MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: BigJules on September 20, 2011, 11:27:57 AM
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I saw this link (http://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/news/2011/camping-trailers/true-blue-campers-fight-back-26630) about a group of Australian CT manufacturers forming an industry lobby group, Australian Manufactured Camper Trailer Guild (AMCTG).
One their first items is to raise the issue of some campers apparently being passed off as Australian made when this is not the case.
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(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad169/thedevilwearsprado/worms.gif)
;D ;D ;D
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They are really feeling the pinch... The dozens of places selling "TOP QUARITY CAMPER TRAIRER" are popping up everywhere and at 3000 on ebay, you cant blame people for looking, specially the use them 2-3 times a year people. they couldnt care less about quarity controrl
I think this group are a bit late on this.
Many of the places on Ebay and elsewhere that are frogging the cheap trairer wouldnt care less what they men from S.A.U.S.A.G.E or AMCTG have to say. they are in for a quick sale and lots of plofit and peace off
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Value for money, imports win hands down.
Maybe some of these Aussie manufacturers need to pull their heads in.
The Chinese theory, little profit, sell lots! Aussie theory, make Shitloads sell a few!
IMHO
BTW i have owned both, a local and an import.
Cheers
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Yeh can of worms this one.
One side (the Chinese CT owners and importers) are going to put up a good case for what they own and what the importer is doing. Likewise the guy who spent 15k plus to buy a local made product and the local manufacturers are going to have some very valid points on their side.
I agree that the importers shouldn't be showing photos of their Aussie manufacturing workshop and saying they are made in Australia when clearly they are not.
Fair enough they may put them together in Australia and in some cases they put some bird poo weld on the draw bar to help if the bolts fail but that's hardly being 'made' in Australia.
However, Chinese CT's have a place. Sadly it is very much effecting the local industry. But it will not change and the local industry is going to have to deal with it.
I personally have looked at several of the Chinese CT's and I am first to admit some of them are border line dangerous in their manufacturing quality.
But a couple I have seen are not too bad. Sure they have limitations and the finishing off or quality control is not where it could be but there is a huge market of people who are happy to work with and accept these limitations. It only becomes a problem when the unsuspecting customer who has no real idea buys one of these 'off road' trailers and the bolts come loose and the draw bar falls off while they are on holidays! Or worse, something breaks that wasn't up to standard and someone gets hurt or killed. But Aussie standards and roadworthy or engineering checks are not my business, that's up to the bureaucrats to sort out.
I use and thrash A LOT of Chinese products and I have had a very good run with them, so given that I pick and choose the Chinese product I am going to use I have had a really good run with quality. Sure I have gone to purchase some Chinese made items and they were never going to hold up to the job so I didnt buy them, so very poor quality products are definitely out there. But the point I am making is that China DOES in some instances make very good products when they are manufacturing to a set standard.
You only have to look at how many local CT manufacturers use imported tents!! I recently had a local manufacturer bag the crap out of Chinese made products yet as it turns out they use imported tents on their locally made trailers. And going by the sales spill their tents were the best tent ever made. (it was the same style and quality tent as most of the ebay CT's use)
Is there a large well known Aussie CT manufacturer selling a good product at a very competitive price who are obviously manufacturing the trailer locally BUT using mostly Imported items to manufacture their product?? Hmmm Imported tent, stainless kitchen, hitch, water tanks, all associated accessories to do with suspension and I have to wonder if the steel is even imported?? Only putting it out there, Im not speaking factual. Just suggesting it is also a grey area when it comes to 'aussie made'
So I guess in my opinion some Chinese products are more than worthy. Just like only some Aussie made products are worthy.
The local CT industry can form as many groups as they like they will not stop the imports. Im all for them trying to regulate what can and cant be fobbed off as 'made in Australia' and for making sure our roads are safe by having a certain minimum standard for the manufacturing of trailers but Im not for an industry sooking because they can not compete.
Bit of a rant but just my opinion.
EDIT: I just read the article, they pretty much say what I was honking on about....except the part where I use some well made products from China!
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Yeh can of worms this one.
One side (the Chinese CT owners and importers) are going to put up a good case for what they own and what the importer is doing. Likewise the guy who spent 15k plus to buy a local made product and the local manufacturers are going to have some very valid points on their side.
I agree that the importers shouldn't be showing photos of their Aussie manufacturing workshop and saying they are made in Australia when clearly they are not.
Fair enough they may put them together in Australia and in some cases they put some bird poo weld on the draw bar to help if the bolts fail but that's hardly being 'made' in Australia.
However, Chinese CT's have a place. Sadly it is very much effecting the local industry. But it will not change and the local industry is going to have to deal with it.
I personally have looked at several of the Chinese CT's and I am first to admit some of them are border line dangerous in their manufacturing quality.
But a couple I have seen are not too bad. Sure they have limitations and the finishing off or quality control is not where it could be but there is a huge market of people who are happy to work with and accept these limitations. It only becomes a problem when the unsuspecting customer who has no real idea buys one of these 'off road' trailers and the bolts come loose and the draw bar falls off while they are on holidays! Or worse, something breaks that wasn't up to standard and someone gets hurt or killed. But Aussie standards and roadworthy or engineering checks are not my business, that's up to the bureaucrats to sort out.
I use and thrash A LOT of Chinese products and I have had a very good run with them, so given that I pick and choose the Chinese product I am going to use I have had a really good run with quality. Sure I have gone to purchase some Chinese made items and they were never going to hold up to the job so I didnt buy them, so very poor quality products are definitely out there. But the point I am making is that China DOES in some instances make very good products when they are manufacturing to a set standard.
You only have to look at how many local CT manufacturers use imported tents!! I recently had a local manufacturer bag the crap out of Chinese made products yet as it turns out they use imported tents on their locally made trailers. And going by the sales spill their tents were the best tent ever made. (it was the same style and quality tent as most of the ebay CT's use)
Is there a large well known Aussie CT manufacturer selling a good product at a very competitive price who are obviously manufacturing the trailer locally BUT using mostly Imported items to manufacture their product?? Hmmm Imported tent, stainless kitchen, hitch, water tanks, all associated accessories to do with suspension and I have to wonder if the steel is even imported?? Only putting it out there, Im not speaking factual. Just suggesting it is also a grey area when it comes to 'aussie made'
So I guess in my opinion some Chinese products are more than worthy. Just like only some Aussie made products are worthy.
The local CT industry can form as many groups as they like they will not stop the imports. Im all for them trying to regulate what can and cant be fobbed off as 'made in Australia' and for making sure our roads are safe by having a certain minimum standard for the manufacturing of trailers but Im not for an industry sooking because they can not compete.
I'd he happier if they worked on the quality of the imports than a label 'Aust made'..
As you said, some of them are down right dangerous..
Wheres the thread where the bloke bought one with the bolts holding on the drawbar that were finger tight. <- that there will kill people, and get all trailers in a bad light.
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There is no doubt that China does produce quality products, as well as cheap and nasty.
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I totally agree with you both. the build quality is not quite there, but in saying that nor is the price.
Lost i have just finished reading your posts about your Lifestyles CT, and i noticed the tent covers failed. id be interested to know if they were Aust or imported.
The Value for money in them i see is that for the balance of the 15K Aust made camper, that allows for a lot of mods/finishing touches. As long as you know one end of a spanner to the other the Chinese CTs arent that bad.
IMHO
Cheers
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I used to make a lot of canvas gear. Yes some items are expensive when you look at it from the outside, but you need to rationalise the costs; nobody is getting rich from selling an Aussie made camper, nobody. Keep the views rational by comparison to other industries, please don't be biased because this is your leasure hobby and a passion. Add it all up, labour costs are expensive in Australia, we want bigger wages, we will pay higher prices! This is not my view, it's real! If we had the cost sheets of a Kimberly for example, I think you'd be surprised on the costs of items on the camper and the man hours involved.
I could still compete with these importers, but truth be told I value my time over a $10 per hour wage. Add up machine servicing (interest etc if you don't own your equipment) courier cost of having materials delivered (you need 100k to keep everything in stock that everyone wants and you'll always end up with a 50m roll of material that you paid $25 per meter, that nobody wants etc) floor space, etc etc, ink for invoice printers etc, it seriously just keeps adding up. The bigger you are, the easier it is, but it can get out of control quickly too, and there's greater risk.
It's a shame, and a lot of Aussie canvas makers have supplemented with repairs of imported products. I don't do this as if I stitch one section, it simply rips next to it. This is evolution and I am not complaining my any means!
My issue is the claim of "16oz RipStop Canvas" it really bothers me to think people are getting ripped off believing this rubbish when in reality, next to Australian made canvas it is more likely closer to 8oz and is very coarse by comparison (which enables the import to hold moisture = mould).
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I used to make a lot of canvas gear. Yes some items are expensive when you look at it from the outside, but you need to rationalise the costs; nobody is getting rich from selling an Aussie made camper, nobody. Keep the views rational by comparison to other industries, please don't be biased because this is your leasure hobby and a passion. Add it all up, labour costs are expensive in Australia, we want bigger wages, we will pay higher prices! This is not my view, it's real! If we had the cost sheets of a Kimberly for example, I think you'd be surprised on the costs of items on the camper and the man hours involved.
I could still compete with these importers, but truth be told I value my time over a $10 per hour wage. Add up machine servicing (interest etc if you don't own your equipment) courier cost of having materials delivered (you need 100k to keep everything in stock that everyone wants and you'll always end up with a 50m roll of material that you paid $25 per meter, that nobody wants etc) floor space, etc etc, ink for invoice printers etc, it seriously just keeps adding up. The bigger you are, the easier it is, but it can get out of control quickly too, and there's greater risk.
It's a shame, and a lot of Aussie canvas makers have supplemented with repairs of imported products. I don't do this as if I stitch one section, it simply rips next to it. This is evolution and I am not complaining my any means!
My issue is the claim of "16oz RipStop Canvas" it really bothers me to think people are getting ripped off believing this rubbish when in reality, next to Australian made canvas it is more likely closer to 8oz and is very coarse by comparison (which enables the import to hold moisture = mould).
Very Very valid point Danbri.
i think the bigger price gap comes from the accessories. Alot of the big Aussie builders have options to upgrade, however you the imported ones have them as standard. If the Aussie manufactures were serious about slowing the growth rate down they would reduce there profits. As a camper manufacturer both here and OS they would have the exact same costs, labor, warehouse etc etc. Plus freight. in a 20ft container u can get 6 Ct's. The average cost of a camper landed Sydney port is 3800-4000. (i have looked into it)
I often see Aussie sellers offering upgrades. include a 40L fridge. BUT the price doesn't reflect that of a 40L fridge. its increased an extra 20%. so your better off going to BCF and picking one up your self. I think the CT market is becoming a "niche" market and they are charging us a premium.
Cheers
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Add it all up, labour costs are expensive in Australia, we want bigger wages, we will pay higher prices! This is not my view, it's real!
Give the man a prize.
