Author Topic: Power and gas is to expensive.  (Read 241954 times)

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Offline Pete79

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #375 on: September 05, 2018, 10:17:02 AM »
Getting off topic, but in response to the above....

"Just how important is the mining industry to our economy?
Short answer: not nearly as much as it wants us to believe, and has conned our politicians into believing.

Because people like me have spent so much time over the past decade and more banging on about the resources boom, we've probably left many people with an exaggerated impression of the sector's importance.
It's true that, thanks to a quadrupling in the value of its physical capital, mining now accounts for about 7 per cent of our total production of goods and services (gross domestic product), compared with less than 5 per cent in 2004, at the start of the boom.

But 7 per cent ain't all that much, and if you measure mining by how much of our workforce it employs, it's even less: 2 per cent.
That's just 230,000 people, about as many as are employed in the arts and recreation.

It compares with 300,000 workers in agriculture, 400,000 in financial services, 800,000 in accommodation and food services, 900,000 in manufacturing, almost a million in education, a million in construction, another million in professional services, 1.2 million in retailing and 1.5 million in healthcare.

Still think the economy revolves around mining?

How can an industry account for 7 per cent of our production but only 2 per cent of our jobs? Because it's so "capital intensive" - it uses a lot of expensive equipment, but not many humans.

Because it employs so few people directly, the industry is always paying "independent" economic consultants to estimate how many people it employs "indirectly" as dollars earned from mining are spent in other parts of the economy.

This is always a good way to impress judges - who know a lot about law, but little about economics - when you're trying to persuade them to let you despoil the environment.
It's true that money earned from mining has a "multiplier effect" when spent. But it's just as true of money earned from any other industry. Or money spent by the government.
Normally I'd be happy to defend an industry against the idea that it didn't contribute much because its capital intensity meant it directly employed few workers.
That's because what matters most is how much income the industry earns from its production. When that income is spent - by employees, suppliers, tax-receiving governments or profit-earning shareholders - jobs will be created somewhere in the economy.

In the case of mining, however, there's weakness in the argument.
Our mining industry is about 80 per cent foreign-owned - mainly by BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto and Glencore - which, in econospeak, adds a huge "leakage" to the "circular flow of income" around our economy. (Another leakage is that most of the heavy equipment the miners and natural gas producers use is imported.)

If most of the profits made by our (highly profitable) mining industry don't belong to us and end up being spent in some other economy, this greatly reduces the economic benefit we get.
Which makes it doubly important the mining companies are paying a fair rate of tax on their earnings in Oz.

Here, the industry often pays "independent" economic consultants to write reports showing what huge amounts of tax it pays.
But these usually rely on the legal fiction that the minerals royalties the miners pay to state governments are a tax.
In economics, a tax is something you pay the government for nothing specific in return (if you are paying for something specific, it's a "user charge").

Royalties are a user charge.
The miners are buying access to valuable mineral deposits owned by us. Royalties are levied on different bases but, overall, they're probably charging less than the minerals are worth.

So the miners shouldn't expect brownie points for paying for the minerals we hand over to them. The Rudd government did try to ensure we taxed their profits more fairly and adequately but, as you recall, the miners objected and so Tony Abbott abolished what was left of the tax.

But, whatever their profits, they're paying 30 per cent of them in company tax, right?
Right in theory but, as we've realised, in practice not so much.

Our big foreign mining companies are heavily into minimising the tax they pay by moving profits offshore, claiming to do their "marketing" in Singapore, where the tax rate is lower.
All of which makes you wonder how well we do from our foreign-dominated mining industry, considering all the environmental and economic disruption we have to put up with.

But it's worse than that. Our politicians, state and federal, are so desperate to create the temporary appearance of progress and jobs that mining projects bring - and, no doubt, to say thanks for the generous political donations the miners make - that they often use the offer of hefty subsidies to attract them.

The subsidy comes in the form of governments building railways, ports and other infrastructure on the miners' behalf. (Not to mention the federal government's exemption of mining from paying the diesel fuel excise, worth billions a year.)

