Power and gas is to expensive.

[gronk]

Power storage is likely to drop in price a whole lot in the near future which will likely see solar and wind plus storage being cheaper

What have we at the moment for power storage ??

A couple of AAA's in south australia and a small hydro in qld that can pump back up again.

[DrewXT]

What have we at the moment for power storage ??

A couple of AAA's in south australia and a small hydro in qld that can pump back up again.

Snowy Hydro and Tassie Hydro as well

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[gronk]

Snowy Hydro and Tassie Hydro as well

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Tassie power doesn't help us over here and snowy hydro at best just ticks over in summer due to low water levels. I think you can google the snowy scheme and see how many turbines are working at any given time !

[tryagain]

I meant clean nukes, not coal fired... Rather than lease our uranium and bring it back to have to dispose of it from dirty reactors, we could build cleaner reactors than those we lease to, and dispose of what we use ourselves

OK, that then makes more sense, I think the issue with Nuclear is cost and time to construct, if they had started building them 10yrs ago it would probably be a different scenario but I think the horse has bolted now as wind and solar plus storage is probably already cheaper than Nuclear, and their price trend is continuing down. That's all without considering Fukushima

We are lucky in that we have plentiful, coal, uranium, sunlight for solar, the raw materials used in lithium batteries etc here in Australia for power generation and storage, probably just don't have the rainfall to make hydro viable in too many places.

[DrewXT]

Tassie power doesn't help us over here and snowy hydro at best just ticks over in summer due to low water levels. I think you can google the snowy scheme and see how many turbines are working at any given time !

AEMO have been showing Tassie exporting to the mainland at anything up to 15% of their capacity lately...

Their dashboard is quite intriguing to watch some days...

I'm just hoping that the 10kW system we're having installed this week gets rid of our power bill and hopefully our gas and water bills if I've calculated correctly...

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[tryagain]

Tassie power doesn't help us over here and snowy hydro at best just ticks over in summer due to low water levels. I think you can google the snowy scheme and see how many turbines are working at any given time !

Tumit 3 is pumped hydro and there is the Shoalhaven hydropower station and the kidston pumped hydro you mentioned and the snowy 2.0 are in the pipeline as well as batteries but it's all relatively small so far compared to what will be needed.

[Fizzie]

Tassie power doesn't help us over here

AEMO have been showing Tassie exporting to the mainland at anything up to 15% of their capacity lately...

As drew says - Tassie does help NSW, just not directly.

Have a look at https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#nem-dispatch-overview, which shows virtually live data on where power is flowing at any time.

Right now, Vic has 5380MW demand, but is only generating 5350 itself. They are also receiving 56MW from SA + 77 from Tas, which is then allowing Vic to export 103MW into NSW, who is ~740 down on generation compared to demand (the rest is coming into NSW from Qld)

[Fizzie]

probably just don't have the rainfall to make hydro viable in too many places.

A lot of the pumped hydro plants they've been talking about are't going to rely on rainfall. The first plant currently under construction in SA is on the edge of the Bight so will be working on sea water.

According to NEMWatch (which is another fun site that shows what type of generation is actually happening at any time) https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/, hydro is currently at 1132MW in Tas, 965 Vic, 136 NSW & 153 in Qld

[tryagain]

A lot of the pumped hydro plants they've been talking about are't going to rely on rainfall. The first plant currently under construction in SA is on the edge of the Bight so will be working on sea water.

Yeah that's the difference between hydo which is what I was talking about Australia not having an abundance of possibilities of Hydro, pumped hydro is a different story. It has it's own environmental issues though.

[Fizzie]

Yeah that's the difference between hydo which is what I was talking about Australia not having an abundance of possibilities of Hydro, pumped hydro is a different story. It has it's own environmental issues though.

Sorry - misinterpreted

Yes, there will be issues with PH, but everything says it has a much smaller footprint, which, in the majority of cases, won't involve flooding mountain valleys, so should be easier to get moving

[tryagain]

Sorry - misinterpreted

Yes, there will be issues with PH, but everything says it has a much smaller footprint, which, in the majority of cases, won't involve flooding mountain valleys, so should be easier to get moving

I personally can't see to much of it happening, most of the suitable sites what would also be considered areas of natural beauty and can't see people being happy to build them there, the fact that we have built so few dam's in recent times I think gives a glimpse of the environmental issues that will have to be faced, my guess would be predominantly Lithium Batteries. With some other's like pumped hydro thrown in  here and there.
The plus will be we will probably all have cheap lithium batteries in our campers in 5+ yrs time, much like we now have cheap solar panels.

[austastar]

Hi,
    Pumped hydro can have minimal impact in some cases.
With sequential dams in a scheme, pumping water back up during periods of low demand can recharge the source supply.
It costs more in water, but can deliver higher peak loads if needed.
Cheers

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[Bird]

Meanwhile the successful countries just ****in do it while AU just sits on their arse talking Shit, and polly sscared of offending voters

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/china-coal-fired-power-station-buildup-2018-9


then again with our Shit pollys - one party would take the initiate to start building - the opposition would get in next election and stop it. and like now, we'd get nowhere.

