Interesting read on electric cars

[Rodt]

I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these. I saw an article some time ago about a caravan awning being a flexible solar panel so it can be done.

Also have been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.

Just two ideas but I think it is this sort of innovation that will get this technology wider acceptance as the biggest opposition that I see at this stage is the fear of getting stranded.

[Pottsy]

I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these. I saw an article some time ago about a caravan awning being a flexible solar panel so it can be done.

Also have been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.

Just two ideas but I think it is this sort of innovation that will get this technology wider acceptance as the biggest opposition that I see at this stage is the fear of getting stranded.

Check out the Nissan XTrail E version touted for 2023, it has a ICE which powers a generator and regenerative braking and down hill running etc

[2Strokeit]

I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these.

Problem I can see with that is how do you reliably shut power down from one panel or zone  in an accident? Not just the power wire but every cell could spark. Has the runaway lithium battery fire problem been solved, it's been how many years?


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[GeoffA]

I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these. I saw an article some time ago about a caravan awning being a flexible solar panel so it can be done.

Also have been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.

Just two ideas but I think it is this sort of innovation that will get this technology wider acceptance as the biggest opposition that I see at this stage is the fear of getting stranded.

 

The laws of physics, and the fact that there is no free lunch would come into play......

[edz]

Been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.

Sort all the problems for cars / trucks / homes with a fingernail size pellet of basicaly harmless radioactive material to heat a closed circuit water system, to generate steam / power a small turbine make electricty .. the unit would be roughly the size of a milk crate plus a water tank and radiator ..
They do have micro reactors already, The issue is more about letting the radioactive material out into the public .

[Mace]

I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these. I saw an article some time ago about a caravan awning being a flexible solar panel so it can be done.

Feasible, but...

A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge.  That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel...  If you could get say 1200w capacity out of a vehicle roof space, that would take 25 hours to charge (at full panel capacity).  So to fully charge would likely take 3 to 4 days.

So integration of solar panels into a vehicle shell would assist, but perhaps not so much in the big picture.

New panel technology may change this.

 

[Fizzie]

Not disagreeing with you in any way, Mace, but a solar panel on the roof would certainly help keep the battery topped up. & if you're only doing short runs, it may be sufficient

[mumbls]

Feasible, but...

A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge.  That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel...  If you could get say 1200w capacity out of a vehicle roof space, that would take 25 hours to charge (at full panel capacity).  So to fully charge would likely take 3 to 4 days.

So integration of solar panels into a vehicle shell would assist, but perhaps not so much in the big picture.

New panel technology may change this.

 

That may be correct, but it would be interesting in the real world. My wife is a good example, she does 5ks to work and the car sits outside all day (8.5 hrs). Yes the car would need mains connection from time to time, but the panels should do the bulk of it. Be interesting to see how many commuters fit this profile? 

[Fizzie]

It would be an interesting one to check out

As Mace said: A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge.  That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel.

No arguments there, but looking at it incredibly simply , that 30kw = ~400k range, so 3kw = 40k & 1.5kw = 20k. Using that same 300w panel, that should be only 5 hours to recharge that 1.5kw!

[austastar]

Hi,
   An example of the limitations of driving on solar only is the Darwin to Adelaide solar challenge.
Not exactly a utilitarian vehicle.
Cheers

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[Robbo]

Here ya go, a simple electric truck.

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[poid]

It would be an interesting one to check out

As Mace said: A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge.  That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel.

No arguments there, but looking at it incredibly simply , that 30kw = ~400k range, so 3kw = 40k & 1.5kw = 20k. Using that same 300w panel, that should be only 5 hours to recharge that 1.5kw!

you're not getting 400km range out of a 30kw battery, nor the full 300w out of the panel. In Sydney a 300w would put out an average of 1.2kw a day across a year. A Tesla model 3 uses around 13-16kwh/100km for most people, depending on conditions and model. So less than 10km a day on average.

Fiskar is doing a whole roof panel for their Ocean SUV, and claim it can produce ~2,400km worth of charging a year if the car is in the sun the whole time. So that's ~6.5km a day of driving range on average. I don't think I'd be parking a Fiskar in the sun all day.

