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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: becboo on May 26, 2012, 08:51:21 PM
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Bloody Australian government !! What crap!
They say there is a shortage of skilled workers.
The number of people who are skilled and want to get into the mines is crazy! This really pisses me off ( sorry if I offend anyone ).
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/roy-hill-can-bring-1715-workers-from-overseas-over-next-three-years/story-e6frg9df-1226366861946 (http://m.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/roy-hill-can-bring-1715-workers-from-overseas-over-next-three-years/story-e6frg9df-1226366861946)
More like they want cheap labour!
Did I say how much it pisses me off!!
cheers
Becboo
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Yes its crazy and you think about getting unemployment down ???
Mark
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I know that I'll get howled down for this, but here goes...
Whilst so many of the unions are outraged by this, very few of the unemployed adn/or manufacturing workers about to become unemployed, are willing to move to these remote locations. The mining industry does struggle to get suitable workers in most remote locations. As a mining employee who now works on recruiting new staff, we have big problems with getting people prepared to 1. relocate. 2. do fly-in fly-out work and 3. work roster/shift work.
Until more Australians are prepared to actually put their money where their mouth is, in relation to working in these conditions, this may be the only way forward.
Just my 2c.
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Hey Crackacoldie,
Who do you work for? I will tell all the people I know who are willing to do all they can to get into the mining industry to give you a ring.
I know a lot of people who want to get into the mining industry, are willing to change location, or fly in and out but are unable to get past first base primarily because they don't have mining
experience. Some of these people are tradies who just want a go, earn some dollars for 5 years so they are set.
Give some info and I will let them know. Then Australia wins :cup:
:cheers:
Becboo
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This has been on the cards for a while now.....My wife developed the rem and benefits for a foreign owned company when they entered the mining industry and they nearly had a heart attack and when they saw them.....they even questoned all the safety stuff saying that in other countries they just pay for the funeral. Anyhow they told her that they plan to bring as much staff as possible from OS and a lot of lunches with Chris Bowen later look whats happening.
Me personally I think there is a lot of brown paper bag stuff going on as this cannot be in the benefit of Australia.
Yes they will try to employ locally first but they will offer conditions and/or wages that are below par so most Australians with experience will not apply. This is already the case with the said foreign owned company.
My wife also developed a training program for green staff for an Australian owned mining company and the numbers of applications was massive, and that's without making an effort....so there is a lot of people out there looking for the mining rainbow and a lot that don't mind the travel and rosters (I fly in and out Monday to Friday and it is hard on the family(not in mining)).
Anyhow my 2 cents worth and once they have changed the rules it will be other industries that will try and cash in....a bit like how they changed the rules for foreign ownership of property.
disclaimer the above is from my interpretation of conversations with my wife which are based on her interpretations on conversations with foreign mining company ceo's and we could of interpreted the conversation wrong...but I doubt it.
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It is about profit and maintaining it. You send my costs up, mining tax, carbon tax, I have to save somewhere else hence cheaper labour. Pretty simple really, ALP farked the golden goose on this one.
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Australians have priced themselves out of the labour market, plain and simple. You would not believe the amount of tradespeople who call me up looking for work who hang up the moment I tell them what our pay rate is.
The bubble will burst, people like Rhinehart are trying to prick it.
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It's the mining companies wanting to bring foreign labour in and trying to keep the unions out of the mining industry.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8473723/no-foreigners-in-aussie-mining-jobs-pm (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8473723/no-foreigners-in-aussie-mining-jobs-pm)
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Id love a job in the mines but wife isnt prepared to move to the middle of know where to do it. There is 2 mines within an hr but i cant seem to get a start in those either. (orange and parkes). FIFO work wouldnt bother me as i'm away in the truck 5-6 days a week anyways but the nearest major airport is 3hrs away to fly anywhere. Anyways i think the idea is stupid. Theres plenty of people on the dole that could be trained and relocated where the work is.
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I've been offered mining jobs that pay more than I'm on now, but when asked is there a guarantee there will be work in 2 years, they tend to get noncommittal, So, I'll stay where I am. It is a long way to go and a very expensive place to live.
My wife grew up in the NW WA and it would be a cold day in hell before she went back, it takes a special kind of person to work there and I think we are actually running low on them.
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It's the mining companies wanting to bring foreign labour in and trying to keep the unions out of the mining industry.
