Author Topic: Owning an Investment Property  (Read 16064 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Troopy_03

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2192
  • Thanked: 303 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Now a small poptop c'van. Really miss the CT :-(
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2016, 06:38:56 PM »
I have seen comments from investing guru's saying not to invest in Defence homes.

Yes, guaranteed, trustworthy tenants, but apparently DHA take quite a hefty bite out of your returns, & there's usually not a lot of capital growth in the homes.
DHA charge a 15% management fee instead of the usual 7% that other managers charge. But they do all the minor maintenance for that, they cover the cost of cleaning between tenants, you get rental income even when they are unoccupied, and when the lease has run out, they re-carpet and repaint the property. We have one DHA rental, and one managed by a real estate agent. I know which one I prefer. The rental income for DHA leased is usually at the top of the bracket for the area, and as far as capitol growth is concerned, that is entirely dependent on the property market in that area. Unfortunately for the OP, there doesn't seem to be many DHA properties in Tassie
4.2L TD Toyota Troopy, (Clarke's Country Camper Trailer, softfloor.) sold it and bought a Avan Ray small poptop caravan.

Offline 4runnernomore

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 695
  • Thanked: 17 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2016, 10:36:45 PM »
DHA charge a 15% management fee instead of the usual 7% that other managers charge. But they do all the minor maintenance for that, they cover the cost of cleaning between tenants, you get rental income even when they are unoccupied, and when the lease has run out, they re-carpet and repaint the property. We have one DHA rental, and one managed by a real estate agent. I know which one I prefer. The rental income for DHA leased is usually at the top of the bracket for the area, and as far as capitol growth is concerned, that is entirely dependent on the property market in that area. Unfortunately for the OP, there doesn't seem to be many DHA properties in Tassie

I will give you a DHA tenant customer perspective on this one.

I am a long term defence employee here,  over 25 years service and have lived in DHA properties ranging from absolute dumps to brand new properties. DHA  are supposed to maintain the property for the owner. From my experience DHA are 10 times worse than normal real estate agents. I have also had investment properties so know what it's like dealing with real estate agents long distance.  If you can get some one to come around and do the maintanence or fix what is actually requires repair. The amount of band aids or outright crap fixes performed by DHA that I have seen over the years I will never never never have a DHA INVESTMENT PROPERTY knowing that "the investor" is paying top dollar and through the nose for this supposed premium investment service.

In between tenants ( posting cycles) they are suppose to have the property professionally cleaned etc  and they actually take this out of the defence persons allowances now on posting. The bullShit charges they Can also impose on a member borders on criminal.  You have a vacation inspection a few weeks prior to your removal date and they will identify issues that require cleaning/fixing. You can have your married quarter spotless, have the gardens immaculate and then still get stung after you have moved out. A lot of members are taking photographic proof now on vacation to stop this from happening otherwise it is your word against theirs.

Most properties are not professionally cleaned because a lot of older defence personnel are used to having what we used to call the white glove clean when defence housing was run by defence. They clean the properties to an inch of their lives for fear of been slugged thousands of dollars in charges for absolute minor things. Very rarely  a carpets cleaned in between tenants although they are charged for it. DHA will send cleaners around just before tenants are  supposed to move in  and are lucky to have a lick and a promise. This grieves me no end when we are forced to pay Hundreds of dollars to have a house professionally cleaned and we  clean it out ourselves and then have to do the same thing at the other end. Nine times out of ten before you move in to a defence property you ask to get the keys early so you can clean it before your effects arrive. If the average person saw what goes on with DHA during Posting  cycle they would be moritified.

Long term defence personnel know to take dated photos of the property when they first move in, ensure they have an email trail for all maintanence for The property they moving into so that they do not get stung by DHA trying to shaft the tenant with repairs they were supposed to fix either prior to a tenant moving in or during tenancy through wear and tear etc. Most defence personnel I know would prefer to be in their own homes or seek private rentals than have to deal with DHA because the experience is that bad.

Thank god for a number of years I now have my own home and I no longer have to deal with DHA.