Take the Indian Adani company's proposed Carmichael coal mine in central Queensland, which is so huge it would lower the world price of coal, to the disadvantage all existing Australian coal miners.
Queensland's Newman government was so keen to use the project as proof of progress it offered Adani a "royalty holiday". Now the Turnbull government is offering a $1 billion-plus concessional loan in the name of developing Northern Australia.

Both the miners and the politicians indignantly deny the industry receives any subsidies. But that's not what the West Australian and Queensland treasuries say in their submissions to the Commonwealth Grants Commission, revealing how poor the mining companies keep them.

If the nation is ahead on the mining deal, it ain't by a lot."

Source; https://www.smh.com.au/business/minings-economic-contribution-not-as-big-as-you-might-think-20170203-gu4r5l.html

To be clear, I'm not apposed to mining.
I am apposed to miners freely getting their way with our weak as water politicians and not paying us what they should be.
And in turn (as the article above points out) sections of the public are lead to believe the mining industry (as it is right now) are the saviors of our economy. Which clearly it is not.

But to get back on track.
The "look over there" tactics are employed on both sides of this energy debate.
I'm interested to note that putting up the running cost of an existing old technology power station against the cost of developing a new technology and building new modern power plants is seen as a fare augment about our country's future by some people.


Offline paceman

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #376 on: September 05, 2018, 10:33:24 AM »
I'm interested to note that putting up the running cost of an existing old technology power station against the cost of developing a new technology and building new modern power plants is seen as a fare augment about our country's future by some people.

keeping the older plants running as long as possible is a sensible part of a long-term transition strategy:

https://www.afr.com/news/politics/prolong-the-life-of-coalfired-power-stations-in-the-national-electricity-market-says-australian-energy-market-operator-20180716-h12r9n

a snippet from the article (emphasis mine):

Quote
the Australian Energy Market Operator's plan to be released on Tuesday warns against the early retirement of coal-fired power plants, saying they provide essential low-cost energy as well as stability in the power system.

"Maintaining existing coal-fired generation up to the end of its technical life is a key element of a low-cost approach," the report said.


closing them down (ie: Hazelwood) is largely a money-making exercise by private companies, who are not interested in providing cheap, reliable and plentiful power to consumers.

like any private company, their first loyalties lie with shareholders.

Offline BC66

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #377 on: September 05, 2018, 11:11:07 AM »
Hi guys
Lots of passionate responses here. Have any of you registered with Clean Energy Council ?
http://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/cec.html
Lots of interesting points and they often have webinar on the hot topics.
The day before the news about the new Prime-minister there was a webinar about the coal mines and the possibility of ending the STC program which will have a massive effect in the solar industry and how the Vic gov is offering terrific deals on new solar installations.
For those that are unsure of what an STC is , it’s a rebate paid back to offset the cost of a new solar installation. The Federal gov wants them to end which to the home owner equates to approx an extra $3500 additional cost to a 5kw system
The Gov has actually asked that sales of coal mines to end and that the owners keep them running.
Where I work we supply Energex and I once asked a cheeky question to them saying with all the solar coming on board, why is my power bill getting more expensive?
The answer is because of the solar inputs
New substations and infrastructure are needed, the electricity companies make money selling us power and with less people buying power, the expense to provide to us without solar has to go up because Power Stations still cost money to run.
It’s a vicious circle


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Offline Paddler Ed

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #378 on: September 05, 2018, 11:46:59 AM »
The knock on effect to regional economies is interesting; I know of a few companies that have suffered because they've lost tradies to the mines after investing time and money into their development:
https://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/story/5625931/uphill-battle-to-stop-drain-of-skilled-workers-to-the-mines/?cs=159

OK, it's Barnyard's publicity piece, but there are valid points....

A response of pay them more isn't go to wash; unfortunately most regional companies can't afford to pay more to retain staff, the big mining companies have skewed the markets that much.

