Any Sparkies out there

[gronk]

That's why it is considered a specialist trade and regulated as such.
Like a lightbulb we will let the homeowner change a tap washer though no problems.

Ha ha...I think a tap washer is more complicated than a braided hose.

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

Go a bit further Gronk.
If there's a power socket in the roof space over the Bathroom, you can self-install an extractor fan.
Nearly all of them come with plugs on their lead now.
If you get one with no plug on the lead, it has to be fitted by a sparkie, in Vic..

[tryagain]

I read an article from about 5 yrs ago from memory, it compared a lot of other western countries (most of them allowing DIY wiring) to Australia where you aren't. Australia was statistically no better off accident wise, in fact, NZ which uses the same standards and allowed it was statistically safer than Australia. Call me sceptical but I have always thought it was as much about supply and demand and being able to keep charging the big $$$ as it is about safety. After all, if they allowed handymen to change the few wires of a light fitting then some (not all) sparkies would be undercut and have to reduce their prices drastically.

[BaseCamp]

USA - 110vt = usually won't kill ya...
AUST etc - 240vt = BBQ Chickens

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[Symon]

I read an article from about 5 yrs ago from memory, it compared a lot of other western countries (most of them allowing DIY wiring) to Australia where you aren't. Australia was statistically no better off accident wise, in fact, NZ which uses the same standards and allowed it was statistically safer than Australia. Call me sceptical but I have always thought it was as much about supply and demand and being able to keep charging the big $$$ as it is about safety. After all, if they allowed handymen to change the few wires of a light fitting then some (not all) sparkies would be undercut and have to reduce their prices drastically.

It wasn't in Silicon Chip was it? They were on a bit of a mission to allow DIY some years ago.

If you adjust for the differences in population then the NZ argument falls over as the per capita fatality rate is higher than Oz.  Even so there are still restrictions on DIY in NZ, it isn't a free for all.

The other thing is that if you exclude the NT then the per capita fatality rate drops significantly in Oz.

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[corndog]

USA - 110vt = usually won't kill ya...
AUST etc - 240vt = BBQ Chickens

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Grab hold of a 110vt supply and then tell me it won't kill ya.....   That's if you are still alive.

[BaseCamp]

yep!!

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[tryagain]

It wasn't in Silicon Chip was it? They were on a bit of a mission to allow DIY some years ago.

If you adjust for the differences in population then the NZ argument falls over as the per capita fatality rate is higher than Oz.  Even so there are still restrictions on DIY in NZ, it isn't a free for all.

The other thing is that if you exclude the NT then the per capita fatality rate drops significantly in Oz.

I can't remember where it was to be honest, I would have thought though if the figures weren't per capita I wouldn't have taken any notice of them at the time though, a quick google search brings up some old information but a lot of the figures would require deeper delving into the data to analyse for it for an accurate comparison, (and I can't be bothered but happy to look if someone already has). I am sure if you removed NZ worst province that would also skew the data, so I am not sure that removing the NT would make for a more accurate comparison.

Just had a look at what you are allowed to DIY in NZ https://worksafe.govt.nz/managing-health-and-safety/consumers/safe-living-with-electricity/getting-electrical-work-done/doing-your-own-electrical-work/ and I certainly wouldn't advocate for more than what they are allowed to do, but I do think their laws and approach of education over regulation are more common sense than ours.

[Symon]

The data is easy to find - http://erac.gov.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=94:accident-statistics&catid=82&Itemid=546

If the NT wasn't so disproportionately high with their stats I would agree with your thoughts,  but the numbers clearly show there is an issue there that isn't present in other states.

Having looked at the most recent data there isn't enough there to make a claim that NZ is any better or worse than AU.

I am an advocate of a certain amount of DIY, but not to the extent that NZ allows and certainly not what is permitted in the EU.

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[Troopy_03]

Go a bit further Gronk.
If there's a power socket in the roof space over the Bathroom, you can self-install an extractor fan.
Nearly all of them come with plugs on their lead now.
If you get one with no plug on the lead, it has to be fitted by a sparkie, in Vic..

Unless you fit your own 3 pin plug to it...

[gronk]

USA - 110vt = usually won't kill ya...


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Another big can of worms.....but any voltage above 50 to 60V ac is considered dangerous to your health. ( ie; may kill you )

Would I rather be hooked up to 110V compared to 240V......hell yeh, but I'm not sure I would live to tell the difference ??

[corndog]

Has been known to kill.  Original comment just another made by someone with no idea on the subject.

[macca]

So how are you going with your lights JD, or are you going to wait until the royal commission into them is complete..... might be waiting for a while yet

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[JD-120]

Got the $500 quote guy coming. Let there be light

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[tryagain]

The data is easy to find - http://erac.gov.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=94:accident-statistics&catid=82&Itemid=546

If the NT wasn't so disproportionately high with their stats I would agree with your thoughts,  but the numbers clearly show there is an issue there that isn't present in other states.

Having looked at the most recent data there isn't enough there to make a claim that NZ is any better or worse than AU.

I am an advocate of a certain amount of DIY, but not to the extent that NZ allows and certainly not what is permitted in the EU.

That is pretty digestible information, not really enough incidences to do any in-depth comparisons but on the surface, there isn't really much difference, so it would seem that allowing a level of DIY doesn't really create much if any of a safety issue in NZ and NZ would be on the generous side of things of what I think would be ideal to allow DIY to do too.

