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Author Topic: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?  (Read 11270 times)

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Offline Fizzie

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2019, 08:42:44 AM »
Quote from: edz on September 18, 2019, 05:32:04 PM
This might help  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMoLA44lcgU .

875 lbs ball weight!!! :o :o :o

What, is he using his ute to tow a D10 Cat on a trailer ???
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Offline Paddler Ed

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2019, 08:45:05 AM »
Quote from: Rodt on September 19, 2019, 06:54:17 AM
I more than likely don't understand but why would you want to weigh your tug rear axle with the van hooked up? This won't give you a ball weight as the weight of the vehicle will be in the mix wouldn't it?

Yes, it wont give you the ball weight, but there's 6 weights you benefit from knowing, and can be measured in this order (best done with all passengers food and fuel on board):
1 Front axle weight - more recent vehicles than any of mine have this weight specified, and this reflects the load on there with the weight of the trailer and rear load in. Too light and you poor tyre contact with the ground and therefore rubbish steering, and if IFS rubbish tyre wear on the ouside of the tyre as that is the only part in contact with the ground.
2 GVM of the tow vehicle = weight of the vehicle, including the load from the towball transferred to the vehicle
3 Towball weight = the weight on the towball (pull nose of trailer on to weigh bridge and put it on the jockey wheel, take vehicle of weighbridge)
4 Train weight or GCM = the weight of the loaded tow vehicle and trailer. Manufacturers specify this
5 Rear axle weight = the load on the rear axle, including the towball weight that is transferred to the vehicle. Again manufacturers specify this on more recent things. May need golook at moving weight forward to get it under the limit if theres capacity on the front axle.
6 Trailer GVM = the total weight of the trailer
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2019, 10:23:39 AM »
Quote from: baz1 on September 19, 2019, 07:57:35 AM
I think I’m just going to bite the bullet and buy a tow ball scale. All the ones at BCF etc look like they are not for polybpock couplings, but the ball couplings. Can anyone recommend one for s polyblock coupling?

I got a one of these   https://reich-web.com/en/products/vehicle-accessories/cwc-caravan-weight-control-up-to-1000-kg/
Just wind the jockey wheel down on it, too easy. Specs say accuracy <3%.
FWIW there is a digital weighbridge at a quarry near me for weighing big trucks and big loads. The operators tell me the accuracy has a 50kg tolerance. Seems (weighbridges) are not ideal for measuring ball mass.
I just decided a scale was worthwhile for peace of mind, safety, avoiding potential overloading fines and the drama of not being able to move on if caught overloaded.
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2019, 10:36:21 AM »
Quote from: Paddler Ed on September 19, 2019, 08:45:05 AM
Yes, it wont give you the ball weight, but there's 6 weights you benefit from knowing, and can be measured in this order (best done with all passengers food and fuel on board):
1 Front axle weight - more recent vehicles than any of mine have this weight specified, and this reflects the load on there with the weight of the trailer and rear load in. Too light and you poor tyre contact with the ground and therefore rubbish steering, and if IFS rubbish tyre wear on the ouside of the tyre as that is the only part in contact with the ground.
2 GVM of the tow vehicle = weight of the vehicle, including the load from the towball transferred to the vehicle
3 Towball weight = the weight on the towball (pull nose of trailer on to weigh bridge and put it on the jockey wheel, take vehicle of weighbridge)
4 Train weight or GCM = the weight of the loaded tow vehicle and trailer. Manufacturers specify this
5 Rear axle weight = the load on the rear axle, including the towball weight that is transferred to the vehicle. Again manufacturers specify this on more recent things. May need golook at moving weight forward to get it under the limit if theres capacity on the front axle.
6 Trailer GVM = the total weight of the trailer

I think you will find ATM is correct term for the total loaded weight of the trailer and includes tow ball mass.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2019, 10:52:06 AM »
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Offline GBC

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2019, 03:04:16 PM »
Quote from: Rodt on September 19, 2019, 06:54:17 AM
I more than likely don't understand but why would you want to weigh your tug rear axle with the van hooked up? This won't give you a ball weight as the weight of the vehicle will be in the mix wouldn't it?

The way I weigh mine is drive forward enough so that the tow vehicle rear axle is off the bridge which gives me my van gtm and I then put the jockey wheel down (on the platform) to take the weight off the tug which then gives me my atm. I then take the gtm weight off the atm which gives me a rough ball weight. There is more included in the atm (ie: drawbar weight etc) but it serves as a rough indication if I don't wish to buy a towball scale.

Cheers

Rod
Because unless you are worried about exceeding ball weight or loading a van, towball mass is not generally a figure looked at by enforcement agencies. They do however have an iPad with every vehicle’s max axle loads and will check your trailer gross, all by having you quickly drive over their scales.
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Offline DandyD

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2019, 04:08:51 PM »
Removed as talking bollox.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 04:13:13 PM by DandyD »
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2019, 04:16:43 PM »
Quote from: DandyD on September 19, 2019, 04:08:51 PM
GVM ( sometimes GVW) is used too. Perhaps not in Australia.




Maybe so, but GVM refers to Gross Vehicle Mass & ATM refers to Aggregate Trailer Mass to avoid confusion (here in Aus)
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Offline Paddler Ed

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2019, 04:21:44 PM »
Quote from: RebsWA on September 19, 2019, 10:36:21 AM
I think you will find ATM is correct term for the total loaded weight of the trailer and includes tow ball mass.