Offline Rumpig

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #379 on: September 05, 2018, 06:44:39 PM »
I used to get a cheque once a year for about $800.  Now I get about $300...Still better than paying.  This was probably one of the smarter things I have done..
we used to get about $350 back each quarter several years ago, last quarter we had a $140 bill....might be time to add a few more panels I reckon. Our inverter is bigger then the amount of panels we fitted to the house originally in order not to effect us adding on down the track, bit of future planning on our behalf.
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Offline BC66

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #380 on: September 05, 2018, 06:47:59 PM »
If you change your system you will void the rebate tarrif and go on the current rates


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Offline Rumpig

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #381 on: September 05, 2018, 06:52:01 PM »
If you change your system you will void the rebate tarrif and go on the current rates


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not an issue for us i believe....we signed up for a bigger solar system then we currently run, the inverter size is what it is about and we aren't changing that, we never fitted the maximum amount of panels we could of originally.
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Offline jwb

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #382 on: September 05, 2018, 06:52:28 PM »
Shhhhhhhhh
He won't tell em! :))

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Cheers

Jwb

Offline tryagain

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #383 on: September 05, 2018, 07:54:29 PM »
not an issue for us i believe....we signed up for a bigger solar system then we currently run, the inverter size is what it is about and we aren't changing that, we never fitted the maximum amount of panels we could of originally.

Based on ads I have seen for used panels, they seem to replace the whole lot so all the panels are the same, don't know enough about RT solar though to know if it's a necessity or just a upsell though.

Offline glenm64

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #384 on: September 05, 2018, 08:03:42 PM »
not an issue for us i believe....we signed up for a bigger solar system then we currently run, the inverter size is what it is about and we aren't changing that, we never fitted the maximum amount of panels we could of originally.
You can over clock most inverters by around 25 - 30%. Your inverters rated output wont be exceeded, but by splitting the orientation of them you will get a longer output duration.

Cheers Glen

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Offline Rumpig

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #385 on: September 05, 2018, 08:22:35 PM »
You can over clock most inverters by around 25 - 30%. Your inverters rated output wont be exceeded, but by splitting the orientation of them you will get a longer output duration.

Cheers Glen
we can do that but don't need to, we have a 4KW inverter only running 3KW of panels...have the space to add more panels, just didn't see the need to have that many when we originally installed them years ago. The one thing we do need to do is run another line to the inverter for the extra panels, apparently we can't piggy back off what is already there.....can't remember exact reason why now, but think that line is at it's limit maybe.
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #386 on: September 05, 2018, 08:57:18 PM »
Finally the engineers are coming out and saying it-

"Electricity bills will soar and gas and coal-fired power stations will close if the share of wind and solar generation increases dramat­ically, engineers have warned after analysing the nation’s ­energy supply.
The analysis casts doubt on Labor’s claim that a 50 per cent renewable energy target — the centrepiece of the opposition’s climate change policy — would reduce electricity prices.
It found bills were likely to soar 84 per cent, or about $1400 a year, for the typical household, if wind and solar power supplied 55 per cent of the national electricity market.

The analysis by a group of veteran engineers — written and funded by five mechanical, chemical, electrical and nuclear engineers, with decades of experience in the power industry — was sent to premiers, federal cabinet ministers and shadow cabinet late last month."

(via Adam Creighton-Economics Editor, The Australian, 5th Sept)
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline arjay

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #387 on: September 05, 2018, 09:41:28 PM »
It's not rocket science - no sun, no wind = no power.
Ooh - that's why the pollies can't see it

Offline Pete79

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Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #388 on: September 05, 2018, 09:57:14 PM »
Finally the engineers are coming out and saying
Hmmm... Interesting...
I don’t give any of my money to Rupert, so can’t read the full article and see which “think tank” funded that report.

Here’s another report from an actual official legitimate organization for actual engineers.
Quote
The Institution of Engineers, Australia was first established in 1919, as a result of the amalgamation of 12 existing engineering societies in Australia. From their Web site, July 2002: "The Institution of Engineers Australia (IEAust) is the largest and most diverse engineering association in Australia, with approximately 60 000 members.

So what do these professionals say on this topic?

