We all clear on the roundabout rules in Oz?

[Troopy_03]

And you do not seem to grasp, that if he is in the inside lane, and you are entering the outside lane, you are not failing to give way (unless he is using his blinker to signal he is changing lanes into the outside lane or exiting). If you intend to cross into the inside lane, thereby impeding his safe travel, then of course you have to give way. If you are in the inside lane, and fail to give way to someone in the outside lane, when you cross into it, you are in the wrong.

I actually have nudged a vehicle with my bull bar on a roundabout, when he cut across from the right lane, to the left on a two lane exit of a roundabout, without even looking let alone indicating. He was pretty keen to pursue the matter, till i pointed out the dash cam. And I wasn't worried about a bit of his paint on my bull bar.

[GBC]

You need to talk to a traffic copper about this. You are having an each way bet.

[alnjan]

Just to make the waters a bit more murkier.  After giving way to traffic already on the roundabout, when do you enter a roundabout?

[Bird]

Im thinking some of these law makers had never travelled the 5 ways in the shire when it was running... If you gave way to everyone you'd have never moved.
They gave up and made it all traffic lights.

[nab]

And you do not seem to grasp, that if he is in the inside lane, and you are entering the outside lane, you are not failing to give way (unless he is using his blinker to signal he is changing lanes into the outside lane or exiting). If you intend to cross into the inside lane, thereby impeding his safe travel, then of course you have to give way. If you are in the inside lane, and fail to give way to someone in the outside lane, when you cross into it, you are in the wrong.

I actually have nudged a vehicle with my bull bar on a roundabout, when he cut across from the right lane, to the left on a two lane exit of a roundabout, without even looking let alone indicating. He was pretty keen to pursue the matter, till i pointed out the dash cam. And I wasn't worried about a bit of his paint on my bull bar.

Why is there a dotted "give way" line in front of car A then? If car C is already on the roundabout and changes lanes and car A that has just entered the roundabout hits it, it is blatantly obvious that car A did not give way to all traffic already on the roundabout and therefore at fault.

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

They are both at fault. simple.

[Troopy_03]

I think people need to look up how to use traffic lanes on a road. It may be a bit more obvious then. If you change lanes, you need to indicate, if you don't enter the other persons lane lane, then there is no need to give way, as you are not impeding their way. Have a look at basic T junctions on a multi lane road, when you are turning left, and a car approaching from the right, in the other lane, do you still need to give way?

If it's still murky, stay in small towns where it's much safer for you to drive. 

And for really weird rules on giving way, VIC used to have a beauty, which they discontinued back around 89 or 90. Two cars approaching each other at a T junction. Car A wanted to turn right into the side road, and car B wanted to turn left into the same road. Car B had to give way to car A. That was just plain stupid, and caused a few prangs with interstate drivers. Luckily, as I say, they scrapped it just before we moved down there for a while.

[Troopy_03]

Why is there a dotted "give way" line in front of car A then? If car C is already on the roundabout and changes lanes and car A that has just entered the roundabout hits it, it is blatantly obvious that car A did not give way to all traffic already on the roundabout and therefore at fault.

The dotted line is for car is to indicate that car A has to give way to any vehicle already on the roundabout using that outside lane. If car C is already on the roundabout, and changes or is in the process of changing lanes, he will have his left blinker on, and car A will be aware of what he is doing, and give way to him.

Of course, in the sketch, car C will proceed to the inside lane to turn right anyway, then indicate to exit the roundabout. There is no need for him to enter the left lane unless he decides he needs to go back to the road he came in on (chuckin a U'y). Then he would remain on the inside lane till he is past the RH exit, indicate with his left blinker and exit the roundabout, into the road he came in on.

[Troopy_03]

You need to talk to a traffic copper about this. You are having an each way bet.

Nope, no eachway bet. It's standard lane changing procedure. If you want to change into another lane, you need to indicate, and give way to traffic in that lane.

[Bird]

Roundabouts are a ****in nightmare - I remember seeing an old dear in her Hillman turning right - into oncoming traffic at the 5 ways Miranda.. and it wasn't a rare occurance. it was that big, they couldn't see the other side, or the 120 signs all around it pointing out which way traffic should go. But cheaper than traffic lights


- and as we all know, the larger variety work so well

[Troopy_03]

On the roundabout, coming off the freeway (heading North) at Laverton Nth, have seen someone coming around the roundabout in the wrong direction a couple of times too. But I think they work well in most situations. The tiny little ones in suburban streets only serve to slow traffic down a bit though, which is probably a good thing anyway.