Personally I don't have a problem with that.
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This could be the end of the slowly dieing Federal Govt . Got to get somebody that wants to run the country & not just their sandcastle :'(
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It is about profit and maintaining it. You send my costs up, mining tax, carbon tax, I have to save somewhere else hence cheaper labour. Pretty simple really, ALP farked the golden goose on this one.
X2
Australians have priced themselves out of the labour market, plain and simple. You would not believe the amount of tradespeople who call me up looking for work who hang up the moment I tell them what our pay rate is.
The bubble will burst, people like Rhinehart are trying to prick it.
Yep, honestly, can we blame her? 1700 @ award rates as apposed to 1700@ 150k+/yr
Cheers!!
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http://www.news.com.au/national/as-australians-lose-jobs-gina-rinehart-imports-1700-foreign-workers/story-e6frfkvr-1226367752919
(http://www.news.com.au/national/as-australians-lose-jobs-gina-rinehart-imports-1700-foreign-workers/story-e6frfkvr-1226367752919)
(http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2012/03/08/1226293/186332-rinehart.jpg)
Personally I think this totally stinks but am interested to know what the miners think themselves... and since there are a few of you here on this Forum you may have some comments...
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Yep, honestly, can we blame her? 1700 @ award rates as apposed to 1700@ 150k+/yr
Cheers!!
I think I must be missing something. Can someone explain to me why there are lots of mines that can pay "normal" Aussie mine wage yet she can't?
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I am in two minds about this. I wouldn't mind having a crack at mine wirl myself, but like a few before me, I can't see my family agreeing to it. With unemployment at <5%, there really isn't a lot of people who could go and do the job. And please, don't bring out the old argument of "if people are on the dole they should go". Most of them are on the dole because they're useless pr1cks, some are just stuck where they are and there is no employment and they can't move for one reason or another. Mines don't want no-hopers anymore than you would want to woek with them. (Same argument against compulsory military service - why train a drongo to shoot people?).
My biggest concern is the cause of the drought, a skills shortage. If we import skilled workers we don't train or retain those skills here and the money leaves the country. We need to skill up. Apprenticeships are rare these days.
As for profitability of these companies, they are making good money from our collective resources. Bring on the mining tax and make sure the miniing companies themselves are paying tax, because to date they have not paid their share at all, with all the tax write offs and concessions that have been put in place.
This is not a Labor vs Liberal issue, is a today issue.
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They built a unit complex in Cairns with workers from overseas that the company sponsored. It brought the costs down but they still wanted a fortune for the units.
You have to look at it from 2 levels.
The worker: yes morally it's wrong but how much is a skilled worker worth. I understand the expense living in an isolated area and the time away from family but as mentioned I think the big wages are disappearing.
The employer: they are there to make money and look at all avenues that are available to them. and bringing in 1700 workers that will cost a lot less in wages then its smart business. But i would make sure they are properly trained. If it was my busness I would do the same.
Before we all scream but they make a fortune in profit. Well so do the banks and they have shifted a lot of their business off shore.
I have never worked in the mining industry but I have dealt with a lot of workers who do in the Real Estate industry.
The Govt needs to bring back the apprenticeship benefits for employers.
Just my thoughts but I know everyone will have their opinion.
Mark
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I think I must be missing something. Can someone explain to me why there are lots of mines that can pay "normal" Aussie mine wage yet she can't?
The reality is that the other mines can't either, well not in the long term. I personally am sick of hearing about the mining boom. The boom is over, have a look at commodity prices, they have been trending down for over a year. Miners are investing big now while there is still capital around, but don't expect it to last.
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There have been Aussie Labour Hire companies running recruitment adds in the Post Courier in PNG, off and on for the last 6 months, Heavy Equipment Op's that I work with are sending their CV's in. I rang the Labour Hire Co to investigate them a little further and just to make sure it all sounded legit (as some of my op's were asking me to give them a reference), their story is purely and simply that they can't get blokes with experience or desire to fill positions in WA, they were offering the work to experienced PNG nationals, they were conducting interviews in Port Moresby, those shortlisted were given the Visa application paper work etc, the recruitment guys were setting them up with accom in Aus, bank accounts etc.
So it's already happening.......
Anyway that's my 2c worth.
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My biggest concern is the cause of the drought, a skills shortage. If we import skilled workers we don't train or retain those skills here and the money leaves the country. We need to skill up. Apprenticeships are rare these days.
