Re: Whats making news in 2019 edition

[weeds]

On pill testing, there is every chance the ones that have died might not have had the pill tested

For the ones that to present to the tent not only have the pill tested but are also around professionals giving advice, counseling, additional info, facts.....basically somebody to talk to without peer pressure.

If pill testing saves one life or one kid think twice or  one kid educated his mates than it a good thing.

As much as we try to influence our kids occasionally it goes wrong....peer group pressure is the biggest influence that we have little control over when they happen to be in that position.


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[Bird]

The issue with pill testing - they can test 50 and they can all pass...then you have the next 50 not tested are all lethal... What now? Its like LSD and Shit back in our day.. some dudes loved life, we have 1 mate who is still "out there" from a trip in the late 80's

one reason kids are on these pills is booze tax makes premix cans insanely priced... 1 pill $20... 1 6 pack of UDL's or similar $30+ and they need a slab to get happy.

[JD-120]

The same was said about heroin injecting rooms, yet they have saved countless lives(both from OD and HIV transmission), and that saves our health system big money. Its still illegal to possess and sell heroin. Same for other drugs including pills. We're fortunate, both our boys are older now, and never dabbled in any drugs. but when theyre young, you have no idea what they get up to. You can do so much as a parent, then hope you did enough. Theres no guarantees. If it will save someones child, then Im all for it. I couldnt imagine how devestated someone would be, getting a call saying their child is dead, having no idea they even dabbled in drugs. Its called empathy.
As for the Shit for brains. Well, calls for testing has come from the AMA amoungst others, but what would they know.

Nice to see a little common sense instead of throwing stones. I feel the exact same way Glen. Kids growing up, you can point then in the right direction but unfortunately you can't be with them 24 x 7 and you can not make all their decisions for them. We all learn from mistakes. It just so happens this mistake could very well be your last one.

Kids will experiment, at least they have the opportunity to do it slightly informed about what they are going to ingest.

I'm for it.

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[duggie]

I lost my son to illegal drugs , would have pill testing saved his life  ?

Probably not , most of the drug taking population wants a hit that is/was different to what they last had .

If a pill is tested, then so is the hit , to them , it becomes monotonous , so they increase the amount of drug/pill to change/ increase the hit. 


Some survive , some don't .

[Bigfish]

Nice to see a little common sense instead of throwing stones. I feel the exact same way Glen. Kids growing up, you can point then in the right direction but unfortunately you can't be with them 24 x 7 and you can not make all their decisions for them. We all learn from mistakes. It just so happens this mistake could very well be your last one.

Kids will experiment, at least they have the opportunity to do it slightly informed about what they are going to ingest.

I'm for it.

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Slightly informed.  Unless you have been living under a rock for 50 years I would reckon the avergae youngster of today is well informed about drugs. They are educated at school about them, responsible parents should be telling their kids about the stupidity of drugs, the newspapers, tv, radio and internet is full of stories about the dangers of drugs.  Empathy?...I have empathy for the families who have loved ones killed by drugged up drivers, for the families who have had cars stolen, property stolen, homes invaded, bashed for money and had their lives made miserable by the dogShit druggo,s.  Empathy for someone told not to take an illegal substance (many of these are over 20+years of age), know full well it could be deadly but take it anyway...empathy for the dickhead...none. Their parents yes.   Would you let your kids play Russian roulette with a live bullet...NO...because we know guns kill.  We also know drugs can kill yet people are happy to take a chance anyways.  Its called being responsible for your actions.  Something many people don't want to do and someone is always looking for someone else to blame. I,d rather see my taxes spent on cancer research than telling dipsticks what they already know ....DON'T DO DRUGS!!

[JD-120]

If a pill is tested, then so is the hit , to them , it becomes monotonous , so they increase the amount of drug/pill to change/ increase the hit. 

Sorry to hear that duggie.

The above exert makes sense to me. I suspect regular users may become complacent and push boundaries harder and more frequently.

Pill testing may actually be a great way to deter new users from taking that step. First timers at a concert being tempted yet still a little unsure may change their mind when they see what it's actually comprised of.

 1 life saved is a good result.

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[JD-120]

Slightly informed.  Unless you have been living under a rock for 50 years I would reckon the avergae youngster of today is well informed about drugs.

Apologies bigfish,.should of been a little more exact on my comment.

Slightly informed about what is in their drugs before taking it.

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[Pottsy]

The same was said about heroin injecting rooms, yet they have saved countless lives(both from OD and HIV transmission), and that saves our health system big money. Its still illegal to possess and sell heroin. Same for other drugs including pills. We're fortunate, both our boys are older now, and never dabbled in any drugs. but when theyre young, you have no idea what they get up to. You can do so much as a parent, then hope you did enough. Theres no guarantees. If it will save someones child, then Im all for it. I couldnt imagine how devestated someone would be, getting a call saying their child is dead, having no idea they even dabbled in drugs. Its called empathy.
As for the Shit for brains. Well, calls for testing has come from the AMA amoungst others, but what would they know.