Do you remember the weird traffic rule that I mentioned above Bird? where you had to give way to traffic crossing in front of you. I don't remember what happened if you were going straight, and he wanted to cross in front to turn right though. I think he had to stop and give way, but don't really remember. I just remember nearly getting cleaned up a couple of times, when I didn't give way to the car crossing in front of me, the first time I drove down there.

[GBC]

I think people need to look up how to use traffic lanes on a road. It may be a bit more obvious then. If you change lanes, you need to indicate, if you don't enter the other persons lane lane, then there is no need to give way, as you are not impeding their way. Have a look at basic T junctions on a multi lane road, when you are turning left, and a car approaching from the right, in the other lane, do you still need to give way?

If it's still murky, stay in small towns where it's much safer for you to drive. 

And for really weird rules on giving way, VIC used to have a beauty, which they discontinued back around 89 or 90. Two cars approaching each other at a T junction. Car A wanted to turn right into the side road, and car B wanted to turn left into the same road. Car B had to give way to car A. That was just plain stupid, and caused a few prangs with interstate drivers. Luckily, as I say, they scrapped it just before we moved down there for a while.

This is getting boring. Yes, you give way to ALL lanes. Most don't do it, I agree that it doesn't work in busy cities, but nevertheless it is the law, and one which you have proven without a shadow of a doubt that you are completely ignorant of.

"At T intersections the vehicle travelling on the road that ends must give way to
any pedestrians crossing or vehicles travelling on the road that continues unless
otherwise signposted."

[macca]

On the roundabout, coming off the freeway (heading North) at Laverton Nth, have seen someone coming around the roundabout in the wrong direction a couple of times too. But I think they work well in most situations. The tiny little ones in suburban streets only serve to slow traffic down a bit though, which is probably a good thing anyway.

Do you remember the weird traffic rule that I mentioned above Bird? where you had to give way to traffic crossing in front of you. I don't remember what happened if you were going straight, and he wanted to cross in front to turn right though. I think he had to stop and give way, but don't really remember. I just remember nearly getting cleaned up a couple of times, when I didn't give way to the car crossing in front of me, the first time I drove down there.

I remember it troopy but it wasnt just T intersections, turning right had right of way over turning left when approaching  on the same carrige way

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Merts]

This is getting boring. Yes, you give way to ALL lanes. Most don't do it, I agree that it doesn't work in busy cities, but nevertheless it is the law, and one which you have proven without a shadow of a doubt that you are completely ignorant of.

I reckon you are missing something fundamental here, and that is what 'give way' actually means.

"slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision."

The rule that you have to give way to any vehicle already in the roundabout means that you slow down and stop if necessary to avoid a collision with any vehicle already in the roundabout. It most definitely does not mean you can't enter the roundabout just because there are other vehicles in it, in lanes and/or positions that don't present a chance of a collision.

When a vehicle is turning right in the middle lane, and you are turning left or going straight through in the outer lane, you can enter the roundabout if it's clear doing so isn't going to cause a collision. Once you've safely entered the roundabout, the other driver has to comply with the requirement to give way to any vehicle in the lane he's attempting to change into.

Where it becomes tricky is when the right turning driver starts changing lanes at the same time the other driver is entering the roundabout, although that right turning driver should be indicating left prior to changing lanes, which would alert the other driver to the fact than entering the roundabout could cause a collision.

As I said yesterday, I'm not convinced this is as clear cut as you keep suggesting, but I'm happy for you to correct me if you can point out an error in my logic.

[Pete79]

I think you're missing the fundamental point here Merts.

He is discussing driving in QLD, the rule is;
"Keep right at all times no matter what. When your exit approaches, move from the far right lane to the far left lane as fast as possible and if anyone doesn't get out of your way immediately you must drive as close as possible to them and threaten them with your bullbar if you have one."

Well at least that's what my observations have told me must be the rules.....

[Bird]

[Hairs]

You've done well to get an aerial shot of how Grafton motorist deal with roundabouts at either side of the Grafton Bridge.
I've seen coppers caught in the mess and yet nobody gets book.
 

[Troopy_03]

I reckon you are missing something fundamental here, and that is what 'give way' actually means.

"slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision."

The rule that you have to give way to any vehicle already in the roundabout means that you slow down and stop if necessary to avoid a collision with any vehicle already in the roundabout. It most definitely does not mean you can't enter the roundabout just because there are other vehicles in it, in lanes and/or positions that don't present a chance of a collision.

When a vehicle is turning right in the middle lane, and you are turning left or going straight through in the outer lane, you can enter the roundabout if it's clear doing so isn't going to cause a collision. Once you've safely entered the roundabout, the other driver has to comply with the requirement to give way to any vehicle in the lane he's attempting to change into.

