Recovery strap oopsies.

[Pottsy]

I think the simple question is, "would you let your wife or child stand in the vicinity when using a snatch strap" I would think not, as it is inherently unsafe to do so.
So in the name of safety, you would use only rated recovery points, dampers and proper procedures to keep everyone safe including yourself.
Those who don't put themselves and others at risk of serious injury or death.

[Symon]

Did anyone actually look at the videos I posted before commenting?

Sure a damper may do something, but not enough in my opinion.  Especially if you have a bit of metal flying back at you.

[Bird]

Did anyone actually look at the videos I posted before commenting?

Sure a damper may do something, but not enough in my opinion.  Especially if you have a bit of metal flying back at you.

Looking at some dampers, I cant see how they work.. they velcro shut... I've never seen one go off in real life in anger, and dont want to.. I usually go a long way back from teh recovery unless Im either recovering or being recovered.. watch from a long distance.. shackles are ****in heavy, and at 350kph, theres no second chance.



PS... the tractor was going nowhere

[The punter]

Did anyone actually look at the videos I posted before commenting?

Sure a damper may do something, but not enough in my opinion.  Especially if you have a bit of metal flying back at you.

Your first video they were not using traditional dampers wrapped around the rope so they would not be as effective
The second video there is a marked difference in deceleration on the last example to my eyes, a great demo of how not to use one in the second example

I always use one, the delta you describe as "something" may just be enough to save a life, I'll take it every time.

[corndog]

Only seen one snatch strap let go. Was at the first crossing of the Old Telegraph Track. The day before Hero was there with his big mud tyres, his diff lockers and his attitude and ripped the Shite out of the track by crossing over and over. Next day a guy bogged at the bottom. Out came a snatch strap. It didn't look fit for purpose to me  and I thought maybe better a winch strap and help pull him out. Well first attempt the car didn't budge and with no dampener the strap let go in the middle. No one was hurt which was the main thing. I watched maybe another 10 cars being pulled out with the extension strap. Thing is a snatch strap is not always the way to go. Whatever you use should be in good condition and rated to its use. And have a think of how it can be done in a  safe way. A big problem is people don't know or don't think when using gear like this.

[Charlie Brown]

But if the strap then breaks anywhere in the middle (not as common but certainly not unheard of) then your dampeners will virtually be redundant.

The recommendation to use two dampeners, one at each end, is to slow down the attachment point and/or shackle, not necessarily the strap.  I acknowledge that a broken strap on its own can cause an injury simply because of the force and speeds involved.  Certainly would injure a bystander.  But a busted strap,  broken in the middle, that is just a strap on its own which is reduced in length, and has no weight at the end, not even a loop to add weight, is very unlikely to come rocking through a windscreen or rear window.  The strap is wide and flat and fairly light, not heavy and with its mass spread along its length. Its mass is not concentrated like a busted attachment point or shackle.  Anyway that is my opinion.

[tryagain]

The recommendation to use two dampeners, one at each end, is to slow down the attachment point and/or shackle, not necessarily the strap.  I acknowledge that a broken strap on its own can cause an injury simply because of the force and speeds involved.  Certainly would injure a bystander.  But a busted strap,  broken in the middle, that is just a strap on its own which is reduced in length, and has no weight at the end, not even a loop to add weight, is very unlikely to come rocking through a windscreen or rear window.  The strap is wide and flat and fairly light, not heavy and with its mass spread along its length. Its mass is not concentrated like a busted attachment point or shackle.  Anyway that is my opinion.

That makes a bit more sense, although if someone is safety conscious enough to be using two dampeners, then chances are they are using rated shackles and attachment points so the probability of those giving way before the strap would be extremely low, if for some reason you decided to  pull someone out though and they didn't have a rated attachment point, then putting one on their end would make sense (although offering to help may not) .

[Symon]

Your first video they were not using traditional dampers wrapped around the rope so they would not be as effective

In one test it was a 4.5kg sandbag, which got thrown up and hit the tractor window.  You are saying that is less effective than a flap of canvas?

I have broken dozens of straps, and the main reason for that is I only use the smaller 8t straps instead of the 15t or higher ones which in my opinion should never be needed in a 4WD recovery.  You want the strap to be the weakest link, I'm totally comfortable with a strap breaking as long as the recovery points and the shackles stay intact.

As shown in the videos, tag lines are far more effective than dampers.  Those in this thread puffing up their chests about safety should be pushing those instead of flaps of canvas that have dubious effectiveness.

