MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: firefox on May 27, 2015, 03:38:55 PM
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So we're heading west now, and towards darwin and then over the WA and down the coast over the next 6 months.
So the question is, have you carried one and "needed" to use it. Or didn't carry one and didn't need it, or didn't carry one but so many times did you wish had one??
We're camping about all over the place, National Parks, Free Camps etc.. We love a fire, and it would be mostly used for firewood i am betting.
We do like going offroad (nothing too crazy) and getting off the beaten track.)
Although in the past while it would have been "nice" to have one probably 10-20 times i can say we've always made do, however i've been able to find a place that had firewood.. Seems up north thats not the case and probably out west??
So would you buy one?? I'm looking at a little Stihl one at the moment..
JD
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They are a good little saw and perfect for what you would use it for. Grab a second chain and throw it in the case. Around $20.00 each for genuine. a mate has one and it worked fine so far .I use a Husky 353 bought secondhand and it is perfect for the same reason. The cost was less for the Husky and it is a stronger saw with longer bar hence why i bought it.
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When going on longer trips I do take a chainsaw - got a Stihl Miniboss...
Sometimes easier to stop along the road and cut up a small tree to gather your firewood...
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I'm not sure about all states but in Qld it's a no no to have a chainsaw in a NP so I'd be checking on that!
Have a good trip!
Steve
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Most of my trips are around the high country so I wouldn't go out without one due to fallen trees over the track. I have in the past used only a bow saw with a fair amount of success. I must admit though, once you have a chain saw, you will not regret the purchase. I've had a little Jonsered 2035 with a 16" bar for about 20 years and had a trouble free run with it. Its light and reasonably quiet compared to my brothers Stihl.
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I'm not sure about all states but in Qld it's a no no to have a chainsaw in a NP so I'd be checking on that!
Have a good trip!
Steve
Goes to show just how rediculous some laws are. What happens if a tree falls over the track and blocks your way out?
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Have a husky for the firewood runs with the trailer.
For all trips have just got a battery operated job.
Uses the same size chain as the husky [ of which I have heaps]
Not much noise, could use it in your front lawn with your neighbors not knowing.
Best of all and no fumes in the car.
5 year Warranty, 3 years on the battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm166r0X_LA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm166r0X_LA)
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Last trip up the Cape used the well worn 25 year old Sthil 009 to remove a very large tree off the Frenchmans track that we just could not drive around or over. Would have been there all day trying to do it with hand tools :'( Was also great for stopping a few kays before the popular campsites and collecting good firewood ;D
I would think that the NPWS ban applies to actually using a chainsaw in a NP, not having it locked away in a box whilst you camped there or passed through :angel: I cant say that I have ever seen Rangers :police: asking to search vehicles and trailers for saws that were not used in a NP and were kept well locked up?!
:cheers: avo
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Yep, a fallen tree can be a bugger!
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interesting about the feedback on national parks.
So the "rules" are in QLD you aren't allowed to collect firewood (chainsaw or anything) from within a national park..
At Murray Falls campground in NQ there is actually a firewood area, in which you can get out the chainsaw and actually cut some wood for a fire.
So from what i've been told by rangers and reading it's not about you aren't allowed a chainsaw, you aren't allowed to cut wood from a national park.
JD
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ive got a small stihl 170 i think. use it heaps for getting wood while camping. it will come to the cape with us.
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Most of my trips are around the high country so I wouldn't go out without one due to fallen trees over the track.
x2
Get a small Stihl or Husky and a spare bar and chain. Having a spare bar is handy if you happen to jam your saw in a log and need to cut it out. I have never done this :-[
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Yep, a Stihl 009. Goes where Canter goes when we are touring, only used for firewood and clearing tracks. Talked to a ranger up the Cape last time we were there ( we had climbed over some trees that were across the track) he was of the opinion that if you are clearing track then it was not a problem in NP and only collect fire wood in allowable area.
Dan.
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I always carry a saw because we always have a fire......it's just part of camping..
Unless it's the middle of summer, if a campfire is allowed usually dictates where we camp..
And we usually have a large fire if we have enough wood and other campers with us !!
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I only ever have a small fire (contained) so I use a ricipocating saw ,cordless, beautiful
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I did up the centre and west coast last year, if I did it again, I would carry a rechargeable chainsaw.
Although probably frowned apon in national parks, have it locked away and nobody will know., it does allow you to make firewood into sizes that meet the regulations and it shouldn't become an issue picking up wood in suitable places so it can be used later on.
We had a fire in a lot of places and picked up wood as we went, and carried a bow saw, but a chainsaw or even reciprocal saw would have made life a bit easier and made it easier to fit wood on our rack.
I would suggest anybody/everybody camping in Victoria getting to know the camp fire regulations, Fires in vic need to be under 1m including timber in the fire with big fines for non compliance.
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Definitely take one. As others have said, do yourself a big favor and get a lithium cordless one. No more smelly fuel to carry, just a bit of bar oil. They have plenty of grunt nowadays to get you through most things you'll encounter.
