Aust campers recovery from imports

[jmsaintpierre]

Hi all,

Just wondering if you think that eventually the Australian manufacturers of campers trailers will ever recover from the imports?
I was having a good talk with my local mower shop and he kind of went the unit a little. Now business is booming partly thanks to cheaper alternative.
I simply asked him how he felt about the big hardware stores selling gardening power tools. I as expecting an onslaught of words, but suprise fly, he told me, he loved them.
The reason??? In his words, :" well you see, people will always be attracted to cheaper products and by their promises of being as good as the leading brands, but eventually, they always fail. Which means that they come to my shop to try and fix it as none of the bid hardware offer repairs, or they simply just bin them and buy quality gardening tools from me, usually over rated as they don t want to be caught out again. Not only that, but they usually buy two or three tools.....so, I love the big hardware store selling cheap stuff..
He admitted that it was a bit tough for a while, but eventually it worked out in the end..

So could the same happen to the trailer industry?  I just noticed a few manufactures have gone down recently as could not compete.
Once again, I am not anti import at all, I personally think that the difference in price between imports and local is not that great to justify it. This is my personal view only. If they were half price of a locally made, then I would consider them and think them of good value..
Regards

[Julian Kaye]

 It really depends on what they build. If they stick to the old soft floor/hard floor canvas topped dinosaurs then forget it. The Chinese will churn these out by the gross at half the price. The future of Australian made campers relies on one word - innovation.

[GeoffA]

.......The future of Australian made campers relies on one word - innovation.

....which will be copied as soon as it hits the market....

 

[Shaun99]

The future of the Australian camper trailer industry is not innovation, it is dependant on Aussies buying Australian made campers.

If people to continue to buy imports, then one day all to them will be imports, much like the car industry.

 

[tk421]

The place for Aussie manufacturing to be is in the high-tech value add space, not the raw heavy lift building. Eg design the radar and combat systems in a warship but leave the hull building to China. They a just can't compete on cost of manufacture.

 The mass production space is not where CT guys should be. It should be Design work in Aus, build in China. Locally based manufacture will die or contract severely in the CT space IMO. How much can you innovate a box with a tent bolted to the top? Innovation means more than just whacking on some independent suspension and an air conditioner.  That opens the door for trailer repairers to fix trailers, but not build. My maker has gone under (they were based in Cairns so I wasn't going up there to have stuff fixed anyway) but I go to a local trailer place for any work I can't handle so they're winning.  No reason why they couldn't do the same on imports. They're not complex to fix.

If I was a builder chasing profit, would I want to design and build in Australia or design in Australia and build in China with half the labour costs, or just copy someone else's design at half the cost again?

Don't forget too, that the way Chinese manufacturing works is that you turn up with your plans and they ask do you want the $1000 quality version or the $10,000 quality version?   Some (not all) builders/importers unfortunately are ordering the $1,000 version but selling to us at $10,000.

It's not just a manufacturing issue. China is leaving its industrialisation phase and heading into the services economy, and when that happens, watch out, big disruptions are coming for those companies

[Joff]

Its not really comparable to the garden tool thing.

In my industry we have the same outlook as your mower man but campers are a luxury item and the majority dont get used enough to become problematic. For those that do get a dodgy camper it can have the effect of driving them away from campers all together. Neither of these senarios helps quality manufacturers.

It is only those few who buy a bad camper but wish to continue their camper ways that will go on to replace it with a quality product.

NB, i have deliberately refrained from refering to the good vs bad as aussie vs imports coz frankly there are some deadset rubbish "Aussie" made stuff too.

[BrindleHounds]

The place for Aussie manufacturing to be is in the high-tech value add space, not the raw heavy lift building. Eg design the radar and combat systems in a warship but leave the hull building to China. They a just can't compete on cost of manufacture.

 The mass production space is not where CT guys should be. It should be Design work in Aus, build in China. Locally based manufacture will die or contract severely in the CT space IMO. How much can you innovate a box with a tent bolted to the top? Innovation means more than just whacking on some independent suspension and an air conditioner.  That opens the door for trailer repairers to fix trailers, but not build. My maker has gone under (they were based in Cairns so I wasn't going up there to have stuff fixed anyway) but I go to a local trailer place for any work I can't handle so they're winning.  No reason why they couldn't do the same on imports. They're not complex to fix.

If I was a builder chasing profit, would I want to design and build in Australia or design in Australia and build in China with half the labour costs, or just copy someone else's design at half the cost again?

Don't forget too, that the way Chinese manufacturing works is that you turn up with your plans and they ask do you want the $1000 quality version or the $10,000 quality version?   Some (not all) builders/importers unfortunately are ordering the $1,000 version but selling to us at $10,000.

It's not just a manufacturing issue. China is leaving its industrialisation phase and heading into the services economy, and when that happens, watch out, big disruptions are coming for those companies

Couldn't agree more with this point.

The comments that Aust needs a thriving mass production manufacturing industry is just a myth.

We are not that type of economy.