Also define fair wear and tear. A lot of defence families can stay in one property for 9-12 years. I have seen members been told they have to pay for full refurbishment and repainting of houses after living in them for that long. Most members will improve homes, establish gardens and increase the value of the property. A lot of the time houses were already old before moving in and in poor to average condition before they moved in.  Add children growing up from babies to teenagers, of course a property will deteriorate and have fair wear and tear in carpets on walls, vertical blinds etc. The stress and threats a member  has to go through on a already very stressful period during posting is unbelievable if their are housing issues, usually resulting in internal DCO advocates having to be appointed to try and resolve the issues.

I have been in two brand new homes over my years, the first person to move into a brand new property. The lists of defects we have had to try and get DHA to fix on both occasions would make your eyes bulge and if you were the owner investor you would physically be ill. I have even had to engage a lawyer to resolve a maintanance  and safety issue with DHA with a brand new oven that had a design fault that caused the oven door to fall off. Theovendoor caused a serious foot injury to my wife and 18 months of rehab to fix. Luckily she was in defence as well so all our medical bills were paid for.  We were  without a useable oven for  months because DHA would not replace it claiming there was nothing wrong with it. It took a letter threatening to take them to court and A letter from and independent repair person at my own cost identifying that the supplied oven was faulty and had been identified with a safety recall which I had already provided them with before  they finally replaced the oven with a new model. To make things worse these ovens had been bought in bulk and were fitted to nearly all the DHA houses in the estate we lived in and ours was the only one replaced that I am aware of. . I hate to imagine what would have happened if the same injury my wife received happened to a a child or defence spouse who was a civilian and had to pay for the medical bills themselves that we experienced.

DHA is a money making machine, they charge premium prices for poor to average builds at best, rip off the owner with massively inflated management fees at double the standard rate. They are  now almost a law to themselves and just about untouchable. There have been a number of inhouse investigations on DHA within government on their "management practises and behaviour".

Ask any defence spouse about DHA, there will be very few that will give you a positive view of them.

Would I invest in a DHA property, from my experience as a customer (tenant), experience first hand what actually happens to the properties and having my own investment properties over the years I most definitely would not.


Cheers, Chris





Offline MDS69

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 1741
  • Thanked: 106 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2016, 09:00:44 AM »
Two stories
First one - my boss had a DHA house he purchased new. For the 15 years it was u der DHA it increased in value by 100% from around $265k to around $540k but that is in the hot Sydney market out Windsor way. He recently took back control and f the property as the DHA contract finished and now uses a civilian agent for a private tenant. Upon the defence tenant moving out the property had all the required maintenance and painting done and the yard was returfed at the tenants cost due to their dog. My boss was very happy with the last 15 years.

Second one - I live in a street of 13 houses in a 13-15 year old development. 3 houses are DHA. We have seen some feral tenants and some excellent tenants, much the same as civilians. Two of these houses are bagged and painted exterior. I have seen these painted twice in 10 years. Some of the civilian houses have the same exterior finish and haven't been painted once apart from initial build but do seem to look presentable. The DHA have been painted around 3 times internally. My house has been painted once and I have two young kids, well they are 14 and 11 now so have grown up in this house. Between rotations all have been carpet cleaned again more than my house. In the street that runs off the end of ours there are another 8-10 DHA. Again most seem to be maintained.
I don't know if DHA have been unreasonable in their dealing with tenants in story two but the poster above seems to have had a rough trot.

Offline Troopy_03

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2192
  • Thanked: 303 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Now a small poptop c'van. Really miss the CT :-(
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2016, 09:35:11 AM »
Yep, I was a defence member for 22 years, and that was prior to DHA. All rental properties were administered by Housing Section, apart from approved external rentals, but they weren't very common. At least with DHA the houses need to meet a minimum standard, and be of a minimum age, not like the old dog boxes we were supposed to live in. Anyway, that's right off topic.

From a property owners point of view, DHA are a pretty good deal, and they make sure your property is looked after, unlike many other rental property managers. And I've had a couple of crap ones managing a property that was distant from where I lived at the time. Funny thing was, one of the worst tenants was actually a defence member who had punched holes in doors and a wall, left dog crap on a carpet in one room, nail polish spilt on the carpet in another room, the yard was a pig stye with a mound of more dog crap behind the garage about 3 foot high, missing fittings from the house, etc, etc.. I found out about this after driving from Melbourne to Port Stephens, arriving at the house ready to move back in.. When I approached the agent who was managing it, about the state of the property, her reply was "Yes, that property is pretty bad isn't it" FMD.. I went off... And they had even OK'd the tennants getting their bond back from the Rental Bond Board..

