Do you Use or *Need* a Chainsaw

[Cracka]

Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??

When it says a penalty of 30 points.....what does that mean ??

A penalty point carries a certain dollar value, all legislation/regulations that carry a monetary penalty (have done for some years now) carry the penalty point system, apart from on the spot infringement notices that is.  It saves them from having to re-write the legislation every year or so to increase the penalty for certain offences.  They just increase the value of a penalty point.

Mick.

[NewieCamper]

Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??

I found the same thing initially. It's actually Part 2, Division 3, section 11 that has been quoted.

[Ben.Archer]

Those rules were for Kosciuszko....not that I could find them.....are they similar for other parks ??

Nope they are for all parks

[alnjan]

When it says a penalty of 30 points.....what does that mean ??

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cpa1999278/s17.html

Unless the contrary intention appears, a reference in any Act or statutory rule to a number of penalty units (whether fractional or whole) is taken to be a reference to an amount of money equal to the amount obtained by multiplying $110 by that number of penalty units.

So in NSW one penalty Unit is worth $110.00.  30 Penalty Units are then worth $3300.00

In other states the Penalty Unit may have a higher or lower value.  It originally started at $100 and has basically gone up similar to CPI rates. 

[alnjan]

i can tell you from a "legal" standpoint that if it doesn't directly state the word "CHAINSAW" and it's a common item taken camping then you would be allowed to Posses it under law. It's all about "exclusion" they would need to specifically state that it is EXCLUDED.. By default then everything else is included.. (as you can imagine that is just a legal side of things) something i've learnt alot about in the past year. (for all the wrong reasons!)

Sorry wrong interpretation. 

The specific reg states

(j) carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any boltcutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park,

That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be.  Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use.  So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence. 

The legal way around it of course is making application to NP applying for a permit to have chainsaw, axe etc as part of your regular camping equipment while you are touring around the countryside. 

[firefox]

HI Alnjan,

Apologies i didn't see where it said..

"That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be.  Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use.  So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence.  "

Can i ask where this definition was from.. That would certainly change the meaning if that definition is in the camping act, as it specifically includes the word "Chainsaw"..

Just curious?
Cheers
JD

[gronk]

 A person does not commit an offence under subclause (1) (h) if the substance or object referred to in that paragraph:

(b) is firewood:

(ii) that comes from deadfalls of timber, if timber is not provided at established visitor use areas in the park.

(4) However, for the avoidance of doubt, subclause (3) (b) (ii) does not permit a person to collect deadfalls of timber for firewood in contravention of a notice (as referred to in clause 4) or an oral direction (as referred to in clause 5).


So, unless a sign says otherwise, collecting DEAD firewood is OK ??

Couldn't see any reference to OTHER cutting equipment and chainsaws etc ??

[mittens]

"carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any bolt cutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park,"
I would think it reasonable to interpret this as:
spray paint -graffiti (obvious really)
bolt cutters- cutting steel (for getting into where you shouldn't be)
Oxy-acetylene equip- cutting steel (for getting into where you shouldn't be)
angle grinder- cutting steel (for getting into where you shouldn't be)
other cutting equipment- to cut steel? Or trim toe-nails? I would think the point they are making is "we don't want you to cut steel" collecting dead fall or clearing blocked tracks, maybe should be in a different section?

[Kangaron]

Go and read the Acts Interpretation Act
Acts must be read and interpreted in the spirit in which they were written.

[Kangaron]

How good is this thing?

Swannie

Today cut about 25 pieces of Red Gum, diameter of 10" or so.
The battery meter was still green and cutting well.
If it can do that every day will be very happy.
PS - only a 2AH battery.

[Steffo1]

Today cut about 25 pieces of Red Gum, diameter of 10" or so.
The battery meter was still green and cutting well.
If it can do that every day will be very happy.
PS - only a 2AH battery.

How long for a recharge, do they say?

[aussieducker]

FYI all

[jetcrew]

For those mentioning the leaking bar oil ,

I found that after cutting and switched off  if I cracked the filler for the bar oil to release any pressure that mine did not leak anywhere near the way it would if I did not . mine is a McCullough though.

Agree with the chains ..sharp chains make a HUGE difference and if you are as bad as me at sharpening  just carry spares in the case 

Jet

[jetcrew]

NATIONAL PARKS AND WILDLIFE ACT 1974 - SECT 196

Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse
196 Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse

In any proceedings under this Act, the onus of proving that a person had a reasonable excuse or lawful excuse (as referred to in any provision of this Act or the regulations) lies with the defendant.


So although the offences mentioned above may appear to be strict liability the above defences still exist.

So if the ranger gave you a notice to appear in court you could argue that given your van is your home and the fact that the saw was contained within your home (even though it is in the park) that you had a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.There is some case law on this I cant find right now , as someone said earlier "spirit of the act" would also apply.

OBV if you had it out you'd be stuffed but i know your not like that mate so Id say based on the above you would have no issue demonstrating a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.

Jet

[Kangaron]

How long for a recharge, do they say?