And it is just simplistic to claim we all need to get behind local manufacturers to keep them alive. This was also the cry in the car industry. The public will not buy a product they don't want (ie large sedans vs medium and small SUVs. soft floor vs hard floor. Or whatever the comparison might be) just because it's built here. Local mass manufacturers need to be building what the public wants, or they will go the way of the car industry.

And on the topic of military manufacturing, don't get me started on spending twice as much on subs or ships just to build them here to keep 1000 jobs...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[edz]

Probably not unless Gov Co go back to the old days of high import tarrif's .

[slydar]

(ooooo, haven't we upset the chinese enough already...?)

but I have to agree - bring the imported one up to even just slightly under the Australian made product and see what changes!

[Paddler Ed]

And on the topic of military manufacturing, don't get me started on spending twice as much on subs or ships just to build them here to keep 1000 jobs...

All you need is the Aussie $ to dive and watch the costs of the imports sky rocket - this happened to the UK post-Brexit vote; the MOD budget got smashed as so much is imported in US$ (not £'s, which would have put the risk on the manufacturer) 15% fall in the value of the £ against the US$ related to an effective cut in the budget of 2% - OK not big numbers as a percentage, but that represents a shortfall of £700milliion as the spending power drops. (the amount a home currency can buy of another currency)

As the Aussie economy moves out of the mining boom, the $ will drop (and has dropped) against the main world currencies - we can all remember parity with the US$ 2 or so years ago - and that will push up import costs as a lot is priced ex-works in US$ (irrespective of source). Hopefully as the import costs are pushed up, the Aussie domestic production can recover and build up a bit.

We can see some products are popular - Drifta DOT's for example - and are able to charge a premium for them.

[Pete79]

Customization.
Let the Chinese pump out 10,000 of the same same.
The Aussie manufacturer should be bending over backwards to make exactly what the customer wants.
You want your trailer 200mm wider then the standard model? No Worries!
You want an extra hatch in that corner? No Worries!
Sides 100mm deeper? Fold to the left instead of the right? Side boxes on stupid angles? Yep! Yep! and Yep!

Then you've justified the huge price difference and the customer has exactly what they want.
Something that just can't be mass produced.

And I agree with pretty much everything tk421 said too.

[GROB]

I agree with pete79 ,we have a full custom built Jimboomba camper , it cost  $28000 but it's our home    , been living in it for 3 years now and still as good as the day we picked it up that was April 2011 . Try living in a cheap import ,guy next to us has a new import and  is now having to replace all his zippers it's not even 12 months old ?

[SimonM]

x2 with regards to offering quality customisation around a solid foundation.

[KingBilly]

In the not too distant future, the imports will dominate the mass produced market forcing local manufacturers to adapt or close.  Look at Lifetsyle and Modcon.  Two excellent local companies who are both manufacturing some of their models overseas to stay competitive in the budget, or lower price range end of the CT market.  The both still make a local premium product but just cannot compete with the budget imports on price.  Difference with both of these companies is that they are manufacturing to their specifications and doing the quality control in house.  Most of the budget importers are buying an off-the-shelf product manufactured to a price point.  I have read that one of the three letter CT companies has realised the error of their ways and are now doing quality control in house in Australia and as such are turning out a better product.

I agree with other comments that the way forward for Aussie CT manufacturers is to be more flexible with design and customisation without charging an arm and leg for doing so.

KB

[wakychapmans]

I find this all very interesting. It makes me think that I've read it all before...

The concept of individual customisation is a good one and I see now that Pioneer Campers are offering a semblance of that. Also Lifestyle listened to customers like Theo who wanted more beds inside for kids or a dinette set-up and responded.

The concept of "imports v's local made" will fade over time. It does in any consumer product market.

Take bicycles... (a market that I'm involved with and know well since the 80's)

it used to be that the only "good" road bikes came from Italy (generalizing here ok) and the "good" mountain bikes were US made.

Brands like Intense, Turner, Santa Cruz and Ellsworth, used to stand proudly on their "made in the USA" heritage... well, currently... previously "MADE IN THE USA" stalwarts like Intense, Santa Cruz, Turner and Ellsworth are selling China made carbon frames now.

anyway... their selling features used to be things like suspension performance (cutting edge designs), quality of finish and the immortal "made in the USA" sticker on the frame.

Previously, I subscribed to this thinking too.

then I rode an Ibis Mojo. carbon. And made, with almost every single other carbon bicycle frame... in China. Oh lordy... that bike rode soooooo nice. it made me rethink my perception of where a bike is made, v's the manufacturer's quality controls and design ability. (social and human rights issues notwithstanding)

I mean, I can get online to Alibaba right now and find a carbon bicycle frame with "reasonably" well designed rear suspension design (copied off a more mainstream design) for around US$450... but a brand name frame will set me back $2k

The difference is what you don't see. The quality of the carbon weave itself, the quantity of resin used, the pressure used to form the frame and so on.