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I priced a Stihl mini boss today for 300 with cover etc.. Was a good deal.
Their electric was 700+ which I struggle for the $$
I figured a 300 investment and have onboard is probably worthwhile.
Just figured I had done without it for 2 years, but there has been times it would be good.
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$350, 5 year warranty and 3 year warranty on battery.
No fuel to carry/mix
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$350, 5 year warranty and 3 year warranty on battery.
No fuel to carry/mix
That's what I'm planning to go for with my next chainsaw.
At the moment I'm using a cheap Ross saw ($99). It works fine, but I like the idea of not having to carry extra fuel.
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In many parks you carnt even 'disturb' fallen timber.
Some years ago my MIL got 'chatted' for moving a fallen log
to investigate its suitability for a craft model.
The resident Jaroma Falls ranger frogmarched her off
the site. An elegant lady bought to earth, rudely.
Shad -- in Agri areas come clean leave clean
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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I priced a Stihl mini boss today for 300 with cover etc.. Was a good deal.
Their electric was 700+ which I struggle for the $$
I figured a 300 investment and have onboard is probably worthwhile.
Just figured I had done without it for 2 years, but there has been times it would be good.
If that's the 170 then just a word of warning. Mine leaks bar oil. Very, very slowly but enough to make a bit of a mess. I've tried adjusting/tightening everything to no avail. Perhaps it's just mine?
Maybe Oldmate can shed some light?
Other than that it's a little ripper for occasional use.
Steve
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If that's the 170 then just a word of warning. Mine leaks bar oil. Very, very slowly but enough to make a bit of a mess. I've tried adjusting/tightening everything to no avail. Perhaps it's just mine?
Steve
My Huskie 136 does the same...?? somehow it seems to just keep siphoning out when sitting idle..
When I remember, I just empty the fuel and oil after use..
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All saws will leak some bar oil, just store it with an old tower underneath.
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Before this thread, no
Now I do
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Just chuck a couple of rags under the saw in the case. Try and use fresh fuel!!
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All saws will leak some bar oil, just store it with an old tower underneath.
I've also got a Stihl MS 290 Farm Boss & it stays clean which makes the leaking from the 170 even more annoying but I do have lots of oily rags to wrap things in when on the beach ;D
Steve
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I will go the other way
For northern WA you wont need one it is to hot
For other locations the roadside hunt with the bow saw has always done the job
As for southern WA most of the good spots are national parks or other restricted areas so it is a bag of wood from bunnings if you want a fire
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$350, 5 year warranty and 3 year warranty on battery.
No fuel to carry/mix
How good is this thing?
Swannie
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All saws will leak some bar oil, just store it with an old tower underneath.
I do.....2 towels......but they get pretty grubby fairly quick then have to be chucked out...no way of getting rid of that oil soaked mess..
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I will go the other way
For northern WA you wont need one it is to hot
Never too hot for a fire......marshmellows, camp oven, spuds in alfoil, hillbilly hotplate.........it's just ....well....Australian !!!! :cup:
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interesting about the feedback on national parks.
So the "rules" are in QLD you aren't allowed to collect firewood (chainsaw or anything) from within a national park..
At Murray Falls campground in NQ there is actually a firewood area, in which you can get out the chainsaw and actually cut some wood for a fire.
So from what i've been told by rangers and reading it's not about you aren't allowed a chainsaw, you aren't allowed to cut wood from a national park.
JD
Exactly !
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How good is this thing?
Swannie
Am out in the scrub now. Will know soon and report back
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
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$350, 5 year warranty and 3 year warranty on battery.
No fuel to carry/mix
Where can you get this for $350, every search I bring up its up around $500
Cheers Stephen
Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2-1050F using Tapatalk
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Where can you get this for $350, every search I bring up its up around $500
Cheers Stephen
Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2-1050F using Tapatalk
Masters
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
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It all depend on if you are going to wolf Creek or not ???
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I have a Stihl 171 which I keep in the camper for "emergencies" but as others have said it is illegal to have them in NSW NP's so mine is kept in a large ammo case with the bar removed - maybe not within the wording of the law but enough hopefully to prove that I am complying with the spirit of the law - not that I have heard of the NPWS ever mounting roadblocks and checking everyone coming and going.
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I have a Stihl 171 which I keep in the camper for "emergencies" but as others have said it is illegal to have them in NSW NP's
Can anyone post a link to anywhere where it says that ?
Most nat parks don't allow their use ( or the gathering of firewood ), but don't know of anywhere where they are not even allowed in your possession ?? Not in NSW anyway...have heard in WA that the bar needs to be removed to render it inoperative ??
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National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2009
Part 3
Section 11
(1) A person must not:
(j) carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any boltcutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park,
With a clarification below of:
(5) A person does not commit an offence under subclause (1) (j) or (k) merely because the person carries or possesses any object referred to in that subclause on a road traversing a park if the person does not stop in the park.
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National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2009
Part 3
Section 11
(1) A person must not:
(j) carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any boltcutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park,
So a bow saw is out too, and a pocket knife and the butter knife for cutting your sandwiches? Or are they just talking about stuff for cutting locks?
