Author Topic: Owning an Investment Property  (Read 16067 times)

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Offline oldmate

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2016, 06:53:51 PM »
We have a unit in surfers paradise. Great tenant, great location, as in close to public transport, ground floor etc.  when you look at a buying something you need to look st it from a tenents point of view, not as something you would like if you know what I mean.  Agree with keeping good tenants. We just resigned our for another year just today and didn't put rent up as they have looked after the place great and being trouble free. Even got a bottle of wine in return. For us it is part of my super as I am self employed.


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Offline Nomad

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2016, 07:08:57 PM »
I used to ave a few.
I hate owning residential as an investment.
I only have my own house and a holiday house I don't rent out to anyone.

Have a look at commercial property.
Much better returns and outgoings generally paid by the tenant.
Stronger cashflow and if you do your homework much higher potential gains by virtue of rezoningor town planning upgrades.

I am biased but!

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Offline Jakster1

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2016, 07:53:48 PM »
We've been majorly eff'd around numerous times in regards to our rental properties. One time we sold out because it was just more hassle than what it was worth. ( involved cops removing tenants, property manager couldn't/wouldn't do anything)
There will always be ongoing costs other than loan repayments, this can be in the thousands at a time so be prepared for that.
We have only one now which were currently doing the numbers to sell or hang onto. I'm at the stage where I'd rather put the money back into my own lifestyle than bother with residential investment.
If property values are not expected to rise then I'd look at putting your money elsewhere.
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Offline Discoduck

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2016, 08:38:13 PM »
Couple of things:
As pointed out, make sure area has employment and transport, but also check for schools, churches, shops - the stuff everyone needs
Also remember that negative gearing is negative. It relies on later capital growth. This can take a LONG time.
If you do a study of returns on property v shares since the 1960s you will see that overall they are pretty much even.
If you invest in property and need some cash you have to sell the entire investment; with a share portfolio you can sell just part of your exposure if required.
Make sure you understand the tenancy laws of your state as they vary around Aust. Don't give your tenants an inch; if they default on a week's rent go straight to the tribunal for a judgement. DON'T leave it by being kind. It is a business deal so run it that way.
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Offline rags

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2016, 09:41:21 PM »
I used to ave a few.
I hate owning residential as an investment.
I only have my own house and a holiday house I don't rent out to anyone.

Have a look at commercial property.
Much better returns and outgoings generally paid by the tenant.
Stronger cashflow and if you do your homework much higher potential gains by virtue of rezoningor town planning upgrades.

I am biased but!



 :cheers:
Agree Nomad, similar to you we have our principal residence and a place up the Sunny Coast for our use. The only difference being is our principal residence includes a second dwelling that we get a "boarding fee" from the daughter and partner. It helps them so they can get ahead while paying the bills for us. With this arrangement depending on how it is structured being a principal residence it is not subject to capital gains tax or included in asset test. In the future we have the option of renting it out or even moving in to the 2nd dwelling and rent the main house enabling traveling for us. All the while it offers a the potential to capital gain especially as the larger lots surrounding are being developed for green field blocks and the sprawl will meet us soon.
As it is mentioned elsewhere the other issue is with a investment property you can't sell part of a property if you need a portion of the money.
your advise with commercial property is spot on as depending on the property type the maintanance costs are next to nothing. For example, a tilt up concrete factory unit  there is very little to go wrong., as they have a simple kitchen setup, a bathroom and not much else. The tennants pays fit out cost. Your costs are reduced by the 10% GST that can be claimed. Typically the leases are over longer terms. And if it is not rented then you have somewhere to store the caravan.
I often joke to wife that  if we separated I will put a unit in on a mezzanine floor of the factory unit and live there and will have all the room downstairs to have my toys, the ultimate man cave.

Offline Rocky and Bullwinkle

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2016, 06:15:46 AM »
I have had a few rental properties sold one last year outer suburban Melbourne, nice Town house fully detached good out look, 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, powder room down stairs purchased off the plan good sized 2 car garage with a small store room off it. A big reverse cycle aircon unit. Sold it after 11 Years, I will have lost money on the deal. I felt I needed to get rid of it while interest rate were low. It took 3 years and 2 agents to sell. My break even point was $275k it went for $30 k less. The other is in a inner suburb 1 bedroom unit off the plan again. No capital growth after 6 years due to the huge over supply in Melbourne, I will bend over backwards to look after the tenant, due to the reletting costs. I much prefer the stock market.

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Offline HEM19X

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2016, 06:30:30 AM »
Danny, I have only scanned all of the responses but as you are going to contribute 20% I would make sure that the lender does not LINK your owner occupied property to the investment loan in any way, shape or form. This will protect your home in case something goes wrong with the investment property...