This is why there is barely *ANY* manufacturing in Aust anymore. When things cost more, you want a bigger wage, when you have a bigger wage costs go up, etc... its a big greedy wheel.
how many people in AU would go working for what Yai We Won gets in China in a sweat shop?
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I'd he happier if they worked on the quality of the imports than a label 'Aust made'..
As you said, some of them are down right dangerous..
Wheres the thread where the bloke bought one with the bolts holding on the drawbar that were finger tight. <- that there will kill people, and get all trailers in a bad light.
Spot on Bruce, get the knobs importing them, not the makers back in China, it's the duty of the importer/distributurer to make sure the quality is there or improved it for Australian Regs and quality control.
From the ones I've checked out, it's only the top that is made in China, the only one I know of that is totally made in China, then shipped to Aust for assembly is Trak Shak, look at the $$$ they are asking for their campers ???
Baz.
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I have been looking for a CT for 6 to 12 mths and now I have the cash I am getting totally confused as what to buy and what to stay away from?????? I have checked out many on Ebay which all look really good come with everything that some of the "Aussie made" offer for roughly double the price. Now I would rather spend a few extra bucks and buy local made but the minister for finances doesn't see it that way. She looks at price first and has no concept for quality and if something needs fixing down the track then so b it........
Considering their aren't too many manufactured about in Tassie I am now looking at getting a locally built trailer and then source the best tent to fit the budget then add any mods down the track. I am no mechanic and cosmetically the Ebay CT's look good and you can see why many buy them for a once or twice a year camper.
We all know the reasons behind chinese vs aussie prices but I guess it's up to the individual as to what they want be it quality or price, sometimes you can get both sometimes not.
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...labour costs are expensive in Australia, we want bigger wages, we will pay higher prices!
and Joolia's carbon tax isn't even here...
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I have been looking for a CT for 6 to 12 mths and now I have the cash I am getting totally confused as what to buy and what to stay away from?????? I have checked out many on Ebay which all look really good come with everything that some of the "Aussie made" offer for roughly double the price. Now I would rather spend a few extra bucks and buy local made but the minister for finances doesn't see it that way. She looks at price first and has no concept for quality and if something needs fixing down the track then so b it........
Considering their aren't too many manufactured about in Tassie I am now looking at getting a locally built trailer and then source the best tent to fit the budget then add any mods down the track. I am no mechanic and cosmetically the Ebay CT's look good and you can see why many buy them for a once or twice a year camper.
We all know the reasons behind chinese vs aussie prices but I guess it's up to the individual as to what they want be it quality or price, sometimes you can get both sometimes not.
With no comment about a specific unit, if you cannot inspect it, or find a bunch of people who'll vouch for it's quality and design, don't touch it. This is where the Aussie brands are superior.
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I too have just recently joined this association and am proud to be a member. To be a member we get audited by the association to make sure that we do make our tents and trailers and if not need to prove by way of invoices that our products are made here. We also have to provide engineers drawings on our campers to make sure they comply to ADR regs etc.
I think this association is a good thing and manufacturers who miss lead the public will pay the price by the ACCC etc. Its hard for perspective buyers to make the right decision these days when purchasing a Camper Trailer as so many companies have gone off shore with trailer and tent components and quite frequently miss lead you guys when buying a camper. And a lot of companies are sending Dynaproffed Aussie made canvas overseas and getting the chinese to sew them up. We did the exercise 2 years ago and had sample tents sent over. After 3 or 4 attempts to get it right, I can say the over all quality of workmanship was pretty good. At the time when I did the math on what we were selling the savings equated to around $500000 per year (yep half a million) on our sales at the time. I decided against the off shore gear as consistency is a major issue, but the thing that stuck in my mind was "if everyone did the same....just how many people are going to loose there job"! Till today we put product over profit and some of you here might think we make a squilion $$$ but can say "NO" not the case. I rely on our good name, low profit margins with a quantity turnover to make a living. While you guys support us, we'll keep the doors open and hopefully keep making a product for all of you guys to enjoy.
Here's the can of worms !!
Chinese tents 20' container load $550 per unit delivered to our door....our zips, binding, velcroe, d-rings and eyelits cost around $450 per tent...so what are you really getting for your $$$ ?
Mass produced trailers quantity buy aussie made (done this exercise) $1700 to $2000...look ok made of black steel, furniture grade RHS and SHS steel, slipper springs, ball coupling, jerry can holder and gas ring, single pressed body kit (cheaper for no pressed ribs), chinese axles, hubs etc.
So what we end up with is a well presented package for around $2250 to $2550....sell price $3890 to $4500 (seen companies asking for $6000).......so who's really making the profits here. If I could get these margins, I would be farting $100 notes and would be too lazy to bend over and pick up $10000 if I dropped it on the ground!!
Here is another example, we sell heaps of our tents to you guys for home built trailers etc. On our 10' tent conversion which sells for $4900 complete including installation, we are flat out make $900 on it...so do the math on our margins versus the import tents...buy price $550....sell price $1700 to $3000.
So if you wanna keep yourselves employed and make sure your kids have a job one day...buy Aussie made and there's and our futures will be secure !! We can all buy off shore at a bargain price, put the effort in to fix it up the way it should have been made etc, but is this really the way you want your new camper to be and put the math into your time and the products you buy to fix it the way it should have been done in the 1st place.
When I was doing the Penrith show the other week, I went out for dinner with Kerry and Philis from Modcon Campers, they are great people who make a great product and can say good friends of mine. I said to Kerry and Phillis "the way our industry is going, if we don't jump on the band wagon and start using chinese tents or getting them made overseas, we'll probably be out on the streets in the next 3 years" After further discussion we concluded that we'll keep making our products, keep Australians employed and while we have a choice thats the way its gunna be !! We are 2 genuine companies who do what we say we do, we have both felt the squeeze over the last 3 to 4 years reduced sales from chinese products etc. BUT one thing no one can take away from us is our good names, our quality products and the level of customer service our clients expect. I know I am having a whine, but the up side is we have plenty of work on the board, am putting on more staff to cope with demand and all I can say is AUSSIE, AUSSIE AUSSIE...OI, OI, OI
Cheers
JT
P.S If you have bought a Aussie made camper and your Torneau has delaminted, your tent leaks (has it been built right) fabric has faded inside of 12 months.....all I can say "is it really made here" hence why this association will in time sort the weeds from the flowers ;D
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JT- Danbri spot on the money &god luv ya cheers Graham
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JT, i have a imported CT, Yep Black Steel, Yep Chinese Axle, etc etc.
Where are toyotas/nissans/jeeps made???? last time i checked they were not made in Aus or even from Aussie steel...............
Actually 90% of our iron ore is sent to china to build things to export, so realy we are supporting the Aussie market.
Cheers
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Aussie made
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JT, i have a imported CT, Yep Black Steel, Yep Chinese Axle, etc etc.
Where are toyotas/nissans/jeeps made???? last time i checked they were not made in Aus or even from Aussie steel...............
Actually 90% of our iron ore is sent to china to build things to export, so realy we are supporting the Aussie market.
Cheers
You know what you are right !! They all went off shore and put profits over product. Lets do vegimite, dunlop, stubbies etc all off shore and all were good aussie products. Sometimes we don't have a say, but on camper trailers we do and the guys that sell these to you guys are driving Ferrari's and Lamborgini's.
We are expanding our canvas operation just to cope with the fix ups we do on imported tents. Everyone deserves the right to go camping, but many of these "cheap imports" are costing about the same price as an aussie made camper by the time they pay someone like me to fix it up !!!
I am not bagging people for buying these products as they are made to a price and everyone deserves to go camping. All I am saying it $h!ts me when people are getting mislead on there purchase and I am in the industry and get to see the "good" the "bad" and the "ugly" when it comes to "unscrupulous salesman" and "pretend manufacturers" etc.
I drive a Toyota and I know its made overseas, but I don't have a choice on buying an aussie made fourby similar in price and similar in $$$ value, quality etc....so the "buck stops here" and just remember "you really do get what you pay for" and while aussies have a choice, support us because if you don't one day we'll become the same as the car and other industries
Cheers
JT
P.S Yes we do send our Iron Ore overseas and they send it back at about 500% profit margin attached ??? And on the steel subject, yep you guessed its all Australian made sheet and RHS we use....its tempting to buy import "massive savings" but one day my kids might want a job at there factory. so really want to make sure they have a job to go too ;D
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Your right JT, its not a go at you mate. i think the aussie indusrty is running scared from these imports.
we know there is a problem with our nation not just the CT industry wen we can import cheaper than we can produce in our own country.
As far as stell its bullShit. our ore, we export then we buy it back cheaper than we can get from bluescope.
Yep you do get what you pay for however an extra 10K for less ct is a bit hard to swallow!
Cheers
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JT, i take my hat off to you.
I understand your argument regarding misleading and deceptive conduct and rightfully, this needs to be stamped out.
The other side is about choice. Taking the misleading and deceptive conduct out of the equation, Australia and Australians have more choice than ever before. Globalisation and a free market economy creates competition (fairly or unfairly) and some consumers will look at price only, others will consider quality only and some value for money. It is anyones guess where it all ends!!
It's unfortunate that this means certain industries will collapse but new industries are born. The question is, what are these new industries and how long will it be before these new industries are copied or taken offshore?
JT and Modcon (and the like) stick it out for as long as you can - you are an inspiration.
:cheers:
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Vote 1 JT for PM :cup:
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These Importers will come and go along with all the crap that they put on shelves
but a good product will evolve and change and last for ever
you be ok Johny and they other decent builders out there :cup:
Brett
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This country was built and founded on guys like JT, it's just a shame the international market is pushing the aussie made out the door in the search for the bargain. Dollars are tight now and will get even tighter in the future as the cost of living in aus goes through the roof and this will bring the importers like those Chinese CT's into the market even further. The challenge for the industry regulators is to ensure that their is some consistency in either the product we buy or that we are well aware that we are buying an imported product not aussie made. Many of the Ebay deals quote themselves as aussie made but they just don't define what percentage. For all we know it just the wheel nuts.
Just because a product is mass manufactured in china or similar it doesn't mean it's necessarily inferior though. I was a bit of a golf nut a few years back and I recall a story where the Chinese were manufacturing a clone of $1,000 golf clubs and selling them for $250. They used one of those robot hitting machines and the dispersion rate at 275m was so marginal between the original and the clone that 99% of pro golfers would likely not tell any difference.
I guess at the end of the day it's up to each individual if they want (or can afford) to support the local manufacturers or buy imported products and spend the left overs elsewhere? We as retailers just need to have some clarity into what we are actually buying.
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JT I support you all the way. I'll put it simply, if you advertise an Aussie made product then it must be so. I know that I paid a bit more for mine and that was my choice (which I will do again at the drop of a hat) and choice is important but that choice must be able to be made HONESTLY. Keep up the production in Aus!!!!
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I drive a Toyota and I know its made overseas, but I don't have a choice on buying an aussie made fourby similar in price and similar in $$$ value, quality etc....