I can see from the graph what you mean in that the NT is definitely an outlier if you are doing a state-based comparison to NZ, but if you did a country level as they only account for about 5% of the accidents here it wouldn't make too much difference. I think that's where we were coming at it from different angles.

[Troopy_03]

Another big can of worms.....but any voltage above 50 to 60V ac is considered dangerous to your health. ( ie; may kill you )

Would I rather be hooked up to 110V compared to 240V......hell yeh, but I'm not sure I would live to tell the difference ??

Yep, a lot of variables involved. How dry  are your hands (sweaty etc), how thick and calloused is the skin where it contacts the voltage. Whether the current path is across your body, or just across a couple of fingers.

Worst shock I ever got was disconnecting something in an aircraft, many years ago. 115V @ 400Hz, but I was laying full length on the metal floor, and was covered in sweat at the time. That bl@@dy hurt.

Been bit by 240V mains a couple of times (knocked me on me bum, both times). One of those times was in a customers lounge room. I went to pick up a TV that had stopped working, and as slid my hand down behind the cabinet, to unplug it, boom, and I was seeing stars. Their bloody pet rabbit had chewed through the power lead, exposing bare wires. How the rabbit didn't get killed I don't know. The woman says "You nearly gave me a heart attack then" 

Been bit by 25,000VDC heaps, when working on old TVs and Radars (quickest way to wake you up in the morning LOL) Probably the worst one that scares the crap out of me, is people trying to fix their own Microwave ovens. About 5,000 volts available at a pretty decent current. And I've had a few people try to buy fuses off me to do it, but refused to sell to them.

As for voltages that are considered a danger to your health, that's why they fit VRDs to welders in workshops these days. To drop the welder's unloaded terminal output below 35VDC, and 25VAC. 

[Spada]

Based on how crowded the electrical isle in dumbings is on any given Sunday morning, I'd suggest there is already a fair amount of DIY being done ? Probably as much as NZ, but it's just not legal here.

anyway, we're about 47 pages off topic from the opening question..............................and thats a nice looking porch.

[JD-120]

Based on how crowded the electrical isle in dumbings is on any given Sunday morning, I'd suggest there is already a fair amount of DIY being done ? Probably as much as NZ, but it's just not legal here.

anyway, we're about 47 pages off topic from the opening question..............................and thats a nice looking porch.

Thanks spada, there's a new conqueror out the front of it now also . Finely got one after seeing yours at nymboida with markgu a few yrs back.

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[Spada]

Thanks spada, there's a new conqueror out the front of it now also . Finely got one after seeing yours at nymboida with markgu a few yrs back.

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Happy to help with and conqueror tips..................

[austastar]

. Their bloody pet rabbit had chewed through the power lead, exposing bare wires. How the rabbit didn't get killed I don't know.

Hi,
   Rabbits have a dry bite. Ours chewed through a 35A cable and blew the 15A circuit breaker with barely a scorched whisker.
You could smell the Ozone and scorch on his face though.
In the time that we had them, about 5 or 6 cables got severed despite our efforts to rabbit proof them.
Cheers


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[Rumpig]

Based on how crowded the electrical isle in dumbings is on any given Sunday morning, I'd suggest there is already a fair amount of DIY being done ? Probably as much as NZ, but it's just not legal here.

anyway, we're about 47 pages off topic from the opening question..............................and thats a nice looking porch.

why anyone would buy electrical stuff at Weekend Warrior World is beyond me, they can walk into a wholesaler and get it for half the price, and that’s without an account discount.

[tryagain]

why anyone would buy electrical stuff at Weekend Warrior World is beyond me, they can walk into a wholesaler and get it for half the price, and that’s without an account discount.

I think this can vary dramatically, I have walked into some wholesaler's and got much better prices than you can get at Bunnings, I have also walked into them when they have tried to charge 2-3x what bunnings charge, always best to know the cost of what you want as wholesalers seldom advertise their prices.

[macca]

Based on how crowded the electrical isle in dumbings is on any given Sunday morning, I'd suggest there is already a fair amount of DIY being done ? Probably as much as NZ, but it's just not legal here.

anyway, we're about 47 pages off topic from the opening question..............................and thats a nice looking porch.

When they want to charge $1400 to put four lights on a porch you can understand why there is so much DIY going on  if you were pushing top dollar you would be very lucky to have $200 worth of parts, i reckon with what i pay at a wholesaler it would be closer to $100

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[Bird]

Based on how crowded the electrical isle in dumbings is on any given Sunday morning, I'd suggest there is already a fair amount of DIY being done ?

Watch any TV "renno" show and its piss easy to do.. just throw this up there, cut that there, bang that on the wall, and shes done. Only takes an hour to rebuild 1/2 a house.

[#jonesy]

That is pretty digestible information, not really enough incidences to do any in-depth comparisons but on the surface, there isn't really much difference, so it would seem that allowing a level of DIY doesn't really create much if any of a safety issue in NZ and NZ would be on the generous side of things of what I think would be ideal to allow DIY to do too.

I can see from the graph what you mean in that the NT is definitely an outlier if you are doing a state-based comparison to NZ, but if you did a country level as they only account for about 5% of the accidents here it wouldn't make too much difference. I think that's where we were coming at it from different angles.

NT figures are skewed because of the population. At 1/4 million people, each death represents 4 per million. So the big spike showing 10 is really only 2 or 3.