Author Topic: Power and gas is to expensive.  (Read 241800 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Garfish

  • Mini Marlin
  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 715
  • Thanked: 15 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Have fun and enjoy
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #225 on: March 06, 2018, 05:20:34 AM »
Interesting to see that indicators are for a reduction in prices for those in regional qld final prices are not released until end of May but every thing points to a reduction for gazetted prices.

  http://www.qca.org.au/getattachment/2c9ef12a-d053-4ce8-a7c7-9642b1cc3085/Fact-sheet-Forecast-residential-electricity-pric.aspx
Ross
No camper or 4x4 😪

Offline Bird

  • Once Was Lost, now am found
  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Thanked: 1874 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is far too long....
    • My Place.
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #226 on: March 11, 2018, 08:50:54 AM »
how is this not a criminal offence?

8000 down to 84?
Quote
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/from-8000-to-80-bar-owner-challenges-massive-agl-gas-bill-20180310-p4z3qm.html

"The $8000 showing on their system was as it was read. Then she looked at the service providers, actual people who were supposed to read the meter, and it turns out it wasn’t actually read."

Soon after Fairfax Media contacted AGL about the matter on Friday afternoon, Mr Thompson received a call from a representative and was told his bill for the quarter would be revised down to $84.

An AGL spokesman confirmed Mr Thompson would be issued a revised bill based on his own reading.
-
Click to enlarge

Gone to a new home

Offline tomo

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 643
  • Thanked: 111 times
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #227 on: March 11, 2018, 12:22:06 PM »
HI
at the end of the day someone/party has to make a balls to the wall  approach .
Construction needs to start NOW on A GAME CHANGING SYSTEM

A coal or nuclear station at least 1  or 2  have to be built .
At the same time  develop renewables on a large scale AND create a global ozzy  industry !!

Liberal not commited
Labour  just useless

Somebody needs to lead the country ..........but who ??

Offline Nomad

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2622
  • Thanked: 94 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #228 on: March 11, 2018, 08:03:46 PM »
I know we are fundamentally different to Sweden with an availability of land and rich in natural resources, coal, but why aren't we adopting like they have and creating power stations that run off the burning of waste.

If we could burn all of those ****ing plastics that end up in our ocean wouldn't that be a win win situation?

Offline MDS69

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 1741
  • Thanked: 106 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #229 on: March 11, 2018, 08:19:15 PM »
I know we are fundamentally different to Sweden with an availability of land and rich in natural resources, coal, but why aren't we adopting like they have and creating power stations that run off the burning of waste.

If we could burn all of those ****ing plastics that end up in our ocean wouldn't that be a win win situation?

The Dial a Dump waste company is trying to get a facility of the ground at Eastern Creek in western Sydney but is having trouble with locals and government agencies.

Offline Bird

  • Once Was Lost, now am found
  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Thanked: 1874 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is far too long....
    • My Place.
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #230 on: March 29, 2018, 11:15:43 AM »
This is ****in obscene.. Blokes wife miscarried and all.. all over estimates of business in his area.. Nestle are over the road.. 200 staff.. This bloke is a carwash.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/they-say-we-owe-20-000-car-wash-owner-s-two-year-fight-with-agl-20180320-p4z59z.html
-
Click to enlarge

Gone to a new home

Offline Bigfish

  • Hard Floor Camper User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1232
  • Thanked: 251 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #231 on: March 29, 2018, 03:53:56 PM »
This is ****in obscene.. Blokes wife miscarried and all.. all over estimates of business in his area.. Nestle are over the road.. 200 staff.. This bloke is a carwash.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/they-say-we-owe-20-000-car-wash-owner-s-two-year-fight-with-agl-20180320-p4z59z.html

And the bastards now want us to photograph the meter and send it in!!!  Where the f&*^ are their own meter readers?
Having lots of friends on farcebook is the same as having lots of money in monopoly...means absolutely nothing!!

