Author Topic: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??  (Read 10426 times)

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Offline Julian Kaye

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2017, 07:27:37 AM »
Nah jeeps the one, they won't be able to help 'em selves.   >:D >:D >:D
Toyota's wouldn't have known where to go unless they followed the wheel tracks already there from the Land Rovers.

As for the Hydro expansion.
For something that was considered far too expensive in the past, it's now the only answer.
And guess who's claiming all the credit.
They wouldn't have known it was possible, unless someone told them.



        As for the Hydro expansion. We are going to build a great big pipe to pump water uphill using electricity.......so we can let the water run downhill to make electricity........go figure that one. I guess the thought never crossed their mind to build another coal fired power station, or heaven forbid a nuclear one and produce plenty of cheap base load power for everyone.

Offline gronk

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2017, 07:32:37 AM »
I get rounded up by the Thales mechanics doing test runs on the Bushmasters out the back of the airport. They go much faster than they probably should. I'd like to see the 0-100 figures on one.
. First ute to get bogged or roll and the unions/whs rep will make the head contractor build a freaking cable car system.

Ha ha, things have changed a bit over the last 40yrs.........we no longer tolerate unsafe work practises or machinery !!

Thank your favorite union for trying to keep you alive while at work !! :cup:

All this sounds like a good plan...?.but...?.   Without more dams, there isn't enough water to run all the turbines they have now, so this whole process lacks serious thought I think ?
Now, if we could only make water run uphill, we could reuse the spent water going thru the turbines? ?       
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Offline MDS69

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2017, 08:16:24 AM »
Sorry blokes! Toyota/Snowy Mountains Blah, blah, blah is just another Furphy to the Australian motoring sheep.

http://www.bmcexperience.com.au/bmce-issue17/snowy-land-rovers
Steve


There is nothing incorrect about Homer_jay comment.
https://www.thiess.com/thiesstv/album/2746859/video/86677786

He didn't say Toyota were the first just that they were there and the history of the FJ in Australia.



Offline briann532

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2017, 10:21:17 AM »


        As for the Hydro expansion. We are going to build a great big pipe to pump water uphill using electricity.......so we can let the water run downhill to make electricity........go figure that one. I guess the thought never crossed their mind to build another coal fired power station, or heaven forbid a nuclear one and produce plenty of cheap base load power for everyone.

Or we could put in some solar panels anywhere in the outback. Lots of solar energy pretty much most of the day. Cheap land and cheap installs.
Chuck a few cables in and then work on some storage ideas or a similar scheme to the snowy. Pump during the day with free solar power, then turn the turbines during peak load times.
On another note, power storage is getting better and better. By the time our government does all the feasibility studies, EPA requirements and engineering (read - 28 years time) we will have much better storage availability with free generation.

Or put more lipstick on a pig and hope to win another election with stupid promises....
Back to a swag!
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Offline DrewXT

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2017, 10:32:58 AM »


        As for the Hydro expansion. We are going to build a great big pipe to pump water uphill using electricity.......so we can let the water run downhill to make electricity........go figure that one. I guess the thought never crossed their mind to build another coal fired power station, or heaven forbid a nuclear one and produce plenty of cheap base load power for everyone.
Come on - that's about as logical as actually using Lake Argyle for its original purpose of drought proofing the country!



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Offline MDS69

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2017, 11:35:17 AM »
Or we could put in some solar panels anywhere in the outback. Lots of solar energy pretty much most of the day. Cheap land and cheap installs.
Chuck a few cables in and then work on some storage ideas or a similar scheme to the snowy. Pump during the day with free solar power, then turn the turbines during peak load times.
On another note, power storage is getting better and better. By the time our government does all the feasibility studies, EPA requirements and engineering (read - 28 years time) we will have much better storage availability with free generation.

Or put more lipstick on a pig and hope to win another election with stupid promises....

 With the risk of getting off topic I would like to see a couple of poly pipes run from The Sydney desal plant out to Goulburn and also to the Darling River then turn the mongrel on instead of it sitting in moth balls costing $500k per day to sit idle. Sure it will cost more to have it running but the benefits to the economy would be greater wouldn't it.
You might get more people living in regional towns if there was a more reliable water supply, and just throwing it out there it might ever so slightly reduce the pressure on Sydney housing demand and prices.

Offline gronk

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2017, 11:58:01 AM »
With the risk of getting off topic I would like to see a couple of poly pipes run from The Sydney desal plant out to Goulburn and also to the Darling River then turn the mongrel on instead of it sitting in moth balls costing $500k per day to sit idle. Sure it will cost more to have it running but the benefits to the economy would be greater wouldn't it.
You might get more people living in regional towns if there was a more reliable water supply, and just throwing it out there it might ever so slightly reduce the pressure on Sydney housing demand and prices.