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i reckon you could easily argue that those "cutting" devices would be for breaking into something.. i.e a car or caravan or building.
It doesn't directly call out chainsaws..
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Section 20 specifically excludes knives and other eating implements, and if I had posted the next line it states:
(k) possess or have custody of any key or other similar device that is capable of opening any lock or other device securing a gate or barricade located in a park, or
There may be some wiggle room there - as with everything it depends on the interpretation. Is it just cutting tools to cause damage to locks? - well it doesn't specifically say so IMHO it bars all cutting tools that are not specifically permitted?
Full text below:
11 Littering and damage
(1) A person must not:
(a) deposit or leave any litter in a park except in an area or receptacle provided by the park authority for that purpose, or
(b) if no area or receptacle for litter is provided by the park authority—fail to remove from the park all litter taken into or created by the person in the park, or
(c) deposit or leave any waste in a park, or
(d) deposit, discharge or leave in a park any offal, filth, dung or dead animal or any noisome, noxious, offensive or polluting substance, matter or thing, or
(e) wilfully break any article of glass, china, pottery or plastic in a park, or
(f) write or paint or otherwise mark or affix any bill, notice or advertisement on or to, or deface by painting, carving, scratching or any other means, or damage, destroy, remove or interfere with, any fixture, improvement, rock, tree, equipment, water supply or Aboriginal object in a park, or
(g) deposit, leave or abandon a vehicle or part of a vehicle in a park, or
(h) carry or possess, interfere with, dig up, cut up, collect or remove for any purpose any soil, sand, gravel, fossil, clay, rock, ochre, mineral, timber (whether or not consisting of or including dead timber), gum resin, humus or other natural substance or object in a park, whether on land or on or under water, or
(i) dam, divert or pollute the water in any waters or water tank in a park, or
(j) carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any boltcutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park, or
(k) possess or have custody of any key or other similar device that is capable of opening any lock or other device securing a gate or barricade located in a park, or
(l) discharge stormwater into a park.
Maximum penalty: 30 penalty units.
(2) A person does not commit an offence under this clause for anything done or omitted:
(a) with the consent of a park authority and in accordance with any conditions to which the consent is subject, or
(b) if the act or omission occurred in or in relation to a ski resort area in Kosciuszko National Park and was necessary for the carrying out of:
(i) development in accordance with a development consent (within the meaning of the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979), or
(ii) an activity, whether by or pursuant to an approval of a determining authority, if the determining authority has complied with Part 5 of the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979, or
(iii) a project approved under Part 3A of the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979, or
(iv) State significant infrastructure approved under Part 5.1 of the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979, or
(c) if the act or omission occurred in or in relation to a place in Kosciuszko National Park (other than a ski resort area) and was necessary for the carrying out of development in accordance with a development consent that is taken to have been granted to Snowy Hydro Limited under section 41 (4) of the Snowy Hydro Corporatisation Act 1997, or
(d) if the act or omission was authorised by or under Part 2 of the Rural Fires Act 1997, the State Emergency and Rescue Management Act 1989 or the State Emergency Service Act 1989 and was reasonably necessary in order to avoid a threat to life or property.
(3) A person does not commit an offence under subclause (1) (h) if the substance or object referred to in that paragraph:
(a) was obtained by the person from a person authorised to sell such substances or objects or from an area outside a park, or
(b) is firewood:
(i) that has been provided at established visitor use areas in the park where the burning of fires is permitted, or
(ii) that comes from deadfalls of timber, if timber is not provided at established visitor use areas in the park.
(4) However, for the avoidance of doubt, subclause (3) (b) (ii) does not permit a person to collect deadfalls of timber for firewood in contravention of a notice (as referred to in clause 4) or an oral direction (as referred to in clause 5).
(5) A person does not commit an offence under subclause (1) (j) or (k) merely because the person carries or possesses any object referred to in that subclause on a road traversing a park if the person does not stop in the park.
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i can tell you from a "legal" standpoint that if it doesn't directly state the word "CHAINSAW" and it's a common item taken camping then you would be allowed to Posses it under law. It's all about "exclusion" they would need to specifically state that it is EXCLUDED.. By default then everything else is included.. (as you can imagine that is just a legal side of things) something i've learnt alot about in the past year. :) (for all the wrong reasons!)
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Subclass 3,4,5 are all good, which means you can't collect it unless they say you can. Though no where does it specifically state you cannot carry a chainsaw.
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(l) discharge stormwater into a park.
Look out God (or Goddess depending on your persuasion)
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(l) discharge stormwater into a park.
Look out God (or Goddess depending on your persuasion)
I'll have to get guttering & a bigger water tank on the camper!
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Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??
When it says a penalty of 30 points.....what does that mean ??