Not having a go - but hat brand camping fridge do you have? You mentioned things like Vegemite etc..... Dick Smith brands are Aussie made and owned... do you buy those?? Shop at IGA?? if so congratulations - you practice what you preach. Unfortunately not all of us (myself included) are so disciplined.
I can understand how frustrating it would be when you are genuinely Aussie made versus some that claim to be and you can't compete on price but it sounded like you are preaching a bit with a hint of self interest.
I have imported a few bits over the years and I am not too sure about some of the figures you quoted earlier about the price landed for tents etc... think there might be a bit of poetic license there once freight, gst, duty, port charges, customs entry and clearance fees are all added in.
At the end of the day I'm afraid the world is shrinking and as someone else mentioned while some industries will inevitably go under as they cannot compete others will spring up to replace them.
I also understand that is of little solace if your industry is one of the ones that is under threat.
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The Australian Manufacturers Camper Trailers Guild, although a little late (better late than never) will be a fantastic benefit to the whole industry. The whole of Australia can only gain from this Guild right down to the end user, to the people looking to buy, to the manufacturers, the manufacturers staff and families (job security) or even people looking to get into the CT manufacturing business (knowledge base). Who knows if we don't already we could very well end up with the best CT's in the world and start exporting the Aussie CT product all over the world.
Everyone should support the AMCTG whether you believe in the Chinese product or not as the AMCTG will ensure the evolution of the CT through knowledge and innovation for generations to come. They may even be strong enough with our support to be in a position to be able to lobby the various Govt's to our benefit for things like more free camping areas, improvements to National Parks etc again ensuring this hobby or favourite leisure of ours will be available for generations to come.
In their support I see many reasons to choose an AMCTG member when purchasing your CT or CT products and some of the benefits may end up as below -:
1 - AMCTG Members would manufacture CT's and CT products in compliance with all relevant Australian Standards.
2 - AMCTG Members would verify their CT's design performance using an accredited independent testing process.
3 - AMCTG Members provide a performance label on their products stating the products meet the relevant Australian Standards. (Note as a point of interest an Aust STD is only a minimum standard so it is better to be of a higher standard)
4 - AMCTG Members' CT's and products would require annual or biannual inspections, hopefully by an independent body such as NATA.
5 - AMCTG Members could guarantee their product against faulty workmanship and materials for a period of X years (subject to correct maintenance).
6 - AMCTG Members would conduct their business with honesty and integrity and maybe go as far as upholding the right to a fair return for goods and services supplied.
7 - AMCTG Members would support the CT industry because it is committed to:-
- Raising Standards
- Improving benefits to CT owners
Above all if using an AMCTG member when purchasing your CT of CT products it would significantly reduce the risk of purchasing the incorrect product for your application.
AMCTG Members would have access to the latest changes in any regulation or industry standards and ensure their products are fully compliant.
As you can see if we offer our support to the AMCTG, the CT industry will only improve to our benefit with better products and more Auusie jobs and maybe, oneday, a Chinese Importer may want to join, which could be OK so long as he/she meets the requirements of the AMCTG? It could be as simple as being only allowed to bring the materials and parts into the country and having them assembled in Aust so its a win/win situation with a better product that meets industry standards and still provides Aussie Jobs?
I have no affiliation with any CT manufacturers I just love getting out there with the family and going camping and hope my kids will be able to do the same with their kids.
Cheers
Wartim
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Call me cynical but the RVMAA started off somewhat similar and is now just a body with no teeth to enforce remediation on members, even Jayco pulled their membership.
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wartim - I agree with the sentiment and I think such a body would probably be great for the industry (I really hadn't given it a lot of thought prior to this) but i think a better solution to a lot of the issues such as meetings standards etc would be better fixed by having the dept of infrastructure (who oversee vehicle imports) and the RTA in nSW and similar relevant state bodies in other states actually enforce the law because at the moment it sounds like they don't.
I mean if campers (whether imported or locally made) don't meet standard they are illegal... pretty simple equation.
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Lots of illegal US import caravans being sold, especially to nomads in QLD, and the relevant authorities don't give a toss.
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No-one said it would be easy maybe the two (AMCTG and RVMAA) could join forces as there is strength in numbers?
Cheers
Wartim
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No-one said it would be easy maybe the two (AMCTG and RVMAA) could join forces as there is strength in numbers?
Like the 4wd associations? :( Hope its better than that.
I mean if campers (whether imported or locally made) don't meet standard they are illegal... pretty simple equation.
but who checks them? who tests them? Who should test/check them? Who does on the thousands of home made trailers thrown together, theres a ton of threads here with "my welding is fuqt, but Im making a trailer and hope it holds together"... What can be done?
Vicroads couldnt have given a Shit when I registered my trailer.
"does it have numbers,
"Lights work?"
"Oh it has a tent on it"
Sadly it will take a massive accident and death/s before something really happens.
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Lots of illegal US import caravans being sold, especially to nomads in QLD, and the relevant authorities don't give a toss.
What makes them illegal??
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What makes them illegal??
Exit doors on the driver's side etc. Checkout the caravanners forum, heaps on info there.
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but who checks them? who tests them? Who should test/check them? Who does on the thousands of home made trailers thrown together, theres a ton of threads here with "my welding is fuqt, but Im making a trailer and hope it holds together"... What can be done?
Vicroads couldnt have given a **** when I registered my trailer.
"does it have numbers,
"Lights work?"
"Oh it has a tent on it"
Sadly it will take a massive accident and death/s before something really happens.
Exactly my point - the law isnt being enforced - rather than some sort of association saying we meet the standards blah blah the consumer should rightfully expect that any trailer they buy meets standard.
In the old days in NSW at least any vehicle needing registratioin that currently wasnt registered had to go over the pits where RTA inspectors made sure it complied... now every fifth rego station also does blue slips and as you say the standard of inspection is obviously lacking.
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Not having a go - but hat brand camping fridge do you have? You mentioned things like Vegemite etc..... Dick Smith brands are Aussie made and owned... do you buy those?? Shop at IGA?? if so congratulations - you practice what you preach. Unfortunately not all of us (myself included) are so disciplined.
I hate to say it but as far as i know IGA is no more Australian owned than vegemite.
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As far as I know there is no quality standard requirements like there is with cars - ie Euro 5 emmissions, ancap safety ratings, etc. I think the number of campers being sold and used warrants a minimum standard of quality for the trailer as a minimum. If there was, then each "manufacturer" and "importer" must supply a trailer for testing. The car manufacturers do this. Hopefully, this would remove some of the unsafe trailers around. The trailer is the biggest safety concern to me. I was mislead into buying an imported unit - and I would say its unsafe and not fit for purpose. But there is nothing I can do as there are no standards that it fails.
I just wish I had had the money to buy a better quality unit made here!
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I hate to say it but as far as i know IGA is no more Australian owned than vegemite.
Black & Gold is not owned by an Australian company. It is owned by Australian Asia/Pacific Wholesalers Pty Ltd, which is owned by Metcash Trading Ltd (http://www.metcash.com/ - formerly known as Davids Holdings). Metcash Trading Ltd is owned by Metro Cash and Carry South Africa (http://www.metro.co.za/).
You will notice on the packaging of Black & Gold products that it does not specify the brand is Australian owned. Instead, it displays a logo featuring a kangaroo and the southern cross with the text, "Distributed by an Australian owned company". Without taking much notice of the text, one could make the assumption that the brand itself is Australian owned, but it is only their distributor, FT8 (http://www.ft8.com.au/) that is Australian owned.
It is also worth noting that IGA is owned by Metcash, therefore is not Australian owned either. Each individual supermarket, however, is independently run, but they pay IGA for their services such as use of the IGA name, advertising, etc. Also worth noting is that the IGA brand originated in USA as the Independent Grocers Alliance (hence some royalties must be paid by Metcash for the use of the IGA logo, which is identical in both countries). In Australia, however, it is known as Independent Grocers of Australia.
When comparing Black & Gold products to Woolworths' and Coles' house brands, you will often find Black & Gold's products to be Australian made, while it seems an increasing number of Coles' and Woolworths' house brands are being made overseas (e.g. frozen mixed vegetables, paracetamol, etc).
Sources:
•http://www.metcash.com/index.cfm?page_id=2109
•http://www.iga.net.au/igafresh/index.cfm?page_id=2298&TempLeve11_PageID=2298
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGA_(supermarkets)
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Grocers_of_Australia
•http://www.ft8.com.au/pdf/ft8-australian-food-distributors-and-exporters.pdf
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Metcash have just received court approval to buy Franklins, the duopoly now turns into a triopoly.
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My take on this is hopefully at the end of the day quality will win out, It does not matter weather that quality was made in china, Australia or elsewhere.
Whilst looking for my trailer I was told of a trailer for sale on the highway locally. I went to have a look at it and from about 10 feet away saw the bolts holding it together. the drawbar was bolted on with 4 galvanised m8 bolts, The suspension was the same. Everything was bolted together, It was clearly a flat pack trailer. It was cheap, It was sold by a company using the name of a small, furry Australian animal, At a glance it was as Australian as a kangaroo, Emu, A billabong or a walkabout. What scares me is someone locally has possibly bought it and is now towing this thing on the same roads with my wife and kids, It looked that dangerous to me. My comment on it was that the box of bolts would have weighed more than the rest of the trailer.
Companies like Xtrail use imported components, But seem to have some say in the quality of the product that they buy to create a value for money product at the end of the line, And admitting that imported components are used in their trailers. There are probably other manufacturers doing the same thing.
My trailer is a very used, Australian made, Quality trailer. Made 13 years ago and still going strong.
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Black & Gold is not owned by an Australian company. It is owned by Australian Asia/Pacific Wholesalers Pty Ltd, which is owned by Metcash Trading Ltd (http://www.metcash.com/ - formerly known as Davids Holdings). Metcash Trading Ltd is owned by Metro Cash and Carry South Africa (http://www.metro.co.za/).
You will notice on the packaging of Black & Gold products that it does not specify the brand is Australian owned. Instead, it displays a logo featuring a kangaroo and the southern cross with the text, "Distributed by an Australian owned company". Without taking much notice of the text, one could make the assumption that the brand itself is Australian owned, but it is only their distributor, FT8 (http://www.ft8.com.au/) that is Australian owned.
It is also worth noting that IGA is owned by Metcash, therefore is not Australian owned either. Each individual supermarket, however, is independently run, but they pay IGA for their services such as use of the IGA name, advertising, etc. Also worth noting is that the IGA brand originated in USA as the Independent Grocers Alliance (hence some royalties must be paid by Metcash for the use of the IGA logo, which is identical in both countries). In Australia, however, it is known as Independent Grocers of Australia.
When comparing Black & Gold products to Woolworths' and Coles' house brands, you will often find Black & Gold's products to be Australian made, while it seems an increasing number of Coles' and Woolworths' house brands are being made overseas (e.g. frozen mixed vegetables, paracetamol, etc).
