Real world inverter use while camping?

[nab]

My missus has asked if I can modify the car so she can use her coffee machine (1250W), milk frother/heater (500W) and toaster (maybe 1000W?) on our next big trip. Not at the same time obviously.... Will be adding it to the car, not the van, so we can use it on day trips and for ease of installation.
Have camped for years without but our next big trip looks like we may be on the go quite a bit so this extra convenience/luxury might get me in the good books.

My initial thoughts are 1500W inverter, 120A Lithium battery (and associated charging equipment), just not sure if the 120Ah battery will have enough peak current output to use these items. Done a little research and have an idea what I'll do but would rather hear from people that use it as I intend to.

Will a 1500W inverter be OK or cutting it fine? Do I need to go to a 2000W+ inverter?
Any 120Ah lithiums able to supply the load current for my loads? Likely I'll need 2 of them or one 200Ah-ish battery but just double checking.
Any brands to use/avoid?

I'm happy to go bigger but that just means I'll have to change my setup a bit to fit it in.

[xcvator]

That is going to be veeerryy  expensive coffee.You can do all of these things with a portable gas stove.

[nab]

Correct, and we have been.

[Spada]

Heres a snip below showing the approximate draw of some different appliances that might help with the calculations. It's from this article  - https://www.caravanrvcamping.com.au/what-will-my-caravan-appliances-draw?utm_campaign=469113_Our%20Research%20For%20Your%20Trip&utm_medium=email&utm_source=FOLLOW%20WHITE%20RABBITS%20PTY%20LTD&dm_i=7LAI,A1YX,4K51YX,16F4A,1

With a 2000w inverter I have no trouble running the Nespresso Mini pod machine and the milk frother together, but that was off a 300ah battery so not sure on the total draw for the 12ah?
Cheers

[lloydus67]

I used a Nespresso pod machine using a cheap kings 1500 watt inverter, it did work. I wired it to the 100amp agm starter battery (a spare not the car starter) using 35mm heavy duty car battery cable about 1 meter long.
The inverter alarmed as it reached it maximum current the whole time the pod machine was running, my clamp meter told me that I was drawing 136 amps for the 3-4 minutes that the machine was operating.
I think that 2 lithium’s in parallel would be a better option (depending on brand) should give 200amp discharge capacity and a better quality inverter would probably cope as a 1500 watt one. If you go cheap like I did get the 2000 watt for added security, I don’t think that 1500 would last pushing to its maximum all the time.
Lloyd
Just saw the figures in your post above, while they are probably calculated figures, don’t forget about the inefficiency of the cheap ass inverter. My figures were measured using a calibrated instrument.

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[nab]

Cheers guys, just what I'm after. Jumping up to 2000W doesn't see a large increase in physical size so looks to be the go. The 3000W inverters seem huge and I'm trying to fit it in a certain spot in the canopy if I can.

This all started when we were talking about an upcoming Gibb River Rd trip and we were talking about adding a freezer drawer to the canopy. Decided to use my 32L Engel that is in the shed but I need extra battery power to supply my 57L Fridge and 32L freezer. Then we thought, well if we are going for a lithium battery, what about an inverter haha!

Looks like a 200A lithium is the go.

[westvic]

I have been playing with this in the last week or so trying to get real world numbers.

Battery Renogy 100Ah lithium
https://au.renogy.com/core-12v-24v-48v-100ah-deep-cycle-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/
In a box
https://hardkorr.com/au/product/heavy-duty-battery-box/?attribute_colour=White&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhsL00KvMggMVBKtmAh21pAiIEAAYASAAEgIRX_D_BwE
Inverter Renogy 2000W
https://au.renogy.com/renogy-2000-12v-to-230v-pure-sine-wave-inverter-with-ups-function/
Connected with a fairly serious cable 175Amp anderson and 3 gauge wire 1m
https://www.homeof12voltonline.com.au/products/175-amp-anderson-to-ring-terminals-25sq-cable-8mm-eyelets-1-5mt?variant=44009067086083&currency=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu_XHk6zMggMV6qNmAh1WLwWPEAQYASABEgJEuvD_BwE

this is running a 2000w induction cook plate
https://www.kmart.com.au/product/induction-cooker-black-42715863/?sku=42715863&region_id=300001&&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgeK78azMggMVbKZmAh26jwe7EAQYASABEgKEBfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Numbers quoted are from the readout of the battery monitor
https://au.renogy.com/500a-battery-monitor/

Just been using a saucepan of water to get an idea of current draw.

When I have the induction cook plate running at 1600w I'm pulling about 160amps from the battery. When I crank it up a bit it goes over the 175amp make and the inverter starts beeping which I think is trying to tell me it isn't getting enough current and the draw gets a bit over 175amp.

The battery isn't rated for that sort of continuous draw. It seems to be doing it ok but only for a while. I think the limiting factor is the wiring (cable size and connection) and the battery's ability to feed it.
Does work very nicely at 1600w though 

To do this properly I reckon I would need a second battery in parallel and heavier wiring. This should allow a bigger current draw for longer and be a bit easier on the batteries.