 In the end the agent paid for our accommodation for 2 days in a motel while they cleaned the place up a bit, and arranged to get the damage repaired. But it was a bodgy job, and I ended doing it properly myself anyway. The agent we have now is good, but I keep a pretty close eye on what happens, and do most of the maintenance on the place myself anyway.
4.2L TD Toyota Troopy, (Clarke's Country Camper Trailer, softfloor.) sold it and bought a Avan Ray small poptop caravan.

Offline Nifty1

  • Tent User
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2016, 09:46:59 AM »
I've got THREE stories.
1. Bought as an investment in a country town in the early 2000s, and due to good luck it earned more for me in capital growth that year than my salary. Sold at close to 100% profit after just over a year. Lesson: luck comes in handy.
2. Bought a much more expensive townhouse off the plan in a country coastal area and put it on holiday rental. Struggled to sell it after about 15 years and lost about $150k. Lesson: if there are 5 units and three of them are on the market, you'll have a problem. I wouldn't buy a unit again.
3. Bought a beachside block, built our retirement home (big, modern, fabulous views etc) rented it out while waiting to get old enough to move in - god I loved that place. Then grandkids started to come into the world and suddenly we wanted to be a bit closer to them and our kids, so we sold it just for that reason. In retrospect it still worked out as a good investment but would have been even better if we had borrowed the same amount to put in the sharemarket. Lesson: it's hard to plan ahead sometimes - your priorities get thrown aside by the most ordinary of events.

Don't lose sight of the fact that negative gearing is of real value if you are highly taxed, but not so good if your tax is low. And if you invest in shares you can always sell just a few as needed, but you can't sell just a part of a house - it's all or nothing. Good luck. It's great to have a plan and I'm sure you'll do well with all the advice that is coming your way!
Tvan + Terracan
Hilux Adventure Camper
1999 Outback Sturt - an oldie but a goodie. Updated of course (passed on within family)
The following users thanked this post: PWE

Offline GBC

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 1984
  • Thanked: 325 times
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2016, 12:06:47 PM »
We built and 'maintained' for DHA for 15 years. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with them again. Work orders would come through like "Repair cracked cornice in lounge room". Upon attending site it took 2 seconds to ascertain that termites had eaten the house starting from the leaking shower in the adjoining bathroom, and that the reason the cornice needed fixing was that the wall it was attached to is now an inch shorter. They used to have qualified people administering contracts - not any more. In the end, trying to justify normal work was just too difficult and they were handing contracts to non qualified handymen. Not what I'd want any property of mine to be treated like.

Offline PWE

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Thanked: 24 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2016, 04:34:06 PM »
I will bend over backwards to look after the tenant, due to the reletting costs.
How much is the reletting cost?
I just it took two months for myne to be let.
Change is good, so smile and enjoy life!
Landcruiser 76 tourer

Offline PWE

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Thanked: 24 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2016, 04:48:18 PM »
Any good, bad and plain ugly realestate agents at the Sunshine Coast?
I am not impress with my current agent (Coolum Beach Realestate) and am think of moving.
Also, do you go with big estate agents or go with the smaller local guys?
Change is good, so smile and enjoy life!
Landcruiser 76 tourer

Offline Pete79

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2442
  • Thanked: 562 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2016, 06:28:07 AM »
Any good, bad and plain ugly realestate agents at the Sunshine Coast?
I am not impress with my current agent (Coolum Beach Realestate) and am think of moving.
Also, do you go with big estate agents or go with the smaller local guys?
PM sent.

Offline Nomad

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2622
  • Thanked: 94 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2016, 07:35:38 PM »
Any good, bad and plain ugly realestate agents at the Sunshine Coast?
I am not impress with my current agent (Coolum Beach Realestate) and am think of moving.
Also, do you go with big estate agents or go with the smaller local guys?

Have a chat to Greg Glover at PRD in Coolum.