Quote from: DandyD on September 19, 2019, 04:08:51 PM
Removed as talking bollox.

Quote from: RebsWA on September 19, 2019, 04:16:43 PM

Maybe so, but GVM refers to Gross Vehicle Mass & ATM refers to Aggregate Trailer Mass to avoid confusion (here in Aus)

It was 5 minutes before I was due at work 10minutes away... so I got a bit lost; I actually find GTM and ATM to be very confusing. In the UK, they use the term MAM - Maximum Authorised Mass, much simpler and can be used in all contexts.
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Offline #jonesy

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2019, 04:49:31 PM »
GTM is the axle mass on trailer (not counting ball weight)
ATM is the total. I think of it as ALL trailer mass, inc ball weight

I got out my ball scale and had a play. 4 different readings
Photo 1 is where I sit for the poly block.
A. Winding the jockey up =90
B. After A, rocking a frame side to side = 130 (not a very safe method)
C. After A giving the A Frame a gentle push down = 150
D. After A standing on A Frame and getting off (I'm about 70 kg) = 190.
E. As D + my 50 kg kid we got up to 240 and after we got of it reset to 190 (no photo)
 Doing all of the above the scale doesn't bounce up and down like bathroom scales

So I got out the bathroom scales and the actually gave a reading just over 130. The scale would keep going past 0 so it hadn't maxed out.

 
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Offline #jonesy

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2019, 04:53:38 PM »
.
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Offline DandyD

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2019, 05:06:40 PM »
Quote from: RebsWA on September 19, 2019, 04:16:43 PM

Maybe so, but GVM refers to Gross Vehicle Mass & ATM refers to Aggregate Trailer Mass to avoid confusion (here in Aus)

I realised that just after I posted. See my edit ;D
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Offline baz1

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2019, 05:28:54 PM »
Quote from: #jonesy on September 19, 2019, 04:49:31 PM
GTM is the axle mass on trailer (not counting ball weight)
ATM is the total. I think of it as ALL trailer mass, inc ball weight

I got out my ball scale and had a play. 4 different readings
Photo 1 is where I sit for the poly block.
A. Winding the jockey up =90
B. After A, rocking a frame side to side = 130 (not a very safe method)
C. After A giving the A Frame a gentle push down = 150
D. After A standing on A Frame and getting off (I'm about 70 kg) = 190.
E. As D + my 50 kg kid we got up to 240 and after we got of it reset to 190 (no photo)
 Doing all of the above the scale doesn't bounce up and down like bathroom scales

So I got out the bathroom scales and the actually gave a reading just over 130. The scale would keep going past 0 so it hadn't maxed out.

So the question is, are the towball scales remotely accurate?
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Offline Bird

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2019, 06:43:12 PM »
Quote from: baz1
So the question is, are the towball scales remotely accurate?

how longs a piece of string?
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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2019, 06:51:53 PM »
Quote from: Bird on September 19, 2019, 06:43:12 PM
how longs a piece of string?

Twice as long as half its' length.....
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Offline Rodt

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2019, 06:53:28 AM »
You hear regularly that there are knock-off towball scales that are pretty inaccurate and the consensus seems to be that as long as you stick to a name brand they aren't too bad.

I am usually more concerned with GVM and ATM weights (and consequently GCM) as this is what I don't want to exceed no matter what. This is dependant though on what vehicle I am using to tow as the Pajero has different towing capacities based on the ball weight. Obviously it is too hard for it to be simple  :'( 
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Offline #jonesy

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2019, 07:11:54 AM »
Quote from: Rodt on September 20, 2019, 06:53:28 AM
You hear regularly that there are knock-off towball scales that are pretty inaccurate and the consensus seems to be that as long as you stick to a name brand they aren't too bad.
The brand I used was Towsafe, which I thought was as name brand  Readings vary from 90 -190, depending how I used it. (Unfortunately I lost the instructions) It is in a as new condition. Haven't used it much and not got it wet etc.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 07:15:01 AM by #jonesy »
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Offline Rodt

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2019, 08:07:28 AM »
All good mate yes it is my understanding that Towsafe is a name brand. There are apparently knock-offs with the same or extremely similar name (I think maybe Tow-safe) that have caught some people
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Offline #jonesy

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2019, 01:06:24 PM »
I thought it was a good brand too, but as my earlier post shows the readings,without changing the trailer varied 90-190 kg, depending on how I measured it, without
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Offline DandyD

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2019, 05:03:10 PM »
Quote from: #jonesy on September 20, 2019, 01:06:24 PM
I thought it was a good brand too, but as my earlier post shows the readings,without changing the trailer varied 90-190 kg, depending on how I measured it, without

That looks very like the one I have. I've found mine consistent enough for me not to have noticed any inconsistency... if you see what I mean. The only problem I have had is that the painted on scale is rubbing off in the 45-75 range that I use most.

https://www.milenco.com/products/safety/noseweight-gauge

"This is the only Noseweight Gauge approved and calibrated to the British standard for these instruments. It offers calibrated precision, accuracy, reliability and technical superiority over other Noseweight Gauges. It has a clear large scale to ensure the precise and safe loading for this safety critical area, to ensure caravan stability when towing"
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Offline weeds

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Re: Do Weighbridges Usually Have Tow Ball Scales?
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2019, 05:48:19 PM »
I spotted a post where a guy made his own electronic tow ball scale using a load cell in indicator, wasn’t much more than a couple of hundred

Hmmm, I have eight load cells and one indicator in the shed at work.


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