Anyway ...chainsaws are go !! :cup:
Interesting story from approx 3 years ago........was camping at Jounama Creek ( I think that's in Kossie nat park ) and a bloke 20M away got the chat from a ranger for cleaning his chainsaw....said he could have fined him for having it ( or maybe he thought he was going to use it ?? )....now under the rules, he should have been able to do anything with it as long as he didn't use it....but I suppose if you see a ranger, it would be best if those sort of things weren't on show ??
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Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??
When it says a penalty of 30 points.....what does that mean ??
have seen this come up recently to
i think if you accumulate enough points you get banned or something ???
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Used to buy bags of wood for years when camping or for a fire at home.
Ended up getting a husky chainsaw 6 months ago and collect our own firewood now. So much better from a cost perspective and actually find that we collect better wood than what's in the bags.
We also carry a Fiskars axe, a blocksplitter and several wedges as well.
We go free camping as much as possible in state parks as we take our dog with us...but if we ever do camp in national parks, we'll take some wood with us and buy a couple bags on the way as well. Better to respect the rules, not use it and keep it out of sight.
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. Better to respect the rules, not use it and keep it out of sight.
Of course.....I'll cut some wood before we get into the nat park..
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Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??
When it says a penalty of 30 points.....what does that mean ??
A penalty point carries a certain dollar value, all legislation/regulations that carry a monetary penalty (have done for some years now) carry the penalty point system, apart from on the spot infringement notices that is. It saves them from having to re-write the legislation every year or so to increase the penalty for certain offences. They just increase the value of a penalty point.
Mick.
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Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??
I found the same thing initially. It's actually Part 2, Division 3, section 11 that has been quoted.
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Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??
Nope they are for all parks
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When it says a penalty of 30 points.....what does that mean ??
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cpa1999278/s17.html (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cpa1999278/s17.html)
Unless the contrary intention appears, a reference in any Act or statutory rule to a number of penalty units (whether fractional or whole) is taken to be a reference to an amount of money equal to the amount obtained by multiplying $110 by that number of penalty units.
So in NSW one penalty Unit is worth $110.00. 30 Penalty Units are then worth $3300.00
In other states the Penalty Unit may have a higher or lower value. It originally started at $100 and has basically gone up similar to CPI rates.
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i can tell you from a "legal" standpoint that if it doesn't directly state the word "CHAINSAW" and it's a common item taken camping then you would be allowed to Posses it under law. It's all about "exclusion" they would need to specifically state that it is EXCLUDED.. By default then everything else is included.. (as you can imagine that is just a legal side of things) something i've learnt alot about in the past year. :) (for all the wrong reasons!)
Sorry wrong interpretation.
The specific reg states
(j) carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any boltcutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park,
That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be. Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use. So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence.
The legal way around it of course is making application to NP applying for a permit to have chainsaw, axe etc as part of your regular camping equipment while you are touring around the countryside.
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HI Alnjan,
Apologies i didn't see where it said..
"That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be. Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use. So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence. "
Can i ask where this definition was from.. That would certainly change the meaning if that definition is in the camping act, as it specifically includes the word "Chainsaw"..
Just curious?
Cheers
JD
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A person does not commit an offence under subclause (1) (h) if the substance or object referred to in that paragraph:
(b) is firewood:
(ii) that comes from deadfalls of timber, if timber is not provided at established visitor use areas in the park.
(4) However, for the avoidance of doubt, subclause (3) (b) (ii) does not permit a person to collect deadfalls of timber for firewood in contravention of a notice (as referred to in clause 4) or an oral direction (as referred to in clause 5).
So, unless a sign says otherwise, collecting DEAD firewood is OK ??
Couldn't see any reference to OTHER cutting equipment and chainsaws etc ??
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"carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any bolt cutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park,"
I would think it reasonable to interpret this as:
spray paint -graffiti (obvious really)
bolt cutters- cutting steel (for getting into where you shouldn't be)
Oxy-acetylene equip- cutting steel (for getting into where you shouldn't be)
angle grinder- cutting steel (for getting into where you shouldn't be)
other cutting equipment- to cut steel? Or trim toe-nails? I would think the point they are making is "we don't want you to cut steel" collecting dead fall or clearing blocked tracks, maybe should be in a different section?
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Go and read the Acts Interpretation Act
Acts must be read and interpreted in the spirit in which they were written.
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How good is this thing?
Swannie
Today cut about 25 pieces of Red Gum, diameter of 10" or so.
The battery meter was still green and cutting well.
If it can do that every day will be very happy.
PS - only a 2AH battery.
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Today cut about 25 pieces of Red Gum, diameter of 10" or so.
The battery meter was still green and cutting well.
If it can do that every day will be very happy.
PS - only a 2AH battery.
How long for a recharge, do they say?
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FYI all
(http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/RovinRover/RokChainSaw_zpsqx1lzl9w.jpg) (http://s926.photobucket.com/user/RovinRover/media/RokChainSaw_zpsqx1lzl9w.jpg.html)
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For those mentioning the leaking bar oil ,
I found that after cutting and switched off if I cracked the filler for the bar oil to release any pressure that mine did not leak anywhere near the way it would if I did not . mine is a McCullough though.