This is not a Labor vs Liberal issue, is a today issue.
Totally agree....... the mines only have themselves to blame, in the 12 years I worked in Aus, only at 1 mine did I see apprentices being started.... the rest only wanted tradesmen..... if we bring in tradesmen will apprenticeships cease to exist.
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The Govt needs to bring back the apprenticeship benefits for employers.
The decline started when they got rid of tech schools...
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Yeh crackacoldie feel free to tell me where it is these remote mining companies are advertising for workers as like alot of Australian workers I am also trying to get into the mines and am willing to go anywhere to work. Why make it so hard to find these jobs when apparently we have a shortage of skilled workers put it out so we can all see them.
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Yeh crackacoldie feel free to tell me where it is these remote mining companies are advertising for workers as like alot of Australian workers I am also trying to get into the mines and am willing to go anywhere to work. Why make it so hard to find these jobs when apparently we have a shortage of skilled workers put it out so we can all see them.
Click on this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mining+jobs+australia (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mining+jobs+australia)
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As for profitability of these companies, they are making good money from our collective resources. Bring on the mining tax and make sure the miniing companies themselves are paying tax, because to date they have not paid their share at all, with all the tax write offs and concessions that have been put in place.
They may not have paid much tax but they paid a fortune in royalties. This is part of the stink of the whole resources tax thing - the federal government is annoyed the states are raking it in but not getting much themselves, so lets introduce the tax and attempt to convince the states to reduce their royalties - as if that is going to happen. Also don't forget all the industries that support the mining sector, if the mines go into decline, so do they - it isn't just mining companies that make money out of what comes out of the ground.
I really can't get why people buy into this class war that the miners are cash up evil companies that are 'ripping us off of our resources'. They are out to make money like any other business and to return the profits to their shareholders. And who is the shareholders? You and I of course, our super funds, etc. If you ruin investment in this country you are really biting the hand that feeds.
Where the problem started was back in the 80's when there was a big shift in the attitude of state governments towards mining. Mines at the time were doing it tough with long term contracts and a rather flat export market. Nonetheless people like Sir Joh said to the miners "you want a mine, you build a town" which love him or hate him, was a pretty smart policy to adopt. Sometime later the policies shifted and that requirement was dropped, all of a sudden with miners attempting to cut costs they introduced the FIFO culture - and the state governments allowed them to do it.
You can't blame the miners for trying to make money, but you can blame governments for stupid policies.
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Click on this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mining+jobs+australia (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mining+jobs+australia)
http://www.seek.com.au/JobSearch?DateRange=31&SearchFrom=quick&Keywords=&industry=6058&nation=3000 (http://www.seek.com.au/JobSearch?DateRange=31&SearchFrom=quick&Keywords=&industry=6058&nation=3000)
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My hubby is a miner. Has been for a while!! He has also worked in the rural industry, been self-employed. Was away more with the rural industry than a fly in fly out job.
The good thing about employing Australian miners, even if it costs more, is they spend money in Australia, whether imported or Australian made.
Foreigners live on absolute basics and send the majority of the pay packet home to their foreign country..
Am i right or wrong? or...... is it not that black and white?
just asking.......
Bec
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If you want to get a job in the mining industry you need to show some sort of a commitment to getting yourself in the best position to be hired.
Find out the what the pre employment conditions are and do them off your own bat. Some of them may not apply (and I can only remember the QLD ones) depending on the type of mining but the ones below are the basics.
- A coal board medical
- a surface mining induction
- an underground mining induction (covers use of rebreathers etc.)
- a first aid course including CPR and use of a defibrillator.
This will necessitate spending a bit of cash but in my experience, the guys who do this have picked up jobs in the mining industry.
A trade skill and a preparedness to FIFO or move are not necessarily enough because there heaps of guys in the same boat.
Damo
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Yeh crackacoldie feel free to tell me where it is these remote mining companies are advertising for workers as like alot of Australian workers I am also trying to get into the mines and am willing to go anywhere to work. Why make it so hard to find these jobs when apparently we have a shortage of skilled workers put it out so we can all see them.
This is where we put ours.
https://riotinto.taleo.net/careersection/4/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en
Damo
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The good thing about employing Australian miners, even if it costs more, is they spend money in Australia, whether imported or Australian made.