The 2 ah took about an hour. There is also a 4 ah which can be purchased separately

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[alnjan]

HI Alnjan,

Apologies i didn't see where it said..

"That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be.  Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use.  So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence.  "

Can i ask where this definition was from.. That would certainly change the meaning if that definition is in the camping act, as it specifically includes the word "Chainsaw"..

Just curious?
Cheers
JD

Let me try to clarify this from my above post.

(j) carry, possess or use any spray cans of paint, or any boltcutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder or other cutting equipment in a park

This is a cut and paste from the current National Park Regulations.

When they were amending the old Regulations, which is something that is done on a semi regular basis as deemed necessary, I remember there was a lot of talk in relation to the naming a chainsaw along with bolt cutters, oxy-acetylene equipment, angle grinder but settled to have it included in 'other cutting equipment', which does include any and every cutting equipment that can be used for cutting as meant within the regulation. 

Now the paragraph above, copied again here:

"That other cutting equipment covers every other cutting equipment including chain saw, any saw, either power operated or hand saw, brush cutters, axe, whatever it may be.  Also note it is an Offence to Carry, Possess or Use.  So even tucked away in a box in the camper or vehicle you are in Possession of it and committing an Offence."

Are my comments, not part of the Regs or the Act.  From a brief Dr Google search while I can not find a definition within the Act or the Regs for 'other cutting equipment', without it being written and named, a chainsaw as well as an axe, hatchet anything that cuts or can be used in the act of damaging would come under the umbrella of 'other cutting equipment'.

What I did find in my Dr Google search was the following

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/legislation/09057npwregris.pdf

Relating to the proposed changes to what is now the current Regulations.

From page 19.

Clause 11(1)(k) of the existing Regulation regulates the use of cutting equipment in
parks, whereby it is a penalty notice offence to carry, possess or use equipment such
as bolt cutters, angle grinders and other cutting equipment in a park without consent.
However, the most commonly used piece of cutting equipment would be a chainsaw.
To assist in the enforcement of the Regulation, it is therefore proposed that
chainsaws also be included in the list of cutting equipment to make it clear that to
carry, possess or use chainsaws in parks without consent is an offence. Note,
however, that clause 11(5) of the proposed Regulation provides a clear defence that
a person does not commit an offence under clause 11(1)(j) of the proposed
Regulation merely because the person carries or possesses the cutting equipment,
including a chainsaw, on a road traversing a park if the person does not stop in the
park. This defence is intended for fairness and practicality and will not be altered by
the proposed amendment.


I hope that clears something up.   Chainsaws are considered 'cutting equipment' and are illegal to carry, possess or use in a National Park but can be in a vehicle if on a road going through a National Park and said vehicle with chainsaw, does not stop within the said National Park. 

Or get a permit from National Parks allowing you to carry and possess, NOT USE you cutting equipment in a National Park while you are touring the countryside. 

[shadmorgon]

Or get a permit from National Parks allowing you to carry and possess, NOT USE you cutting equipment in a National Park while you are touring the countryside. 

The above is why I stay outa NPs, albeit it is getting harder as the Green Nadzees lock more an' more of thiis Country up.
Creating a check list so you are all papered up before taking a
day or two out fairly gives me the irrits :-/
Learnt my lesson after copping a 'parking ticket' on a 40 degree day
for leaving my Tojo under a tree whilst climbing Ayers Rock.
My view is those tin gods policing this stuff need a Life :-]

Shad -- in Agri areas come clean leave clean



-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle

[Rumpig]

NATIONAL PARKS AND WILDLIFE ACT 1974 - SECT 196

Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse
196 Onus of proof of reasonable excuse or lawful excuse

In any proceedings under this Act, the onus of proving that a person had a reasonable excuse or lawful excuse (as referred to in any provision of this Act or the regulations) lies with the defendant.


So although the offences mentioned above may appear to be strict liability the above defences still exist.

So if the ranger gave you a notice to appear in court you could argue that given your van is your home and the fact that the saw was contained within your home (even though it is in the park) that you had a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.There is some case law on this I cant find right now , as someone said earlier "spirit of the act" would also apply.

OBV if you had it out you'd be stuffed but i know your not like that mate so Id say based on the above you would have no issue demonstrating a reasonable excuse to have the saw in your van.

Jet

can anyone tell me of someone they know directly, who's been pinged by a Ranger just because they were carrying a chainsaw in their vehicle / camper trailer?
I'll take a stab here and say Rangers don't give a toss if you carry them and don't use them (mine is uaually in the front box of our trailer, and been in many a Qld National Park), but if you are doing something wrong or getting lippy with a Ranger for whatever reason etc, then maybe they could whip that law out and fine you for having one. Much like when people complain about a copper fining them for something minor, it's usually related to their attitude they are giving.

[firefox]

Ok
So just dug through way to much paperwork.
With everything in mind we all understand that we shouldn't have chainsaws "in use" within a national park unless it's specifically allowed.