[tryagain]

I think if you really wanted the safest way, what would work better than the fold over the top dampener is a decent rope used as a tether, attached independently to the shackle/tie down point at each end, and tied/attached at 1/3 and 2/3 of the way along the strap with about 30% slack allowed (to allow for the about 25% stretch) between the ends and where it is tied on as well as the two tied/attached points, It should work to arrest any break, wherever it may occur.

[filcar]

I think if you really wanted the safest way, what would work better than the fold over the top dampener is a decent rope used as a tether, attached independently to the shackle/tie down point at each end, and tied/attached at 1/3 and 2/3 of the way along the strap with about 30% slack allowed (to allow for the about 25% stretch) between the ends and where it is tied on as well as the two tied/attached points, It should work to arrest any break, wherever it may occur.

or use purpose made equipment ...

http://www.comsew.com.au/products/snatch-straps/

[GBC]

https://youtu.be/oD2zci3qfgE

This is closer to my experience. It is winch cable rather than a snatch strap, but you can see how they work. Before dampeners we were taught to use a towel tied around it. The test uses a fail point on the car. You are looking for how the cable shoots back at the tree. A simple flap at 1/3 from the recovered vehicle. As stated prior, this mimics what I was watching with the snatch strap and shackle at the display.
I suppose the main thing is something is always better than nothing, and putting something half way along achieves nothing much.

[filcar]

Shackle Vs gumtree ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxQy1E4CCWs

[Metters]

People put far too much emphasis on dampers.  On wire rope they make sense, but not on dyneema and certainly not on snatch straps. 

About eight years ago I found something on the net from that I think from memory was from the SA 4wd Association.  They said they had deleted instructions on using dampers from their training manuals because their testing had shown they don't work.  The testing in the first link that you posted showed what a strap could do with a 10 lb bag of sand.  Who knows where it would have gone had one been on each end. 

The first thing I thought of when I saw that video was where is the protection for the tractor driver?  He certainly needed it in the last scene.  It may not have been a happy ending if the strap had a shackle on the end of it.  Many people inside cars have been killed with these straps.

I would like to see those tests done again with the usual car type recovery points on the back of the dozer and tractor and shackles on the strap.  It could be done with and without dampers.  You would need steel plates covering the back of both vehicles first

[corndog]

People put far too much emphasis on dampers.  On wire rope they make sense, but not on dyneema and certainly not on snatch straps.

Think about how much energy is in a strap when it breaks, what do you think that pissy little bit of canvas is going to do for you?

We had a rope break whilst winching cables at work once and though it was thicker than dyneema I was very impressed by the indentation left in the steel sheet that covered the brick wall where it hit..  As for using a damper I would rather have one or two on there than none at all. It might not stop a flying shackle but it might slow a rope down and doing less damage.

[Symon]

We had a rope break whilst winching cables at work once and though it was thicker than dyneema I was very impressed by the indentation left in the steel sheet that covered the brick wall where it hit..  As for using a damper I would rather have one or two on there than none at all. It might not stop a flying shackle but it might slow a rope down and doing less damage.

If you are talking about wire rope I fully agree with you.  Having dampers on wire rope makes sense, it doesn't on dyneema as synthetic rope doesn't store anywhere near as much energy and whilst it may recoil it certainly is not as dangerous.  My argument is that there is much more energy in a snatch strap, so much so that the typical dampers that people use are near useless.

[corndog]

We were using  synthetic rope . A damper wouldn't have helped much in our situation but for a synthetic rope to make an indentation like it did was hard to believe. I think the damper is not to stop the rope from flying through the air but to drag it down to the ground to help slow it down and if it helps even a little bit why not just put it on in case.

[The punter]

typical dampers that people use are near useless.

Are you basing this on opinion or science?

[shanegtr]

Did anyone actually look at the videos I posted before commenting?

Sure a damper may do something, but not enough in my opinion.  Especially if you have a bit of metal flying back at you.

From some of the replys I was thinking the same thing. If a strap on its own can shift a sand bag that easily, what chance does a damper have of remotely slowing a shackle down enough? I think a secondary tether to the shakle secured to a seperate point on the vehicle would be far more effective at not only slowing the shakle, but would have more of a chance of actually arresting a flying piece of metal before it hits the other vehicle - isnt that a more sensible option compared to just trying to slow it down?