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #232 on: March 29, 2018, 04:35:10 PM »
And the bastards now want us to photograph the meter and send it in!!!  Where the f&*^ are their own meter readers?
They're sitting in their cars cruising past collecting data from the 'smart' meters.
The days of the meter reader walking the streets and getting chased out of yards by dogs are long gone my friend.

No modern meter?
Live with the power companies estimates of your consumption.
If you're not happy you can complain to the toothless tiger who will sympathize with your situation, but have no power to do anything about it, just like that guy's case....  :'(

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #233 on: June 20, 2018, 05:29:45 PM »
Could Australia finally be taking a big step in the right direction to be part of the future in power generation...??

Quote
The Northern Australian Infrastructure Facility (NAIF) is planning to provide $516 million for the Kidston solar project near Georgetown in far north Queensland.

Genex Power executive director Simon Kidston said the loan was a significant step for the company as it develops the project's second phase — a 250 megawatt pumped storage hydro project that's fully integrated with an expanded solar farm.


It will be one of the largest loans made by the NAIF.

Once built, the project will be the first in Australia to combine solar energy and pumped hydro storage.

"All of the energy from the solar farm is used to pump the water from a lower reservoir to a higher reservoir, then we can release that water and generate power at peak demand."

.....

Mr Kidston said once complete, the project will provide reliable energy to the country.

"Pumped storage hydro is the most efficient mature technology to store energy, and integrating this with solar and potentially wind over time, we can deliver the holy grail of renewable which is dispatchable reliable energy," he said.


Sounds great doesn’t it, pretty much a no brainer one would think.

But wait....
Apparently it all needs to signed off by the coal mining funded government first...

Quote
Federal Minister for Northern Australia Matt Canavan also welcomed the news, but was not as certain that the funding was guaranteed.

"The NAIF Board has not yet made an investment decision, nor has it given any commitment for financial assistance," he said.

Senator Canavan said the potential loan was a direct result of recent changes to the NAIF's investment mandate to make it more flexible, and several other projects were also being considered.


Oh well, let’s just stay in 1945 shall we....
Calling Mr Adani...

http://abc.net.au/news/2018-06-20/solar-farm-integrate-pumped-hydro-storage-$500m-loan-aus-first/9890466?pfmredir=sm
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 05:51:47 PM by Pete79 »

Offline Bird

  • Once Was Lost, now am found
  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Thanked: 1874 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is far too long....
    • My Place.
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #234 on: June 20, 2018, 05:36:28 PM »
Could Australia finally be taking a big step in the right direction to be part of the future in power generation...?
no
-
Click to enlarge

Gone to a new home
The following users thanked this post: Rumpig

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #235 on: June 21, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »
Lowy Institute Poll shows Australians’ support for climate action at its highest level in a decade.

https://theconversation.com/lowy-institute-poll-shows-australians-support-for-climate-action-at-its-highest-level-in-a-decade-98625

And apart from the Tony Abbott/Allan Jones induced dip into stupidity a few years ago, most of Aus has been in agreement for quite some time.



According to the Lowy poll, which involved a nationally representative sample of 1,200 adults, 84% of Australians support the statement that “the government should focus on renewables, even if this means we may need to invest more in infrastructure to make the system more reliable”.



“Both figures suggest that most Australians are genuinely concerned about climate change, a finding consistent with the ever-growing scientific consensus.

The big question is: will Australia’s political leaders respond to this support for climate action and energy transition by putting legitimate policy in place?

It’s political

Two key impediments present themselves here, both political.

The first is Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s own party. Most governments around the world that have instituted legitimate climate and energy policies have at some stage faced down their political opponents. But the biggest political opponents to Australian climate action are the government’s own internal pro-coal cabal, featuring former prime minister Tony Abbott and backbench energy committee chair Craig Kelly.

This group has fought their more moderate colleagues tooth and nail on climate and energy policy. In the process they have painted even relatively timid policies – such as the National Energy Guarantee – as extreme or fiscally irresponsible. Abbott even recently claimed he had been misled on whether the Paris targets he announced as a “definite commitment” – a 26-28% reduction of greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 relative to 2005 – were actual targets.

