Traffic cops and boating rules

[Beachman]

Hi All,

Saturday morning I took the boat out and at the boat ramp a couple of traffic cops come out of nowhere in their car and rush over to talk with 2 boats pulling into the ramp and told myself and another boat to wait as they also wanted to talk with us.

The 2 boats which were pulling in were going over the designated 6 knots and the young copper was giving them a hard time about speeds and distances etc.(For them to have known they were speeding indicates they were hiding somewhere watching)

After giving the other 2 boats a warning, this traffic cop checks all our boat licenses/boat registrations, then goes over our life jackets and asks all of us how far out in the bay we had been/going as we were all in small tinnies. (I got a warning because my Lifejacket was slightly and I mean slightly faded and the compliance tag was slightly ripped).

Guy beside me got a real hard time as the copper believes his port/starboard navigation lights were in the wrong spot by 5cm and if he had caught him at night them he would have fined him.

Just curious, if the traffic cop had been using his speed camera, could he have issued speeding tickets to those other couple of boats?

Thanks

[dales133]

I didnt think they had any authority to police boating laws

[Bird]

Ahh police PR...

And 2000 more coming to Victoria that were bullied at school.. probably some from straight from the Apex Gang cause nobody else wants the job.

[Pete79]

I didnt think they had any authority to police boating laws

Best think again....

I'm just impressed the 'highway' copper knew the regs for nav lights. I'm guessing he was possibly maritime and had just got a lift with the other guy to go and harass everyone at the ramp.

By 'harass' I obviously mean 'make sure everyone is aware of the rules and do their best to try and keep everyone safe on the water over the crazy Christmas period'.
Because as I'm sure you would be aware, all of the idiots come out to play at this time of year, some (most) have no idea of the rules and don't care to get up to speed with what they should be doing until some cranky copper reminds them.

There was a perfect example of this on the highway at Nudgee on Friday. Following this old clapped out tinny on a rusted out trailer. The old crappy boat and the beat up ute towing it a packed full of the family camping gear. I'm directly behind looking at the rusted old trailer thinking to myself that I wouldn't be towing that thing very far, it looked like it was only held together by the rust.
As expected on this part of the highway the traffic comes to sudden dead stop, but there's no lights working on the trailer and the other crap piled up is blocking the lights on the vehicle.
I pull out to pass (have to overtake on the left of corse) and wind down my window to let them know. As I pass the back window I see 3 kids, wife is in the front passenger side with the window down.
I politely say "do you know you don't have any lights back there?" The wife looks surprised and says "are you sure? We don't have any lights?" I assure her there's nothing. She turns to the deadbeat dad and says "we don't have any tail lights!" His reply "I don't give a sh....!!!"

Stay safe out there.

[Beepa]

I have no problem with the coppers or fisheries going through their routine any time, but as said above all the once or twice a year pro's come out over xmas and some need paper "reminders." Boating is inherently dangerous and especially so for the young ones. Anyone who has ever stayed anchored or moored on a boat for a few days also knows the potential dangers of boats not doing 6 knots, creating waves and causing whatever you are cooking to slide around and possibly spill. Unfortunately some people are not smart enough to recognise dangers to themselves and others, and need a kick up the bum now and then for a reminder.

[tk421]

The QLD police now have a speed gun that is calibrated for Knots and KM, so can be used on either water or streets.

They were out in force the other weekend starting their yearly pre-Xmas crack down on Jetskiers in my area. Good is all I can say.

[bergersau]

Certainly the State Police can enforce water safety laws. Though it sounds like the Police Officer may have been exaggerating a couple of points.

Nowhere can I find anything defining where a navigation light must be positioned on a small power vessel, except that the Port/Starboard Red green navigation lights must be visible for at least 2 nautical miles in a 112.5* arc from the bow back towards the stern and that there must be a white "Masthead" light visible for 360* in all directions for the same distance.