[gronk]

Pumped hydro works in some countries like Demark because they can use "free" power  ( windmills ) to pump the water back up.
In a situation like the snowy, you are using power to pump it back up....when it could be used for the grid. If you pump during low demand, as said you waste water ( would be nice to only use as much as you pump, but it's not possible )

If anyone saw the massive water going over barron falls the other day, then there is the sort of water you need to fill a dam.

[macca]

Why cant we use windmills?

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[Pete79]

Why cant we use windmills?

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Because they’re ugly...... apparently....

[macca]

Because they’re ugly...... apparently....

What the Danes or their windmills?

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[Pete79]

What the Danes or their windmills?

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Haha, Danes have some good stock.

I was just quoting the former minister for ‘science is crap’....

Tony Abbott has launched another attack on "ugly", "noisy" wind turbines, and it appears a trip to an island off Perth contributed to his dislike of the renewable energy generators.

Mr Abbott is clearly not a fan of the visual impact.

"Frankly it's right and proper we've reduced the Renewable Energy Target because as things stood there was going to be an explosion of these things right around our country," Mr Abbott said.

"There will still be some growth but it will be much less than it would otherwise have been thanks to measures this Government has taken."

[macca]

Haha, Danes have some good stock.

I was just quoting the former minister for ‘science is crap’....

Yeah, all TIC Pete,  my son inlaw is Danish it actually gets embarrassing talking to him sometimes, for a small country they are a lot more advanced than us in a lot of things. He just laughs and shakes his head at some of procrastination that our pollies go on with. I'll check out the windmills appearance when I go over in July and report back to ScoMo, if hes still in power

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[Pete79]

Yeah, all TIC Pete,  my son inlaw is Danish it actually gets embarrassing talking to him sometimes, for a small country they are a lot more advanced than us in a lot of things. He just laughs and shakes his head at some of procrastination that our pollies go on with. I'll check out the windmills appearance when I go over in July and report back to ScoMo, if hes still in power

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I was over there last year enjoying their summer for a couple of weeks. Beautiful country and great people.
Enjoy.

[rags]

If you pump during low demand, as said you waste water ( would be nice to only use as much as you pump, but it's not possible )

But that is the feature of SMH, it is more than a power plant. The original idea behind the scheme was for irrigation, power generation was a bonus outcome. No water is wasted as after the water passes through one of the 5 power stations it gets stored in either the Khancoban dam or Blowering dam before it is controlled released down river to serve both the Murray and Murrumbidgee irrigation network (and some conservation flows down the Snowy River).

[gronk]

But that is the feature of SMH, it is more than a power plant. The original idea behind the scheme was for irrigation, power generation was a bonus outcome. No water is wasted as after the water passes through one of the 5 power stations it gets stored in either the Khancoban dam or Blowering dam before it is controlled released down river to serve both the Murray and Murrumbidgee irrigation network (and some conservation flows down the Snowy River).

What was meant, the wasted water is what gets used to power the the pumps for repumping uphill. The water that goes downstream might be good for irrigation, but can't be reused for power generation.
During summer, not a lot gets used for either....all the snow has melted and unless good rains have added to the dams, most of the turbines are idle.

[rags]

What was meant, the wasted water is what gets used to power the the pumps for repumping uphill. The water that goes downstream might be good for irrigation, but can't be reused for power generation.
During summer, not a lot gets used for either....all the snow has melted and unless good rains have added to the dams, most of the turbines are idle.

I haven't studied the scheme in recent years but did spend  a lot of time there in the 1980s with access to inspect with some people who worked at Cabramurra and Talbingo (Tumut ponds)
It was my understanding that there is only 1 pumping station which pumps water from Jindabyne through to the Snowy-Geehi Tunnel.
There is also a second pump  at Tumut 3 Power Station which can return water to Talbingo Reservoir.
The 7 power stations are effectively gravity feed, and it is why it is considered one of the worlds best engineering feats.

[tryagain]

What was meant, the wasted water is what gets used to power the the pumps for repumping uphill. The water that goes downstream might be good for irrigation, but can't be reused for power generation.
During summer, not a lot gets used for either....all the snow has melted and unless good rains have added to the dams, most of the turbines are idle.

If you haven't already seen it  (think I have posted it before) this vid is a good overview of SMH/Tumit 3/Pumped storage, from my understanding Snowy 2.0 is basically installing the pumps to pump some of that water back up the hill when power is cheap to then release it again when the grid prices are high. This normally happens now in the wee hours when the coal stations are still firing but there isn't much demand but will come from wind and solar in the future.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-21/pumped-hydro-renewable-energy-sites-australia-anu-research/8966530

I should clarify I think the video is good but think the article about professor Blakers is deeply floored.

[rags]

An interesting article on Snowy 2.0 published today on ABC
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-30/snowy-hydro/10683112