Agree with the chains ..sharp chains make a HUGE difference and if you are as bad as me at sharpening just carry spares in the case :-[ :-[
Jet ;D
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NATIONAL PARKS AND WILDLIFE ACT 1974 - SECT 196
Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse
196 Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse
In any proceedings under this Act, the onus of proving that a person had a reasonable excuse or lawful excuse (as referred to in any provision of this Act or the regulations) lies with the defendant.
So although the offences mentioned above may appear to be strict liability the above defences still exist.
So if the ranger gave you a notice to appear in court you could argue that given your van is your home and the fact that the saw was contained within your home (even though it is in the park) that you had a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.There is some case law on this I cant find right now , as someone said earlier "spirit of the act" would also apply.
OBV if you had it out you'd be stuffed but i know your not like that mate so Id say based on the above you would have no issue demonstrating a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.
Jet ;D ;D
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How long for a recharge, do they say?
The 2 ah took about an hour. There is also a 4 ah which can be purchased separately
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
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HI Alnjan,
Apologies i didn't see where it said..
"That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be. Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use. So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence. "
Can i ask where this definition was from.. That would certainly change the meaning if that definition is in the camping act, as it specifically includes the word "Chainsaw"..
Just curious?
Cheers
JD
Let me try to clarify this from my above post.
(j) carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any boltcutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park
This is a cut and paste from the current National Park Regulations.
When they were amending the old Regulations, which is something that is done on a semi regular basis as deemed necessary, I remember there was a lot of talk in relation to the naming a chainsaw along with bolt cutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder but settled to have it included in 'other cutting equipment', which does include any and every cutting equipment that can be used for cutting as meant within the regulation.
Now the paragraph above, copied again here:
"That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be. Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use. So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence."
Are my comments, not part of the Regs or the Act. From a brief Dr Google search while I can not find a definition within the Act or the Regs for 'other cutting equipment', without it being written and named, a chainsaw as well as an axe, hatchet anything that cuts or can be used in the act of damaging would come under the umbrella of 'other cutting equipment'.
What I did find in my Dr Google search was the following
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/legislation/09057npwregris.pdf (http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/legislation/09057npwregris.pdf)
Relating to the proposed changes to what is now the current Regulations.
From page 19.
Clause 11(1)(k) of the existing Regulation regulates the use of cutting equipment in
parks, whereby it is a penalty notice offence to carry, possess or use equipment such
as bolt cutters, angle grinders and other cutting equipment in a park without consent.
However, the most commonly used piece of cutting equipment would be a chainsaw.
To assist in the enforcement of the Regulation, it is therefore proposed that
chainsaws also be included in the list of cutting equipment to make it clear that to
carry, possess or use chainsaws in parks without consent is an offence. Note,
however, that clause 11(5) of the proposed Regulation provides a clear defence that
a person does not commit an offence under clause 11(1)(j) of the proposed
Regulation merely because the person carries or possesses the cutting equipment,
including a chainsaw, on a road traversing a park if the person does not stop in the
park. This defence is intended for fairness and practicality and will not be altered by
the proposed amendment.
I hope that clears something up. Chainsaws are considered 'cutting equipment' and are illegal to carry, possess or use in a National Park but can be in a vehicle if on a road going through a National Park and said vehicle with chainsaw, does not stop within the said National Park.
Or get a permit from National Parks allowing you to carry and possess, NOT USE you cutting equipment in a National Park while you are touring the countryside.
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Or get a permit from National Parks allowing you to carry and possess, NOT USE you cutting equipment in a National Park while you are touring the countryside.
The above is why I stay outa NPs, albeit it is getting harder as the Green Nadzees lock more an' more of thiis Country up.
Creating a check list so you are all papered up before taking a
day or two out fairly gives me the irrits :-/
Learnt my lesson after copping a 'parking ticket' on a 40 degree day
for leaving my Tojo under a tree whilst climbing Ayers Rock.
My view is those tin gods policing this stuff need a Life :-]
Shad -- in Agri areas come clean leave clean
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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NATIONAL PARKS AND WILDLIFE ACT 1974 - SECT 196
Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse
196 Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse
In any proceedings under this Act, the onus of proving that a person had a reasonable excuse or lawful excuse (as referred to in any provision of this Act or the regulations) lies with the defendant.
So although the offences mentioned above may appear to be strict liability the above defences still exist.
So if the ranger gave you a notice to appear in court you could argue that given your van is your home and the fact that the saw was contained within your home (even though it is in the park) that you had a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.There is some case law on this I cant find right now , as someone said earlier "spirit of the act" would also apply.
OBV if you had it out you'd be stuffed but i know your not like that mate so Id say based on the above you would have no issue demonstrating a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.
Jet ;D ;D
can anyone tell me of someone they know directly, who's been pinged by a Ranger just because they were carrying a chainsaw in their vehicle / camper trailer?
I'll take a stab here and say Rangers don't give a toss if you carry them and don't use them (mine is uaually in the front box of our trailer, and been in many a Qld National Park), but if you are doing something wrong or getting lippy with a Ranger for whatever reason etc, then maybe they could whip that law out and fine you for having one. Much like when people complain about a copper fining them for something minor, it's usually related to their attitude they are giving.