The second impediment to climate leadership is trepidation on the opposition benches after a bruising decade of climate policy wars. Previously, Kevin Rudd’s Labor had a field day with John Howard’s climate inaction in 2006-07, which coincided with the high point of public concern in Lowy polls.

But the party’s current leadership is all too aware that turning public concern into sustained public consensus is tricky. In the face of Abbott’s scare campaign on carbon pricing and an associated collapse in public support for climate action, Rudd infamously walked away from acting on the “greatest moral challenge”. When Rudd’s successor Julia Gillard finally legislated a carbon price, Abbott promised that the 2013 election, which he duly won, would be a “referendum on the carbon tax”.”



Edit;
A little more insight into the modern coal fired coalition and a bit of an explanation on some of those head scratching decisions they’ve made over recent years, for those that are interested in that sort of stuff...

https://theconversation.com/the-pro-coal-monash-forum-may-do-little-but-blacken-the-name-of-a-revered-australian-94329
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 02:21:58 PM by Pete79 »

Offline Bird

  • Once Was Lost, now am found
  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Thanked: 1874 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is far too long....
    • My Place.
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #236 on: June 21, 2018, 02:57:15 PM »
Quote from: Pete79
Lowy Institute Poll shows Australians’ support for climate action at its highest level in a decade.

... until they release how much more it will cost families already struggling to pay bills and in some cases, cant afford it..
-
Click to enlarge

Gone to a new home

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #237 on: June 21, 2018, 03:19:12 PM »
... until they release how much more it will cost families already struggling to pay bills and in some cases, cant afford it..

Interesting, I didn’t think they broadcast Allan Jones down your way.... ;D

Just came back from Europe traveling around with some Kiwis (NZ runs on over 80% renewables).
If Aussies got out from under that big lump of coal they’d see there’s heaps and heaps of countries living on majority renewables today.
Can’t say I noticed mass starvations when walking around in Norway (98% renewables) or Denmark (almost 60% renewables).

Offline corndog

  • Hard Floor Camper User
  • *****
  • Posts: 917
  • Thanked: 100 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #238 on: June 21, 2018, 03:52:36 PM »
And if you think there are not people out there that are struggling to pay bills you should come out from under your solar panels.

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #239 on: June 21, 2018, 07:08:38 PM »
Not questioning that there are many people struggling to pay their power bills today.
It’s really sad that our political ‘leaders’ have let it go this far and still have no spine stand up to their donors and do something to fix it.
 
But there’s a massive difference between corporate greed encouraged by many many years of political lobbying and the need to replace ancient technology with modern alternatives.
The proposal in my earlier post is a perfect example, good technology but doesn’t suit the agenda of those that pay the bills so will probably never get approval.


And I’m sure that my great grand kids will be very happy that I’m here under my solar panels refusing to believe the coal funded politics going on in this country today..... ;)

Offline alnjan

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2922
  • Thanked: 221 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #240 on: June 21, 2018, 07:09:43 PM »
A poll of 1200 people hardly is a suggestion that most Australians agree on anything. 
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #241 on: June 21, 2018, 07:26:53 PM »
A poll of 1200 people hardly is a suggestion that most Australians agree on anything.
Apparently it is....

Newspoll

Publisher: The Australian
Methodology: Online panel and robopolling, which does not include mobiles.
Sample size: About 1,600-1,800 for most surveys.
Frequency: Usually once a fortnight, but three-week breaks are not uncommon. Once a week during election campaigns.



Ipsos

Publisher: Fairfax Media
Methodology: Live phone polling, which includes mobiles.
Sample size: 1,400
Frequency: Monthly, but will appear more frequently during election campaigns.