Sources:
•http://www.metcash.com/index.cfm?page_id=2109
•http://www.iga.net.au/igafresh/index.cfm?page_id=2298&TempLeve11_PageID=2298
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGA_(supermarkets)
•http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Grocers_of_Australia
•http://www.ft8.com.au/pdf/ft8-australian-food-distributors-and-exporters.pdf
My source is a little closer to the front end business. Any Ritchies IGA (which is most of them)as far as I know is also owned by Metcash.
Metcash have just received court approval to buy Franklins, the duopoly now turns into a triopoly.
That one is going to be very interesting from what I've heard. ;D ;D
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My source is a little closer to the front end business. Any Ritchies IGA (which is most of them)as far as I know is also owned by Metcash.
yea that was 2 seconds on google.. and few years old. but gets the idea.
Anyway why is it the Gov not onto this ? is there someone you can report companies that say "Made in AU" and they arent? Nothing comes up in google obviously
http://www.australianmade.com.au/
I thought the Aust Made site would have had a link to report those not made in AU
http://www.australianmade.com.au/just-straps-2 Aussie made snatch straps :)
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http://www.australianmade.com.au/just-straps-2 Aussie made snatch straps :)
I have one of their snatch straps :)
And I have several ARB products....all of which are made in China!
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I hate to say it but as far as i know IGA is no more Australian owned than vegemite.
IGA (Independent Grocers Alliance) was founded in America in 1926 and represents an alliance between wholesalers, retailers and manufacturers. IGA became the vehicle for protecting and strengthening the relationship of the three players against the growth of the chain stores.
Today IGA is the world’s largest voluntary supermarket network with sales of more than $22 billion (Euro Dollars) annually with over 4,000 independent stores in some 41 different countries.
IGA in Australia
IGA was brought to Australia by Davids Holdings in 1988 when 10 stores initially became members of IGA. In more recent times independent retailers have come to realise the benefits of uniting together under one brand, and today there are over 1000 IGA stores in the country. Davids itself has changed its name to Metcash Trading Limited and the distribution side of the business changed to IGA Distribution.
IGA stands for ’Independent Grocers of Australia’.
The IGA logo represents a standard of consistency of operation in the industry, and more importantly to IGA customers. So while the offer may differ in each of the three channels, and the stores may be of different sizes, IGA customers can be assured that they are shopping IGA, and are enabling local Australian business to continue to be active in the communities that they serve.
Whilst IGA originates from OS at least they are supporting local business and communities, more than can be said for Coles and Woolworths.
But we shop at DRAKE FOODLAND, a true Australian business thats taking on the two supermarket giants mentioned above :cup:
In 1965, Roger Drake commenced his supermarket retailing career with the Coles Myer Group. In 1974, after 9 years at Coles Myer, Roger established his own business by purchasing his first store for AU$29,000 in Mitcham, a southern suburb of Adelaide, South Australia – a three-lane supermarket called Jack & Jill’s with 4 employees. After three successful years, Roger opened a larger supermarket at Torrensville, in the western suburbs of Adelaide. The company has grown opportunistically since then and now owns 48 stores throughout South Australia and Queensland, with a turnover in excess of $800M and 4500 employees nationally.
Drake Supermarkets is the largest independent grocery retailer in Australia and specialises in supermarket retailing. In addition to their supermarket stores, the company operates a liquor store, several newsagencies and a consulting service. The company also has a significant property portfolio.
The company’s strength lies in operating on the principles of a family business and supporting local manufacturers and suppliers. Roger prides himself on knowing as many of his staff as he can by name. He spends time every day out in his supermarkets, talking to staff and customers alike, and always endeavouring to improve the level of service the company provides.
Despite its expansion, the company has managed to keep its focus on the important aspects of the supermarket business – THE CUSTOMER – by always striving to provide superior customer service. This is the company's competitive edge – along with its family values and South Australian roots. One of Roger’s best-known sayings is “I am not your boss, the customer is your boss, for without the customers, none of us would have a job!”
As a first generation family business, Drake Supermarkets has achieved great success in a market dominated by two retail giants. An increased focus on staff training and development, customer service initiatives, innovation and an expanded social media presence have been among the key factors to this growth. However, Drake Supermarkets overall sales growth is the commitment to our customers, community, staff and suppliers.
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Yes I was concerned about the CTs from china. I ended up buying a 1992 Cub and fixing it up.
(looked at my mates new one and it is good)
It is funny that the industry has gone this long before this happened. I am in IT and years ago it
became not viable to be a reseller of IT equipment. This is the same now for the RV industry but
it does not mean that the industry is dead. They just have to see the new model. This is in a
service and support model and there is a good living in it. Is it different -yes
will you need to change? yes
will you you able to sit on your laurels and support one product? NO those days are gone.
Its funny RVs and campers are not that difficult, I figured out mine easy enough and an experienced person it takes
even less time. Yes its harder and you have to think (some dont think thats covered in their award wage)
If you are hungry, like a challenge and take pride in the work you do, this is not a problem you will roll with the punches
and come out a winner.
(whingers - well time for a new job)
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A very interesting topic indeed.
All I can say is competition is great but at the end of the day you get what you pay for. There are many examples of poor quality products out there and it is up to what each person wants and expects from that product. Alot of people cannot afford to pay big $$$ for items and thus will buy inferior / poor quality products.
On the subject of Chinese camper trailers yes they need to make sure they comply with a standard of safety but at the end of the day they will still be alot cheaper than the Australian made product.
The old saying " The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
Mark
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So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?
at 1/4 of the price i can buy 4 and still break even......
Cheers
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So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?
Mine can keep a manufacturing base in Australia. How's yours looking on that one?
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HA!
concidering most of the parts on yours are imported...........
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What gets my goat is when people mention Dick Smith and his good old Aussie produce...... Pity at the other 99% of tat he sells in his stores is imported!!!
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What gets my goat is when people mention Dick Smith and his good old Aussie produce...... Pity at the other 99% of tat he sells in his stores is imported!!!
Ummm Dick Smith sold his stores to Woolworths many years ago...
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Ummm Dick Smith sold his stores to Woolworths many years ago...
Oh that explains it then.......... i am sure his stores were full of Aussie only up until then :D
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95% of the stuff we use everyday is imported.
Near all bunnings stock, 99% of electrical gear, even down to the teck screws we use.
Its sad. the Aust government needs to do something to help the Aussie workers. Introducing a carbon tax will put the final nail in the coffin for a lot of Aussie industries.
You know there is something wrong when we can import, pay taxes and freight and have it landed at our door cheaper then an Australian builder can supply it. Thanks JuLIAR.
Cheers!
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So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?
at 1/4 of the price i can buy 4 and still break even......
Cheers
It's the confidence that people can take their off road camper to the cape and back with out any problems. But at the end of the day if you are happy with the camper you have bought and you can get out and explore this great country.
Every one will have an opinion on this so let's not let this thread get into a verbal stoush. We all buy what we can afford and as long as we enjoy it that's the main thing.
Mark
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A very interesting topic indeed.
All I can say is competition is great but at the end of the day you get what you pay for. There are many examples of poor quality products out there and it is up to what each person wants and expects from that product. Alot of people cannot afford to pay big $$$ for items and thus will buy inferior / poor quality products.
On the subject of Chinese camper trailers yes they need to make sure they comply with a standard of safety but at the end of the day they will still be alot cheaper than the Australian made product.
The old saying " The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
Mark
Yes you only get what you pay for... The basis is that analogy is for one local product to another... not overseas.
a ctek charger in Aus is $485
same from US $180
It is a silly myth... only applicable within a local store looking at their range of products.
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In my opinion you cannot put a price on safety therefore my logic is to pay for the quality and this should = greater safety.
A cheap imported camper to me is like driving your family around in a vehicle shod with re-mould tyres... I simply wouldn't do it for the sake of saving a few $$$.
Value is a far more complicated equation than initial purchase price, and for me I see the Aust' made quality camper trailers as terrific value when factoring in such things as after-sale back-up/service, resale, longevity, reliability, SAFETY, etc.
I can certainly appreciate that we are part of a global economy but for camper trailers it's Aussie Made all the way... For me anyway :cheers:
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Every one will have an opinion on this so let's not let this thread get into a verbal stoush. We all buy what we can afford and as long as we enjoy it that's the main thing.
Mark
All that matters, really. :cheers:
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So can any of you tell me what your campers can do that my cheaper "inferior" import cant?
...last 20yrs like many others do..
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Last 20 yrs like the others do ?? Really ?? Must be good to be able to see into the future like that !! Whats Saturdays winning Lotto numbers then eh ??? Yep we can all put Shite on the Chinese C/T and yet even our own Aussie C/T makers admit to buying components from China or even worse declaring that they drive a Foreign built vehicle aka Toyota as no suitable Aus made vehicle fits the price or the cry of "quality" ,, sorry but its time Australian manufacturing [whats left of it] moved to compete on price and service rather than their mantra of protectionism due to a percieved better "quality " which rarely reflects the higher price demanded.
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percieved better "quality " which rarely reflects the higher price demanded.
I think I would be happier with my 9yo Trackabout Safari crossing the Simpson than a brand new Chinese CT from the quality I have seen of them. Just my $0.02 worth. And yes I paid more for my Trackie 2nd hand that a new Chinese CT and am still happy.
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I don't think many would debate that if your plan is to use your camper to travel across the length and breadth of Australia including all the roughest terrain your vehicle will take you that a CT designed and built for the purpose would be the better option. In most cases this would be an Aussie built camper.
For the camper that gets out 4 or 5 times a year to a seaside caravan park or most NP camp grounds do not need (but may elect to buy) a similar camper - a lot of others are happy with a bare bones camper that fit their budget - in a lot of cases this happens to be a chinese built one.
Basing the argument for buying a Aussie built camper because you can do the Simpson etc is the same as using the same argument for a conversation between buying a Outlander versus a Landcruiser. The buyer of the Outlander obviously isn't interested in hard core 4WD'ing.
Before someone pipes up that people are buying the 6K chines camper and are expecting them to be able to do the full outback thing without mods..... well that is more an argument about Natural Selection not always working (and the fact that the regulatory bodies aren't doing their job properly.
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My camper has a Chinese top (oztrail 12) but the trailer is built in Australia (Adelaide) does this make it inferior?
I think that they need have some control on Australian standards on the trailers when imported to Australia for road safety but with the tent that is probably a different story.
About the ore that they export to china and they turn it into steel cheaper (and export back) than Australia can is why we need to have a mining tax because you can only dig out these minerals once and once the minerals are gone you will not see these big mining companies here anymore because they don't give a s**t about the Australian people.
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It doesnt matter if we use a 50k CT to travel the entire country or a 3k Chinese CT to take mum, dad and the kids camping twice a year or a tent or a swag or we just like to sleep on the dirt under the stars the important thing is we are getting out there and enjoying the lifestyle :)
The thread doesnt need to turn into mine is better than yours, yours is dangerous and will fall to bits.....we are all like minded people we should keep it civil.