“Australia’s electricity market consumption is expected to remain relatively flat for the next 20 years, but our power stations are old and will struggle to continue to fuel demand.
The projection was made in the Australian Institution of Engineers “The Future of Australian Electricity Generation Report” which was published yesterday.

The report, penned by Mark Stewart, said that Australia’s electricity market recently experienced a fall in demand for power and that it is expected to remain relatively flat .
This is due to industry restructuring and greater public awareness of energy conservation, which has altered consumer behaviour. If things stay as they are, Australia’s power stations will continue to produce enough electricity to fuel peak demand, and no additional generation capacity is expected to be required for the next seven to 10 years unless existing generators close.
But these findings are not likely to have any effect on spot and futures prices and Australia continues to pay some of the highest electricity rates as shown in this report. The Federal Government dragged its feet in finding solutions and the announcement of 11th hour gas deals, the expansion of Snowy Hydro and new investments are not likely to drive spot and futures prices in the short-term.
 
“Policy makers must realise that a transitional approach is necessary, recognising that ageing coal plants will need to be replaced with considerations to Australia’s global commitments to emission reductions”
The majority of these high capacity power plants are fuelled by high emitting fossil fuels, and are major contributors to Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions. This is incompatible with Australia’s greenhouse gas emission reduction targets.
The Chamber called for politicians to sit up and take notice of what is going on around them and to act ahead of the inevitable mothballing of the dirt, ageing plants.
“Policy makers must realise that a transitional approach is necessary, beginning with the recognition that these plants will need to be replaced with considerations to Australia’s global commitments to emission reductions,” the report advised.”

Here’s the full report; https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/Pitch-Better-Nation/Australian-Electricity-Generation

It’s a bit more factual and boring then those conspiracy theory websites, but it is written by actual engineers...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 10:01:09 PM by Pete79 »
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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #389 on: September 05, 2018, 10:23:34 PM »
Hmmm... Interesting...
I don’t give any of my money to Rupert, so can’t read the full article and see which “think tank” funded that report.
.....

Pete, it says they self-funded.

If the last few years have show us anything, it's that greater penetration of renewables does not reduce power prices.

Any system of subsidies that takes money from those that can least afford it, and hands it to those that least need it must surely be due for a major overhaul....

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 10:29:23 PM by GeoffA »
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #390 on: September 06, 2018, 01:58:16 AM »
The main spokesman of that analysis is this gentleman-
https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/Event/eminent-speaker-dr-robert-barr-australias-green-electricity-schemes-cost-benefits
and they look at the levelized costs of trying to achieve 50% renewables and point out that whilst wind and solar have very low marginal costs of generation (ie after the sunk capital costs) many analysts ignore the cost burden of extra transmission to diverse wind and solar farms that are often large distances from consumers, as well as the costs of thermal generation as backup. ie to cover this sort of extreme variability - https://anero.id/energy/wind-energy/2018/april bearing in mind wind generation output averages around 30% of installed capacity over a seasonal year and obviously solar doesn't generate at night or very minimally on wet/overcast days.

Those cost externalities are currently being shifted onto large coal fired power stations which cannot ramp up and down cost effectively so they're being bankrupted as a result(or at the least there's no margin for depreciation and hence replacement) which currently leaves the field to more expensive cogeneration gas which also struggles with ramping up and down to be efficient(eg Pelican Point), thereby leaving the field to even less efficient and much more expensive gas peaking plants ('open-cycle'). Also the switch away from coal is driving the backup gas prices ever higher and overall power prices like laboratory South Australia leading the charge. Currently SA relies on an interconnector to Vic and the rest of the NEM but should States like Vic and NSW follow suit that's a fallacy of composition as Hazelwood follows Port Augusta and Liddell is next cab off the rank.