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Ok
So just dug through way to much paperwork.
With everything in mind we all understand that we shouldn't have chainsaws "in use" within a national park unless it's specifically allowed.
Now in saying that the proposed changes above NEVER made it into the act. Furthermore what's interesting it is Not in any of the current fact sheets or paperwork you receive when visiting a national park. That clause above was proposed.
Now interesting I found a clause about generators not being allowed into a park, this as well was discussed but not specific in the act. With this all in mind if they tried to enforce the NO ACCESS rules for vehicles carrying these devices what about all the motor homes that have a fixed generator. Actually mine is fixed in the caravan and are so many others.
What's more interesting is some parks allow it. However it's in the similar clause to the chainsaws.
It would be interesting to actually get an authoritive answer on this. The problem I think in the end with all of this is simple. LAW requires that they notify and tell people. It's not good enough that you just expect someone has read the 100 page act, it would have to be in simple easy access terms, hence why it should be in a FAQ or visitors guide.
I've read these on the nsw national park site. It would be reasonable to expect a person visiting to read these before visiting. No where does it mention anything like this about transport. Some national parks say don't bring the devices because you can't use them.
I had an interesting chat with the head ranger of mid north Coast national parks last year about running a generator if a medical emergency arose. His response was you need to notify the ranger about the problem, however under the act (his words) they cannot stop a person with a medical condition from visiting a site.
Back to my previous statement, we don't want to be using chainsaws and generators in parks where you are not allowed to country wide. However there is nothing in any FAQ, etc saying if you carry a chainsaw or generator into a park you will be fined and removed from the park. If you use them whilst in there that's a different story.
Maybe a good email off to the head ranger would be interesting. As a community group we should ask this.
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Hey rumpig,
In regards to rangers fining for carrying one.
Rangers have no right to search your property. Well I didn't read it anywhere. My understanding is they would need to call the police.
That way if you have it stashed away then really I can't see how they would even see it.
My generator is outside my caravan and has been seen by many many Rangers, actually had discussions with rangers standing at the front of the van. Not once has anything ever been said. And other then DO NOT USE these items I cannot find anything that says we can't carry them on board.
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For a Ranger to search through your belongings to find your 'not being used in a NP' stored chainsaw and fine you, I'm tipping you've done one of the following.
1 - Been potting his missus.
2 - Run over his dog on purpose.
3 - Acting like a complete knob while staying in said NP.
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can anyone tell me of someone they know directly, who's been pinged by a Ranger just because they were carrying a chainsaw in their vehicle / camper trailer?.... [...]
Ok
So just dug through way to much paperwork.
[...]
Maybe a good email off to the head ranger would be interesting. As a community group we should ask this.
ditto.
Then we (m.swagrz) can get on with deciphering _that_
PC 'speak' :-/
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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I am not sure about National Park rules in other states but in Queensland the regs states : " Collection of firewood and the use of chainsaws are prohibited. "
I have always taken my chainsaw into national parks and on many occasions I have had the rangers come into the camp and I have never been chatted about the saw been under the camp trailer. I cut a load of fire wood outside the park boundary and rope it down to my camper on the way in.
I have done a search in the Queensland National parks regs and I can not find any mention about chainsaws not been allowed, other than the above quoted statement.
Or get a permit from National Parks allowing you to carry and possess, NOT USE you cutting equipment in a National Park while you are touring the countryside.
I have also been doing a search on both the Queensland National Parks site and the Queensland Government site and I can not find any mention of a permit allowing you to carry and possess nor could I find any mention of a clause about cutting equipment ? ??? ??? ???
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I think some of us are getting our nickers in a knot over nothing. I have just tried looking up sites for national parks in Qld, NSW, WA, SA and NT and there is no mention of any of the problems with carrying chainsaws or axes. I plan on continuing the way I have for many years. I carry an axe, may carry a chainsaw in the future, take firewood with me on a short trip, and collect it on the side of the road when I run out. Would never consider collecting it in a park. Until I know of someone first hand who has a problem with being pinged for a chainsaw in their possession I will continue with my old habits.
To me it is as someone has said here. If you follow the rules and keep a low profile there are no problems. If you have a campfire in a park keep it small and there are no dramas.
I liken it to a worry I had when we visited Cape York a couple of years ago in relation to alcohol. Had heard horror stories about fines if you take too much, but like the chainsaw I believe they are just stories.
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Yeah, whats next? Your camped in a no fishing zone whilst on an extended trip and because you have a boat, fishing rods etc with you on and in your car / camper you are going to get fined? Obviously if you went out in the boat with any kind of fishing gear in it then expect to be busted!
How far does it go? If you have some rod holders fixed to the boat then is the boat technically classed as fishing equipment too?
Many times I have cut up timber outside a NP, taken it in and had rangers checking camp permits etc, seen the cut timber and haven't even said anything at all. Naturally, the saw has been locked away the whole time we are in the NP.