Foreigners live on absolute basics and send the majority of the pay packet home to their foreign country..
Am i right or wrong? or...... is it not that black and white?
just asking.......
Bec
I agree with you
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I really can't get why people buy into this class war that the miners are cash up evil companies that are 'ripping us off of our resources'. They are out to make money like any other business and to return the profits to their shareholders. And who is the shareholders? You and I of course, our super funds, etc. If you ruin investment in this country you are really biting the hand that feeds.
I'll give you the tip. The rocks are ours and are an unrenewable resource that can only be sold once.
Last year, with the big two being dual listed companies, 86% of the profit (and the potential tax) went overseas.
So yeah there is a class war. The same class war that makes you pay full price for diesel (artificially inflated prices due to mining demand at that) while your taxes provide diesel fuel rebates to the tune of 4 billion for the miners.
If you are sick of the class war I am equally sick of people rushing to the defence of the poor defenceless miners.
Trust me they aren't going anywhere.
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i work in tom price for a big miner my wife works with me as well, my cusion has just moved in with us as he couldn't get a FIFO job, to cut along story short its not what you its who you know goodluck people. and yes this will make it harder for those that aren't working in the mines already.. ???
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I'll give you the tip. The rocks are ours and are an unrenewable resource that can only be sold once.
Last year, with the big two being dual listed companies, 86% of the profit (and the potential tax) went overseas.
So yeah there is a class war. The same class war that makes you pay full price for diesel (artificially inflated prices due to mining demand at that) while your taxes provide diesel fuel rebates to the tune of 4 billion for the miners.
If you are sick of the class war I am equally sick of people rushing to the defence of the poor defenceless miners.
Trust me they aren't going anywhere.
Yes, and out of those big profits the majority of it was re-invested into major capital projects in this country. From your earlier post you work for the same company I do. I can tell you that a lot of those big projects now hang in the balance due to the uncertainty that this federal government is projecting.
Think what you like, but from what I see the big miners are not in as strong a position as what many think.
(as an aside, the price of diesel is tied to the SE Asian market price, it has little to do with the mining industry. If anything the transport industry would have a bigger impact than mines)
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Their investments only benefits the mining companies though, an they claim it all on depreciation.
I certainly don't wish to demonise the mining co's, they're not evil at all, but as above they're our collective minerals and the collective benefit is not being derived so far.
If this was, say, China, do you think their Govt would allow the importation of cheap labour from central Europe to do the work? No way! If the minerals cannot be mined economically using a majority of Australian labour then leave it in the ground until economic condition or world supply/demand mean that it is profitable to do it.
We have it. They need it.
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! If the minerals cannot be mined economically using a majority of Australian labour then leave it in the ground until economic condition or world supply/demand mean that it is profitable to do it.
We have it. They need it.
Yep big +1 no rush, oil companies are capping new finds in hard to get places all the time waiting for the price to meet cost of recovery.
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All of this is a reflection of our government and their policy on business, whether it be a large mining company or small / medium enterprise.......I have a business that employed, at its peak, 19 people. Through natural attrition I am down to 11 and soon 10. I am not replacing staff as they retire or move on. And I am proud that I have not had to sack any staff through this Sh!tfight, but I have taken on extra debt to pay wages and bills, one day hopefully my business can pay me back........but it won't be by hiring staff overseas....but if I was in a business that could I would seriously think about it.
I don't care if you arrive in my town wanting to sell cheap chinese trailers or manufacture high end campers locally, both give jobs and have a place in our economy.
Small business has felt the brunt of this governments b#llShit and large business has felt the brunt of union b#llShit............
The really bad thing is that we are on a camper trailer forum and more and more of the threads are because of politics / unions / scandals.......................
Actually....we may be the new Morgan Gallop Poll.....we are as diverse a group as possible enjoying common interests...........maybe we can get a fee out of telling them this stuff...........
Cheers Nomad, who is not sure which smiley face to use atm is.
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Seems Jetstar ate about to face FW Australia over doing something dodgy over froiegn workers
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Their investments only benefits the mining companies though, an they claim it all on depreciation.
I certainly don't wish to demonise the mining co's, they're not evil at all, but as above they're our collective minerals and the collective benefit is not being derived so far.
If this was, say, China, do you think their Govt would allow the importation of cheap labour from central Europe to do the work? No way! If the minerals cannot be mined economically using a majority of Australian labour then leave it in the ground until economic condition or world supply/demand mean that it is profitable to do it.