Likewise I cannot find anything in the PFD regs about the "minor fading" or a "minor tear" in the compliance tag.  It does stand to reason that both the lights, PFD's and all other safety gear must be in serviceable condition though.
I do know that inflatable PFD's must be inspected/serviced annually, some brands do however allow for owner inspection and signoff instead of requiring return to an authorised agent for inspection.

A couple of things to watch out for:
* When launching if there is only a single person on board (As is common) PFD MUST be worn ('Heightened risk' as loan occupant).

* Motor vehicle seat belt laws apply at boat ramps and carparks. (Though whilst actually launching or retrieving on the ramp you could probably talk you way out of a fine on safety grounds due to the need to quickly exit the vehicle in case the vehicle was to end up in the water..

* No One should ride in the boat whilst it is on the trailer.

Police will ping you for all these infractions.

[Pete79]

Certainly the State Police can enforce water safety laws. Though it sounds like the Police Officer may have been exaggerating a couple of points.

Nowhere can I find anything defining where a navigation light must be positioned on a small power vessel, except that the Port/Starboard Red green navigation lights must be visible for at least 2 nautical miles in a 112.5* arc from the bow back towards the stern and that there must be a white "Masthead" light visible for 360* in all directions for the same distance.

Perhaps (and this is purely an assumption) the nav lights were permanently fixed on the sides of the bow, but too far towards the nose and the flair or side rails could have restricted the visible angle, so the officer couldn't see them if he was standing towards the rear of the boat.
His argument could have been if they were 50mm further back from the centre of the nose they would be more visible. Or he could have just been in the mood to pick on every little issue, just because he had a badge that said he could.

Also interesting to hear about the life jacket for single person launching. Hadn't heard that one before.

[GUEY]

I pull out to pass (have to overtake on the left of corse) and wind down my window to let them know. As I pass the back window I see 3 kids, wife is in the front passenger side with the window down.
I politely say "do you know you don't have any lights back there?" The wife looks surprised and says "are you sure? We don't have any lights?" I assure her there's nothing. She turns to the deadbeat dad and says "we don't have any tail lights!" His reply "I don't give a sh....!!!"

Stay safe out there.

Heading off on holidays with three screaming kids in the back, and nagging wife in the front, I reckon that would be my response also.
Hope the bloke enjoyed a well earned beer when he got to his destination 

[Pete79]

Heading off on holidays with three screaming kids in the back, and nagging wife in the front, I reckon that would be my response also.
Hope the bloke enjoyed a well earned beer when he got to his destination 

That's if he did get to his destination and didn't have to brake quickly on the highway and because he had no lights everyone behind him had absolutely he was stopping he got rear ended by a semi trailer that killed his screaming kids and nagging wife.

Hope I don't meet any more of your unroadworthy mates with bad attitudes on the highway this year.

[GUEY]

That's if he did get to his destination and didn't have to brake quickly on the highway and get rear ended by a semi trailer that killed his screaming kids and nagging wife.

Hope I don't meet you or your unroadworthy mates with bad attitudes on the highway this year.

  I guess you've asked for a sense of humor this xmas?

[Pete79]

I guess you've asked for a sense of humor this xmas?

Damn it! You got me.

[bergersau]

Perhaps (and this is purely an assumption) the nav lights were permanently fixed on the sides of the bow, but too far towards the nose and the flair or side rails could have restricted the visible angle, so the officer couldn't see them if he was standing towards the rear of the boat.
His argument could have been if they were 50mm further back from the centre of the nose they would be more visible. Or he could have just been in the mood to pick on every little issue, just because he had a badge that said he could.

Also interesting to hear about the life jacket for single person launching. Hadn't heard that one before.

I see your point @Pete79 - you could well be right.