Well said Glenn64, a well thought out response.
Having seen what the use of illegal drugs can do to relationships and the angst it can cause to families any effort to remove the risks and maybe help turn ones life around through the intervention of pill testing, injection rooms, replacement therapies etc must be explored.
Alcohol addiction, smoking and binge drinking can also be insidious and lead to long term health issues all of which are picked up by the General health system. Are we to stop offering help to those people as well?
Yes smoking is legal, yes drinking is legal and that will be the argument that some will come back with but it is no less a burden on public health. cancers, alcohol related disease, road accident victims due to DUIs etc etc
Yes the consumption of backyard drugs is risky, but by pill testing those risks can be mitigated just as we try to mitigate risks with smoking and drinking via anti smoking and drinking campaigns, roadside breath and drug testing etc.

[JusyApples]

The same was said about heroin injecting rooms, yet they have saved countless lives(both from OD and HIV transmission), and that saves our health system big money. Its still illegal to possess and sell heroin. Same for other drugs including pills. We're fortunate, both our boys are older now, and never dabbled in any drugs. but when theyre young, you have no idea what they get up to. You can do so much as a parent, then hope you did enough. Theres no guarantees. If it will save someones child, then Im all for it. I couldnt imagine how devestated someone would be, getting a call saying their child is dead, having no idea they even dabbled in drugs. Its called empathy.
As for the Shit for brains. Well, calls for testing has come from the AMA amoungst others, but what would they know.

Yet people still drop dead in kings cross on a daily basis from overdoses.


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[JD-120]

and the grim reaper ads didnt cure aids. Its about education.

[Bird]

and the grim reaper ads didnt cure aids. Its about education.

the your lungs are like a sponge ad didnt stop smokers killing themselves..

Majority of people will only listen to what they want to hear.  ' ... not all drugs are bad' so lets pop away

[callmejoe]

Not really in for pill testing myself. You do the crime you do the time.  buttttt.
If it was to happen,  a  test of a pill/powder what ever the substance is a record of the results should be recorded.

The results then can be used to form a trail on where the drugs are coming from, or made  It could also identify  the ingredients, which could also leave a trail eg a previous   robbery for that product etc..
It could lead to regularlites and patterns, which could become useful to find more " king pin"  figures..

[edz]

Reckon you could nearly bill some of them as the entertainment, How they think doing this Shite is good fun is beyond me  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuWZ06DmtCY ...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNBsss03N3Q 

[Kangaron]

A few beer too many is just as entertaining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKtoTxltN5I

[tryagain]

So the main reason they have pushed for kids not to take them is that you don't know what's in them, therefore it's too dangerous, but now we are saying we will test them first to make sure they are OK? What happens with the kids who are holding out against peer pressure saying it's unsafe, all of a sudden they pop a pill at a music festival as it was tested and then like the high which didn't cause any issues so they now do it again, next time though it's not a a music festival and not tested.

Seems like a measure that might save a few lives at music festivals but at a much greater cost.

[Rumpig]

Thequestion needs to be asked...if the music is so bad that you need to take pills to listen to it, why go listen to it in the first place?

[Hairs]

Thequestion needs to be asked...if the music is so bad that you need to take pills to listen to it, why go listen to it in the first place?

Spot on mate.


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[Hairs]

So the main reason they have pushed for kids not to take them is that you don't know what's in them, therefore it's too dangerous, but now we are saying we will test them first to make sure they are OK? What happens with the kids who are holding out against peer pressure saying it's unsafe, all of a sudden they pop a pill at a music festival as it was tested and then like the high which didn't cause any issues so they now do it again, next time though it's not a a music festival and not tested.

Seems like a measure that might save a few lives at music festivals but at a much greater cost.

I don't get the argument for testing.
On one hand you have an event saying they don't encourage drugs, you will be caught trying to get drugs in,
On the other, At the gate you can have your drugs tested.
WTF.

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[Bigfish]

I don't get the argument for testing.
On one hand you have an event saying they don't encourage drugs, you will be caught trying to get drugs in,
On the other, At the gate you can have your drugs tested.
WTF.

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Its the age of entitlement.  Although illegal and potentially dangerous, the dolts who want to use the drugs at venues, that have openly said they dont want drugs at the event, feel they should be exempt and above the law by having their illegal drugs tested so as to remain safe.  WTF indeed.

[xcvator]

You don't have a swimming test before you go to the beach, and that's a deadlier place than a rock concert   

[Paddler Ed]

You don't have a swimming test before you go to the beach, and that's a deadlier place than a rock concert   

What is an acceptable risk and what is an unacceptable risk? How do we mitigate some of those as much as possible?

