Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'

[Joff]

It was a term the car marketeers would use when a new model came out. Yeah, it was a bit unsophisticated compared to today's hyperbole but as a driver in the 80's and 90's you could see vehicles start to get more responsive. The big leap of course was fuel injection. we went from pretty agricultural carby set-ups in standard cars, or worse, NA diesels (nuf said) to fairly crude ECU and electronically controlled gizmos that really did make the response time from right foot to road shorten up remarkably.

I remember spending countless hours night after night trying to master the art of Webers to make my old Lancer respond and make power. Not more than a few years later you could go buy a new fuel injected Corolla off the shelf that made just as much power and responded when you put you foot down even quicker that my months salary Webers.

Why do I remind the plus 40's of these days?? To ask the simple but perplexing question, WTF happened???

For the last couple years I have seen this response time go south at an alarming rate. I know it's all to do with emissions control and all that crap but seriously??

Why today, well this friggin Ranger of mine must have the slowest response of any car I have driven - ever.... and today it has just pissed me off enough to have a rant. 

And I know I can spend hundreds of dollars on gizmos to fix it but it's a company car and I really have better things to do with my coin 

[GeoffA]

Too many gizmos now between foot and fuel....and everything else....

[noel_w]

Aaahhh
I can still hear the induction roar on my Datto L18 motor with twin 45DCOE Webers. One throat per cylinder. Like you I spent most Saturday mornings making sure they were all true.
My ZD30 when I got it was similar, put the foot down and wait till the next suburb for it to get going.
New Beaudesert exhaust, Tillix and Needle mod and she goes like a rocket now (well a hugely overloaded and underpowered rocket)    Just those mods alone made it so much more responsive and driveable. Can't wait to get the intercooler upgraded and ECU tuned.
But the question remains that the mods I have done have not modified the emission controls and have given it much more oomph. Why couldn't they do this in the factory.

[edz]

You can have your EFI electro crap .. All good while its working then PPFFTTTTTT goes a sensor or a wire corrodes a little bit and gives an incorrect OHM's reading or something and the whole lot becomes an expensive  statue parked on the landscape somewhere waiting for a pimply faced tech guru to empty your wallet to fix it .

[tk421]

Is it the move from the old mechanical throttle cable to fly-by-wire throttles, ecu's and stability control?

Driver's pressed the pedal>go and check the sensors> is there enough fuel? Is there enough air? Temps ok? Are the wheels going to spin? Yes? Ok dial it back a little just in case.  etc

[Joff]

You can have your EFI electro crap .. All good while its working then PPFFTTTTTT goes a sensor or a wire corrodes a little bit and gives an incorrect OHM's reading or something and the whole lot becomes an expensive  statue parked on the landscape somewhere waiting for a pimply faced tech guru to empty your wallet to fix it .

One thing is for sure, on the whole and if you exclude the duds like, well anything from Land Rover, cars are far more reliable today than they were pre EFI, ECU, electrikery despite what some would make-believe 

[Joff]

Is it the move from the old mechanical throttle cable to fly-by-wire throttles, ecu's and stability control?

Driver's pressed the pedal>go and check the sensors> is there enough fuel? Is there enough air? Temps ok? Are the wheels going to spin? Yes? Ok dial it back a little just in case.  etc

I don't think it's fly by wire that slows things down. My FTE in the 105 is fly by wire and it is infinitely quicker than my Ranger.

[rags]

It is also interesting the cycle cars are heading back in the 70s a corolla was powered by a mighty 1100cc before getting and upgrade of 1300cc, today they have a motor of around 1800cc. Back in 1980 I had a 76 Corolla van as my first car and it started my wasting of money on cars. To gain more power I transplanted a celiica 1600 twin cam 2T-G motor and 5 speed box along with many other mods was a great car.
Moving to 2016 and it now appears the car makers are going back to small engines and relying on turbos etc . A new Suzuki Baleno is now powered by a 1000cc turbo motor similar to other makes.
The benefits of the new cars and 4wds out way the disadvantages, gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel.

[SEADOO]

Remeber when ECU's and fuel injection became standard?

All the older blokes saying "never trust that" and so on......

How many now would replace the fuel injection for an old Rochester 4 barrel or an old Holley.......


Nah, fk that. I like my fuel injection.

[SEADOO]

It is also interesting the cycle cars are heading back in the 70s a corolla was powered by a mighty 1100cc before getting and upgrade of 1300cc, today they have a motor of around 1800cc. Back in 1980 I had a 76 Corolla van as my first car and it started my wasting of money on cars. To gain more power I transplanted a celiica 1600 twin cam 2T-G motor and 5 speed box along with many other mods was a great car.
Moving to 2016 and it now appears the car makers are going back to small engines and relying on turbos etc . A new Suzuki Baleno is now powered by a 1000cc turbo motor similar to other makes.
The benefits of the new cars and 4wds out way the disadvantages, gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel.

Very true.