As for the lifejacket rules; From page 20 of the Victorian Recreational Boating Safety Handbook:

Personal Flotation Devices (PFDs)
Wearing of PFDs on recreational vessels
Victoria has requirements for the wearing of PFDs at certain times
on recreational vessels. Under the regulations, you may be required
to wear a specified type of PFD when in an open area of a recreational
vessel that is under way.
When wearing of PFDs on recreational vessels is required at all times
All occupants of the following vessels are required to wear a specified
PFD when in an open area of a vessel that is underway:
• Power driven vessels up to and including 4.8 metres (m) in length
• Off-the-beach sailing yachts
• Personal watercraft
• Canoes, kayaks and rowing boats
• Pedal boats and fun boats
• Kite boards and sail boards
• Recreational tenders.
Wearing of PFDs on recreational vessels during times of heightened risk
All occupants of the following vessels are required to wear a specified
PFD (see table for PFD types) at times of heightened risk when in an open
area of a vessel that is underway:
• Yachts (including monohull, trailerable and multihull yachts,
excluding off-the-beach sailing yachts)
• Power driven vessels greater than 4.8 m and less than 12 m.
Heightened risk
    •    when the vessel is crossing or attempting to cross an ocean
bar or designated hazardous area
    •    when the vessel is being operated by a person who is alone
    •    when being operated at night (commencing one hour after
sunset and ending one hour before sunrise) or in periods of
restricted visibility
    •    when there is significant likelihood that the vessel may capsize
or be swamped by waves or the occupants of the vessel may
fall overboard or be forced to enter the water
    •    when the vessel is operating in an area where: a gale warning,
storm warning, severe thunderstorm warning or severe weather warning
issued by the Bureau of Meteorology is current
• when the vessel is a yacht where there are no safety barriers,
lifelines, rails, safety harnesses or jacklines in use.
What does under way mean?
Under way means not at anchor, made fast to the shore, or aground.
If you are drifting you are under way.
 Vessels travelling at any speed are at risk of being involved in an
incident where the occupants suddenly and unexpectedly enter the
water. Nationally, 17% of all fatalities occurred whilst the vessel was
drifting, which is typically at slow speed.
What is meant by an open area?
An open area, in the case of a recreational vessel, means:
– all deck areas, including coach roofs, superstructures, open flying
bridges, trampolines and nets, excluding areas within a rigid deck
house, a rigid cabin, a rigid half cabin or a securely enclosed under
deck space; or
– in the case of vessels without a deck, means the whole vessel
excluding areas within a rigid cabin or a securely enclosed space; or
– in the case of kayaks or canoes, means the whole vessel.

Personally, I think that fining someone for being solo and not wearing a PFD whilst backing a 6m Bar Crusher boat off the trailer and idling up to a pier is not the hazard the legislation was meant to cover.  However I personally know someone who was  fined for exactly that last summer. Technically he was operating the vessel alone and that is one definition of "Heightened Risk".

[Pete79]

Ahh, Ok.
There are a few rules in your list that are different here in QLD.

[stabicraft]

I volunteer for Marine rescue in NSW

To say that more than half of boaters are idiots is an understatement.

You should see some of the craft we "Rescue" and more than 2/3 of the boats going over the bar are definitely not sea capable craft and most occupants never wear life jackets.

I also see idiots standing up in the front of a tinny, while the helmsman at the tiller barges his way through oncoming waves.

We have boats in trouble all the time and I sometimes think they have a death wish.
People who wear inappropriate clothing and get serious sun burn are common, but we also get dehydrated people and some suffering sun stroke.
Even entire boats and crew sea sick on the one boat, geee

We have rules that mandate what we do and how we do it, They are all necessary.

Finally, if you own a boat, Check the damn motor and fuel BEFORE you get to the ramp.
A few min starting it up and running it at home will save you hours of trouble, and for a few bucks STABIL fuel additive will prevent fuel going off and leaving you stranded

[Johnnos3003]

I volunteer for Marine rescue in NSW

To say that more than half of boaters are idiots is an understatement.

