previously were and they are also much easier to loose as well.

If you have the propensity examine the road stats and then work whether proportionally, taking into account population increases etc are they  any worse now then they say 20 years ago? I would be interested to know.

[NewcastleKnight]

Short answer - YES. Minimum requirement should be a 20 question test when you renew your licence also to keep up to date with the road rules.
Cheers
Geoff

Now that makes sense and recognizes it's not all about young people.

[baldheadedgit]

Wish there was a simple answer.... in this ever changing world, i doubt there will ever be a simple solution to it.
Cars change, people change the road conditions change...
I remember being a passenger in a car as a kid, doing about 30 mile an hour in the country lanes back home,, and there so tight and blind,,,, i Shit myself,,,,
now i sit on the mtrways here and as a passenger fall asleep while the cars doing 120 klm hour...?

[Greydemon]

I don't know what it is like over East but it is not so easy over here in WA. My daughter had to do a written test to get her L plates. She then has to learn to drive (part Dad, part Instructor) and pass the practical driving test. She then has to drive for 6 months, for a minimum of 75 hours, accompanied by someone who has had a full  licence for at least four years, and keep a log book. She then has to drive on red P plates for six months (can't drive after midnight) and green P plates for 18 months.  No alcohol at all while on either P plate.

This has  toughened up fairly recently, her friend who started the process a bit before her only has to do 25 hrs on log book, with no time requirement (we got one of my older daughters through that in just over a week as we were going awway and she needed transport).

Seems fairly tough to me. I hear that in NZ they can reduce their time to full qualification by doing an advanced driving course - that seems like a good idea, they would learn more in a couple of days than in a few weeks pottering around.

Greydemon

[NewcastleKnight]

greydemon, similar in NSW but no practical test for L's.  They have to do 100hrs in a log book, one hour with. Driving instructor is equivalent to 3hrs without but that concession is capped to 30hrs and given that 10hrs with a driving instructor would cost you min $600 its prohibitive for families.

There is talk about parents fudging the logbook.

[Tracey family]

Nothing like the older generation thinking that younger generation have it easy.....lol

Give me a break, people of all generations do stupid things on the road, why not make it compulsory for people over 40 to be retested they might be getting a bit dottery after all.

Licenses are harder to get today then they previously were and they are also much easier to loose as well.

If you have the propensity examine the road stats and then work whether proportionally, taking into account population increases etc are they  any worse now then they say 20 years ago? I would be interested to know.

x2


Refer http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=10442.0 for our recent experience with young drivers.

I would like to see compulsory defensive driving courses introduced but disagree totally that licences are easier to get now. In NSW you have to do 120 hours of practical driving (at least 20 at night) before you can sit your driving test, followed by 3 years of provisional licencing. P platers are also subject to automatic loss of licence for any speeding offence or use of mobile phones. I would have been lucky to do 20 hours of prac before I got my licence.

[miketanja]

I don't know what it is like over East but it is not so easy over here in WA. My daughter had to do a written test to get her L plates. She then has to learn to drive (part Dad, part Instructor) and pass the practical driving test. She then has to drive for 6 months, for a minimum of 75 hours, accompanied by someone who has had a full  licence for at least four years, and keep a log book. She then has to drive on red P plates for six months (can't drive after midnight) and green P plates for 18 months.  No alcohol at all while on either P plate.

This has  toughened up fairly recently, her friend who started the process a bit before her only has to do 25 hrs on log book, with no time requirement (we got one of my older daughters through that in just over a week as we were going awway and she needed transport).

Seems fairly tough to me. I hear that in NZ they can reduce their time to full qualification by doing an advanced driving course - that seems like a good idea, they would learn more in a couple of days than in a few weeks pottering around.

Greydemon

The problem with that system is that the L and P plater pick up all the bad habits of the person they are driving with - I know I picked up bad habits from my dad - which i still do now - 12 or so years later.

The fault with the 20 questions is that most people know all of the rules - its the fact they choose to not follow them

[Juggs]

i  also think there needs to be a licence to drive anything over 2 tonne, they do not stop like a sedan does
even when empty my bt-50 and works 100 series landcruiser dont stop anywhwere as quick as the commorode wagons we have
and with th epower they now have the drive excellerate like cars

learners have to do a lot of hours on their log books now something you didnt have to do in 1933 or whenever it was
even 18 years ago i drove a car three times and passed my licence on my 4th time ever behind a steering wheel


my view is a defensive driving course and 100 hours behind the wheel first 10 and last 10 done with a driving school
that way you get some base guidlines then mum dad helps then the last 20 to iron out the bad habits mum and dad taught you

and another point for you the government will gladly over govern if you ask them too so be carefull what you ask for, it justifys there existance as the green groups so rightly use to their advantage

[Malcur]

It is definitely NOT easier now than in the past. I have been through 120 hrs learners practice for 2 sons in the past year. Youngest son has his test booked for 10 days after over a year of learning!! He has done significantly more driving than I did, and in a variety of cars (my Prado, wife's Astra plus a couple of different instructors, plus country driving, freeway driving & backstreet driving). I had my L's for 3 mths, drove dad's Falcon to school each morning, got my licence on my 17th birthday.  The test involved driving round the block in Parramatta and a reverse park.