Sounds logical....but, the cost to run it is astronomical long term !

Was a good idea, but they hit the panic button a bit too early.

Why can't we just pump sea water inland and train the cows to drink salt water ??  ;D ;D
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Offline marvellous_matt

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2017, 12:13:12 PM »


        As for the Hydro expansion. We are going to build a great big pipe to pump water uphill using electricity.......so we can let the water run downhill to make electricity........go figure that one. I guess the thought never crossed their mind to build another coal fired power station, or heaven forbid a nuclear one and produce plenty of cheap base load power for everyone.
this is how the hydro in vic works, pump water off peak up the hill, let it run back down when u can sell it for more. I just doent think we have enough water to make good hydro in Aus, and more dams don't mean more water, just relocated. So its more like a complicated battery. Ive read about small scale hydo being installed in sewerage pipes, enough of them spread around could make a difference, we all need to flush pretty regularly

Offline Steffo1

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2017, 02:06:05 PM »
This was up in Mt Mee  S.F. outside Brissie a couple of years ago. It must have water pumped up from Somerset! Nothing done yet AFAIK.
Steve
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Offline GBC

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2017, 02:59:27 PM »
Pumped hydro is called closed circuit. Splityard creek at Wivenhoe is one as well. Unless you have big mountains and unlimited gravity driven snow melt like nz South Island you kind of have to make those compromises.

Offline kylarama

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2017, 03:43:49 PM »
Prius, and if I have to explain why ,........ 👿
Tesla. 

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Offline feisty

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2017, 10:27:24 PM »
Being the Snowy Mountains I reckon the men from the Snowy River won't be able to go past a trusty Steed. Which I predict will be the making of Great Wall in this country and in 10 years we'll all be driving them.
And yes I have been drinking......

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Offline ADTradie

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2017, 07:14:23 AM »
They'll put out a tender for supply of 4WD's, Just like the submarines, the French will win the job as long as there is a local build component. Check out the Citroën 2CV Safari in this article (Hope our subs turn out better! :))
http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-weirdest-french-cars-ever-made-1564236144
Hmm, maybe the French will win the whole construction job as well?

I've loved some of your comments on this topic and can see the end result of the Sydney desal' plant fired up to pump water to the top of the Snowy's to generate hydro electricity to power the  Sydney desal' plant, to pump water to the top of the Snowy's to generate hydro electricity to............etc. (Endless chasing of tails (round and round we go). What does that remind you of? Another government solution!).

I think Mazda BT50 or Ford Ranger would be the go for question, "Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction?" Plenty of grunt + load carrying capacity.
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Offline Julian Kaye

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2017, 07:42:51 AM »
Or we could put in some solar panels anywhere in the outback. Lots of solar energy pretty much most of the day. Cheap land and cheap installs.
Chuck a few cables in and then work on some storage ideas or a similar scheme to the snowy. Pump during the day with free solar power, then turn the turbines during peak load times.
On another note, power storage is getting better and better. By the time our government does all the feasibility studies, EPA requirements and engineering (read - 28 years time) we will have much better storage availability with free generation.

Or put more lipstick on a pig and hope to win another election with stupid promises....




      People have really got to get out of this notion that solar energy is free and/or cheap. Have a look at a solar panel, it's basically silicone and aluminium. It takes 15kwh of electricity to make 1kg of aluminium. That's the average daily use of a household to make the frames of probably two solar panels. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for solar panels, I've got 20 on my roof, and battery storage will improve and become more feasible in time but, along with wind power it will never provide the underlying requirement of base-load power. The stupid part is that we have the greatest resources available for long term base load power, namely coal and uranium. If only we had the politicians with the guts and foresight to put them to use.......                                                                 

Offline briann532

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2017, 08:06:38 AM »
With the risk of getting off topic I would like to see a couple of poly pipes run from The Sydney desal plant out to Goulburn and also to the Darling River then turn the mongrel on instead of it sitting in moth balls costing $500k per day to sit idle. Sure it will cost more to have it running but the benefits to the economy would be greater wouldn't it.
You might get more people living in regional towns if there was a more reliable water supply, and just throwing it out there it might ever so slightly reduce the pressure on Sydney housing demand and prices.

Really sorry mate, but I can't understand your logic.......
How does that buy me more votes at the next election.......???
Oh sorry again, I didn't realise you were actually thinking of a feasible solution.
(tongue in cheek for anyone who wants to double check!!!)
Back to a swag!
BitsiShity Tryton
Spending most of my time at the farm in Dalton!