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Basing the argument for buying a Aussie built camper because you can do the Simpson etc is the same as using the same argument for a conversation between buying a Outlander versus a Landcruiser.
Not sure this argument is truly valid in this discussion. If we were discussing the relative merits of an Australian Built OKA and a Chinese built Great Wall, and their ability to cross the simpson, this would be similar to the current CT discussion.
There is a place for both fully Aus built and "imported" componentry CTs. The issue is having appropriate build quality and safety validation. Its clear that having a registration isnt an appropriate validation. Having a local CT builders Guild would seem to go part of the way.
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Danny, this was never a criticism of people who buy a camper or products manufactured in China.
The topic raises only the REAL issue of misrepresentation by some importers that a product partly or wholly manufactured outside Australia (up to a percentage) is "Australian Made".
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On AS/NZS.
I would like to remind you all that items do not have to meet or exceed an AS/NZS unless that standard in written into legislation.
I have no idea what standards relate to this industry however just because there is one does not mean that they are adhered too.
BTW I chose to purchase a camper that was manufactured near to home so any issues could be dealt with. I have seen their facility and they make the trailers and tents in house. They use Aussie canvas but I can't be sure about the steel.
Regards
Crisp Image
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Danny, this was never a criticism of people who buy a camper or products manufactured in China.
The topic raises only the REAL issue of misrepresentation by some importers that a product partly or wholly manufactured outside Australia (up to a percentage) is "Australian Made".
Yeh I understand Mate and I agree that misleading advertising is not acceptable and is catching out unsuspecting buyers.
The thread is potentially turning into a chinese bashing thread thats all ;) I try to always speak to people online as I would standing around a camp fire with them, so I get a bit annoyed when people speak down to others behind a pc monitor.
Back on topic...............I agree with all constructive discussion in regards to the misleading advertising going on in the industry and the sooner it is regulated the better :)
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Sorry Danny (or others) if I offended you. I was in no way denegrating anyones choice to buy a CT from overseas, I was only referring to the "perceived" quality rather than "actual" quality and peoples choice to buy what they think is best for them. I did look at the others when I was buying but saw the real quality of what I bought. As Danny has said the most important thing is to get out there & see Oz. It's a great place.
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AS 4177 is really the only applicable standard, which relates to towing componentry towballs, couplings, chains and electrical connectors.
There are also various Welding Standards, but mostly geared for structures.
As a start the guild could work out some minimum build standards for the industry.
cheers.
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Sorry Danny (or others) if I offended you. I was in no way denegrating anyones choice to buy a CT from overseas, I was only referring to the "perceived" quality rather than "actual" quality and peoples choice to buy what they think is best for them. I did look at the others when I was buying but saw the real quality of what I bought. As Danny has said the most important thing is to get out there & see Oz. It's a great place.
Not in the slightest mate. I understand your point of view and have no issue with it at all :)
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In the old days in NSW at least any vehicle needing registratioin that currently wasnt registered had to go over the pits where RTA inspectors made sure it complied... now every fifth rego station also does blue slips and as you say the standard of inspection is obviously lacking.
And there lies the problem!
So I see two different issues being discussed here; inferior quality on camper trailers and keeping jobs here in Australia.
For the first issue I agree that the compliance check/blue slip system is absolutely flawed. I believe the RTA (and equivalent organizations for each state) need to realise that checking fundamentals on a camper (such as working lights, brakes, etc) just doesnt cut it any more. We live in a time where due diligance/workmanship on manfacturing (both on and off shore) doesn't compare to the compliance rules and regulations defined 30-40+ years ago.
I believe that they need to reinstate a program where 1) they understand the state of compliance checks just to realise how bad they really are today, 2) define a new set of compliance checks that are industry aligned (read current) with a governing body specialising in campers/caravans 3) inspections performed by a trusted body whether it be the RTA themselves or out sourced to a *single* company specilising in compliance checks and 4) be liable for any damages resulting in non compliance.
Yes, point 4 may be a bit ambitious but you can see where I am heading.
As for jobs in Australia, I think we need to have a good hard think about where we are heading economically. Primary industry such as mining will be around for some but what happens when it is no more? Isnt China looking at cheaper areas/countries to invest in mining? How do you really compete with off shore mass manufacturing industries? Abolish overseas imports and reinstate local manufacturing? Isn't that what Germany does today?
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Re: Invasion of the Chinese CT
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 05:20:37 PM »
Quote
I too have just recently joined this association and am proud to be a member. To be a member we get audited by the association to make sure that we do make our tents and trailers and if not need to prove by way of invoices that our products are made here. We also have to provide engineers drawings on our campers to make sure they comply to ADR regs etc.
I think this association is a good thing and manufacturers who miss lead the public will pay the price by the ACCC etc. Its hard for perspective buyers to make the right decision these days when purchasing a Camper Trailer as so many companies have gone off shore with trailer and tent components and quite frequently miss lead you guys when buying a camper. And a lot of companies are sending Dynaproffed Aussie made canvas overseas and getting the chinese to sew them up. We did the exercise 2 years ago and had sample tents sent over. After 3 or 4 attempts to get it right, I can say the over all quality of workmanship was pretty good. At the time when I did the math on what we were selling the savings equated to around $500000 per year (yep half a million) on our sales at the time. I decided against the off shore gear as consistency is a major issue, but the thing that stuck in my mind was "if everyone did the same....just how many people are going to loose there job"! Till today we put product over profit and some of you here might think we make a squilion $$$ but can say "NO" not the case. I rely on our good name, low profit margins with a quantity turnover to make a living. While you guys support us, we'll keep the doors open and hopefully keep making a product for all of you guys to enjoy.
I hope that the association is worthwhile and not something like the BSA , ( Building Services Authority ) , take your yearly membership and do nothing for it .
Good luck with it ..... Jim
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I don't think many would debate that if your plan is to use your camper to travel across the length and breadth of Australia including all the roughest terrain your vehicle will take you that a CT designed and built for the purpose would be the better option. In most cases this would be an Aussie built camper.
For the camper that gets out 4 or 5 times a year to a seaside caravan park or most NP camp grounds do not need (but may elect to buy) a similar camper - a lot of others are happy with a bare bones camper that fit their budget - in a lot of cases this happens to be a chinese built one.
Well said.
In every competitive market place the business environment is constantly changing. It's naive to think it will always remain the same. The catch cry lately on various forums seems to constantly be "buy local" and "keep jobs in Australia". I'd agree that if a product is not up to scratch or to agreed standard then it shouldn't be able to compete with those products that are. However, if someone else can offer me a similar product at a significantly reduced price.... I don't know too many people who wouldn't consider buying it, including myself.
Sure, service is worth something too, however in all honesty I can say most recently I've received better service from people on the other side of a computer screen in another country, than I have when walking into a shop and dealing with someone face to face across a counter.
Online sales and overseas imports are no doubt eroding market share from Australian sellers & manufacturers. If the same Australian sellers and manufacturers don't evolve and change the way they do business, improve their service, offer something better, innovative or unique, or look at ways to reduce their cost of goods..... then they will ultimately lose market share and in the very worst situation, no longer be operating at some point in the future. It's the reality of the situation right now, and complaining does nothing really other than delay the enivitable.
BTW - my comments are very generalised and aren't neccessarily targeting CT industry, but more about the general philosphy of doing business in Australia.
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(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/cremo1/test.jpg)
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(http://scienceblogs.com/observations/human-evolution.gif)
I've read everything here and my issue still stands, advertising 15oz (etc) when it's not, closer to 8oz - you blokes are getting ripped!
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I've read everything here and my issue still stands, advertising 15oz (etc) when it's not, closer to 8oz - you blokes are getting ripped!
Honestly, how many non canvas people would know the difference when shopping for a canvas product??
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Honestly, how many non canvas people would know the difference when shopping for a canvas product??
Depends on a number of things however, you can tell/see/feel the difference between canvas quality and I think Dan's point is simply be upfront about what the product is you are selling. If you can't tell the difference and you think you are getting whiz bang quality canvas and your not then you are getting ripped off.
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... I think Dan's point is simply be upfront about what the product is you are selling.
agree.. but deception has been part of selling Shit since time began.
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agree.. but deception has been part of selling **** since time began.
There is deception and straight out lying.....lol albeit they are the same....lol
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My next CT is probably going to be an aussie built trailer with all ovesco parts .. but with a Chinese tent ... the tent will probably only last us a few years and then i will put a quality Aussie tent on the top .
i just cant afford to buy the all Aussie product straight out . i would rather put the money towards customizing , [lights , power, ect]
ive looked at some Chinese trailers and ive gotta say, i think they would brake before i even got it home.
Craig
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I think this is a really good topic to cover and glad it was brought up, I suspect this thread will go for quite a while.
I've read this thread over again from scratch and have seen some really good valid points been made about our society, spending and living patterns and Chinese vs Aussie campers when comparing cost and quality.
Cheers
Campfire
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I have just read thru this thread....
I have just one question.....
If we have an australian standard for our camper trailers for rego compliance, what happens to the home built trailer?
I, as a boilermaker, built my own because of the extremely high cost of a decently built trailer. I refused to pay $15K for something I only use 2-5 times a year.
And yes I bought an import tent for the same reason.
I know how much labour goes into building some thing such as a trailer, so stop trying to convince me you only break even on a trailer build when it costs 45K, too buy!
Sure there are business costs, but I personally know a first generation canvas business owner who has 6 houses and a flourishing business.
To me it is all about value for money, my trailer with my hours, painting and steel etc. cost $3500 + tent $2500 = $6000
Now I have $9000 left to travel confidently accross the simpson!
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Interesting topic, and no easy answers are there? My two cents would be;
1. just cause its Aussie made doesn't necessarily make it quality.
2. vice versa for imported
3. rightly or wrongly the noble concept of 'keeping jobs in Australia' alone WILL NOT cause Australians to pay more for less.
To share an experience, when I first started to 'shop' for a camper, I visited 3 highly regarded manufactures in Melbourne's sth east. (many of you will be able to guess who!) when I asked them why are you so much dearer? One explained it really well and went into many of the things explained through this thread, the other two just kept repeating 'because we are Aussie made'. This led me to question 'did theses Aussie manufacturers really understand the issues?' If the average punter is going to hand over an extra 10k for the same thing (sort of) then the local manufacturer had better be able to prove why Aussie canvas is better, why Aussie steel is better, and so on. If you can't prove it in less than 20min's then sorry, the sale is probably gone. The consumer might (or not) live to regret their choice, but that's too late for Aussie industry.
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Again, the topic was about mis-representation, not quality.
I'll put forward that none of the Chinese campers are as well designed as some of the Aussie built units. That is not to say that they aren't good enough, or usable, or value for your money, especially if you do just use it a couple of times a year. So you'll get a few years out of it, that is great. I say again, this topic also did not set out to make anyone feel bad or inferior or unwelcome for buying a Chinese camper.