[MDS69]

I saw a meme somewhere recently, probably Facebook, saying along the lines that if you want to drive/own an EV you should be made to charge it via solar or a wind farm and not use mains power or generator etc. I like that way of thinking.

[gronk]

I saw a meme somewhere recently, probably Facebook, saying along the lines that if you want to drive/own an EV you should be made to charge it via solar or a wind farm and not use mains power or generator etc. I like that way of thinking.

The speed at which they are shutting fossil fuel power stations down, that idea may have to be mandatory !

[Mace]

The speed at which they are shutting fossil fuel power stations down, that idea may have to be mandatory !

People with home solar - like ourselves, are the most likely first adapters to EV's, so no issues with that.  With home solar approaching 25% of residents in some areas many will see the benefits of adding an EV battery to their solar set up at a far cheaper cost than a Power Wall. The new term is V2H - Vehicle to Home.

https://theconversation.com/can-my-electric-car-power-my-house-not-yet-for-most-drivers-but-vehicle-to-home-charging-is-coming-163332

A 13.5 kwh power wall costs $12k plus installation so about $16k all up.  A new EV will cost you $20-25k more than the comparable ICE vehicle and gives you at least 30kwh capacity and possibly 50kwh.   

On our radar...

 

[gronk]

People with home solar - like ourselves, are the most likely first adapters to EV's, so no issues with that.  With home solar approaching 25% of residents in some areas many will see the benefits of adding an EV battery to their solar set up at a far cheaper cost than a Power Wall. The new term is V2H - Vehicle to Home.

https://theconversation.com/can-my-electric-car-power-my-house-not-yet-for-most-drivers-but-vehicle-to-home-charging-is-coming-163332

A 13.5 kwh power wall costs $12k plus installation so about $16k all up.  A new EV will cost you $20-25k more than the comparable ICE vehicle and gives you at least 30kwh capacity and possibly 50kwh.   

On our radar...

 

How do you think that would work ?  You use the EV to go to work, come home and charge it ?  What with ?
And then you say you’ll use the EV battery as a power cell for your home ?

The solar on your roof can certainly power your home…during the day(if sunny )
The solar on your roof could also charge the EV ( if the system was big enough )….but the EV is at your work, and doesn’t come home till it’s nearly dark.
So now the dilemma is…..the EV needs charging….with grid power…and you’ll pay a lot more than the house kw/h price to charge it.
But you still have no home use for the EV battery as it’s charging ?

[alnjan]

Don't know how much truth there is to this article, it's on facebook and no factchecker has denied it yet so it must be true

I have rad else where the biggest issue with the fast charger sets ups is the conventional family hoe does not have the capacity to deliver a fast charge for the EV.   

For the rest of the story maybe someone from the area may be able to comment.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225541231970095&set=a.3978068002545

[Bird]

long live petrol and diesel!

[gronk]

long live petrol and diesel!

Yep, for a while yet !!
I don’t believe EV’s are the future…more a stop gap until the next “solution”..

Fuel cells, fusion , hydrogen, ..but not as we know them now.

[Fizzie]

long live petrol and diesel!

Think it depends on what you call "long"

10 years, yep definitely, beyond that I'm not too sure

& not too sure what it's going to mean for those of us that would usually be looking at replacing their car in that 10 years time

[NZMarkb]

10 years, yep definitely, beyond that I'm not too sure

Seriously, I remember in the 70's they were telling us oil was running out

[GeoffA]

Seriously, I remember in the 70's they were telling us oil was running out

...and another ice age was coming...

[NZMarkb]

...and another ice age was coming...

Yes I remember that too
The young fella’s at work look at me strangely when I talk about that 

[gronk]

...and another ice age was coming...

And now it’s climate change…..we’ll see what became of it in 40 years ?

Sorry, not me…I won’t be around !!

[Bird]

Seriously, I remember in the 70's they were telling us oil was running out

... and they were telling us nothing would save the Governor General