Again, if you display this things (chainsaws, axes, generators, fishing rods, guns etc) in places where these can not be used then expect trouble. Keep them locked away and abide by the other Park rules and your camping will be peaceful!
:cheers: avo
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We carry a saw at all times and especially in the Vic high country. Have got us out of trouble many times, also helped to cook the occasional roast dinner. Common sense guys, all Parks people I have come across have never had a problem.
GG
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<duggie wrote, in part> I am not sure about National Park rules in other states but in Queensland the regs states : " Collection of firewood and the use of chainsaws are prohibited. "
[....]
... an' no fire pits, eh?
Like, kitchen duty only?
[quote name="shadmorgon" post=727218 timestamp=1432933651]
Or get a permit from National Parks allowing you to carry and possess, NOT USE you cutting equipment in a National Park while you are touring the countryside.
[/quote]
/cough
SHAD nebba dun ryt'd nuffin bowd dat, brutha ;-/
Far as I am aware you can carry what you like in QLD... just doan get caught using it or been seen (interpreted as) as having used it.
Like lures on fishing rods, and c'saw dust beside the firehole.
Private or State Lands I get me own wood offsite and usually stuff
that does not grow where I am headed...saves a lot of argument
from those who would bother with such trivia.
Point of contention with Hewy, avatol and others is this;
Too often these days the default position by 'authorities' is that of
assumed guilt by conclusion - their judgement. Like... "you cooking fresh fish you been fishing" and "that's new cut timber your saw is warm, you cut down a tree".
These Laws are created 'cos at some point in history some d'head caused a problem for others in that space - pick anything, the trusim applies.
The mistake we make is in taking the defensive when yet another d'head stuck into a uniform chooses to ruin your day. Thankfully
they are thin on the ground... usually only in the Office issuing permits.
"Defensive" is accepting the assumption of wrong doing BEFORE
any breach is commited, like "oh faaark, carnt take the chainsaw 'cos
maybe it's not allowed".
Faaark 'em 'n' the horse they ride in on.
Australia is losing it, I tellya, losing it. The Breaker - a POM, by the way - died for nothing, likewise Peter Lalor.
I think some of us are getting our nickers in a knot over nothing. I have just tried looking up sites for national parks in Qld, NSW, WA, SA and NT and there is no mention of any of the problems with carrying chainsaws or axes. I plan on continuing the way I have for many years. I carry an axe, may carry a chainsaw in the future, take firewood with me on a short trip, and collect it on the side of the road when I run out. Would never consider collecting it in a park. Until I know of someone first hand who has a problem with being pinged for a chainsaw in their possession I will continue with my old habits.
To me it is as someone has said here. If you follow the rules and keep a low profile there are no problems. If you have a campfire in a park keep it small and there are no dramas.
I liken it to a worry I had when we visited Cape York a couple of years ago in relation to alcohol. Had heard horror stories about fines if you take too much, but like the chainsaw I believe they are just stories.
Meself I am young enough, like, to have had the experience of paying
$1:00 to 'register' my WIN 30:30 in the Ayer's Rock park.. despite me NT "licence to carry". Point being, go hard "doing the right thing".. you will send yourself spare discovering and complying with all the *crap* tin god pedants will get their rocks off on.
Too often today - as others indicate - we, the thinking traveller, hide in our foxholes believing we may be guilty of something. It does not help that the default position of Authorites ( loose use) is to play
on that guilt in putting their predisposition we (the Great Unwashed) are the bad guys.
The stuff being discussed here is largely Regulation, not Law.
Push come to shove.... quote the Magna Carta "Rights of the Freeman", it's worked for some :-)
FYI... my experience over some years of seeing "grog into the Cape" is those
idots who were swapping booze for ice. The kneejerk was to build a new Regulation. Whatever, unless you have connections the Cape is largely rooted... but still they come, in hoards. That's Okay, too ;-D
... maybe that's enough for a Sat. night rant ?
/shuckles
Shad -- in Agri areas come clean leave clean
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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What a load of Shite to a simple question by the OP
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
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"Riding the desert ship with no saddle" Couldn't have put it better myself!!!
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I am sure you have made some good points shadmorgon, I just don't seem to be able to understand them.
From the original post, I have not needed to carry a chainsaw before as we just chucked the wood collected on top of the KK. Now we have the Vista we will need to either buy bagged wood for the top of the car or cut wood to fit rack. Am looking at a battery chainsaw, or even a battery circular saw.
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I am sure you have made some good points shadmorgon, I just don't seem to be able to understand them.
From the original post, I have not needed to carry a chainsaw before as we just chucked the wood collected on top of the KK. Now we have the Vista we will need to either buy bagged wood for the top of the car or cut wood to fit rack. Am looking at a battery chainsaw, or even a battery circular saw.
I can't understand anything Tj says
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I can't understand anything Tj says
If you convert it to binary it says dot painting
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If you convert it to binary it says dot painting
Ah. Now I understand.
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I am sure you have made some good points shadmorgon, I just don't seem to be able to understand them.