I don't own an expensive camper myself, it's not about the purchase price.
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I also think its important to make the distinction between
Custom-made, mass produced products.
Alot of the references are about trailers that are designed for extreme use.
I have looked at a mates chinese off-road trailer and structurally it is better than
my CUB off-road 1992.
The trailers that are imported are for the mainstream market if your needs are specialized
then this not the best choice unless you are happy to upgrade some of it.
And I am sure the AU makers use CH steel....
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After going to a couple of shows where multiple camper manufacturers/distributers were there, I found it interesting to compare the quality of the cheapy to the top of range. The difference is huge, but so was the price. I agree with the comment about the differences in canvas used. Suppose to be the same weight but just by feeling them (I am not a canvas expert!) there was varst differences in quality and weight.
The other issue is the quality of engineering. There is no way some of these are safe and definately they aren't 'offroad'. Pop rivetted for christ sake!
I am however, supportive of cheap imports being available in the market as I thing they get the first timer/occasional light user a relatively low entry point into the world of CT. From there they can upgrade if they wish.
If they can improve the base safety standard of all CT to get rid of the dangerous ones and tighten up the standards of what things can be advertised as so potential buyers are not mislead, then it is up to the buyer to justify or not the diffences in price/quality and options.
Steve
PS FWIW, I have an aussie built trailer and tent.
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HA!
concidering most of the parts on yours are imported...........
What parts are imported?
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What parts are imported?
the anti-seize on the wheel nuts.
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Some may not realise, but all PVC is imported.
It is no longer (and hasn't been for a while) made in Australia.
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Had a recent look at mine and the obvious imports were the wheels China and tyres Indonesia. This is on an Aussie made trailer. Tent is Dynaproof, but not sure now where they get their alloy and steel from though, I assumed Aussie as per the advertising, worth asking the questions. Water tank, who knows?
Looks like Foster's will be gone too. Luckily no one in Australia drinks it.
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Tonight on Today Tonight there is a story about the Chinese manufacturing.
:cheers:
Rich
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Tonight on Today Tonight there is a story about the Chinese manufacturing.
that will be some quality "reporting"
Let George Negus onto it!
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Not having a go - but hat brand camping fridge do you have? You mentioned things like Vegemite etc..... Dick Smith brands are Aussie made and owned... do you buy those?? Shop at IGA?? if so congratulations - you practice what you preach. Unfortunately not all of us (myself included) are so disciplined.
I can understand how frustrating it would be when you are genuinely Aussie made versus some that claim to be and you can't compete on price but it sounded like you are preaching a bit with a hint of self interest.
I have imported a few bits over the years and I am not too sure about some of the figures you quoted earlier about the price landed for tents etc... think there might be a bit of poetic license there once freight, gst, duty, port charges, customs entry and clearance fees are all added in.
At the end of the day I'm afraid the world is shrinking and as someone else mentioned while some industries will inevitably go under as they cannot compete others will spring up to replace them.
I also understand that is of little solace if your industry is one of the ones that is under threat.
I have replied to this comment around 5 times and each time I keep hitting the delete button as I have price lists on trailers tents etc that I was thinking of sharing. You say that my comments aren't exactly true but I do have the proof and have decided I am not going to open this can of worms.
Today I got an email from a member here who said "I purchased off you as you never bagged the chinese stuff and you sold to me on product a knowledge". This member did the hunt around for there new camper and everyone in my industry was quick to bag out the chinese gear. At the time I was focused on what we do and came up with a deal that fitted the budget. I am not against chinese product....I am against people who sell to you and brag that there aussie made, but not the truth...the fact that I did not bag the overseas product and did my spool made the sale....and this client came out of a chinese product, had no issues, was what they could afford at the time etc I am cool with this !! HERE'S TO YOU PETE :cheers:
So lets keep this thread on topic before Julian pops a vessel.....and BTW I have a 60 Litre EvaKool and a 40 litre Engel fridge and shop at coles, is this ok?
Cheers
JT
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Stick with what you doing JT it works:)
I have been to 4wd and camping shows and have had well known companies bag out each other for one reason or another, it sure turned me away!
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Yes the sales strategy of 'my stuff is better because their stuff is sh!t' doesn't work that well.
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JT you will always be in demand for the simple fact you know your product and what,s required to do the job.I find with chinese made they can build a product and copy well but don,t understand what is required to make a good product.I can only comment on metal forming machines which we were copping a flogging for years but so many have been burnt with the chinese stuff it has done a bit of a full circle.
They build some good stuff but let themselves down by using the wrong grades of steel where it matters.We made some dollars out of fixing some of it but once you put a spanner on it it then becomes your problem so we don,t touch it anymore.Hang in there just keep doing what ya doing. Tinkera.
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???I am a realist and as such I understand not every one can afford or justify the cost of a aussie manufactured trailer. BUT I am sure that most unsuspecting, "would be owners" would run a million miles if they understood exactly what they were potentially exposing themselves to litigation wise,here's an example, In Queensland in order to register your camper trailer without a braking system(750kgs) the "Owner" is required to fill out a legal declaration(form F3970)Self Assessment as to the suitability that trailer conforms to ALL the relevent legislation applicable. The owner is going to be the one, left holding the bag so to speak should a major problem arrise. ASK yourself why ? the smiling salesman/ dealer doesnt want to put his name to the form and sign it,after all there is a section for either the owner,manufacturer or dealer to tick the box. Me thinks its because he doesnt hold the relevent proof that it does comply(covert imports). I bet he claims its a aussie built trailer and even fills the form out for you, to make it easier(yeah right), BUT he wont sign it. Thats for you to do!WTF.I think the dealer should be happy to provide a registration service,after all its just good service in 2011. Question #1 of F3970 asks is the trailer imported.This question has multiple ramifications, check out the ADR's applicable to light trailers. ALL the relevent info is available with a quick google search.Dont be caught out!, I know we all have differnt budgets Buy what you can afford, but dont be conned into thinking the relevent authorities will have your back. They will duck for cover and hope you fade away.
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???I am a realist and as such I understand not every one can afford or justify the cost of a aussie manufactured trailer. BUT I am sure that most unsuspecting, "would be owners" would run a million miles if they understood exactly what they were potentially exposing themselves to litigation wise,here's an example, In Queensland in order to register your camper trailer without a braking system(750kgs) the "Owner" is required to fill out a legal declaration(form F3970)Self Assessment as to the suitability that trailer conforms to ALL the relevent legislation applicable. The owner is going to be the one, left holding the bag so to speak should a major problem arrise. ASK yourself why ? the smiling salesman/ dealer doesnt want to put his name to the form and sign it,after all there is a section for either the owner,manufacturer or dealer to tick the box. Me thinks its because he doesnt hold the relevent proof that it does comply(covert imports). I bet he claims its a aussie built trailer and even fills the form out for you, to make it easier(yeah right), BUT he wont sign it. Thats for you to do!WTF.I think the dealer should be happy to provide a registration service,after all its just good service in 2011. Question #1 of F3970 asks is the trailer imported.This question has multiple ramifications, check out the ADR's applicable to light trailers. ALL the relevent info is available with a quick google search.Dont be caught out!, I know we all have differnt budgets Buy what you can afford, but dont be conned into thinking the relevent authorities will have your back. They will duck for cover and hope you fade away.
Very true..how very true...
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I bought an Australian Made Trackabout in 2009 brand new.
The canvas leaks in the rain (In the Corners), tyres lasted 300km before laminating on the highway bending up the guard and destroying the mudflap, Ive replaced both my stabiliser legs as they break, redone the plumbing underneath as it rubbed on the stabiliser leg and wore through, replaced the hand pump, D-rings have pull out of the canvas, breaks pulled to one side they day i drove it away, flymesh is deterorating on the door.
I still would only buy Australian though
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You all make me laugh. so of the Aus made CTs, what % of all of it is Aus made?
This goes for you to JT
Cheers
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I bought an Australian Made Trackabout in 2009 brand new.
The canvas leaks in the rain (In the Corners), tyres lasted 300km before laminating on the highway bending up the guard and destroying the mudflap, Ive replaced both my stabiliser legs as they break, redone the plumbing underneath as it rubbed on the stabiliser leg and wore through, replaced the hand pump, D-rings have pull out of the canvas, breaks pulled to one side they day i drove it away, flymesh is deterorating on the door.
I still would only buy Australian though
Hi Sebastian
Lets address any issues you may have. I believe we make a good product and have very little comeback on what we do.
Tyres- Back in 2009 we used 2nd tyres and occasionally from time to time there was an issue. 300 km's not acceptable, a phone call to us and we would have fixed damages and replaced tyres to your satisfaction. Back then a 4x4 Deluxe Tourer started at around $10K and there was nothing left in the budget for new tyres....but there was an option for new tyres at the time and you may have decided against this option.
Leaking canvas- Is it possible you have set the tent up under a lot of tension which has caused the stitch lines to open up. Once again a call to our office and we would have resolved any issues. A simple fix with a wax stick or seem sealer would have fixed this!
Stabilizer Legs- We have used 1000's of the AL-KO stabilizer legs without issue. When you say they broke, was it something you may have done? The legs are not designed to jack the camper off the ground and will break if you do this.....if its a fault in the product once again would have been happy to replace or fix this issue.
Water hose wearing on leg- Sounds like something my guys did not do properly at time of manufacture....would have been more than happy to fix this. Just remember when you have humans making product, from time to time things can go wrong!
Hand pump- These have always been an issue and to this day we still replace them FOC. We find if people keep the shaft lubricated they will last twice as long. We use the Trojen brand which is regarded as the best in the industry. When I do a hand over I do explain to people that they will leak around the top and always pays to keep an extra one on hand in case the tap fails. Once again given the chance I would have fixed this one up as well.
D-Rings pulling out of tent- Common problem if people use the tent to pull the pegs out or when setting up if the D-ring is sitting up off the ground they smash the peg in until the D-ring is touching on the ground. D-rings don't just fall out unless at time of manufacture the sewing machine was not working properly....am happy to look at this one for you and we have the means to test it and advise you if it was something you have done wrong or whether it was a manufacturing fault.
Flymesh on door- We use super screen mesh and is regarded as the strongest, dearest and the best money can buy. When setting up, before you peg your tent down...simply zip the door down 1st. By doing this the door will not elongate and make it hard to zip up or unzip. I do see from time to time where people have stretched the mesh (generally not broken, just stretched) as a result from the tent not been set up correctly, which results in the door been under immense pressure and long term stretches the fabric. If there is an issue with the product or the way we have sewn it.....happy once again to sort this issue.
Brakes- At the time of hand over we would have explained that the brakes are set up at a factory pre set by AL-KO and do need adjustment after the 1st couple of hundred km's. I don't recall getting a phone call from you on how to adjust the brakes nor do I remember us doing an adjustment for you. We would of gladly re adjusted the brakes for you FOC as we do for all of our clients who are not mechanically minded.....so once again no call was made and you have not given Trackabout the opportunity to fix this issue!