Now in saying that the proposed changes above NEVER made it into the act. Furthermore what's interesting it is Not in any of the current fact sheets or paperwork you receive when visiting a national park. That clause above was proposed.

Now interesting I found a clause about generators not being allowed into a park, this as well was discussed but not specific in the act. With this all in mind if they tried to enforce the NO ACCESS rules for vehicles carrying these devices what about all the motor homes that have a fixed generator. Actually mine is fixed in the caravan and are so many others.

What's more interesting is some parks allow it. However it's in the similar clause to the chainsaws.
It would be interesting to actually get an authoritive answer on this. The problem I think in the end with all of this is simple. LAW requires that they notify and tell people. It's not good enough that you just expect someone has read the 100 page act, it would have to be in simple easy access terms, hence why it should be in a FAQ or visitors guide.

I've read these on the nsw national park site. It would be reasonable to expect a person visiting to read these before visiting. No where does it mention anything like this about transport. Some national parks say don't bring the devices because you can't use them.

I had an interesting chat with the head ranger of mid north Coast national parks last year about running a generator if a medical emergency arose. His response was you need to notify the ranger about the problem, however under the act (his words) they cannot stop a person with a medical condition from visiting a site.

Back to my previous statement, we don't want to be using chainsaws and generators in parks where you are not allowed to country wide. However there is nothing in any FAQ, etc saying if you carry a chainsaw or generator into a park you will be fined and removed from the park. If you use them whilst in there that's a different story.

Maybe a good email off to the head ranger would be interesting. As a community group we should ask this.

[firefox]

Hey rumpig,
In regards to rangers fining for carrying one.
Rangers have no right to search your property. Well I didn't read it anywhere. My understanding is they would need to call the police.
That way if you have it stashed away then really I can't see how they would even see it.

My generator is outside my caravan and has been seen by many many Rangers, actually had discussions with rangers standing at the front of the van. Not once has anything ever been said. And other then DO NOT USE these items I cannot find anything that says we can't carry them on board.

[kylarama]

For a Ranger to search through your belongings to find your 'not being used in a NP' stored chainsaw and fine you, I'm tipping you've done one of the following.

1 - Been potting his missus.
2 - Run over his dog on purpose.
3 - Acting like a complete knob while staying in said NP.

[shadmorgon]

can anyone tell me of someone they know directly, who's been pinged by a Ranger just because they were carrying a chainsaw in their vehicle / camper trailer?.... [...]

Ok
So just dug through way to much paperwork.

[...]

Maybe a good email off to the head ranger would be interesting. As a community group we should ask this.

ditto.
Then we (m.swagrz) can get on with deciphering _that_
PC 'speak' :-/

-- ridin de desert ship wif no saddle

[duggie]

I am not sure about National Park rules in other states but in Queensland the regs states : " Collection of firewood and the use of chainsaws are prohibited. "

I have always taken my chainsaw into national parks and on many occasions I have had the rangers come into the camp and I have never been chatted about the saw been under the camp trailer. I cut a load of fire wood outside the park boundary and rope it down to my camper on the way in.

 I have done a search in the Queensland National parks regs and I can not find any mention about chainsaws not been allowed, other than the above quoted statement. 

Or get a permit from National Parks allowing you to carry and possess, NOT USE you cutting equipment in a National Park while you are touring the countryside.

I have also been doing a search on both the Queensland National Parks site and the Queensland Government site and I can not find any mention of a permit allowing you to carry and possess nor could I find any mention of  a clause about  cutting equipment ? 
 

[Hewy54]

I think some of us are getting our nickers in a knot over nothing. I have just tried looking up sites for national parks in Qld, NSW, WA, SA and NT and there is no mention of any of the problems with carrying chainsaws or axes. I plan on continuing the way I have for many years. I carry an axe, may carry a chainsaw in the future, take firewood with me on a short trip, and collect it on the side of the road when I run out. Would never consider collecting it in a park. Until I know of someone first hand who has a problem with being pinged for a chainsaw in their possession I will continue with my old habits.
To me it is as someone has said here. If you follow the rules and keep a low profile there are no problems. If you have a campfire in a park keep it small and there are no dramas.
I liken it to a worry I had when we visited Cape York a couple of years ago in relation to alcohol. Had heard horror stories about fines if you take too much, but like the chainsaw I believe they are just stories.

[avotrol]

Yeah, whats next? Your camped in a no fishing zone whilst on an extended trip and because you have a boat, fishing rods etc with you on and in your car / camper you are going to get fined? Obviously if you went out in the boat with any kind of fishing gear in it then expect to be busted!

How far does it go? If you have some rod holders fixed to the boat then is the boat technically classed as fishing equipment too?

Many times I have cut up timber outside a NP, taken it in and had rangers checking camp permits etc, seen the cut timber and haven't even said anything at all. Naturally, the saw has been locked away the whole time we are in the NP.

Again, if you display this things (chainsaws, axes, generators, fishing rods, guns etc) in places where these can not be used then expect trouble. Keep them locked away and abide by the other Park rules and your camping will be peaceful! 

  avo