Well, first of all the normal process is to identify the risk - one of the best risk assessments/management plans I ever did was when I asked the young people I was working with to do their own list of possible risks and hazards on a 2 day expedition. They highlighted cattle chasing them - not something that we ever thought of or included in our risk assessments as adults who had been in the outdoor education/activity sector for years, as well as coming from a rural background. Was that an outrageous one? No, in the UK cattle kill a couple of walkers a year so quite reasonable although unlikely. Likewise, in Australia the ABC released a bit the other week saying that cattle and horses were the biggest killers.

So based on that anecdote, if we look at how those are attending a festival or concert view the risks they are taking, what would they want to do to minimise their risks? They're going to do the party anyway, the drugs are part of that and what keeps them going for 14hrs+, so let's make it safer. If the government won't legalise the stuff, and therefore it's all made in a back room somewhere, let's make sure those people know what they're buying in the safest possible way.

People do different things to get their adrenaline highs - I tend to do something on my mountain bike or in the past whitewater kayaking and canoeing (which does also kill people), others do things involving driving fast/hard tracks etc - and this is just one of those things.

Most importantly, pill use is different to some of the other drug misuses, as it is not a daily habit - it's more likely to be a once in a while event, so the source can vary a lot... hence why testing is so important.

[duggie]

Illegal drugs are illegal .

Why are people trying to assist an illegal action?

Those who manufacture these drugs , they are breaking the law .

Those who are selling these drugs , they are breaking the law .

Those who are taking these drugs , are breaking the law .

Instead of assisting people to break the law . The laws need to change .

If a persons dies from taking illegal drugs , the person who sold them the drug should be charged with manslaughter .manslaughter. n. the unlawful killing of another person without premeditation or so-called "malice aforethought" ( Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony )

If the manufacturer is then found he/she should be charged with murder . Murder. n . is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse.


These people make and sell drugs with the full knowledge that they may/will kill .

[Bird]

Reckon you could nearly bill some of them as the entertainment, How they think doing this Shite is good fun is beyond me  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuWZ06DmtCY ...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNBsss03N3Q

**** Im crying LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bigfish]

What is an acceptable risk and what is an unacceptable risk? How do we mitigate some of those as much as possible?

Well, first of all the normal process is to identify the risk - one of the best risk assessments/management plans I ever did was when I asked the young people I was working with to do their own list of possible risks and hazards on a 2 day expedition. They highlighted cattle chasing them - not something that we ever thought of or included in our risk assessments as adults who had been in the outdoor education/activity sector for years, as well as coming from a rural background. Was that an outrageous one? No, in the UK cattle kill a couple of walkers a year so quite reasonable although unlikely. Likewise, in Australia the ABC released a bit the other week saying that cattle and horses were the biggest killers.

So based on that anecdote, if we look at how those are attending a festival or concert view the risks they are taking, what would they want to do to minimise their risks? They're going to do the party anyway, the drugs are part of that and what keeps them going for 14hrs+, so let's make it safer. If the government won't legalise the stuff, and therefore it's all made in a back room somewhere, let's make sure those people know what they're buying in the safest possible way.

People do different things to get their adrenaline highs - I tend to do something on my mountain bike or in the past whitewater kayaking and canoeing (which does also kill people), others do things involving driving fast/hard tracks etc - and this is just one of those things.

Most importantly, pill use is different to some of the other drug misuses, as it is not a daily habit - it's more likely to be a once in a while event, so the source can vary a lot... hence why testing is so important.

No...drugs are not part of that.  Majority of people do not do drugs. Only the stupid and criminals that sell or take drugs are affected.  How do we minimise the risk?  We have....its called education.  The people taking the drugs know too well the risks but decide to take a chance anyway.  If I put 6 pills in front of you and said they are all asprin bar one...would you take the risk?  I bet not.  These music venues do not want drugs at the event. It will force them to shut down after repeated dolts kill themselves through their own stupidity!   Why the hell would I want my tax money spent on trying to protect(its dubious if it would anyway) fools who buy illegal substances from criminals and know nothing of the chemical makeup but decide they,d risk their life anyway?  Plenty of people out with real problems that need a break rather than some loser doing drugs.

[Pottsy]

It would be interesting to see some hard data on the number of pills tested in relation to harmful vs non harmful and the number of users who did or did not take their pills after testing and being spoken too about the dangers.
I have no issue with pill testing if it prevents a death, some users would be naive, others reckless, peer pressure is a frightening force.
I also have no issue with the prosecution of those who manufacture and peddle this poison. Like many things the prosecution of the user is essential but it has little effect on the overall usage.
I'm not sure there would be any of us who haven't at one point done something illegal.
As adults we have all tried to educate and raise our children to the best of our abilities but we cannot protect them 24hours a day.
This may be seen as simplistic, we strive for zero road deaths but this is a goal which is unacheivable just based around the sheer numbers of vehicles on the road at any given time but we do everything thing we can to mitigate the number of deaths at an enormous cost to the community via policing, safety campaigns, better roads, driver training etc.
Similarly we do the same for drug and alcohol addictions and there are still deaths, we will not prevent them all but we should try to mitigate the number of deaths