Haha 

[GBC]

There was a sting on the Brisbane river a while back on Nav lights. The most common offence was turning off the white all round light whilst underway. It's not an anchor light, it's a riding light and it must stay on from dusk to dawn.
Second was the positioning off the riding lights and the unbroken arc of visibility. Those white lights on a stick that plug into the gunwale are stern lights, not riding lights, because human bodies, consoles, screens, cabins etc all break the arc. Basically a riding light should be about the highest thing on the boat. Food for thought as most of us didn't comply.
As for checks, I'm all for it.

[Paddler Ed]

It's cheaper and less distressing for the police (who are human after all) to go round and let people know to sort their sh!t out than to deal with the aftermath of stupidity/incompetence.

I'm all for:
-RBT/RDT
-Vehicle condition inspections
-Driver fatigue checks
-Generally letting people know when they're being tools.

[bully]

GBC yep I was one who got busted in the Brisbane river for no white light. I was always of the understanding it was an anchor light and the young fella and I went out flicking lures for the evening so as I was not anchoring I did not have white light up. Well wasn't I the biggest criminal on earth. One of the cops treated me like I was the biggest criminal and spoke to me like it as well. When he was writing out the ticket the other cop started talking to me and asked why I didn't have it up. I truly did not know the rule had changed but that was my fault for not keeping up with the ruling. He went over to the other cop and said I was only to get a warning.
I am more than happy for them to be doing their job but they don't have to be an asshole because they have some authority. I understand they must come across some pricks but surely the situation should be sused out before the cop comes out in them.
Yes I was in the wrong for one thing but everything else was good including the young fella weAring a life jacket just in case.

[Jeepers Creepers]

Consistency is the problem.

We got pulled over a couple of years ago with the boat.

1st time, all good..no probs after a thorough check of everything. (2 blokes, really pleasent to deal with.)
5 week later.
2nd time, all good.. no probs, until one of 'em noted our rego number was undersize, thorough talking to explaining the life and death situation undersized rego stickers can cause blah blah blah.

Let off with a warning by two snotty cops.

Even though the numbers were there for 5 years like that from before we owned it, we did change them to the correct size.

INCORRECT SIZE, numbers too small.



CORRECT SIZE, numbers now much easier to read. 

[Bird]

James is a legend LMAO!

[DrewXT]

I've been around floating money pits all of my life in various forms.  Servicing, racing, and these days just fishing and water skiing, and stabicraft hit the nail on the head, the number of f-wits out there with no clue is astounding, and it's not just the power boats...few years

I rescued and towed a guy from P2 in Port Phillip Bay, in a nearly 2 metres swell, back to St Kilda Marina one day a few years back, after he broke the rudder on his trailer sailer, and couldn't start his dinky little outboard because he didn't know how...

Got him back, having watched him drink beers whilst under tow, no thanks, wasn't offered a beer, and then had to run about 5km into the same swell to the ramp I'd launched at...  Not one of my finest days...

On speeding, we go to Forster/Tuncurry several times a year, as the outlaws live there, and either take the money pit or or Hobie Kayaks, and no bastard ever does 4 knots in the no wash zones, despite there being swimmers, kids fishing, guys on SUP's, etc... And you never see a Water Rat when these guys are about...  Even the hire boats break the limits.  I'm obsessive about doing the right thing, given how long I've been around boats and in the industry, but sometimes it makes you wonder...

And don't get me started on jetskiiers...  I hate to stereotype, but on the whole, they take it to a whole different level...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Fizzie]

Rules for Qld

Nav lights: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwi1zv_Xl4HRAhWBRpQKHU4WAc8QjBAIIjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msq.qld.gov.au%2F-%2Fmedia%2FMSQInternet%2FMSQFiles%2FHome%2FSafety%2FNavigation-lights%2FPdf_nmsc_brochure_tips_installing_nav_lights.pdf%3Fla%3Den&usg=AFQjCNHqu3gVXGafFTKVF55b2MF0lwZ96A&sig2=s-0odsDxqTjmenont167Jw&bvm=bv.142059868,d.dGo

Nothing listed about position except as Pete mentioned earlier - they may have been mounted so that the red & green lights were visible outside of their proper arc's?