Tenants move out, markets fall, circumstances [aka "Shite" happens] & the last thing you want is to have the additional worry of potentially losing your home. The worst that can happen is the Bank sells the investment property, takes it's money & you get anything left over.

Sounds pessimistic but after 30 odd years in finance, you need to be sure.

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Offline JCOJ

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2016, 01:14:45 PM »
Disclaimer: I'm a real estate agent and I have an 'investment' property in Queenstown, Tas.

You need to look at the reasons you want to buy this unit - are you looking to get capital growth out of it, or an income in retirement?  The answer to this is when you intend to sell.

It is fine to negative gear, keep the mortgage high and pay interest only, if you have a place in a great location that will appreciate over time that you plan to sell come retirement time, however if you are looking longer term and want an additional income stream in your retirement, and never plan to sell but leave the property to your kids when you die, then I would be paying P&I (principal and interest) payments so it is paid off by the time you retire (assuming 25 yrs), and then capital growth doesn't matter so much, but your place will be paid off and your rental income then becomes your retirement income.

Places in Tasmania do not have great capital growth and I am happy to use myself as an example.  I purchased my unit there as it had a great rental return at the time at what I thought was a cheap price.  There are now units for sale in the same complex for $20k less.  Also my great rent return went from $160pw to being vacant for 14 months before I was able to secure a tenant at $105pw!

I would be hesitant to purchase in a small Tas town again, however if you are comfortable with the scenario of the above possibly happening to you then go ahead. 

My strategy is option 2 - income in retirement, so I don't care what the values are - couldn't care if they went down to $10.  The rental returns matter more to me, and a vacancy of 14 months isn't great but while I'm working I can deal with it, but when retired I wouldn't be so happy.

All things to take into consideration.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 01:32:24 PM by JCOJ »

Offline gronk

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2016, 02:17:47 PM »


It is fine to negative gear, keep the mortgage high and pay interest only, if you have a place in a great location that will appreciate over time that you plan to sell come retirement time,

That's what I thought I was doing 10 yrs ago. My mistake was probably not enough research. What could go wrong with a unit in a popular seaside town ? Stagnant property growth for 10 yrs, plus the GFC just after buying didn't help.

My personal preference would be to have an "investment" property close to home.....I couldn't trust a real estate to manage a "remote " property 1000K's away !
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2016, 02:40:00 PM »
I am pretty happy with our property agent.
Very helpful and inspections done at a regular basis.
We are going to Melbourne next year so I might do flight the tax deductable.
But that means that we have to go to the property/agent.
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Offline richee

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2016, 08:33:58 PM »
If you really want to invest in property, have a look at defence housing.
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Offline McGirr

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2016, 09:06:27 PM »
Personally, I would never buy an investment property. I have spent 8 years, when in realestate, watching people lose hundreds of thousands on investment properties.

The big issue is greed, they never want to sell when the market is a sellers market then complain when they have to sell in a buyers market and lose money on the sale.

People can make money but need to do their homework which the majority don't.

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Offline jayjay

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2016, 09:36:57 PM »
I am about to go to auction tomorrow to sell my last residential investment property. I will be relieved when it goes.
I did buy a bargain, but  cheaper properties usually attract a cheaper type of tenant.... another example of the classic saying that you get what you pay for.
Yes, I could have held onto it, but after having it for 15years, it was due for a massive injection of funds- and I simply would not have seen a return on that kind of expense. Yes, I did regular maintenance, painting etc, but eventually things age to the point of big-time maintenance.......... it just becomes more hassle than it's worth.
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Offline cheif carlos

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2016, 10:53:32 PM »
I convinced my wife to sell her investment property for the following reasons, too many headaches having to get repairs done, as they where units had to have sinking funds for major repairs then having to have majority of owners agree to "upgrade" as apposed to just repair major issues.

Since this we have bought a few shares, only blue chip so in for the long haul. Also quite a few blue chip shares are still worth buying for medium term gain
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Offline Sixtys Guy

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2016, 07:04:41 AM »
Hey Danny. We have a few rental properties here is Tas. Capital growth isn't great, but over 15 years some have done well, some haven't (St Helens). The beauty of investing here is that picking the right property means it will be positively geared, unless there are unforeseen maintenance issues.

As someone else suggested, pay the 20% deposit you have off your own home and then borrow against the equity in your home. You want to maximise your debt on rental property as the interest is tax deductible, the interest on your own home isn't. I personally would (initially) get the investment loan as interest only. Any 'excess' rental money can then be paid off your home loan. Once your home is paid off then start paying principal and interest off the investment loan. The idea is to have as little personal debt as possible.