We have it. They need it.
China is currently buying up big on western technology. If you look just at coal alone China has more than what it needs within their own borders. The difference is they haven't been able to economically extract it. That will soon change, lessening their need for ours. Another sobering thought is that only 5% of the world's coal comes from Australia. http://www.worldcoal.org/coal/where-is-coal-found/ (http://www.worldcoal.org/coal/where-is-coal-found/)
We are in a stronger position with iron ore with 18%, but again China has much more.
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China is slowing too. As Europe and the US cool so does the manufacturing sector over there. This is another thing that needs to be addressed by the mining communities; how sustainable are they? What is being done to protect the investment made by individuals in property, most of which was purchased at premium prices.
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I agree. There is a lot of faith being put in India and other markets to replace China.
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What is being done to protect the investment made by individuals in property, most of which was purchased at premium prices.
Caveat Emptor.
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I thought the Lib/Country Party brought in Visa 457 .
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Maybe they did and it is/was an excellent way to bring in specialist skilled labour where needed i have used it for people you simply couldnt get here, BUT 1700 overseas works for a mine! Or jet star using flights to have Thai workers fly in for several shifts and fly home under different pay conditions is wrong.
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I wonder where Gina and the Australian Government could fine 1700+ people capable of working , already living in the outback with no job and on welfare that could be re/trained???
Image how that would help Australia?
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I would love to land a job in the mines. It seems to be who you know and not what you know. I went and got my coal board medical and will do my above ground generic course at my expense when I see some jobs. So far all my applications have gone unanswered. There seems to be a lot of companies out there making money off the back of the so called mining boom offering courses with inflated prices and no guarantee of a job.
So where are all these jobs? They should hire Australian first and that would solve the unemployment problem. :cheers:
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Maybe they did and it is/was an excellent way to bring in specialist skilled labour where needed i have used it for people you simply couldnt get here, BUT 1700 overseas works for a mine! Or jet star using flights to have Thai workers fly in for several shifts and fly home under different pay conditions is wrong.
For this to happen, The Richest Lady would need to follow the guidlines set out in the forms and regulation.
This Govt. seems to be about to attempt to modify the legislation so that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.
Just don't see how this Govt is being blamed for the existing problem.
This Govt. can stuff things up just as well as any other.
Legislations need to be reviewed and modified where necessary. It is impossible to bring in a perfect Legislation.
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I shared the general worry about this foreign workers plan until I saw a report in the Melbourne Herald Sun yesterday. They spoke to blokes at a Centrelink office, nearly half of whom said they preferred to stay on the dole at $244 a week rather than try for a job on a WA mine! The same report said cleaners were getting up to $2700 a week on the mines.
Faced with that attitude, it's no wonder Gina's gone for the foreign option.
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Nice picture of Australia's richest woman uoy above.
If figures recently published are correct, $52 million a day or over a million ever half hour?
A school for austistic children has closed own because they can't get $200k to stay open.
Something doesn't quite compute.
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Part one
By 2017 twiggy, gina and Palmer will have a bigger surplus in there account than the entire Australian government?..
That's too much
Part two
They put little money into family orientated affordable housing in remote areas, this isolates numerous potential Australian workers and does nothing for the growth of our regional areas.
The sad thing is BOTH sides of government are doing nothing to solve this issue
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I shared the general worry about this foreign workers plan until I saw a report in the Melbourne Herald Sun yesterday. They spoke to blokes at a Centrelink office, nearly half of whom said they preferred to stay on the dole at $244 a week rather than try for a job on a WA mine! The same report said cleaners were getting up to $2700 a week on the mines.
Faced with that attitude, it's no wonder Gina's gone for the foreign option.
The key word here is "Centrelink"
Says it all
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Some air is coming out of the bubble
http://www.theage.com.au/business/bhp-mega-projects-put-on-hold-20120529-1zhc1.html (http://www.theage.com.au/business/bhp-mega-projects-put-on-hold-20120529-1zhc1.html)
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To be fair to Gina et al, those figures quoted are about the worth of their assets, not cash coming into their pockets.
This morning on ABC radio I heard the CEO of the QLD Mining Council supporting the use of foreign labour for the building phase of new projects.
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They say that Gina could have a trillion dollars to come out of one potential new mine
That's nuts