This is playing with some fairly serious current though. If things go pear shaped it should be quite spectacular.

[lloydus67]

Hi Westic
If you look at the Anderson website

The 175amp plug is actually good for up to 280 amps but is only able to be safely disconnected with 100 amps running through it. It is also able to take 1/0 cable or 50mm flexible cable if you use metric.

Using the enerdrive installation chart, (this information is taken from Blue Seas a very reputable company)


Using the maximum 3% volt drop sizing part of the chart (0.42volts on a 14volt system, the charging voltage. Less if calculated at 12v)
1/0 Awg cable or 50mm on a circuit 4.5m to 6 meters long can safely carry 150amps.
1awg can carry 120amps and 3/0 Awg can carry 200amps
While the chart doesn’t specifically mention 1/0 Awg below this length of your follow the diagonal line across using the other sizes and lengths of circuits, it’s pretty easy to draw the conclusion that 1/0 cable can easily carry in excess of 200 amps in a circuit under 2 meters in total length.
These tables are based on continuous use, not short term loads, where they can easily carry 50%  more load as a safety factor.
If you use the 10% volt drop chart (maximum 1.4v) you could safely use 1/0 Awg to run 150amps for a circuit 15-19 meters long. I wouldn’t, but you can.
They key thought is to ensure you have 200 amp continuous draw, so get at least 2 x 100A/h lithium batteries.
Lloyd


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[westvic]

Yep agreed and thanks for the info.

I will be sticking to what I've got as it works (and no more budget). Probably overkill with a 2000w inverter but better to be over than under.

Just trying to point out the level of cabling required and how to look at what your battery will support if you do want to run a 2000w device. 

[lloydus67]

No worries


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[loanrangie]

Video on youtube by kings where they run a pod coffee machine off their 1500w inverter hooked up to a 100ah lithium and was able to make over 150 cups of coffee with the battery only dropping to 45% SOC.

[WilSurf]

A 1500W inverter can pull 117A at full power, so you need a battery what can have a continuesdraw of 150A minimum.

[Bird]

https://cdn0.woolworths.media/content/wowproductimages/medium/341164.jpg

[Bad Scott]

https://cdn0.woolworths.media/content/wowproductimages/medium/341164.jpg

No difference to international roast 

[Rob C]

I have the Nespresso Pod Machine & Milk Frother, a 2000W inverter & 2 x 120AH Lithiums. You will need a battery or multiple batteries to get a 200A discharge to cover the draw down from the Coffee machine when in full swing.
I draw 135 to 145A when making coffee. Sometimes with the milk frother & Pod machine both working it will pop the CB out (200A) but not often.
I have worked out that to make 1 cup of coffee it uses 4.5AH.
Check out the batteries discharge rating as most 100-120 have only 100A Max so 2 batteries are generally required

Rob

[lloydus67]

That matches the figures I had using a Nespresso machine.


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[Bird]

No difference to international roast 

International Rust comes from alien technology.. not fit for human consumption...

[loanrangie]

International Rust comes from alien technology.. not fit for human consumption...

Transport industry drives on international roast found in every warehouse lunchroom in Aus.

[Bad Scott]

Transport industry drives on international roast found in every warehouse lunchroom in Aus.

And construction sites.
I did fill up my empty macona jar with international roast and placed it in the lunch room when in WA. It was well received for a whole day till I couldn't hold my laughter in any longer. My crew thought it was the best practical/harmless joke. The site coffee did get changed after that to macona

[Bird]

Transport industry drives on international roast found in every warehouse lunchroom in Aus.

so true... thus why most carry a small jar of their own... anything else but Rust used to get stolen so most places i drove for never supplied anything else but rust

[Fizzie]

And construction sites.

Used to be Army as well

[Foo]

International Rust comes from alien technology.. not fit for human consumption...

   

Foo

[DandyD]

My wife declared that she was no longer prepared to make toast with a gas grill. Too much stress apparently.

We now run a toaster off a 1000w Renogy inverter powered by a pair of 110 AH lead carbon gel batteries.

It is expensive toast.

Happy wife, happy life.

[loanrangie]

My wife declared that she was no longer prepared to make toast with a gas grill. Too much stress apparently.

We now run a toaster off a 1000w Renogy inverter powered by a pair of 110 AH lead carbon gel batteries.

It is expensive toast.

Happy wife, happy life.

I was testing using a toaster off a 2000w inverter powered by 2x100ah AGM's, alhtough the power dipped when using it as long as we have sun its pretty soon recharged.
 Small 1100w kettle was the best purchase, makes that first cuppa a lot easier.

[nab]

OK today I got myself a 200A lithium that will fit under my tray. My plan is to mount a DCDC charger under there with it and have a 350A anderson plug mounted there. Then when the camping canopy is on and I want to use the inverter I will just open the door and plug into the anderson plug. Hoping to keep the inverter cable length to just under 1m.

Next question, anyone had experience having a DCDC charger mounted under their tray or underbonnet long term? It will be subjected to dust and possibly moisture.

While I'm here, a weatherproof shunt?