The point I'm making, is that with any product, you can go to China (for any product) and ask for "same but cheaper"... or you can give them a very detailed list of specifications and QC standards to adhere to... and they will give you a price.

I think, to date, a larger % of trailer imports may have been following the first option... but as time goes on, some of them will switch to the second method. And once they do this, their pricing will increase (or their margins will decrease). It may be only slightly... but it will increase.

The better and more specific your specs... the better the end product. And the more it will cost. Even from China.

To be honest... I'm utterly dumbfounded that no-one has straight up copied a Tvan out of China yet.

[edz]

Not exactly chinese but you can build your own version .http://www.diycamper.com.au/body/

[wakychapmans]

Not exactly chinese but you can build your own version .http://www.diycamper.com.au/body/

I've spent a lot of time going over that site for ideas.

And Rockman's build here too.

[Peeb]

This was in Fairfax today. Patriot Campers were featured. Automation and higher end of the market was the message. I think Nick at Mountain Trail said something similar to me at one the shows recently.

http://www.theage.com.au/small-business/resources/third-generation-manufacturing-shows-australia-still-in-the-game-20160907-grakd3.html

[Bird]

Just wondering if you think that eventually the Australian manufacturers of campers trailers will ever recover from the imports

No.

[Rumpig]

I reckon the true complete Aussie manufacturers will struggle...pretty hard for them to compete when they have local opposition companies hiring their product, so they can then completely pull it apart to copy how it's made. All the innovation in the world won't help you if people can just come along and copy it and get it made overseas cheaper.
I guess the question then becomes... If those local companies the others are copying starts getting stuff made overseas to compete with those who copy it, is it still a "local" company?

[GeoffA]

....I have read that one of the three letter CT companies has realised the error of their ways and are now doing quality control in house in Australia and as such are turning out a better product.

The bloke over the road's son recently bought one. Had a brief look on the weekend. What I saw seemed pretty good.

 

[wakychapmans]

I guess the question then becomes... If those local companies the others are copying starts getting stuff made overseas to compete with those who copy it, is it still a "local" company?

I guess the questions would be:

a) are they having them made to their own designs, specifications and quality control expectations. (to suit Australian conditions and customers)

and b) are they doing all the design and R & D locally to their own original designs.

as I said before... it's dead easy for anyone to jump online and import "stuff" from China. And a large percentage of it will be copied from an original design that someone invested a lot of time and $$$$ into developing. A large percentage of it will probably be considerably lower quality than the original design too. Don't be confusing "looks the same" with "is the same".

Example... a 3 second search for "hard floor camper trailer" got me this... http://tinyurl.com/gsuckyw

that's just one quick search for generic campers. But a copy, made to a price, is not the same as well known Australian company having their own design manufactured overseas to their own specifications.

I'm not "anti imports" at all. But I'd prefer to know who at least designed my gear... and what standards they had it manufactured to.


Wayne

[Lori]

In the not too distant future, the imports will dominate the mass produced market forcing local manufacturers to adapt or close.  Look at Lifetsyle and Modcon.  Two excellent local companies who are both manufacturing some of their models overseas to stay competitive in the budget, or lower price range end of the CT market.  The both still make a local premium product but just cannot compete with the budget imports on price.  Difference with both of these companies is that they are manufacturing to their specifications and doing the quality control in house.  Most of the budget importers are buying an off-the-shelf product manufactured to a price point.  I have read that one of the three letter CT companies has realised the error of their ways and are now doing quality control in house in Australia and as such are turning out a better product.

I agree with other comments that the way forward for Aussie CT manufacturers is to be more flexible with design and customisation without charging an arm and leg for doing so.

KB

Lifestyle no longer sell the cheaper import campers, I think they stopped doing them a few years ago. I just checked their website and it seems that they no longer make camper trailers at all, only cross overs.

[Bullant4x4]

I picked up my Chinese camper (MDC) on Mon 22 Aug. Took it to the Grampains and it ihas been up in the backyard, ever since (14 days). All I got was a teaspoon of water in so far, in all the rain we had. Wishing it would stop raining so I can pack it up.

Had problems with the hot water unit but they just replaced it.

I think the quality is there at the higher end Chinese mark now that for the family man they will go the cheaper option. Local manufactures will struggle and may go under, which is a shame.

One Aussie seller told me MDC is only making $1000 on their Cape York Edition? I said he maybe making $1000 per camper but you are losing $3000 each time he sells one. Is it not better to make a sale and get $1000 than lose a sale and make $0? You may make $3000 every sale but you have to sell to make.

I'm glad Im not in the trailer business 

It is what it is and they have warranty. I'm happy and I'm sure it will continue after the warranty runs out.

[McGirr]

Clever manufacturers will survive against the competition in the market.

If I was entering the market as a manufacturer I would buy an oppositions product and break it down and see how I could make it cheaper to get my name out there. Yes quality would be still there.

This has been going on for years. If we only had Australian manufacturers we would be paying exorbitant prices but competition has made the market more competative for the consumer.

Mark