From the original post, I have not needed to carry a chainsaw before as we just chucked the wood collected on top of the KK. Now we have the Vista we will need to either buy bagged wood for the top of the car or cut wood to fit rack. Am looking at a battery chainsaw, or even a battery circular saw.
And there is why many call for a unilateral education standard
in this Country. The naysayers all focused moreso on Hardly Normal and Jaded Car brochures.
At least you _tried_ reading it, bloke.
HAND
Shad -- gazing at fire dancing hopefuls in a starry sky
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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Maybe in 40 years of Secondary teaching Maths I should have spent more time on language interpretation.
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What a load of Shite to a simple question by the OP
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
... need some help setting your own sig line/file, fella?
Or are you all done (exhausted) after opening the box yer tab came in?
/snortles
Shad -- with R00T rights on a GT-N8000
-> Kangaron -- did ya unplug it, turn the power off
an' ask a teener?
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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Maybe in 40 years of Secondary teaching Maths I should have spent more time on language interpretation.
..... maybe you bored two whole generations, like.
Shad -- lookin at Boyle's Law struttin' in real time
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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Whoa....Speewa, can you ask your sister to come down off whatever she's taking !!!
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Is Shad really TJ and Mainey's love child ;D
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Is Shad really TJ and Mainey's love child ;D
That is being a bit rough ....................................................on TJ and Mainey.................................................................... and also Speewa.
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(http://mcgruff-tid.com/mcgruffstuff/sticker_images/Sticker_McGruff_Drugs01.png)
... need some help setting your own sig line/file, fella?
Or are you all done (exhausted) after opening the box yer tab came in?
/snortles
Shad -- with R00T rights on a GT-N8000
-> Kangaron -- did ya unplug it, turn the power off
an' ask a teener?
-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle
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Statement: "ridin de desert ship wif no saddle" ??? ??? ???
Interpretation: "Not driving on a full tank"
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(http://mcgruff-tid.com/mcgruffstuff/sticker_images/Sticker_McGruff_Drugs01.png)
[/quote]
:cup: :cup: :cup:
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The driveway don't go all the way to the homestead
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Again, if you display this things (chainsaws, axes, generators, fishing rods, guns etc) in places where these can not be used then expect trouble. Keep them locked away and abide by the other Park rules and your camping will be peaceful!
Precisely my thoughts. Few rangers are looking for a fight - so be sensible and you are unlikely to have an issue.
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I am sure you have made some good points shadmorgon, I just don't seem to be able to understand them.
From the original post, I have not needed to carry a chainsaw before as we just chucked the wood collected on top of the KK. Now we have the Vista we will need to either buy bagged wood for the top of the car or cut wood to fit rack. Am looking at a battery chainsaw, or even a battery circular saw.
Also consider a reciprocating cordless saw
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Just scored myself very low hours Husky 136 with an Oregon bar for $100 (including case and Chaps).
WooHoo happy with that.
Regards
Angus.
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Just scored myself very low hours Husky 136 with an Oregon bar for $100 (including case and Chaps).
WooHoo happy with that.
Regards
Angus.
That's bloody good value mate !!
Downloaded a u tube vid on tuning one and gave mine a touch up yesterday..
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Ah. Now I understand.
so do you wear chaps when you use your chainsaw oldmate?
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so do you wear chaps when you use your chainsaw oldmate?
Nup, prefer chaps to just bring me beers
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Fair enuff, not really into them either. Find it a bit easier to move around more freely without them. Except of course if it's a really cold day.
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Fair enuff, not really into them either. Find it a bit easier to move around more freely without them. Except of course if it's a really cold day.
That us true. But up here we don't really have really cold days.
I must come down and get some wood with your crew though one day.
Ps. Look at me contributing. ;D
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Really like the look of that ego chainsaw. Was thinking of getting a petrol one but might save my coin for one of them. Don't need to pull me arm socket out trying to start it. Nothing crankier than a 2stroke.
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so do you wear chaps when you use your chainsaw?
Always, I like to keep the red stuff on the inside.
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so do you wear chaps when you use your chainsaw
Chaps ??? nah, I don't even wear shoes.....it keeps your stance in the correct place, which is not in direct line with the saw cut, so any kickback ( almost zero in a baby Husky ) is not near your legs or face !!
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so do you wear chaps when you use your chainsaw?
Don't own any, come to think of it, I've never seen any, ever.
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Fair enuff, not really into them either. Find it a bit easier to move around more freely without them. Except of course if it's a really cold day.
Don't you and Oldmate put them on for Mardi Gras?!
I don't have chaps, but the modern ones are easier to move around in. The ones GG had on the first Knockwood trip are the ones to get. I don't personally use them but have no problem with those who do.
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Don't you and Oldmate put them on for Mardi Gras?!
yep, here's mine, specially designed for the cold high country climate. (No llama's were injured in the making of these)
Can't put up a pic of oldmate's (Qld warmer weather) as this is a family forum and don't want all the swmbo's passing out;D
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yeah you dont want to see my chaps.