Galaxy

Publisher: News Limited tabloids
Methodology: Online panel and live phone, including mobiles.
Sample size: 1,200 to 1,700.
Frequency: Infrequent outside election campaigns.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 07:42:44 PM by Pete79 »

Offline GeoffA

  • 2017 National Meet Volunteer
  • Hard Top Camper User
  • *****
  • Posts: 8493
  • Thanked: 607 times
  • Gender: Male
  • "If 1 axle is good, 2 must be better........."
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #242 on: June 21, 2018, 08:06:48 PM »
Norway's 98% renewables are all hydro.....hardly applicable to the driest continent on earth.
NZ renewables are mostly hydro, with a good deal of geo-thermal....again, not really appropriate to AUS.

 :cheers:
Geoff and Kay

1999 GU TD42T wagon
2005 Coota Camper - gone, but never forgotten
2020 North Coast 15' Titanium - tandem, of course

Land Cruiser.....the Patrol that Toyota try to build.....

Offline alnjan

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2922
  • Thanked: 221 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #243 on: June 21, 2018, 08:44:58 PM »
Apparently it is....

Newspoll

Publisher: The Australian
Methodology: Online panel and robopolling, which does not include mobiles.
Sample size: About 1,600-1,800 for most surveys.
Frequency: Usually once a fortnight, but three-week breaks are not uncommon. Once a week during election campaigns.



Ipsos

Publisher: Fairfax Media
Methodology: Live phone polling, which includes mobiles.
Sample size: 1,400
Frequency: Monthly, but will appear more frequently during election campaigns.



Galaxy

Publisher: News Limited tabloids
Methodology: Online panel and live phone, including mobiles.
Sample size: 1,200 to 1,700.
Frequency: Infrequent outside election campaigns.


I must just be one of the minority that disagree with the other 1199 occupants of Australia then  lol
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline tryagain

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 3520
  • Thanked: 609 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #244 on: June 21, 2018, 09:54:42 PM »
Just came back from Europe traveling around with some Kiwis (NZ runs on over 80% renewables).
If Aussies got out from under that big lump of coal they’d see there’s heaps and heaps of countries living on majority renewables today.
Can’t say I noticed mass starvations when walking around in Norway (98% renewables) or Denmark (almost 60% renewables).

Norway and NZ renewables generation are largely consistent and dispatchable, with hydro being the predominant generation contributing 98% of supply in Norway and 60% in NZ, when was the last time you heard of those advocating for clean energy happy to build large-scale dam's to facilitate it?  (edit typed this bit before GeoffA posted but didn't get come back and finish off and post before he did)

At the end of the day if you want energy on demand you need supply on demand, unfortunately, our renewable mix doesn't yet facilitate that, but coal does.


Lowy Institute Poll shows Australians’ support for climate action at its highest level in a decade.

The big question is: will Australia’s political leaders respond to this support for climate action and energy transition by putting legitimate policy in place?

But the biggest political opponents to Australian climate action are the government’s own internal pro-coal cabal, featuring former prime minister Tony Abbott and backbench energy committee chair Craig Kelly.

He seems to be reading things into the research to support his point that isn't there, the research says that people support climate action, and in reality, renewables have been subsidised to the tune of billions. There is already quite a bit of action, whether it's at the right level is a different question but I saw a figure from a few years back that said that at that time, for every $1 subsidy coal gets, solar gets over $500 (might be a little inflated considering the source). The author though is taking the "support for climate action" means that people want the type of policy he is advocating for when the questions posed aren't even remotely close to what he is insinuating it means.

His "Pro coal cabal" sledge isn't really accurate either, earlier in the report he referred to the "technology neutral" stand that they take and that is more accurate, I don't think they especially have an affinity for coal, just the lower cost dispatchable power it provides. Whether them being neutral and not pro-renewable actually makes them pro-coal I guess depends on your viewpoint.


« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 10:03:50 PM by tryagain »

Offline tryagain

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 3520
  • Thanked: 609 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #245 on: June 21, 2018, 10:00:51 PM »
A poll of 1200 people hardly is a suggestion that most Australians agree on anything.

1200 people is usually considered statistically accurate for Australias population size.