I have many 1000's of happy clients roaming the country enjoying there Trackabout and from time to time things can go wrong. We are always here to help and sort issues whether it be something you have done wrong or something we may have over looked ! I will invite you to bring the camper back to us (even if its not under warranty) and I will get these problems resolved. When we sell a camper we like to know that everyone is enjoying it and airing your issues on a public forum is not the right place to resolve these problems.....anyhow you have my attention now (a phone call would have worked too lol) so will be waiting on a call or you can PM me here if you want.
Cheers
JT
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^ A very well worded response JT.
It is difficult to correct an issue if no one tells you it exists.
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You all make me laugh. so of the Aus made CTs, what % of all of it is Aus made?
This goes for you to JT
Cheers
Ok for us the trailers, kitchens,tents and canvas fabric, toolboxes, axles, steel and sheet we use, powder coating,water tanks,(may have missed some components) are all proudly Australian made. We proudly make and support as many local companies as we can.
There are also a lot of components we use that are made off shore such as rims & tyres, fixtures, zips, binding, velcroe etc and we simply don't have a choice in buying these products Australian made. We are 100% Australian Made with some imported products used and if you have any solutions on where I can buy all of the components we use that are aussie made....I am all ears ;D
If everyone supports local (where possible)our children will have a future, so next time you buy an apple,seafood or a side of beef have a look at where its made so our farmers and many others will have a future in this country :cup:
Cheers
JT
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I bought an Australian Made Trackabout in 2009 brand new.
The canvas leaks in the rain (In the Corners), tyres lasted 300km before laminating on the highway bending up the guard and destroying the mudflap, Ive replaced both my stabiliser legs as they break, redone the plumbing underneath as it rubbed on the stabiliser leg and wore through, replaced the hand pump, D-rings have pull out of the canvas, breaks pulled to one side they day i drove it away, flymesh is deterorating on the door.
I still would only buy Australian though
Mate anyone who has dealt with John at trackabout would know to give him a call if this was true. As jt suggests was there a bit of missuse involved? If it was bad workmanship it would have been dealt with, not a good to air your dirty laundry on a forum.
Let everyone know when he gives you a call jt, I doubt he will
:cheers: flemo
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JT. that was avery well worded reply and you give me great confidence in trackabouts , seems you care about your product :cup:
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We hired the Trackabouts for years sending them to the Cape and if we had any issues they were fixed.
As john said if a problem is not known it cannot be fixed.
Sorry we have gone off topic.
Mark
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My thoughts on the china v's Aussie made are based on my research done 18 months ago before making a purchase. In the end we went with an Aussie made trailer for durability, reliability and confidence in aftersales service, because the trailer is going to be our home for 12 months. We paid more for it ( prob tripple that of an import ) but at the time there was nothing on the market that fitted our requirements and to get the custom fit out we wanted mr won hung lo and his aussie importer was ruled out straight away. Plus some of them are down right cheap and nasty and would rattle to pieces where we intend going to.
We narrowed it down to trackabout and modcon and in the end jt was that bit more understanding of our ( the missus' ! ) requirements. I'm sure they didn't make much profit from my build but it appears johns time developing my requirements has now become standard 12 mths later. He must have spent countless hours sorting out our must haves and in the end I got exactly what I wanted with the confidence that I know the person that built it will back up his product. I'm sure if I'm stuck in the middle of butf$@k in a few years even tho out of warranty I can give someone a call and get parts, assistance and advice.
There are no doubt many Aussie shysters that don't support their product and in that case your probably better buying an import but in most cases I think Aussie is better. I know many people that were ripped off by a Yamba boat builder jopalo a few years ago, was an awArd winning tradesman that turned out to be a scum bag, just disappeared with loads of people's money but left no boats. Not all Aussies ad good blokes and I think he is trading again in fnq somewhere
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You all make me laugh. so of the Aus made CTs, what % of all of it is Aus made?
This goes for you to JT
Cheers
You have to ask? I thought that when you posted the below in regards to my CT, you actually knew what you were talking about? Don't tell me you don't... because surely you wouldn't be engaged in this debate if you didn't understand what you were talking about.
HA!
concidering most of the parts on yours are imported...........
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If someone can only afford $5k on a NEW camper, they might be more attracted to spend their $5k on a "Made in Hostraria" camper over another $5k "Made in China" camper, but they ain't going to buy YOUR $15k really made in Australia camper, so I'm not sure what this discussion is about. Apples and oranges in my opinion.
Until this Association's members start selling Australian campers at the same price point you're never going to stop people buying those cheap imports, as there's no alternative local product.
I think you need to go the other way with your Association - get together so you can negotiate lower production costs as a bigger unit rather than getting together so you can implement measures to justify keeping your sale price high. The Jim's Group do this - all their franchisees are individuals, but as a member of a group of 2,500 franchisees you can buy consumables much more cheaply than an individual because the seller has 2,500 potential customers instead of 1).
It's the same as retail - they whinge about the internet taking away business, but how about all Westfield's thousands of tenants get together and negotiate with Westfield to get their horrendous rents down instead of blaming their woes on their potential customers? Bad, bad PR, I mean who used to shop at Harvey Norman but now thinks Gerry Harvey's a dick for banging on about it?
Lastly I agree there should be standards applied to all campers, but I'm afraid if this happens in the long term local manufacturers will have real problems. Who would have bought a Hyundai 10 years ago? They were rubbish, but they learnt, improved and now they've got something like 8% of the Australian car market. Some overseas manufacturers will improve their quality, and they'll still be cheaper than an Aussie equivalent. As the world gets smaller you're going to have to think differently if you want to stay in business.
Just my 2c worth.
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Hi JT.
Great to see a local firm doing well by doing the job properly, ok so you can't capture the cheaper end of the market but I hope you continue to grow and offer a better quality product for the experienced camper.
And I hope Sebastian never buys anything from me.
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If someone can only afford $5k on a NEW camper, they might be more attracted to spend their $5k on a "Made in Hostraria" camper over another $5k "Made in China" camper, but they ain't going to buy YOUR $15k really made in Australia camper, so I'm not sure what this discussion is about. Apples and oranges in my opinion.
I agree with that point, but everyone eventually trades up... we are after all "aspirational voters" according to the pollies...
So a more pertinant point could be that if everyone goes and buys a $5k Chinese trailer there wont be any $15k Australian trailers... so when your $5k 'bargain' comes apart on an outback trip and you decide to replace it with something stronger, where are you going to get it?
I don't think the market can support the plethora of Australian manufacturers (and 'assemblers') currently trading, but I'd hate to see all of them disappear.
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Mate you used 'pertinent' and 'plethora' on one post - I did not expect to see those words in here! ;D
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Mate you used 'pertinent' and 'plethora' on one post - I did not expect to see those words in here!
There is an educated one in every crowd, we now know who ours is! :cup:
I don't think the market can support the plethora of Australian manufacturers (and 'assemblers') currently trading, but I'd hate to see all of them disappear.
Squalo does have a valid point though.
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I bought an Australian Made Trackabout in 2009 brand new.
The canvas leaks in the rain (In the Corners), tyres lasted 300km before laminating on the highway bending up the guard and destroying the mudflap, Ive replaced both my stabiliser legs as they break, redone the plumbing underneath as it rubbed on the stabiliser leg and wore through, replaced the hand pump, D-rings have pull out of the canvas, breaks pulled to one side they day i drove it away, flymesh is deterorating on the door.
I still would only buy Australian though
This sort of thing cracks me up .... it taken you 2 years to have a bitch on a public forum about some problems that you have / or may have caused yourself .
Pretty poor form to say the least .
Well done to Mr Trackabout in regards to his reply .
Cheers
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Mate you used 'pertinent' and 'plethora' on one post - I did not expect to see those words in here! ;D
I have to take the time to grab a dictionary and put it beside the computer .... Damn !!! My Swag is stepping up a notch here . LOL
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Well done to Mr Trackabout in regards to his reply .
x2
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This sort of thing cracks me up .... it taken you 2 years to have a bitch on a public forum about some problems that you have / or may have caused yourself .
Pretty poor form to say the least .
Well done to Mr Trackabout in regards to his reply .
Cheers
And it was his first time post?? Sketchy!
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To those contemplating a new camper...either imported or domestic manufacured....have a look at this site first...
www.australianmanufacturedcampertrailers.org.au/ (http://www.australianmanufacturedcampertrailers.org.au/)
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Maybe that fella works for Hung Flug Doe Campers?
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well FYI most of the imported Ct's are made here.
Shipped in bits and assembled here. As Aussie made as most. And yes I'm keeping Aussies in work they might be of foreign origin however they work long days assembling them.
My $5800 camper has a 2 year warranty.
Just because you buy your camper from an Aussie IE JT, doesn't mean its not made from imported parts.
And just because mine in imported doesn't mean the blokes putting it together aren't Aussie (fresh)
I highly doubt even the most "Aussie Manufacturer" has over 50% local product.
Yes build quality may be lower, however I'm not mortgaging the house to buy a CT.
I own mine.......
How much BRAND NEW camper can i get her in Aus for the same coin?
Cheers
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This thread is going nowhere....FAST!!!!
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This thread is going nowhere....FAST!!!!
I motion to have the entire thread deleted.
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No way, I was hoping for a tanty before it gets deleted?
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No way, I was hoping for a tanty before it gets deleted?
and then along Dan comes and redeems the entire topic ;D ;D ;D You make me laugh Dan, good on ya :cup:
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This thread can not get anywhere, the subject is to complex. CTs are just a part of a much bigger issue. It is very difficult for Australian industry to compete worldwide with our manufacturing products. And it is a shame because we are becoming more and more of Paul Keating's banana republic (except we have no bananas... :D). Australia makes too much money digging stuff from underground - easy money while there is demand for the stuff. It makes it very difficult to competitively manufacture complex items when a truck driver in a coal mine makes 250K+. I recently bought at Bunnings a simple drill attachment made from rubber for 10 bucks. It was made in Switzerland. Does it make sense to everyone? The broom that I use to clean off the cob webs from the house is made in Italy. Also from Bunnings...
Kimberley charges 50K (plus options) for their top of the range camper. For that money you can buy a very decent car with enough technology and safety to put Kimberley into shame. Yes, I know the benefits of mass production. Still makes you wonder. I have no idea about their margins, I hope they are healthy so that they can give me some support if I need it half way up the Canning. It is a bet, you want to believe that you ARE buying a better product, designed to withstand Aussie outback roads and tracks, AND you hope they will support you if and when you need it. I hope I am getting my money worth, long term...