My philosophy which has worked so far:

Buy brick with aluminium windows (weatherboard and timber windows requires too much maintenance)

Be prepared to update the kitchen, bathroom and laundry every few years. These are the things tenants pay most attention to and attract higher rental return. I don't mean fully renovate, I mean paint, new vanity, retile etc.  know you're a handy bloke, so I'm sure you could most if not all of that yourself.

Get good agent (we use Living Here in Launceston)

I think rentals are a good investment, but I think a broad strategy is best. Even if that just means investing more in Super, i think it is better to have more than one source of retirement income.
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2016, 07:07:06 AM »
wow I didnt think this would be such a hot topic.

Id like to reply to each response but instead Ill simply outline our situation and reasoning for considering this, and give some figures to try and make better sense of it.

But firstly its fair to say that everyone has different expectations for a so call investment property. And the true sense of the word 'investment' may not be the right term if your expectations are some what different to perhaps a person in a bigger city who at some stage wants returns on interest paid and all expenses occurred in the shorter term.

For us it is a real simple (I am a simple man who lives a very simple life  :D ) scenario of buying a modest property and having a tenant pay for that property over the next 20 years and then sell the property to give us some extra money in retirement. Why cant it be that simple??

So just to give some clarity Ill give some figures so you understand we are not talking sheep stations here, so my idea of an 'investment' property is going to be far removed from those of you that have a lot of money on the line in other parts of the country.

The house is only $150k and it is currently returning $165 per week after realestate fee's in income. We were considering mortgaging it separately to anything else we have going on, so we were thinking of paying a 30K deposit (only financing 80%), this would leave us with repayments of around $140 per week.

So as you can see it is chicken feed compared to you wealthy mainlanders!! So to answer some of the concerns, yes we are able to cover the loan repayments if we have a period of time it is not occupied. Yes we have enough savings to cover unexpected costs that will arise from time to time.
The property is cheap because of the situation of the current owners. In fact vacant lots of land the same size as this block of land (just over 1000sm) in this area are selling for this sort of money.

It is near shops, schools etc and has a very nice outlook. The dwelling on it is nothing special but it is clean and tidy and only about 13 years old, albeit very basic.

Growth down here is not great but who knows when the next real estate boom may be????  But having said that, there is absolutely zero chance of this properties value going down, in fact I believe we have an opportunity to grab it a very good price.

So once again we are simply considering buying it so we can one day sell it to give us some more money in retirement. Or who knows, perhaps we will be comfortable in retirement and we will keep it for the kids or perhaps I might get hit by a bus tomorrow so who knows how the next 20 years will pan out.

But having said all that, the only variant may be in how we go about this. I appreciate all the replies and suggestions of how best to do this, it has given us a lot to consider.

We are also in the process of preparing 4 acres of land near Launceston to build our final resting place so to speak  >:D Sounds morbid, but it will be our final home in life if everything pans out as we expect........
So we need to be careful not to jeopardise our plans there. Next week we are anticipating talking to the bankers to make sure we can make our future plans work.

Sadly my grandfather passed away about 12 months ago and he left us kids with an opportunity to get ahead a little in life, so another reason we are considering this property is to make the most of the position he has put us in.




« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 07:38:24 AM by DannyG »
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2016, 07:12:38 AM »

As someone else suggested, pay the 20% deposit you have off your own home and then borrow against the equity in your home. You want to maximise your debt on rental property as the interest is tax deductible, the interest on your own home isn't. I personally would (initially) get the investment loan as interest only. Any 'excess' rental money can then be paid off your home loan. Once your home is paid off then start paying principal and interest off the investment loan. The idea is to have as little personal debt as possible.



Gday Mate hows things up your end of the woods? Still doing the 4wd tour thing??

Thanks for that, this is the area we are not sure which way to go. Im hearing what your saying and agree but we need to be careful that we dont put ourselves in a situation where we are over committed at a later date.
In regards to the actual property it is a one off opportunity due to some circumstances of the current owners and our connection with that. We havent actually gone out and started looking for properties to buy as an investment, this has fallen on our lap so to speak.

Ill keep this topic updated with our progress.
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2016, 07:21:16 AM »
Disclaimer: I'm a real estate agent and I have an 'investment' property in Queenstown, Tas.

Queenstown still has people and properties??  ;D ;D

I would be hesitant to purchase in a small Tas town again, however if you are comfortable with the scenario of the above possibly happening to you then go ahead. 