Life jacket FAQs: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwiugZWrloHRAhXHmJQKHYXeAtkQFghKMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msq.qld.gov.au%2F-%2Fmedia%2FMSQInternet%2FMSQFiles%2FHome%2FPublications%2FMarineinformationbulletins%2Fmib_lifejacket_pfd_faqs.pdf%3Fla%3Den&usg=AFQjCNFSGQerW7qdwy3NjVXBZ3eV3Jk3IQ&sig2=ABp2Cs130Q8ZSb23FzfZag&cad=rjt
which includes:

Condition requirements: The condition of a lifejacket may also affect its compliance with the standard. A lifejacket will be considered non-compliant (and attract a fine) if it shows signs of deterioration, like:
? stiff or cracked fabric
? colour fading
? pulled stitching.

& some more: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiugZWrloHRAhXHmJQKHYXeAtkQFghEMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msq.qld.gov.au%2F~%2Fmedia%2Fmsqinternet%2Fmsqfiles%2Fhome%2Fsafety%2Flifejackets%2520personal%2520flotation%2520devices%2Flifejackets_faq.pdf&usg=AFQjCNH1CZ9BcrJaaQKXK-OQHx1MHKfDLQ&sig2=1w1JLrKUE_W24QQsVOtwKw&cad=rjt

including:

When is it compulsory to wear a life jacket?
A. It is compulsory to wear a life jacket:
? when crossing a designated coastal bar in an open boat that is less than 4.8 m in length
? if you are under the age of 12 in an open boat that is less than 4.8 m in length, while it is under way.

So it's OK to take your boat off the trailer without wearing a jacket, but:

? All personal watercraft – operators and passengers to wear a PFD at all times while underway.

Mate of mine got a warning a few years ago for not wearing a jacket on his jetski - he backed it off the trailer & brought it straight back onto the beach 5 m's away without a jacket on, but wateries were there & warned him - said that if he'd looped out away from the bank then beached they would have fined him on the spot 

Totally agree with the various comments about enforcing rules though - as Stabi said, we in VMR have seen it all!   

[rotare]

Like most things in life, do the right thing and understand the rules you need to abide by and you probably won't have too much trouble.  Problem is many people pick and choose which rules apply to them, then get upset when they get busted for not complying.  An innocent mistake is a bit different to someone intentionally disregarding the rules.

Every time I've had my boat and safety gear checked by Marine and Harbours, fisheries or whomever else I've never had a problem.  Yeah it's a minor inconvenience, but they've got a job to do too.  Just be polite, cooperate and you'll likely get a courteous response in return.  In every profession there's people who don't have very good people skills, however I can only imagine that BS excuses start wearing thin for why peoples flares are 5 years out of date, trailer lights don't work, there's not enough life jackets on board, no fire extinguisher, lack of safety equipment etc. 

There's no-one else to blame if you don't understand the rules before you hook your boat to your car and decide to spend the day on the water. 

[Beachman]

I had no problems being questioned because apart from my perceived faded Lifejacket I didn’t have anything to hide. Just surprised it was a traffic cop asking the questions.

I’ve only got a 3.7m tinnie and 95% of its life is spent in small rivers or creeks were the bank is a 5 minute swim away.

Everyone is correct as to the reason the old guy was given a hard time about his navigation lights being in the wrong spot as they were 5cm forward from there they should have been installed, this inturn meant they couldn’t be seen at the back of the boat.

But the guy made a valid point that these were installed 10+ years ago buy a boating shop and due to the height/shape of his tinnie, if they were installed where the copper suggested, then they would have been smashed when tided to the pontoon at the boat ramp.

But agree Jetski’s are a law until themselves.