Can't wait for the end of October ;D
Peter
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To those contemplating a new camper...either imported or domestic manufacured....have a look at this site first...
www.australianmanufacturedcampertrailers.org.au/ (http://www.australianmanufacturedcampertrailers.org.au/)
lol - lot of scare mongering on that site. interesting "members of the AMCTG are required to qualify for Engineering Compliance by a certified Australian Engineering Company, and transparently prove that they are Australian Manufactures of their Chassis, Body, Suspension, Tent and Canvas. This is your guarantee of quality and high performance"
So they are saying that just by being Australian made it is a 'guarantee' of 'quality' and 'high performance' pffft yeah right
I understand where they are coming from but not sure they are presenting it the best way.
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As noted by several others this thread is going no where fast and should be deleted.
Why - because it originally started about a group of Australian CT manufacturers forming an industry group called Australian Manufactured Camper Trailer Guild (AMCTG).
So rather than people talking about this newly formed group and what it can do to benefit our favorite past time we have a mob of wingers trying to express their opinion about Chinese verses the world, who cares??????
So long as we are all getting out there and enjoying the great Aussie outdoors while we still have it and wheather it's in our home made CT, South African CT, Chinese CT, 2nd hand CT, top of the range Aussie CT, bare bones Aussie CT, tent or swag, lets all stay positive.
And how about a little support for these people who have started this group and who are already very busy as we the end user can only benefit.
Cheers
Wartim
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Time to move on let's all go camping instead...
Mark
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I just read the thread and found some excellent information and topics raised I hadn't thought off.
I am a small business owner and have a Chinese camper trailer, we paid $4400 for it as we knew it would only get used in parks 2-3 times per year and it was in the budget we had. With in the next 2 years we will upgrade to a mod con origin, at this point I would like to point out my first car was a $500 VB commodore, the Aussie built camper is an evolution and I imagine very few would have been driving a merc as there first car.
My view, I am putting money in the pockets of the park owners, camp store owners as I buy general camping products etc but do agree 100% that the Australian manufactures need a forum or group to comply to. I too hate the way things are claimed as Australia designed which leads people to think they are manufactured in Australia. There is the MTAQ, APRAA and SEMA which deal with the auto industry as im sure the building industry and all others have a body which helps them and keeps the honest honest and for most camper trailers is a big purchase.
At the end of the day, there are a lot of people out there that aren't to bright and if the body or forum can supply them with the information needed to make an educated purchase so they can enjoy the new camper life style with their hard earned money then I am all for it.
NICK
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Wow this isn't a can of worms, it's the whole worm farm. Cheap imports won't be stopped whilst there is a market for them. As long a the purchaser does their research into the products, and is aware of what they are getting. But in saying that you can find decent Aussie built trailers for a similar price. While I would of liked to buy an xtrail, track about or a tambo our budget didn't allow and with a bit of hunting around we found our tempest ct. Their made by a small family company in Hastings, Vic extremely good value at $6000. Yes it has overseas components on it, but they are of good quality, and have full trust in them. So buy what suits your needs and budget, get out there and have fun in our great country...cheers Wayne
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I listened to the owner of Cub campers today on ABC talking to Macca.
He was talking about the guild they were forming, and from what I took of the conversation it was the claming Australian made tag some campers were using, not the fact that they were made in China was the biggest problem as he felt it was misleading the buyer.
I don’t have a problem with that, I brought a tent made in China, but I new what I was buying, and that is how it should be, and not being conned into thinking it was made in Australia when it is not.
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95% of the stuff we use everyday is imported.
Near all bunnings stock, 99% of electrical gear, even down to the teck screws we use.
Its sad. the Aust government needs to do something to help the Aussie workers. Introducing a carbon tax will put the final nail in the coffin for a lot of Aussie industries.
You know there is something wrong when we can import, pay taxes and freight and have it landed at our door cheaper then an Australian builder can supply it. Thanks JuLIAR.
Cheers!
So your blaming the demise of manufacturing in Australia on Julia Gillard are you ??? ??? ???
And please tell me where you get the 95 % Importation figure from
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OK lets start, no I'm not blaming Julia, I'm stating the fact it will put more pressure on local manufacturers to keep competitive.
Imported figures, well look around the room ferret. unless of course your in a padded cell. Just because you dont import it doesnt mean the person you bought it from hasnt imported it.
??? ??? ???
Cheers!
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I just read through this thread with interest - as you all know I import from China and re-sell Solar Power Kits , panels etc... The quality of my products is pretty good and we add some extra TLC touches to hopefully improve the longevity of the items ... So I am obviously not against Chinese imports ..
When I started in April 2009 an 80 watt panel ( BP brand ) was selling between $1100 and $1400 .
They are now selling for $300 - $500 and less if you're careful ... Is that a good thing ? I think so..
I don't believe it affected any Australian Manufacturer and as far as I know there isn't one here anymore .
Now for anyone who can prove that a company or seller is misusing the "Australian Made" tag on imported goods you should report them to Australian Customs ... Customs are the ones that have the legislative backing to ensure products are marked correctly ....
Also imported trailers are "supposed" to have an Import Permit issued by the Dept of Transport that ensures that they comply with the ADRs for that type of trailer ...The problem here is that it is easy to get around that requirement by importing your flat pack trailer in 3 or 4 seperate packs on 3 or 4 seperate vessels - However after being built the trailer has to be registered and the ADRs verified ..
So presumably these trailers are up to the ADR standard required to travel on Australian Roads ? Dep't of Transport is not that interested in off-road !!
Well thats my entry into the can - Lets see what a rucus that causes... ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Steve
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I just read through this thread with interest - as you all know I import from China and re-sell Solar Power Kits , panels etc... The quality of my products is pretty good and we add some extra TLC touches to hopefully improve the longevity of the items ... So I am obviously not against Chinese imports ..
When I started in April 2009 an 80 watt panel ( BP brand ) was selling between $1100 and $1400 .
They are now selling for $300 - $500 and less if you're careful ... Is that a good thing ? I think so..
I don't believe it affected any Australian Manufacturer and as far as I know there isn't one here anymore .
Now for anyone who can prove that a company or seller is misusing the "Australian Made" tag on imported goods you should report them to Australian Customs ... Customs are the ones that have the legislative backing to ensure products are marked correctly ....
Also imported trailers are "supposed" to have an Import Permit issued by the Dept of Transport that ensures that they comply with the ADRs for that type of trailer ...The problem here is that it is easy to get around that requirement by importing your flat pack trailer in 3 or 4 seperate packs on 3 or 4 seperate vessels - However after being built the trailer has to be registered and the ADRs verified ..
So presumably these trailers are up to the ADR standard required to travel on Australian Roads ? Dep't of Transport is not that interested in off-road !!
Well thats my entry into the can - Lets see what a rucus that causes... ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Steve
x2. I know my trailer was imported in bits as to avoid taxes as its "parts"
Goodonya Mandrake!!
Cheers!
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x2. I know my trailer was imported in bits as to avoid taxes as its "parts"
Are you happy in the knowledge that not only wasn't the appropriate duty paid, your trailer may not meet ADRs?
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Are you happy in the knowledge that not only wasn't the appropriate duty paid, your trailer may not meet ADRs?
Considering i have an independent engineers certificate.......yep i sleep quite well at night.
And you are 100% that all components of yours are A ok? all duty paid???
Cheers!
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And you are 100% that all components of yours are A ok? all duty paid???
Yep, Goldstream have been in business for almost 20 years and I supported a local business and local jobs
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OK lets start, no I'm not blaming Julia, I'm stating the fact it will put more pressure on local manufacturers to keep competitive.
Imported figures, well look around the room ferret. unless of course your in a padded cell. Just because you dont import it doesnt mean the person you bought it from hasnt imported it.
??? ??? ???
Cheers!
Manufacturing in Australia has been in demise for over 15 years & Carbon Tax or not will continue on this path especially with such a high dollar but I digress from the thread which is about Chinese made CT's
I purchased an Australian made CT because because of the build quality, options offered, & resale value after 10 - 15 years which is how long I intend to have it, & I must say it did give me a good feeling knowing it is made in Australia & will assist in keeping an Australian in work, yes it is an expensive CT but as I have stated on other threads it is like having money under your bed, you wont gain Interest on it but I'll have a bloody good time with it & get maybe 90% of the initial purchase back when I do sell it, That will not happen with a Chinese import and I seriously doubt it will even last that long without serious repairs.
It's not just about the fact that it's made in China & labor is cheaper there it's about the Quality of the metal and canvas that is used & it's absolute GARBAGE & will not go the distance.
The Carbon Tax will not put the final nail in the coffin of manufacturing, people buying inferior products because they are cheap will !
Good Luck with your fully Imported CT.
Cheers :cheers:
Frank
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you all make me have a real good laugh.
None of your campers are ANY BETTER than mine.
So the elec wire and lights are 100% aus made and nothing at all imported on it, and all taxes were paid? How about the screws and bolts in it? how about the tyers?
I love you all can be so sure while sitting on your moral soap box.
Im glad you have the warm fuzzy feeling from your Aussie made camper.
At the end of the day, i have paid a boat driver, a wharfie, a truck driver, 12 blokes in the factory assembling the campers, plus the bloke to give me a blue slip and then the RTA. so 17 Aussies i have kept in a job.
At the end of the day if you want to but Aussie, do it.
YOUR STILL NOT ANY BETTER THAN ME OR ANYONE ELSE ON HERE
Cheers!
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Whow somebody really needs a hug
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I dont know about building campers but some of the posters here need to build a bridge... And get over it!!
I have never seen any examples of superiority complex here!!
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Lets try a different tack here -
Any Australian manufacturer has the right to approach Australian Customs if they can prove that an imported product is / has or will affect their market share and be a financial concern to their business .
As an association I would think this will be what happens with the CT manufacturers .. They will contact Customs put their case forward and Customs will investigate ( because they have to !! ) and if the investigation produces some irregularities in pricing then a "Dumping Duty" will be imposed on the importers to bring their pricing into line with the local product ..
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4227.asp (http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4227.asp)
And - good luck with that ... ;D ;D
Steve
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None of your campers are ANY BETTER than mine.
Other than the fact mine was made by an Aussie company who employ Aussie workers. They also buy sub-assemblies from Aussie companies who employ Aussie workers who make the chassis, cladding, canvas, upholstery etc.
Yours came over on a boat and made an importer rich and probably exploited foreign workers.
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Wow, this thread is certainly " pistols at dawn"
Campfire
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This is great... who needs home and away lol.
Round 6 please
Mark
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Wow, this thread is certainly " pistols at dawn"
Campfire
This tread is just a plain waste of bandwidth ::)
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Wow, this thread is certainly " pistols at dawn"
Campfire
If this association of CT manufacturers ensures honesty and integrity then that's a good thing, yeah? So lets see how it gets along and see what comes of it.
As for the pi$$ing contest sideshow that has hijacked this thread....I think that we've had enough! Holden VFord, Engel V Weaco, Aussie made V the world. It ends up nowhere and does not make the antagonists appear any more intelligent. There are no winners!
This is the final word here and this thread is now locked.
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Keep on topic or this will be locked. This is about local manufacturers starting an association to combat the use of the term "made in Australia" on products that are not in fact manufactured, or substantially manufactured in Australia.