I must just be one of the minority that disagree with the other 1199 occupants of Australia then  lol

No, 708 of those want steps taken now to address it, you would be in the 492 who think either should act slowly so that it doesn't cause too big of an imposition or not at all.


Offline OldPaj

  • Tent User
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #246 on: June 21, 2018, 10:12:55 PM »
But you ask 1200 people in the inner city green heartland (full of DINKs) and use push polling techniques to get the answer you want. Eg. Global warming is a serious and pressing problem. We must do something now even if it at a significant cost. Agree/Disagree (note invariably not on a scale of 1 - 10) nor in relation to other pressing problems Eg. rising health care costs, rising age care costs, rising education services cost etc. I guess most can see the picture.

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #247 on: June 21, 2018, 10:36:56 PM »
Norway and NZ renewables generation are largely consistent and dispatchable, with hydro being the predominant generation contributing 98% of supply in Norway and 60% in NZ, when was the last time you heard of those advocating for clean energy happy to build large-scale dam's to facilitate it? 

At the end of the day if you want energy on demand you need supply on demand, unfortunately, our renewable mix doesn't yet facilitate that, but coal does.

Not trying to be smart, genuine question here.
What’s stopping plans like the solar pumped hydro they want to build in NQ going ahead now?

We have a private company wanting to use otherwise useless sloping ground (ie; no good for residential, farming or mining) and using solar to pump water up hill and using gravity to run turbines downhill on demand.
It’s got to be as close to perpetual energy as we can get, isn’t it?

I agree we don’t have the steep ranges with constant running rivers or easy access to natural thermal like some others, but as a country we have no problems digging massive holes in the ground, we have plenty of sunshine and always manage to find plenty of water for industry when it suits.
Surely it’s only political agendas stopping us from making our own solar powered pumped hydro sites in remote areas all over the country.

You are correct that building dams in rivers and flooding large swaths of forests rattles a few cages.
But when it comes to growing citrus, cotton or rice we manage to pump a few liters of water around and make some decent sized puddles with little political fuss.


And I’m sorry, but I can’t agree that Tony “science is crap” Abbott has any other agenda then the one he makes very clear every time he speaks on the energy subject.
Shouting from the backbench about how ugly wind farms are and how the government should build their own coal fired power plants hardly says open minded to a proper mix of generation to me.

Offline GeoffA

  • 2017 National Meet Volunteer
  • Hard Top Camper User
  • *****
  • Posts: 8493
  • Thanked: 607 times
  • Gender: Male
  • "If 1 axle is good, 2 must be better........."
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #248 on: June 21, 2018, 10:51:10 PM »
Shouting from the backbench about how ugly wind farms are.....

....and he is 100% correct on that.

I used to quite like them, but I've grown to see them as visual pollution, a blight on the landscape.
They are not reliable enough, and don't generate enough to warrant the eyesore.....IMO.

 :cheers:
Geoff and Kay

1999 GU TD42T wagon
2005 Coota Camper - gone, but never forgotten
2020 North Coast 15' Titanium - tandem, of course

Land Cruiser.....the Patrol that Toyota try to build.....

Offline tryagain

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 3520
  • Thanked: 609 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #249 on: June 21, 2018, 10:53:52 PM »
But you ask 1200 people in the inner city green heartland (full of DINKs) and use push polling techniques to get the answer you want. Eg. Global warming is a serious and pressing problem. We must do something now even if it at a significant cost. Agree/Disagree (note invariably not on a scale of 1 - 10) nor in relation to other pressing problems Eg. rising health care costs, rising age care costs, rising education services cost etc. I guess most can see the picture.

Yeah, some of the conclusions the Author draws aren't really there to be drawn. There could likely be a reasonable amount who are thinking the significant cost should be borne by the government/others, ask them if they are happy to bear the significant cost and I suspect the answer would change quite a bit, but if they have been consistently asking the same question with the same methodology, then the trend should be accurate. I think they would have a representative sample though, not just all a similar demographic.