I think professional instruction should be mandatory (perhaps subsidised by govt as its not cheap) as there is a danger that son picks up dad's bad habits. I also intend putting son through advanced driver training once he has got his licence, something I never did, but probably should have.

Mal
 

[Symon]

Getting a licence is a lot tougher these days.  Anyone who says otherwise obviously hasn't tried to get one recently, and like someone said before, it is also a lot easier to lose your licence than it was in the past.

If we want to make it tougher to get one, sure, but also make it tougher to keep it.  I also vote for people over 40 to do an annual refresher on road rules as many still don't know how to use a roundabout.  People over 60 are to do it 6 monthly, as many don't seem to remember any of the rules.

There should also be a separate classification (and exam) before you can tow a caravan, included in the testing is you need to prove that you can handle a vehicle towing a 3T caravan around at 100km/hr.  What's that? You don't feel safe towing at 100km/hr? No licence for you then!

Also make it mandatory that caravans in convoy must have a minimum of 100m between them, to allow other vehicles to pass safely.  Any closer and sensors are to provide the driver with a 500V shock between the arse cheeks. 

[davo69 and the Nurse]

There should also be a separate classification (and exam) before you can tow a caravan, included in the testing is you need to prove that you can handle a vehicle towing a 3T caravan around at 100km/hr.  What's that? You don't feel safe towing at 100km/hr? No licence for you then!

Also make it mandatory that caravans in convoy must have a minimum of 100m between them, to allow other vehicles to pass safely.  Any closer and sensors are to provide the driver with a 500V shock between the arse cheeks. 

Symon... you made me giggle over this! But it should be true... if you can't do 95-100km/hr while towing a caravan and leaving enough gap between you and next person, then you and your van shouldn't be on the road, as you are a danger to other road users.
Your sensors delivering that shocking 500v, should also kick in if your speed drops below 95km/hr or failure to provide adequate travelling distances or even a random shock just because the sensor system can!

Maybe we could enlist the assistance of Mandrake with his solar panels to provide the power! You can wire them up to the car and the sensors in the appropriate position, and I will be there to patch up their nasty butt wounds with the ever soothing deepheat!

the Nurse

[NewcastleKnight]

Now that I am 45 I have recently purchased a nice "hounds tooth" hat, I travel with my "caravan" (not that I am older I have decided that Jayco is in fact a caravan) and we will not do over 80kms per hour.  Symon, it offends me that you would suggest I should... and for the record I have forgot more about driving then you currently know....bloody younger generation......

[Heiny]

And a compulsory defensive driver course, and a seperate licence to tow a trailer!

Cheers Chippy

I totally agree with you Chippy 

[Kit_e_kat9]

Maybe, maybe not.  I think it depends on who you ask the Q too. 

Back when I got mine, I did the getting my actual licence test for my learners (the nice policeman stuffed up) which I passed and didn't need to do any Q's to do the actual licence.  Got it first try.  I clocked up a couple of thousand k's on my L plates (which we didn't actually have back then) driving from the Sunny Coast to Port Douglas and back ... and it wasn't with my parents!!!!!  I learned to drive when I was young on the farm in a flatbed truck making sure hay bails got to the elevator and up it without a hitch (dad would get pissed if he had to get down and adjust one) so had a heads up on what thing did what and how to point the bloody thing in the right direction and I know exactly where my wheels are ...

I still drive okay.  I scare myself every so often, but other drivers scare me more often than not. 

I say make them all drive up a highway to the farthest extent and back, through all weather conditions, light and dark, without their actual parents (stand in parent required by law) ... and then test them.     At least they would have a more varied experience than up to the local industrial estate on a Saturday for an hours lesson.  Each kid will be different. 

Kit_e

[McGirr]

My daughter has just got her p plates. Interesting comments so far.

She was allowed to learn in our x8 landcruiser but naturally cannot drive that on her p plates. It took us 1 year to get the 100 hours up and most of the time learnt in my lancer. She had 5 lessons and past first go.

Experience cannot be gained over night and as a parent will always be nervous when she drives by herself.

I can tell you now any one who has driven for a long time will break the rules every day. Not coming to a dead stop, not stopping on the white line at traffic lights etc.

So is getting a licence easy today NO. You can have them learn to tow a trailer, caravan what ever and they do it once then 30 years later they do it but then there is years of experience driving or they may never tow a van ever.