Where it becomes tricky is when the right turning driver starts changing lanes at the same time the other driver is entering the roundabout, although that right turning driver should be indicating left prior to changing lanes, which would alert the other driver to the fact than entering the roundabout could cause a collision.

As I said yesterday, I'm not convinced this is as clear cut as you keep suggesting, but I'm happy for you to correct me if you can point out an error in my logic.

Good to see some sanity on the post ;-)

[Troopy_03]

Now all we need is to get a ruling where it is compulsory for QLD drivers to undergo a test and have their licenses endorsed, before ther are allowed to drive in southern states... 


Settle down, I'm just kidding.... heck I even used to be a QLD driver myself once...















soon learnt to be very mindful of giving way and using indicators when I ventured south though... 

[Pete79]

Now all we need is to get a ruling where it is compulsory for QLD drivers to undergo a test and have their licenses endorsed....

Slightly off topic, but I actually agree with that.

I've been saying for a long time that all drivers (in all states) should have to do a really quick lap with a transport officer when you pay your 5 year license fees.

Just need a quick drive to get everyone up to speed with the latest (and correct) road rules, as well as filter out those that perhaps shouldn't be on the road or maybe need a couple of lessons before they are deemed safe to use a motor vehicle again.

It would be simple;
1) Are you less then 150 years old, can you physically get into a vehicle and see over the dash board? Yes, go to step 2.

2) can you negotiate an intersection or roundabout, do you know how to use your indicators and how to give way? Yes, go to step 3.

3) drive to the nearest motorway or major highway, can you merge into flowing traffic, maintain the signed speed (or as close as safely possible) and do you keep left unless over taking? Yes, you can have a license for another 5 years.

My guess is half of QLD drivers wouldn't make it passed step 2....

[Troopy_03]

Slightly off topic, but I actually agree with that.

I've been saying for a long time that all drivers (in all states) should have to do a really quick lap with a transport officer when you pay your 5 year license fees.

Just need a quick drive to get everyone up to speed with the latest (and correct) road rules, as well as filter out those that perhaps shouldn't be in the road or need a couple of lessons before they are deemed safe to use a motor vehicle again.

It would be simple;
1) Are you less then 150 years old, can you physically get into a vehicle and see over the dash board? Yes, go to step 2.

2) can you negotiate an intersection or roundabout, do you know how to use your indicators and how to give way? Yes, go to step 3.

3) drive to the nearest motorway or major highway, can you merge into flowing traffic, maintain the signed speed (or as close as safely possible) and do you keep left unless over taking? Yes, you can have a license for another 5 years.

My guess is half of QLD drivers wouldn't make it passed step 2....

Hahaha....
Hmm I just make step one, by a couple of years and a couple of centimeters.. 

[gronk]

Please excuse my very quick, and very rough sketch

For a three point round about.
For those in the know, or think they are in the know, can someone clarify whether both car A and B need to give way to car C.
Assuming car C has entered the  roundabout first 😉

That roundabout probably wouldn't happen in real life. If it's a 2 lane roundabout it would be marked with dotted lines all the way round. If it was a single lane roundabout,  most likely the left hand lane , car C, would have a left only turn arrow on the road. Single lane roundabouts are just that, so no 2 lanes of traffic allowed.

[GeoffA]

I remember it troopy but it wasnt just T intersections, turning right had right of way over turning left when approaching on the same carriage way

Yes macca. I think it was probably like that to get right turning traffic off the tram lines ASAP....much like the hook turns in the CBD.
Guessing they made it a blanket rule to save confusion, but visitors struggled with it....

 

[Troopy_03]

That roundabout probably wouldn't happen in real life. If it's a 2 lane roundabout it would be marked with dotted lines all the way round. If it was a single lane roundabout,  most likely the left hand lane , car C, would have a left only turn arrow on the road. Single lane roundabouts are just that, so no 2 lanes of traffic allowed.

The two lanes on the Main Rd, would indicate it's a two lane roundabout, and if not, it would be a bl@@dy s#1t fight for cars going from two lanes into a single lane roundabout. But he did say it was a rough sketch....

[Troopy_03]

Yes Jim. I think it was probably like that to get right turning traffic off the tram lines ASAP....much like the hook turns in the CBD.
Guessing they made it a blanket rule to save confusion, but visitors struggled with it....

 

No idea what their thinking was, but it was all over, not just in Melbourne. I think I did hear that it was to clear traffic on the main road quicker, but that didn't make sense either.