“Looking at the total cost of particular forms of energy in isolation is sensible only if you’re going to rely on that form of energy alone, but for the electricity market, it’s the total system costs that matters,” Mr Murphy said.(another spokesman for the engineering group here- https://www.epce.com.au/) Their conclusion is long before a national grid got to 50% or 65% renewables all the backup coal and gas plants would be out of business and where would that leave us all? That's what the debate's all about in Canberra now as a train wreck looms and power prices are already driving some householders to desperate measures by all accounts- https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/dodgy-electricians-who-offered-cheap-wiring-and-illegal-unmetered-power-are-linked-to-the-death-of-a-24-year-old-tradie-who-was-electrocuted-while-working-on-a-sydney-home/ar-BBMSRKL


 
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline Troopy_03

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #391 on: September 06, 2018, 07:13:14 AM »
Finally the engineers are coming out and saying it-

"Electricity bills will soar and gas and coal-fired power stations will close if the share of wind and solar generation increases dramat­ically, engineers have warned after analysing the nation’s ­energy supply.
The analysis casts doubt on Labor’s claim that a 50 per cent renewable energy target — the centrepiece of the opposition’s climate change policy — would reduce electricity prices.
It found bills were likely to soar 84 per cent, or about $1400 a year, for the typical household, if wind and solar power supplied 55 per cent of the national electricity market.

The analysis by a group of veteran engineers — written and funded by five mechanical, chemical, electrical and nuclear engineers, with decades of experience in the power industry — was sent to premiers, federal cabinet ministers and shadow cabinet late last month."

(via Adam Creighton-Economics Editor, The Australian, 5th Sept)

OK, so they have a vested interest in their own findings.
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #392 on: September 06, 2018, 07:25:22 AM »
Pete, it says they self-funded.

If the last few years have show us anything, it's that greater penetration of renewables does not reduce power prices.

Any system of subsidies that takes money from those that can least afford it, and hands it to those that least need it must surely be due for a major overhaul....

 :cheers:

All subsidies come from state or commonwealth govts.   The money comes from rich and poor alike. Hands it to those that can least afford it?..bullShit.  The vast majority of these people took out loans to get their system in place.  They were and are smart enough to know that by taking a little pain now they can save some further down the track.  Big majority of people who have solar are just working class people trying to save a dollar.  Subsidies now are only around 8 cents a Kw and the solar system is subsidised  a fair whack. You dont have to be a millionaire to get solar.  Just smart. The subsidies have been coming down. Subsidies are a real part of our life.   How many millions went into the car industry/   for no avail
Having lots of friends on farcebook is the same as having lots of money in monopoly...means absolutely nothing!!
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Offline paceman

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #393 on: September 06, 2018, 07:32:32 AM »
here's a (hopefully) working link to the article quoted in previous posts:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/engineers-warn-ofbill-shock-under-green-energy-surge/news-story/89ef58cbc07a13726bbf9a014540ce17

and IMO, this paragraph is a key one:

Quote
The AEMO forecast would require more than a 40-fold increase in the solar capacity and around a tripling of the number of wind turbines. “That’s a total of 62,000MW of unreliable, intermittent, weather-dependent generating capacity, with a lot situated a long way from points of high consumption,”


even if solar and wind become very efficient, it will still be intermittent, weather-dependent and far away from the bulk of people who need it, thus making it more expensive to implement and maintain, along with transmission implementation and maintenance.


Offline paceman

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #394 on: September 06, 2018, 07:38:30 AM »
All subsidies come from state or commonwealth govts.   The money comes from rich and poor alike. Hands it to those that can least afford it?..bullShit.  The vast majority of these people took out loans to get their system in place.  They were and are smart enough to know that by taking a little pain now they can save some further down the track.  Big majority of people who have solar are just working class people trying to save a dollar.  Subsidies now are only around 8 cents a Kw and the solar system is subsidised  a fair whack. You dont have to be a millionaire to get solar.  Just smart. The subsidies have been coming down. Subsidies are a real part of our life.   How many millions went into the car industry/   for no avail

those people you have mentioned could afford to get the loan to get the solar panels installed.  there were plenty (like myself) who weren't in a position to even get the loan to get the solar, at that stage.

to infer that it was only the 'smart' (mentioned twice in the quote above) that got solar is insulting.  plenty of families would have loved to have gotten on the 44c bandwagon, but weren't in a position to. 

and now the 44c rebate is having it's own effect on power prices in qld, which in turn affects those who could not afford to implement solar at that time.