In some ways all our towns are small. The property we are considering is up the north end of the state so whilst it is a small town I guess, it is a long way from the West coast small towns if you know what I mean. I live in the area, or at least near it.

My strategy is option 2 - income in retirement, so I don't care what the values are - couldn't care if they went down to $10.  The rental returns matter more to me, and a vacancy of 14 months isn't great but while I'm working I can deal with it, but when retired I wouldn't be so happy.

All things to take into consideration.


Thanks. Im comfortable this property wont drop in value but I wont be buying a block of units with its growth, so this is for retirement. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 07:39:00 AM by DannyG »
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Offline Sixtys Guy

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2016, 07:26:50 AM »
Gday Mate hows things up your end of the woods? Still doing the 4wd tour thing??

Thanks for that, this is the area we are not sure which way to go. Im hearing what your saying and agree but we need to be careful that we dont put ourselves in a situation where we are over committed at a later date.
In regards to the actual property it is a one off opportunity due to some circumstances of the current owners and our connection with that. We havent actually gone out and started looking for properties to buy as an investment, this has fallen on our lap so to speak.

Ill keep this topic updated with our progress.

Hey Danny, yeh all good! Had a tree change, living on a couple of acres just out of Launceston (north end). Yep still doing the tours.
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2016, 07:32:33 AM »
Hey Danny, yeh all good! Had a tree change, living on a couple of acres just out of Launceston (north end). Yep still doing the tours.

Really? We just bought 4 acres near Dilston! We might be future neighbours ;)
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Offline Sixtys Guy

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2016, 07:45:46 AM »
Really? We just bought 4 acres near Dilston! We might be future neighbours ;)

Underwood! We were originally looking down the river, but this one came up and we both loved it.
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2016, 07:56:29 AM »
Underwood! We were originally looking down the river, but this one came up and we both loved it.

Nice. We wont be living at Dilston for a couple of years yet until our youngest finishes high school out this way. We dont want to make her change schools at this stage. She will be going to college in Launceston, I work in town and the eldest two boys both work in or around town (assuming they will still be living with us in two years) so it makes sense to move closer to town.

Im not one to want to live in suburbia, I wanted to keep the rural lifestyle so we grabbed this property up on Doctors Hill. Most of it is quite steep but we didnt buy it to use the acreage as such, we bought it to give us space from neighbours and for the outlook. Plus the previous owners business went belly up so we grabbed it from the banks at a good price ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 07:58:03 AM by DannyG »
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Offline Swannie

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2016, 08:08:00 AM »
Danny at those numbers  your yield will be about 5% annually.. Anything around 5% these days in this economy is ok. But I do strongly suggest you deposit the cash into your home and borrow the maximum amount. its better for you to drop your $$ in your own home. it also gives you a buffer to redraw for repairs or lifes unexpected as you have the cash

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« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 08:09:47 AM by Doggies »
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Offline NewieCamper

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2016, 09:06:13 AM »
Have only browsed the thread, but will add a couple of cents.

We have just sold, waiting on settlement, and investment property. My wife had a savvy investor for a father who bought her and her siblings a house to live in to go to uni with an inheritance. Once all were married we bought out the others and kept the house. Fully repainted it inside before renting it out. The first tenants made a shocking mess (show prints on ceilings) and left a replacement stove looking like the 20yo one that burnt and took out some kitchen cabinets. The replacement tenants stayed for 10 years and looked after the place well. Our other investment property, sold a couple of years ago seemed difficult to get tenants and keep them, but was well looked after by those that did move in and we made a good gain on the price due to the market rising.

We got an estate agent in after the tenants moved out to see if it was worth replacing the aging kitchen and leaky bathrooms and painting and renovating the whole place. The agents opinion was to sell as is. We could have spent a lot of money to update the house, but his opinion was that the renovation would not create a bigger return, and it would have taken quite a few months of hard yakka with me doing most of the work to make it worthwhile. Decision made, and on the market it went.

Overall I'm not sure it was a great investment, but it was a way of forced savings becuase it was negatively geared, the money that went in interest costs might have been spent. Fortunately the housing market here has been good to us and we have sold at a good price. If we had chucked all the money into our home mortgage initially would we be in the same position? No idea, but we will be mortgage free soon so it's worked out ok.

Offline Fizzie

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Re: Owning an Investment Property
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2016, 09:59:18 AM »
If you really want to invest in property, have a look at defence housing.

I have seen comments from investing guru's saying not to invest in Defence homes.

Yes, guaranteed, trustworthy tenants, but apparently DHA take quite a hefty bite out of your returns, & there's usually not a lot of capital growth in the homes.
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