Offline GBC

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2017, 09:03:45 AM »



      People have really got to get out of this notion that solar energy is free and/or cheap. Have a look at a solar panel, it's basically silicone and aluminium. It takes 15kwh of electricity to make 1kg of aluminium. That's the average daily use of a household to make the frames of probably two solar panels. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for solar panels, I've got 20 on my roof, and battery storage will improve and become more feasible in time but, along with wind power it will never provide the underlying requirement of base-load power. The stupid part is that we have the greatest resources available for long term base load power, namely coal and uranium. If only we had the politicians with the guts and foresight to put them to use.......                                                                 

This.

Not to mention our 'storage improvements' are based on rare earth metals like lithium which is mainly mined in china using methods which are costing our planet much more than it will ever save us. But no one talks about that either.
The only places in Qld where green energy breaks even against a power grid or generators is Birdsville and Windorah.

Offline Hoyks

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2017, 09:57:25 AM »
   People have really got to get out of this notion that solar energy is free and/or cheap. Have a look at a solar panel, it's basically silicone and aluminium. It takes 15kwh of electricity to make 1kg of aluminium. That's the average daily use of a household to make the frames of probably two solar panels. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for solar panels, I've got 20 on my roof, and battery storage will improve and become more feasible in time but, along with wind power it will never provide the underlying requirement of base-load power. The stupid part is that we have the greatest resources available for long term base load power, namely coal and uranium. If only we had the politicians with the guts and foresight to put them to use.......                                                                 

But solar is cheap, well, sort of.... Most of the cost is up front, rather than ongoing and we subcontract the fabrication and pollution to China. It is really 'cheapest politically' because it doesn't come with any real baggage that people can object to; it just sits on your roof and sucks up the sun, no moving parts, no noise, no smell and no leaks.

I think there are a number of issues with Australian energy policy, mainly caused by the lack of policy or leadership.

Gas: At the state level (in Qld at least) they loved the idea of coal seam gas, made laws in support of it, drilled lots of wells, built pipelines, subsidized a export plant and helped build the industry. Now international prices are so high someone bought the powerstation near Ipswich and mothballed it because they get better $$ selling its contracted gas supply overseas, rather than using it to run the station.
Now they have manufactured a gas drought and the companies want to drill more holes in places that have banned drilling so they can just supply Australia (its for your own good).
They really didn't think that one through properly. Maybe they also didn't charge enough for royalties as I hear the Japanese import duty on the gas is more than the Qld government gets in royalties... but the gas company is still turning a profit.

Coal, I don't think that is the answer either. Take a flight up the hunter valley, the land is being raped to death, will probably never recover to being productive farm land again and the river is full of salt.
There is some $$ to be made out of it, but right now we are falling over ourselves to sell it as quickly as we can, restricting the supply or up-ing resource levy will see us get more for it at least.

Nuclear, good luck getting that off the ground. Don't get me wrong, It is probably the safest per kW, but the NIMBY and hippies will be out in force just because it has nuclear in the name, regardless of reactor type.

Wind, people don't like the look of the turbines, they don't like look, the sound or the impact on their property values and suffer psychosomatic illness as a result. I'm 1/2 deaf and think they look majestic, I'm probably in the minority.

Tidal/wave power, there is a promising wave power trial being run off Fremantle, and considering that most of the Australian population is near the coast, it is something that should be looked at. Tidal power is another option that could be explored, but it would be restricted to the NW of WA where they get the good 8-9m tides, but there is also a good bit of industry up there.

Pumped hydro, I don't think is really a viable answer, unless you are going to stump up for a bunch of wind turbines, solar panels or a Nuc power plant to run the pumps and you will use more energy getting the water back up the hill than you can ever recoup. Burning coal to do it sort of puts soot all over any green credentials you were hoping to claim. It only works now because of the historic excess capacity in the system.


Selling the power distribution assets for a short term gain was also a bad idea (who couldn't see that coming ???), now you have to try and get competing interests to all work together and most are trying manipulate the market in order to get a better return.

There needs to be a diverse energy mix, not just coal and gas with some hydro. I'd like to see more recycling and bio-gas/oil production as well. SA is on the right track and a massive battery bank and a back up generator will go a long way to fixing their problems, but the federal government is hardly showing any leadership on an issue of national importance.

Offline DrewXT

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Re: Snowy Hydro II....which 4WD will lead the construction??
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2017, 10:54:26 AM »
This is the storage system I'm keen to see Australia start producing for off peak and grid surplus storage....

http://reneweconomy.com.au/sa-made-silicon-energy-storage-system-ready-close-grid-gap-23607/

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