Offline BC66

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #395 on: September 06, 2018, 07:43:38 AM »
To make it more efficient each home or business will need battery storage of some type, I can tell you now that this will open the door for legislation to have solar systems be maintained on a regular basis to ensure the safety of the occupants.
Emergency services are quite concerned with Lithium batteries and how to put them out in a fire.  I had a meeting last year with the head of fire investigations here in Brisbane. He was shocked that one of the most famous Lithium battery companies told him that in the event of fire. Maintain the surrounding properties as it is extremely difficult to extinguish a lithium fueled fire unless special foam is used.


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Offline paceman

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #396 on: September 06, 2018, 07:54:35 AM »
To make it more efficient each home or business will need battery storage of some type, I can tell you now that this will open the door for legislation to have solar systems be maintained on a regular basis to ensure the safety of the occupants.
Emergency services are quite concerned with Lithium batteries and how to put them out in a fire.  I had a meeting last year with the head of fire investigations here in Brisbane. He was shocked that one of the most famous Lithium battery companies told him that in the event of fire. Maintain the surrounding properties as it is extremely difficult to extinguish a lithium fueled fire unless special foam is used.


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+1...

that's why i'll be checking these out, when finances allow:

https://www.zcell.com/



Offline krisandkev

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #397 on: September 06, 2018, 07:59:59 AM »
those people you have mentioned could afford to get the loan to get the solar panels installed.  there were plenty (like myself) who weren't in a position to even get the loan to get the solar, at that stage.

to infer that it was only the 'smart' (mentioned twice in the quote above) that got solar is insulting.  plenty of families would have loved to have gotten on the 44c bandwagon, but weren't in a position to. 

and now the 44c rebate is having it's own effect on power prices in qld, which in turn affects those who could not afford to implement solar at that time.

Correct. Back then we paid $50 which in Qld provided us with 2 experts to come to our home and make us more green!  They replaced some of our light bulbs to the new ones and gave us a water wise shower spout. They also said our roof/s were not facing the correct way to get the best out of solar, so don't waste our money. That was when there were the big rebates.  We later found out solar would have been great. All of the bulbs they gave us have blown and been replaced. The great shower spout. As I tried to tell them, we are on tank water and have a very large dam so water is not an issue. The spout is still in the cupboard.  So what a waste of $50 and we should have ignored their EXPERT advice and got solar.  Kevin
Kris and Kev
2008 TTD Landcruiser 200 GXL, Aust Off Road Camper, 20ft Bushtracker.

Offline Poita

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #398 on: September 06, 2018, 09:43:24 AM »
Solar isn't that expensive any more. We put in over 6kW of panels and a 5kW (max. size now in SA for residential) for a bit under $6000. We saved $1000 in 6 months of bills, so it will pay itself off in 3 years. Currently on a 16c feed-in rebate. This has come down massively over the last 5 years. I know a lot of people who wouldn't blink twice to spend that on a sound system and TV. Comes down to priorities for a lot (I know there are some who genuinely can't afford it).

Offline BC66

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #399 on: September 06, 2018, 10:15:38 AM »
we can do that but don't need to, we have a 4KW inverter only running 3KW of panels...have the space to add more panels, just didn't see the need to have that many when we originally installed them years ago. The one thing we do need to do is run another line to the inverter for the extra panels, apparently we can't piggy back off what is already there.....can't remember exact reason why now, but think that line is at it's limit maybe.
Good morning
I was just discussing your situation with our Solar Technical advisor at work and he says that depending on where you live and the age of your system you will lose your current tarrif as they changed the regulations regarding this and you may even have to upgrade your entire system because your inverter may not be on the current CEC list.
The gov keeps changing the rules and what is compliant and what’s not. We
Have pallets of brand new inverters that now cannot be sold as new because they were taken off the CEC list.
We can sell them as direct replacement of old or faulty units or sell them outside of Australia, just not here


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