The only thing I would want is a defensive training course added as mentioned earlier. Its the other drivers I worry about.    

[SteveandViv]

Getting a licence is a lot tougher these days.  Anyone who says otherwise obviously hasn't tried to get one recently, and like someone said before, it is also a lot easier to lose your licence than it was in the past.

If we want to make it tougher to get one, sure, but also make it tougher to keep it.  I also vote for people over 40 to do an annual refresher on road rules as many still don't know how to use a roundabout.  People over 60 are to do it 6 monthly, as many don't seem to remember any of the rules.

There should also be a separate classification (and exam) before you can tow a caravan, included in the testing is you need to prove that you can handle a vehicle towing a 3T caravan around at 100km/hr.  What's that? You don't feel safe towing at 100km/hr? No licence for you then!

Also make it mandatory that caravans in convoy must have a minimum of 100m between them, to allow other vehicles to pass safely.  Any closer and sensors are to provide the driver with a 500V shock between the arse cheeks. 

Also make it mandatory that caravans in convoy must have a minimum of 100m between them, to allow other vehicles to pass safely.  Any closer and sensors are to provide the driver with a 500V shock between the arse cheeks.

Could this really happen.. We can only live in hope.

I had my licence at 15 In NZ. Went along, had a drive and answered some questions.. All good. Went to live in Aus and they laughed at me as I was 16.

Motorbike licence, Turned up on the 1000, copper gave me a bit of a *what happened to the 250* ...Went up the road, turned around with out putting my feet down and drove back - all good.

I don;t think the driving is so much the issue but the lack of common sense seems to have gone.. We only went mad on the stocks banks of the gorges around Christchurch, would only kill our selves..

[NandK]

The simplest solution is that here in Vic your licence is valid for a maximum of 10 years, so you have to resit the test every 10 years (5 years after the age of 60).

How many of us could walk into vic roads and pass first go??

How many people do you see not able to reverse park, most are not the young.

As was mentioned in the original post, your licence is not a right.

I heard a wonderful response a few years ago to a question from a motor sport journalist to a world rally champion.
The question was: Do you drive at home (own country) and do you tend to speed a little considering you have no problems taking a rally car at over 200kph through the dirt tracks here??
Response: Yes I drive at home, but I don't speed. If we get caught speeding, the fine is a percentage of your income! (he was on 5+ million per year!)

If fines for offenses were ten times (15+kph over the limit), who would then speed?
Car crushing mandatory at 50kph over the limit, or the cost of the car when new, if it's not your's. Plus a fine.

If you want to get rid of the hoons, make sure they can't get cars or licences again.
Fines for driving without a licence/disqualified should be off the scale.

[jclures]

I remember seeing a report some time ago, about defensive driving courses, in the study being reported, the group who had done the course had more accidents than the group who had not done the course, they thought this was because the group who had done the course had become over confident in there ability.
If this was true then maybe driving courses is not the panacea every one thinks they could be.

[Pipeliner]

Interesting comments.

OK, so maybe in my original post I displayed my ignorance about the current driving test - the last time I had anything to do with one was when my daughters took their test around 15 years ago.  Regardless of that I still believe (and apparently, so do many others) that the skills tested for a licence are only a small part of the skills needed to be able to drive safely today.

Way back when, we learned by experience - my first lesson occurred not long after passing the test, when my father lent me his car (Morris 1100) to take some friends to the coast.  On a long straight bit of road I was trying out top speed (well, wouldn't you at 17) when I picked up a nail in a front tyre and blew it.  The next few secondswere very exciting, to say the least, but I managed to bring the car to a stop after swerving all over the road.  The road, fortunately, was empty as there was much less traffic in 1963 than there is today - if it had happened on the same road in 2011 someone would have been seriously hurt.

One problem is that cars today are a lot safer than they were 45 years ago - which means you have to be going a lot faster before they go out of control so the consequence of an accident can be far more severe.  Maybe when all non-airbag cars have been consigned to the scrap heap the death toll will come down again, but until then we are still going to see bunches of flowers tied to trees and power poles and wonder "How on earth did he/she manage to hit that?"  The answer can only be "driving too fast for the conditions" - something which can only be corrected by experience.

And certainly bad driving is not limited to the young!

[Davepatrol]

I think one of the biggest problems is that kids today are taught to pass a test, not drive a car.

[Symon]

I think one of the biggest problems is that kids today are taught to pass a test, not drive a car.

And how is that different from the 'old days'?  From talking to many of the older generation many of them didn't even do a test, they just rocked up to the cop shop and got a licence.

[toad]

  I would advocate that car drivers also complete a motor cycle licence test.
At the very least it teaches you defensive strategy, head checks (yes, actually turning your head to see what is about to overtake you), and awareness of what is actually happening around you and far ahead of you.