We were looking at upgrading the wife's Getz to a demo Nissan Pulsar SSS last year.

Took it for a bit of a drive, it felt like a wet blanket had been shoved up the exhaust.

The 1991 Nissan Pulsar N/A 2.0 SSS had more balls, my 97 WRX wagon had much bigger balls.

Upon our return, we discovered it's only a 1.4 with a small turbo. It's meant to drive like a 2.0 litre.

They are compensating cubes with little turbo's these days.

[edz]

"  gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel. "
A little mod of the carby to remove the float / needle and seat  fixed that problem for me, back in the day . 

[rotare]

..... and on hot days you'd get fuel vaporisation and the car would stall at the lights and not start.  Then on cold mornings the thing wouldn't start without some choke and some pumping of the pedal, followed with coughing and popping through the carby..... but too much choke for too long and the plugs would foul.

Then there's the setting of the points, cleaning up of the contacts in the dizzy cap, then checking the timing with a timing light.

Ahhh, the good old days - not so good now I think about it   

[Footy Shorts Shane]

"  gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel. "
A little mod of the carby to remove the float / needle and seat  fixed that problem for me, back in the day . 

I had a 750 DP on the Hilux for a while and it was tops  Throttle response was great, no lag, no surging just smooth transition through the different stages of the carb. Fuel consumption was massive Was a great thing to drive.

Until a corrugated road 
Every 5 minutes it'd flood and stall.
Fitted an Edelbrock 650 vac sec, lost a lot of fun  but at least it'll drive down a dirt road now.

[Footy Shorts Shane]

Then there's the setting of the points, cleaning up of the contacts in the dizzy cap, then checking the timing with a timing light.

Ahhh, the good old days - not so good now I think about it 

Bac when mechanics were mechanics

[Spada]

Bac when mechanics were mechanics

and you could sit on the inside of the front guard while you did all that

[MDS69]

Remember when you could get different motors in the same model car and I am not talking about petrol and diesel but the Commodore in the early '80's had a L4, L6 and two version of the V8. Generally they were linked to base model up to the luxury model but these days there is usually only one engine size on offer.

[Humphreythebear]

Modern cars a fat , lazy barstools .....
I have an old valiant , 225 slanty goes really well - but it only weighs 1200kg , i have a HDT , goes like stink weighs 1280kg .

Land Rover ( contrary to the one eyed jealous  dribble posted earlier ! ) is a dead set weapon , the fastest Fat Girl - 2.5t super quiet , super comfy goes anywhere gentlemans club lounge on wheels !!!

[rags]

These super responsive cars probably featured RTS otherwise known as Radial Tuned Suspension

[Footy Shorts Shane]

I have an old valiant , 225 slanty goes really well - ..................., i have a HDT , goes like stink..........

 

[Mallory Black]

 Super Responsive was a name given to a family of engines that Toyota brought out in the mid-eighties.
New materials, lightweight internals (makes them ... responsive)
Some had injection and some had carbys depending on the model
I was working on them at the time and found them better than the ones before especially that dog of a Holden pushrod 4 cyl in the early 80's Coronas
Remember that stupid Button Plan, what a joke
The one I liked best was the Corona with 2.4l multipoint EFI, Supra 5 speed and IRS
For a Corona it was pretty darn good and very tough mechanically

[rags]

[quote author=Mallory Black link=topic=50196.msg864382#msg864382 date=1477904083
I was working on them at the time and found them better than the ones before especially that dog of a Holden pushrod 4 cyl in the early 80's Coronas
Remember that stupid Button Plan, what a joke

[/quote]

A Starfire 4 otherwise known as a Backfire 4
Remember the corona well as the old man bought mum one as it was a Toyota with a Holden motor so he could relent on his allegiance to Holden

[GeoffA]

A Starfire 4 otherwise known as a Backfire 4

....aka Missfire 4

[MDS69]

Modern cars a fat , lazy barstools .....
I have an old valiant , 225 slanty goes really well - but it only weighs 1200kg , i have a HDT , goes like stink weighs 1280kg .

Land Rover ( contrary to the one eyed jealous  dribble posted earlier ! ) is a dead set weapon , the fastest Fat Girl - 2.5t super quiet , super comfy goes anywhere gentlemans club lounge on wheels !!!

Pics of the HDT

[Humphreythebear]

I was trying - file is too big ........
It's red , with flares and stripes , smells like 1980 .
Vallo is poo brown with a vynil roof , smells like a valiant or 1969 depending on how old you are

[kylarama]

80's EFI....  Forgot how bad that junk was.

I recently picked up an 87 XF Fairmont Ghia in reasonable nick to play around with. Plan is (if I choose to keep it) for an injected Windsor or a Turbo Barra. Currently I'm trying to get the EFI crossflow running smoothly, or more to the point idle. Can anyone say vacuum leak!  Probably doesn't help that the rocker cover, sump, rear main, oil cap and dipstick all leak...


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